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12:05 AM
@cigien there is a live mod that tracks the room, @ZoestandswithUkraine :) I also work on bringing SpotDetector back from the dead with reporting of potentially bad suggested reviews already finished and tested
besides, it's way more fun this way provided the handling mods don't mind, which they seem not to
plus it increases visibility of bad review patterns as reports allow handlers to cross-reference instead of individually handing flags
plus the reporter usually provides a source for plagiarism
as for keeping decorum around bad reviewers, I, frankly, do not understand why should we
It's not like bad reviewers are paraded on meta :) which would be crossing the line
* 2 mods
 
One live mod, one zombie mod
you decide which is which
 
It also serves for calling out bad judgement calls of reporters themselves
@RyanM depends on where ya'll start your day, I guess :)
and another besides, it's not like a plagiarism of a wiki report puts a black mark on the user. Many do it in good faith (or approve) without knowing the rule
* about fun - it's not reporting that's fun, it's that most of the time those edits come packaged with hilarious summaries or bodies :)
oops, wrong report type
tag wiki plagiarism is usually boring
 
12:26 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine My concern here is that it's public shaming of individual users for no particular reason that I can see. Of course, simply reporting a bad review is indirectly shaming, but take the latest report Nick posted above, and the resulting conversation between y'all. If I was that user, I would be, a little upset about that. I wouldn't mind so much if it was a conversation in a random chat room, but such conversations being sanctioned by site mods makes it worse IMO.
I do agree that these conversations are particularly bad on Meta, but they're not great in here either, and if more than a dozen users visited here, it might already have been an issue. Sorry for being a bummer, I can certainly see how it's nice to discuss these things with each other, and sure, some reviews can be hilarious :) But take SOCVR, which has pretty strict rules about fun that involves SO users not in the room, or even discussing users at all.
Of course, this is all a moot point if there's some concrete reason that reporting publicly is good, I just don't entirely see what that reason is, and why flags don't suffice.
 
I really do not see it as public shaming, @cigien. And I was genuinely surprised [re: conversation]
happy to uphold not discussing users, though, that only came up because it was particularly unexpected to me
 
I mean, I don't think either of y'all meant any malice whatsoever, but from the POV of the user you're discussing ... I'm not so sure. I'm assuming they're an active reviewer, and reviewing in good faith, and the conversation above comes across (IMO) as being more negative than necessary.
 
sure, @cigien, that's ok by me, however, that's no reason to not report
and easily solved by making it a rule
 
I agree with cigien in general here. Personally, and perhaps similarly, I'd prefer discussion about reviews be limited to the review action/content and not about the users involved.
 
@HenryEcker I concur
A possible exception might be pointing out a series of additional bad reviews to handle, but even that might be better as a flag?
Input welcome.
 
12:33 AM
it is limited, @HenryEcker, and I agree with that too - but it seems to be that the initial problem presented was with reporting, not the single instance of the discussion
to which I agree that it should be a rule here as pointed out. Not reporting? I am inclined to say no, it should not be a rule
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Shall I remove the discussion in question? I can send it to either public or private trash, at your preference.
Well, you could also do the former yourself, now :-)
 
yay, test drive!
 
also the interface to do this without userscripts is...suboptimal.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine That was intentional on my part, sorry about that. It seems to me that the discussion of users as a result of reporting bad reviews was something that could be avoided entirely by not reporting things (that could be reported via a flag). My concern is really only the discussion of users, and I should have phrased it that way.
It felt like it would come across a bit strong if I just said "I don't think we should discuss users in here." Perhaps I overthought that, given the general agreement with the sentiment. Looks like y'all have plans already :)
 
12:37 AM
that's throwing a baby out with the water, @cigien :)
since there are 2 mods, and I am now an RO, it's easy to handle if it ever comes up again
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Yes, that's fair :)
 
@cigien I think that wording would actually make me not take the defensive stance :)
 
Ah, I'll keep that in mind. I'm not sure that would work with everyone though, people can get defensive about that.
 
