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05:52
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Q: Why has Stack Overflow been publicly silent about race issues?

MarkWith a diverse audience and a corporate culture that makes claims such as “Diverse teams build better products.” Why has Stack Overflow not publicly shown support for the Black Lives Matter movement? As a programmer and long time user I’m surprised, and disappointed by the silence. The Stack Over...

Zoe
Zoe
"Why has StackOverflow not publicly shown support for the Black Lives Matter movement?" - they have, on Twitter. twitter.com/StackOverflow/status/1267149866809143296?s=19
Prior efforts to inject politics into SO have not gone well
@Zoe an empty statement at it's best.
Zoe
Zoe
@Mark The same can be said about other statements as well. Lots of companies feel they need to make statements, but far from all make actual contributions to the current situation.
05:52
The Stack Overflow Developer survey clearly shows people of color are underrepresented in our industries. We need to take action and start to fix this. You really expect Stack Overflow to be able to fix this? How?
I don't want to sound insensitive or rude but I don't know about all this with companies supporting campaign. What are people going to think, all Stack exchange members support the campaign? All staff support it? Or all of management of the company? In my opinion when companies support campaigns I see that as a cheap way to get attention. As if they are riding a wave to get some "reflected glory" of something that in real life is a horrible thing. EDIT: but personally I support the campaign, just don't fancy companies doing it.
@rene yes, this was years ago. Fair enough, it probably did not go well. But in there own words: "We don't know if or when there will be another occasion that compels us to use our company voice to take a stance on something that's happening in the world." I would hope this issue would be something they would want to use there voice for.
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica I dont expect them to fix this. I expect us to fix this.
@Andreas, I am a firm believer of the separation of religion,politics from corporate politics. But I don't believe in sitting silent when peoples human rights are being ignored. This is not about glory, it's about finding solutions and fixing a broken system.]
Start paying more taxes, Mark. That's what you can start doing today.
Zoe
Zoe
@Mark You should be talking and/or sending messages (not necessarily literal messages, but the type of message a protest sends) to politicians, not a group of programmers.
You asked, "Why has StackOverflow not made a public statement that supports the Black Lives Matter movement?". When presented with a public statement that was made, you call it "an empty statement at it's best". Perhaps you should clarify exactly the statement you expect to see from an online programming question/answer forum. Then you ask, "What will StackOverflow do to help end racism and promote diversity, inclusion and equality in our industry?", but follow that up with "I don't expect them to fix this. I expect us to fix this." Somehow this question feels as empty as the tweet.
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05:52
I'm still confused as to what, specifically, you want to happen here. Can you make a specific proposal?
Because the last time the got involved in politics it was a major disaster from a community building perspective.
@Mark sure, you want to talk about a broken system. It's spelled USA. It really isn't harder than that. If you want to fix something then do so. I'm a firm believe that things can't be fixed "over the internet". You need to be more engaged in politics and have a society that is more accepting of changes such as lowering the violence by removing weapons. Less weapons means less violence. I understand that police who every day are at risk of being shot use more violence to protect themselves but that does not mean I agree with what they did, I'm just saying I see the issue.
Please note that the code of conduct gives us all the tools to "fix" this on this site, if it isn't already. It doesn't hurt if that practice is extended to your real life.
Feel free to start a discussion over in the meta room if you want one.
The sad thing about this entire post is that people are being violated all the time. I don't mean any disrespect, but why this case? Why not the girl that got sentenced to death for fighting off her attacker in some other country? Why not the native in a jungle that got killed for logging rights?
@Scratte you are right.This does happen all of the time and they are all equally horrible. There have been movements before, but they did not have the same voice. My only intention is to help spread this voice so change will actually come - not just resolve to empty promises.
@Zoe Somehow it seems that's trying to make my point invalid. Imagine all the houses on fire but all the attention going to only one of them.
