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12:55 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Grimm
I sometimes find such comments useful when I've forgotten to mark an accepted answer for one of my questions. I think they should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis rather than a blanket rule. — Andrew Grimm 43 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew Grimm
I also find the comments useful when I forget to accept an answer. — Andrew Grimm 25 secs ago
 
1:30 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by RobH
Maybe a feature request to move those links over to the left sidebar would be in order if someone really wants that to happen. — RobH 9 secs ago
 
1:47 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by 41686d6564 stands w. Palestine
This is (almost) exactly my view on the subject. Two points though: 1) "Asking for upvotes in any situation [is not allowed]" I also agree that asking someone to upvote your own answer isn't appropriate, but it can be warranted in other situations (see my answer for an example). 2) "I would suggest that anything linking that help center article should be deleted with a single "No longer needed" flag" This doesn't guarantee that the asker will have seen the comment. There isn't really a perfect solution for this but perhaps a single flag from the asker should delete the comment? — 41686d6564 stands w. Palestine 13 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by 41686d6564 stands w. Palestine
Incidentally, this answer pretty much aligns with Martijn Pieters's answer referred to in the question above (including the part that was recently removed from the answer). — 41686d6564 stands w. Palestine just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ryan M
@41686d6564 1) That is, admittedly, a bit of an edge case. Personally, I'd still stick to "don't suggest upvoting, ever" if only because it makes enforcing the rule incredibly complex (what if one of the duplicate's answers is yours? what if there's a chain of duplicates and you have an answer somewhere down the line?). — Ryan M ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ryan M
@41686d6564 2) In an ideal world where there's infinite dev time to implement my whims, I'd say they should auto-delete after a week. In the world we live in, I think the best option is one that uses a system that already exists. As for a single flag from the asker deleting it, I'd put the chances of an asker who doesn't know about the "accept" button figuring out that they need to click the flag icon that says something about "serious problems or moderator attention" and select "No longer needed" at approximately zero. — Ryan M ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter is with Ukraine
I'd go the other way and disallow such comments anyways (even with your caveat) if there is inherent conflict of interest (i.e. the commenter posted an answer on the Q&A). This is straightforward to enforce and can even be automated to a degree. Given the common argument I've seen from defenders of those comments is helping the site and not fear of losing out on reputation, I think they should be fine with abstaining in cases where conflict of interest occurs. — Oleg Valter is with Ukraine 37 secs ago
 
2:30 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
The context is always such that it is impossible to use language that "doesn't include any hint of pressure". If nothing else, the reputation disparity between an established user leaving these comments and a brand-new user who is receiving them creates a power dynamic such that the new user feels pressured into taking action, even if they're not completely satisfied with all aspects of the answer. I have never once seen a comment of this nature that would fit the "no hint of pressure" bill. Ever. The example comment you posted is fine, just don't tell people how to vote (omit last sentence). — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
In your case, the rules were documented in the first moderator message that you received, telling you to kindly knock it off. When you keep doing what a moderator has already asked you to stop doing, then that's a rule violation, independent of what has been documented here on Meta or elsewhere. It's mind-boggling to me that you find it fascinating that upvoting and accepting is optional. How could it not be? The Help Center describes that the options exist; it doesn't state that it's mandatory to use them, especially not in a particular case. That is not the case for our quality standards. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
I don't know where this idea developed that including a link to an official Stack Overflow page (such as a Help Center article) within a comment automatically makes that comment fine, but such is not the case. Moderators see a lot of extremely rude or otherwise inappropriate comments that nevertheless contain a link to Help Center articles. But the real point here is that there's just no need to ask users to vote on or accept things, for all reasons noted in the post. It's like politics in the 1800s: asking for votes is considered gauche. Don't campaign; let your posts speak for themselves. — Cody Gray ♦ 46 secs ago
 
2:54 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by holydragon
I would like to know whether "How you gain technical skills" survey gives a bade at the end of it just like "The Annual Developer Survey" does. Anyone? — holydragon just now
 
3:05 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter is with Ukraine
Census badge is the only badge issued for completed a survey (the annual one), IRRC, and I do not see any new created, so no, no badges. — Oleg Valter is with Ukraine 38 secs ago
 