I, in general, tend to really not like "it has potential for abuse/misuse/mishandle, therefore it should be scrapped" arguments, but very receptive of "it was not ok, let's handle it" :)
 
I think I'd personally suggest a similar-ish policy to SOCVR: focus on the review, not the user. Although it's a bit different, because the moderator handling it will inevitably try to find more bad reviews, so having more of them is helpful...that might be a case where a message could just say "additional reviews linked in a flag" or something
^ this is thinking out loud, not policy, FYI
 
12:44 AM
happy to just add it to the wiki if @ZoestandswithUkraine does not mind (which I highly doubt they do)
oh, well
^ just a very odd edit
expected: rejected (plagiarism)
actual: rejected (1 approver, 2 rejectors)
link: https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/31785204 [handled]
 
Always nice to see that I don't need to do anything on a bad review:
Although uh, in this case it was the system auto-suspending them for failing two suggested-edit audits...
 
btw, what anonymizes users on your screenshots, a userscript?
 
...a suspension that ends on Oct 14, 2023 at 19:42. Wow, that's a determined bad reviewer.
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Yeah, one of Sam's many.
 
ah, I should've guessed :)
not sure what to do about this one:
I guess it's an improvement over nothing, but... ugh, could've added a sentence or two
 
1:01 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine yeah, it's fine... More would be better, but...
Doesn't appear copied, but also reads like marketing fluff
 
ah, I've seen wikis that read the heck like marketing but contain no plagiarised content
it's professional deformation, I guess - at some point you start to write everything like a marketing text
I don't see any sources - either that's extremely subtle, or it is genuine
I am not sure it is a very useful wiki either, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
heck, I think I am going to approve, better than nothing, I guess
 
1:20 AM
Coincidentally, my exact thoughts after seeing the edit.
Edit contents: random formatting changes
 
@RyanM is the summary still loading? :)
 
...maybe that was a case for the "delete" option, actually.
 
> Best regards with all love
awww
@RyanM you monster, how can you delete such cuteness? :) [joking aside, yeah...]
 
edit changes: "I'm using the code below but I can not." -> "I'm using the code below but It is erroring out."
 
Expected: Reject, markdown-ifies the output of a command
Actual: approved; 2 approvers, 1 rejector
Link: https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/31795209 [handled]
 
1:29 AM
lol
someone took updating to tables to heart
what is more surprising is two approvers
expected: rejected (no improvement, too minor, does not fix other issues - see edit)
actual: rejected (1 approver, 1 rejector)
link: https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/31823039
> Edit summary: You Added Wrong Its .\gradlew singingReport For "Window" and gradlew SinginReport For "Linux"
 
lmao
neither of those are remotely correct.
 
^ have you ever heard of a popular OS, Window? I heard it's faster than Windows
do take time to appricate the masterful anonymization in the screenshot!
actually... it might not be funny
 
Edit contents: just boldfaces the entire thing.
 
well, it does show intent better
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine hmm?
 
1:39 AM
am I the only one, or does it look like VBA questions are asked by a hive mind then edited by an AI that masquerades as the venerable anonymous?
@RyanM I am not sure how relevant those are, but I can definitely read all characters in those hashes
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine They're...not actually worth protecting. You can't distribute an app signed with a debug keystore on any reputable app store (at the very least, not on the Play Store), because that's never what you want.
 
@RyanM all cool then, TIL
sneaky, sneaky editor changing the link to their fork of the repository:
> Edit summary: Add cody highlighting
^ didn't know Cody needed to be highlighted, but O.K.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine hmmmm, I think that might be legit, but I'm having difficulty proving it
 
prrrr, override my rejection, please, I found it
expected: approved (the new link is actually the maintainer fork)
actual: rejected (2 rejectors)
link: https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/31754118 [handled]
^ yes, it is a self-report :)
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine done
suspending both reviewers now...
...just kidding.
that was a tricky one.
thanks for the follow-up :-)
 
1:55 AM
glad you pinged - shame on me :)
btw, how did you come up to a conclusion it's legit?
 
github.com/neo4j-contrib looked very official
either it was, or someone put a lot of effort into faking it
and the link to the maintainer from the old one was a dead link
 
facepalms onto the desk
should've open the org
> Edit summary: corrected spelling
^ yes, thanks, I guess, but what about the rest of the post?
source will be presented shortly
ah, no, to hell with it, I am not editing that: stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/31819847
just appreciate the focus of the editor
speaking of the earlier 3Ds wiki, no, it's really legit, they even added an excerpt: stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/31789399
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Yeah, I'm just going to dupe that mess.
 