@Scratte at the end of the day all of these issues matter. But we have the momentum to actually change something. Are you actually saying because there are other issues, you would rather not support anything?
I don't understand why people expect companies to make some of "statement" about things? What happened is of course tragic but SO and company isn't going to make a difference at the end of the day no matter how many statements they might make.
@Dave it's not about just a statement. It's about making an effort to make change happen. I don't have the answer. I don't know what resources SO has. But more than likely they have more resources than any one of us developers. The ball is in their court to find ways to help build a better community.
nbk
nbk
05:52
Black lives doesn't matter more than other lives, so why should anyone support it. What i am missing in this is, the hole video from all 4 cops around the person at the ground which is fixated. the short video sequence tells us nothing about the violence, that must have occurred to end in such a holding down. As slong as there are is not muich information, a more or minus objective position is impossible.
Thank you for your question about this and bringing up this very important topic. We have been taking the time to deliberate on what we can do to back up our words with actions. To that effect, we are having important internal discussions with our employee-created affinity groups - particularly our Black and Brown Affinity Group (BnB) - in order to have intentional, impactful, and sustained actions that move us toward helping to end racism and promote diversity, inclusion and equality in our industry. (1/2)
BnB made short and longer term recommendations to our Senior Leadership Team yesterday and our action plan will stem largely from the proposal laid out by the group. This is a very important issue to us, and one that we’re committed to taking on, which is why we’re taking a bit of time to listen, educate ourselves, and work to make a lasting impact to the movement, both internally as a company and externally as a community. You can expect to hear more details on how we will take a stronger stance later this week. (2/2)
@Mark No, that is not what I'm saying. If there's momentum, then it should be used. But I don't see how a small international company can really make a change though. It needs to come from the people and government local to the problem. How can someone from Berlin help with this? Or from Mogadishu? Perhaps their house is on fire too.
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What @Scratte says. With such homicides, anyone even remotely moral would consider them wrong, and there does not seem to be much point in explicit 'statements of solidarity'. In the specific case that initiated the current unrest, can the US Judiciary deal with it and, if not, the US citizens with a vote? I cannot pursue US legal actions or vote executives out of office.
@Scratte because a global voice and protest matter too. Global awareness brings more pressure to corporations and political figures. I hope you don't think these issues stop at some man-made border!?! There are many houses on fire. We need to put them all out. The problem with systemic racism is the system itself. A vote will not fix this. The USA needs radical reform. The Demo/Repo party will not be able to fix these issues. I am from Canada. We have our own issues that mirror those of the US. The US is a global leader. When 1 domino falls, they all fall. No one can do this alone.
@SaraChipps thank you for responding. I am happy this question was re-opened because I believe it is the type of question that should not be silenced. It was honest, straight-forward and reasonable to ask at this moment.
@MartinJames because a global voice and protest matter too. Global awareness brings more pressure to corporations and political figures. I hope you don't think these issues stop at some man-made border!?! There are many houses on fire. We need to put them all out. The problem with systemic racism is the system itself. A vote will not fix this. The USA needs radical reform. The Demo/Repo party will not be able to fix these issues. I am from Canada. We have our own issues that mirror those of the US. The US is a global leader. When 1 domino falls, they all fall. No one can do this alone
@Machavity "Prior efforts to inject politics into SO have not gone well" so what? Try again. SO will not loose users for supporting a just cause. Some may speak out, but few will leave. For those who would leave...good. This community would be better off without them.
@RufusL A real public statement would be across their main channels of communications (from their response, they are working on taking action with BnB :) ). Like SO website, or their blog. If they put a statement out on Twitter, than I expect to see it across all social media channels. As far as a forum goes, I expect us to put pressure on the corporate entity to help promote change. I don't expect them to fix this. I expect all of us to fix this. That means me, you, the other users, the corporation and anyone else who thinks this is not their problem. This question is not empty. (1/2).