3:17 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Hovercraft Full Of Eels
Why not? Why should everyone like or dislike the same thing? — Hovercraft Full Of Eels 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Hovercraft Full Of Eels
And for what it is worth, you've really seen nothing. I have 5 questions on the main site, and currently their up/down vote tallies are: 142/-12, 13/-4, 7/-5, 17/-4, 22/-8, 20/-27 — Hovercraft Full Of Eels 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
This is possible because each individual user can vote however they like. It is not weird for different people to have different opinions. This is, in fact, normal. — Cody Gray ♦ 39 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew T.
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ryan M
I hate shredded coconut, but for some reason people keep putting it in food. Why do people like the thing that I think is terrible? — Ryan M ♦ 53 secs ago
 
3:47 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
You prefer your coconut flaked, @RyanM? — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ryan M
@CodyGray I prefer my coconuts turned into milk and used for curry. — Ryan M ♦ 26 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mark Ransom
Accepting an answer also serves a less obvious purpose - it indicates to the world that the question has been answered, and new answers are less likely to get attention. It's a great time saver for those that are browsing the list of questions. Users shouldn't be forced to accept an answer, but I don't see a problem with gentle encouragement. — Mark Ransom 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mark Ransom
This seems way too draconian. You're prioritizing the clueless newbs over the seasoned users who are trying to make the site better. — Mark Ransom 28 secs ago
 
4:04 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by 41686d6564 stands w. Palestine
@MarkRansom That's a good point. After all, we have a hasaccepted search operator and a "No accepted answer" filter for a reason. — 41686d6564 stands w. Palestine 16 secs ago
 