I tried to fix it, but by the point of "enter code here" in the middle of the code, it felt like too much
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine oh, I missed that part
I don't understand how people look at posts like that and think "yeah, this is what I wanted this to look like"
 
2:04 AM
See? :) I missed that too initially
@RyanM that's called "I don't care, my app is crashing" :)
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine *crushing
"and also I can't be bothered to spend 10 seconds searching for that extremely common error message"
I've never even used Firebase and I understand the problem and recognized it as common :-p
 
@RyanM that was intentional :) as in a car crash
I guess it also crushes, but I doubt that's from embarrassment
Damn the mobile keyboard, damn it to hell
> I'm already edited.
oh, gosh
> Edit summary: I HAVE SOLVE THE PROBLEM
actually, needs to be seen as is:
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine a m a z i n g. I expected at least a solution.
 
truly amazing, it literally adds "( SOLVED )" and n o t h i n g else
I mean... the heck?
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine * ( SOLVE )
you keep giving people too much credit for their grammar.
 
2:14 AM
yikes, that was my internal autocorrect speaking
on an off-note, that post also has a cool username in a comment under it (nothing bad, literally a nice idea)
 
Heh.
My favorite Stack Exchange username remains "OH GOD SPIDERS"
 
spiders?
 
I have a contender for you:
> oh god plzzz
^ no, really, it exists
> oh GOSH oh HECK
^ also, apparently, exists
> wanttogoshreddingeveryday
^ oh, my, it's a rabbit hole...
I understand we are not supposed to discuss users, so I'll try to keep it anonymous: there is, apparently, a crusader that took it upon themselves to fix all the instances of mentioning Flutter in titles. And nothing else. You have to admire the dedication
ok... the below is, apparently, plagiarism (one vote), but I can't find the source:
I guess this, but I think the reviewer undersampled
as "database-restore is an operation" is the only thing matching, and I am inclined to think it's not representative
oh, look, another one snoozed on the keyboard:
> Edit summary: askdljhaskdjhaskdjhasd
 
2:31 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine and not even that: "A database restore is an operation" is the quote
 
@RyanM yeah, 'tis the only remote connection I found
tried about 10 samples to no avail
I wish plagiarism rejections had a field for source...
 
...am I breaking my own proposed rule now?
 
poof
 
[proceeds to write out a yellow card for both of us]
^ mine's overdue :)
another snoozer:
> Edit summary: marsazazazdzz
 
I am that close to issuing myself a red card :)
ok, the suggestor's fair game. I would actually wouch for the editor
I did not see any sources either
there are several matches with google.com/…
but it's waaaay undersampled
I dunno, I am inclined to approve
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine yeah, for entirely different frameworks.
 
yeah, I really tried - there seems to be no plagiarism
 
thanks. handled.
 
I have no idea why there is a copyright rejection vote on it
speaking of... since when trying to submit a review that's already handled by a mod just silently discards your review into a garbage bin?
with no error message?
 
2:46 AM
take out "by a mod" and it's done that for ages
 
I guess I just noticed then
quite counter-intuitive
 
it doesn't generally happen in the queues, because the task is "checked out" to you for a bit when you receive it, so that way it doesn't get ninja'd out from under you.
I think there might be some thing where it counts reviews done very close together also in certain situations? not certain, though, don't quote me on that.
 
well, it couldn't count mine since it obviously came after yours :) but it's bizarre that it just succeeds with no history entry - just goes "poof"
 
Also there's a non-zero chance that could just be a race condition when it does count them.
@OlegValteriswithUkraine think of it as getting the opportunity to cast an extra review vote ;-)
 
yay? :)
ok... answer me this, please, what do you expect the edit body to be with this summary?
> Edit summary: Corrected spelling
 
2:52 AM
Ooooh...hmm, tricky one. I'm guessing it changes correctly spelled words to be wrong, and maybe adds some questionable formatting?
 
Wrong! drum roll...
> Thanks guys :-)
^ and no, the edit only adds one word, guess which one :)
 
Too late, I peeked.
You left out the best part, though.
> The editor has indicated that this is a significant edit that improves and/or resolves problems with the closed question. Approving this edit may send it to the Reopen votes queue.
 