@Mark This community would be better off without them. Really? Think about what you are saying. You mean we have to support the black lives matter and if we don't then those who don't are less of programmers? I agree with the comments that there is always another campaign so why this one? I mean next week there is the "crazy cat lady matters" campaign. Are we better off without those who don't support that too? What happens when SO/SE does not support a campaign because it's too small/haven't noticed, in the eyes of everyone else we are against that campaign then.
05:52
I don't know what the 'Black Lives Matter' movement is. The name means little to me, being the equivalent name to the '2+2=4' movement and seemingly chosen to encourage the fallacy that, if you do not support the effort, then you are claiming that black lives do not matter, (which is utterly false). I am not willing to provide active support to a 'movement' I have not researched.
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@Andreas I said "For those who leave...good. The community would be better off without them." I did not say you had to support. So yes, for those who could take so much offense to SO(or any entity) taking a stand in a real, meaningful cause that they would choose to leave SO, then yes. the community is better off without them. If SO chooses not to support, which they already answered they do, that would be their opinion. Your loosing sight of the question. I asked why they did not show support. I never said anyone had to do anything. Never once did I make any type of threat.
@MartinJames then do a little research. It's a good movement and we should support it. But to be blunt, I did not ask you to personally support this. This is a comment section, I will never change anyone's mind here - was never trying to. You are entitled to your opinion. I did ask about the company (in a way that I thought would get attention) about why they did not support it. I asked because I believe when companies with large, diverse base of users make statements, people hear them.
@nbk of course they do. Read up on the movement before having an opinion. Nobody is saying other do not matter. As another user already pointed out: cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/628613146013335553/…
@Mark you are confusing different interests in to one. You are forcing one interest down the throat of another (and other people). I don't join the local bowling club and ask them to support the airfield at the other side of town. If you have an interest in something then join the community it has not every other and try to mix it all in to one.
Please don’t ruin Stack Exchange by bringing politics into the community. If any commentary on BLM is for or against a political party, I will be very sad, this great community has started to become intolerable. If you were going to speak out, last week should have been it, the motivation behind a week and half late response is obvious. Twitter and Facebook both are horrible due to their political statements in recent years
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I asked why a company, that I personally respect, had not shown support for a human rights movement, not a bowling league. I did not force anything on anybody at any point. If you disagree, please point out where I made any statement which said you had to agree. Also, if I join a bowling club and want the club to support some shit on the other side of town I would ask, without hesitation. But are you really comparing peoples lives to bowling and airplanes? What is wrong with you? That is incredibly insensitive.
06:09
Why would it be necessary to show support for human rights? Is that not a given? Self-evident?
You are adding emotions that has nothing to do in this discussion. If you really want to make a change then heed my advice get ride of all the guns anything else is just a fasade.
And that is how I feel about BLM. It will make no difference because you have not fixed the problem. It's like "help us get more towels to the flooded area". Well... It won't matter. As I said earlier I support the campaign but the solution is not the campaign itself. Other steps has to be taken before anything good happens. That is the truth.
Why do every other Americans need an arsenal of weapons that even some other states don't have?
07:13
@Mark I do not live in the US, so this problem is not local to me. I'm looking at it from the outside where I see a lot of houses on fire. So when Stack Overflow makes a statement about "one house", what does that mean for their support or opinion about all the other houses? Do they matter less because they were not mentioned? It's not straight forward. It's politics.
07:26
When I log into Stack Overflow, I am anonymous, in a sense that nobody knows my color, religion, gender, wealth or any other thing that would make others in the real world favour or discriminate against me. The only thing that matters here is the quality of my contributions. I think we already all matter here, and we are already all equal here. Perhaps that is the message that Stack Overflow should make, instead of pointing or focusing on "one house".
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07:42
Well spoken @Scratte I'm not American either so I agree with you. This page is international and unrelated to skin colors. Had this page been named "The American SO" then those who are not American know they are "outsiders" but without knowing facts, I would guess there are more non American than American here.
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