I... actually missed that part. Oh, gosh
no, really, I sometimes think that some suggestors just like to entertain reviewers
I can't possibly imagine dropping by on a post with 204 score and thinking "what it really needs, is "guys :-)"!
 
oh good, it's anonymous at least.
 
yeah
> Edit summary: format sucks
^ well, thanks for letting us know
^ your format sucks too, btw
 
3:01 AM
hmmm, I got serially downvoted again?
 
seems to be reversed just now
twice in 2 days, yeah
 
Yeah, that's how I noticed, honestly.
@OlegValteriswithUkraine different people, surprisingly!
 
and this is why mods can send custom flags, since it'd probably be a conflict of interest to suspend them myself ;-)
of course, revenge downvoting a moderator is still a particularly stupid plan.
 
you have to admire the courage it takes, though :)
s/courage/stupidity/, but that's an implementation detail
 
3:08 AM
the two are frequently fungible.
 
if anyone comes across this - I've sent it to Burnination HQ for now, as I am not sure what Laurel and Braiam agreed on regarding the tag: stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/31797432
 
oh, yeah, that...I lost track of what was going on there. cc @Zoe for your attention since you're familiar with that ^
@OlegValteriswithUkraine I'm...unsure which of those is worse.
neither is readable.
 
@RyanM "moooom, please handle this oopsy!", said twe two reviewers in two rooms :)
 
two rooms?
 
@RyanM and it got an approve vote...
 
3:12 AM
also I'm older than Zoe, so if she's my mom, I have questions about causality.
 
in Burnination HQ, 8 mins ago, by Oleg Valter is with Ukraine
https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/31797432 cc @ZoestandswithUkraine
 
oh, ha.
 
I was just joking about the situation that we both thought a ping is needed :)
 
Great minds think alike? ;-)
 
flattering enough, let's agree on that explanation :)
> Edit summary: Just to make it more clear
edit, part 1:
> Edit: Just to make it more clear
edit, part 2 needs to be witnessed: stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/31728086
> Edit summary: title typo
^ sure, but the rest of the post, please, ffs
 
3:17 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Wow, that's...a lot of rambling that I think might contain a useful point somewhere in it, but uh.
 
and also a bit insulting:
> i dont know how hive database work insid android because im a newb
^ I wonder how the author would feel were the edit applied :)
 
yeah I mean that part would obviously have to go.
that has the teeeeeeny problem that it's not remotely true.
 
wut?
how on earth...
so... back to the edit with a typo fix, it needs to be observed in all its glory:
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine it doesn't even fix the typo correctly!
and here I was about to stop at 40 reviews. 42 it is, then :-)
 
@RyanM which is the best thing about it :)
how 'bout #43?
expected: rejected (plagiarism)
actual: pending (1 approver, 1 rejector)
link: https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/31732082 [disregard, this was posted in error]
> Edit summary: i believe that developer-console is not unique for chrome
^ thanks, except GDC is a term
 
3:36 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Now I think you're undersampling. Looks fine to me.
 
@RyanM oh, it's two-fold :)
here we go:
> The Foundry security model encompasses both authentication and authorization. Authentication verifies the identity of a user, while authorization grants access based on a user’s attributes and permissions.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine that tag needs to be lit on fire.
 
def
and this is the second sentence (well, the first):
> Palantir Foundry was designed and built with platform security as a core principle
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine where's that from, though?
 
@RyanM from that page :)
It is just split in 2 chunks
 
3:38 AM
No, that page says:
> The Foundry platform has security as a core development philosophy
 
getting warmer!
ah, you mean the "built with platform security as a core principle"
 
I mean, they definitely paraphrased some content from there, but it's not copied.
I'd delete the first sentence for being promotional fluff and approve it.
 
For the second sentence, source:
> The Foundry security model encompasses both authentication and authorization. Authentication verifies the identity of a user, while authorization grants access based on a user’s attributes and permissions.
 
I definitely seen the first one too
 
3:41 AM
Edit text:
> The Foundry Security model encompasses both authentication and authorization for applications, components, and datasets within the Palantir Foundry platform.
 
a sec, then consider me proven wrong :)
 
sure. I'll go for a nice round 44 reviews, since I'll review this either way based on your findings.
 
Hopefully no one will post on Meta about my reviewing antics ;-)
 
scratch the above report
 
3:45 AM
Shall I go ahead and approve?
 
seems like after seeing the full sentence copied I read the "The Foundry platform has security as a core development philosophy" as "Palantir Foundry was designed and built with platform security as a core principle". wow
It is reworded, I guess
so yeah, ok?
I have 8 more tries for you :)
 
Handled
 
thnaks!
ok, this deserves an honorary mention (not the edit, just the image):
wut?!
^ no, this one's even better
 
...wow.
How did they even find the button to do that? It's not easy to find.
 
amazing, right?
 
3:51 AM
Some people are really dedicated to typing questions into any available text box, I guess.
Okay, 45. Now I'm going to do other things. For real.
 
btw, you might actually want to take a look at the link while in the side-by-side mode :)
las one, this time I am sure:
 
is...that spam?
doesn't seem to work for me.
 
expected: rejected (plagiarism)
actual: pending (1 approver, 1 rejector)
link: https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/31769124
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine also unnecessary use of code formatting for the project name.
 
@RyanM now look at the markdown source :) I am not sure what this edit was supposed to be, actually
 
3:57 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine there are many ways to write an IP address
 
I mean, what are the chances of encountering one such?
 
in such an edit
What I meant is that the edit is quite a unicorn
 
Yeah....I dunno, it's incoherent enough that it might have just been garbage.
 
I am not even sure what it was supposed to be - spam? question?
 
4:00 AM
Especially when the link doesn't work.
 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
no, sorry, but I have to mention this too:
^ no, really, why would anyone think "bluebird" refers to To Mock a Mockingbird??
> Edit summary: Trying to help 😅
> Edit summary: Your Answer wasn't clear enough for beginners and had some grammatical erros too, so I made changes so that it'll be easy for anybody to solve their more efficiently.
> Edit summary: the beginning does not help, and the question must be thickly marked and Images are now visible
phew, outta votes finally
and to close off the day, another plagiarism:
expected: rejected (plagiarism)
actual: rejected (1 approver, 1 rejector)
link: https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/31761966
@OlegValteriswithUkraine 2 approvers, 1 rejector - learn to count...
 
5:14 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine I don't see why you rejected it. It's useful to know what it doesn't refer to. In fact, we probably need more: it doesn't refer to blackbird (the bird), nor does it refer to the bird (rude gesture), nor does it refer to koalas (who are not birds), nor to the principality of Andorra (which is a country state).
Just really clarify what it is not.
 
lol
come to think of it, we missed the most important distinction!
it should not be used to refer to "To Kill a Mockingbird" by Harper Lee, just to be sure
 
5:46 AM
@RyanM Ah yes, it was 2047...
Right before the first great time war
@RyanM Not touching that anymore
 
 
4 hours later…
9:18 AM
@NickstandswithUkraine This isn't all plagiarized. When I reviewed I checked two different sentences from it: "Conflicts are considered the standard case" and "Partial clone changes can readily be sent" - Google Search
 
 
2 hours later…
11:46 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine When I initially saw that one I thought it said "To Kill a Mockingbird" and was about to reject it outright before I read it properly, decided I didn't feel like researching that to see if it was reasonable, and then skipped :-p
 
@StephenOstermiller That doesn't make the edit okay
The amount it does copy remains significant, and fully unattributed
The first sentence is paraphrased. The rest of that paragraph is blatant copy-pasta. The bullet points are intermittent copies, with parts that are clearly just restructured sentences
And that is a weak argument in other cases, but not when it's clear the content was just ripped from another site, and partly changed to avoid 100% plagiarism
 
12:09 PM
I'm not saying it was OK. I'm glad the plagiarism was caught. It just isn't obvious. I wanted to explain why I reviewed as OK. I even spot checked more than one phrase from it with Google searches to try to find plagiarism.
 
@RyanM I mean... surely the "To Mock a Mockingbird and Other Logic Puzzles: Including an Amazing Adventure in Combinatory Logic" is the first thing you.think about bluebird :) it was so funny to me as I am an SME, and a dominamt association with bluebird is promises before A+
 
Exactly why I left it for an SME to confidently reject :-p
 
@StephenOstermiller don't sweat it too much, mishaps happen (f.e., I incorrectly reported plagiarism yesterday)
@RyanM which I proceeded to do with great confidence and furious anger!
 
12:25 PM
wait, that's where that expression is from?
 
@StephenOstermiller That's fair, I may have come off more brash than intended as I was in an irritable mood, intention was to say that I had no issues finding it, although I could understand why other users wouldn't pick up on it immediately
 
1:18 PM
The answer looks to me like NAA but the FA reviewer thought it Looks ok.
 
Hhh, funny that I expected something much more egregorous. But yeah, OK is quite a stretch here
 
Is this room for worse reviews?
 
The bad, the worse, and the worst ones, yeah
 
This one was not bad enough?
 
Not saying anything :) just surprised to see the post not be too awful
 
1:34 PM
@JeanneDark It was fine Jeanne, just ignore Oleg :p
 
 
1 hour later…
2:57 PM
@JeanneDark Lovely, bog standard robo reviewer
@JeanneDark It's for the bad, the worse, the worst, and the stuff so awful it doesn't have a word that begins to describe it
 
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