4:25 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
In what way is any "prioritization" occurring, @Mark? Our primary goal here is to reduce the amount of noisy comments that waste everyone's time: they waste the time of users who have to post them, they waste the time of everyone who looks at the Q&A and stumbles over them instead of useful, relevant content, and they waste the time of flaggers and/or moderators who have to delete them. There is no reason to, and multiple disadvantages entailed in, sharing this kind of information via comments. It is better provided as just-in-time help by the system, which it already is, obsoleting comments. — Cody Gray ♦ 25 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Indeed, several of the moderators think this is a good idea, after a similar solution was proposed internally a few days ago. We are currently discussing with staff about the possibility of implementing such a feature, almost exactly as you describe. The jury is still out regarding whether attempts to post these types of "thanks" comments should be blocked outright (as with "+1" comments, but with a far more helpful message), or whether they will just lead to a warning that can be bypassed if the poster insists. Probably, block vs. warning will be based on the length of the comment. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mark Ransom
@CodyGray if that system were truly obsoleting the comments we wouldn't be having this discussion. — Mark Ransom 49 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter is with Ukraine
I have to note that "accepted" has never meant, and should not mean "answered". It only meant "what the author found most useful to them personally", which neither indicates whether another answer will receive less attention, nor does it say anything about the quality of the answer (read: a pointless relic of the forum times). — Oleg Valter is with Ukraine 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ann Zen
Indeed, the 4 downvotes on your post do not seem to reflect the quality of your post, but a result of your last meta post that linked to it (in a comment). This (the meta effect) is, of course, not what we want for our voting system, but as it lives, just try to be more careful when involving specific posts in your meta posts. Cheers! — Ann Zen 47 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter is with Ukraine
It does reflect quality of the post, @AnnZen. It means that 8 people looked into it and found the post useful, while 4 looked into it found it not so [I am not involved in the post in any manner, but if I were to guess where downvotes came from, I find it extremely hard to believe that splitting an array in Java/Kotlin is not a mega-duplicate at this point]. — Oleg Valter is with Ukraine 13 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zev Spitz
I don't believe the system does a good job at informing new users about those tools. So that should be the direction to focus efforts -- e.g. automated inbox messages to the OP about questions without accepted or upvoted answers. These comments may be useful to a single user -- the OP -- but for everyone else they're nothing more than noise (except for the possibility that the OP might now accept the answer where previously they wouldn't). Reducing moderator load and comment noise is a big win. — Zev Spitz 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
That's not true at all, @Mark. For starters, it assumes that the people who are the intended targets of these comments wanted to accept an answer, but didn't know how. There's no evidence that is the case. Does it happen sometimes? Sure. Does it also happen that users might be uncomfortable accepting an answer because it's not perfect or doesn't address some lingering aspect of their question? Yes, and far more often. They likely saw the system prompt, but dismissed it. Yet, they went ahead and clicked the checkmark anyway, because someone "demanded" they do so in a comment. — Cody Gray ♦ 25 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Drew Reese
@CodyGray Sorry I think I've done a poor job of explaining the relevance of that middle part regarding the help section. I've revised and removed the less relevant details. I didn't say including help links automatically makes any comment fine, not sure where you're coming from with that one. Clearly extremely rude and inappropriate comments are, and should be, an entirely different class of issue than courteous comments, regardless if they refer someone to a help page or not. — Drew Reese 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
"Thanks, that worked!" is not equivalent to accepting an answer. Accepting an answer means a lot more than "it worked" and "I am grateful". It means that the answer is considered, in the mind of the asker, the best possible answer to the question, that they're fully satisfied with it, and that they are no longer seeking additional information. That's a far higher hurdle than you can read into "thanks, it worked". There are already plenty of inducements to users accepting an answer, including rep gain. We don't need any comments from anyone trying to further induce them into doing so. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
It... still isn't clear to me. You are somehow reading a description of the options available to a user as implying it is mandatory (or at least strongly encouraged) that users exercise these options. That's not how options work. Accepting an answer and/or upvoting it are completely voluntary. That really strikes at the heart of the issue here. The folks who are leaving the comments under discussion are not leaving open the possibility that the asker is not interested in upvoting or accepting an(y) answer, and that's a problem. You are attempting to pressure the user into doing so. — Cody Gray ♦ 57 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
I even see a significant percentage of the users who leave these types of comments stating explicitly (or at least implying) that they are less willing to help the user because they haven't accepted answers. That's so horribly wrong that I don't even know where to begin, and it's a large part of why moderator attention started getting focused on this particular matter. Contrary to what some appear to believe, this site isn't about reputation or badges or shiny fake Internet bling. It's not even about helping specific people. It's about building a knowledge repository. Accepts don't do that. — Cody Gray ♦ 56 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Joseph Sible-Reinstate Monica
@CodyGray "There are already plenty of inducements to users accepting an answer, including rep gain." Yes, but a lot of people don't know about this. — Joseph Sible-Reinstate Monica 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
The array of options is already dizzying. The biggest issue is not the "community-specific closure reasons", but rather the standard reasons that we're stuck with and cannot change or customize in any way. But, when combined, there are already too many options to choose from. Adding more will not help. I don't see any way in which the cap of 5 is standing in the way of progress. — Cody Gray ♦ 43 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
If anything is done, I'd much rather it be letting us customize the top-level reasons. Some of those could be eliminated outright or at least replaced with more specific reasons that give more actionable advice for the purposes of Stack Overflow. I think that comes closer to addressing Travis J's primary concern/motivation, while not bloating the total number of close reasons, the concern you draw out here, which I agree strongly with. — Cody Gray ♦ 32 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jfriend00
I answer a lot of newbie questions who do not know how the site works. Many do not know about the acceptance mark. If it is clear from our discussion in comments that an answer has solved/answered their question, then I drop them a non-pressuring comment to help educate them on the process of accepting an answer if they want to. I 10+ years, I've never seen any objection and have successfully educated probably more than 1000 newbie users on that process that the site does NOT properly communicate to them. I find it ridiculous that you're trying to shut that down. — jfriend00 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Drew Reese
@CodyGray I don't know what else to say. It appears that perception is the heart of the issue. We're (mostly) all adults here, making our own decisions. Some may perceive a comment as being helpful, others may perceive a comment as unhelpful. Either way, if certain specific types of comments are outright wrong, then let's make them overtly wrong. If these comments are really just noise, then why not leave it at that and let the normal flagging system do its job? — Drew Reese 47 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jfriend00
For me answering questions are a game to try to "win" the best answer contest. I try to go above and beyond in my explanation and examples to win that contest. If you're now saying that you don't even care about that contest, then that will certainly remove some of my enjoyment or motivation for producing great answers (11,000+ answers so far). If you're removing that "game" element of the site as having any priority at all, then I think this is the beginning of the decline of Stackoverflow. Most questions aren't high traffic and the main bonus for answering them is acceptance.' — jfriend00 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
@Gimby No, but questions about recovering lost commits from Git are on topic here. Your contrived example about a hard disk crash does not seem related to the specific questions that Juraj asked about, which are definitely about tasks performed by a software developer engaged in writing and debugging code for a microcontroller. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jfriend00
@CodyGray - In context, a comment to the tune of "that worked" nearly always means the OP is no longer seeking additional advice on the topic and is moving on to their next issue. If they still have issues, the comment will have a "but" in it or will raise some other aspect of the question. The bar for a checkmark is not "the best possible answer to the question". In theory no single answer here on stackoverflow ever meets that criteria as every single answer could theoretically be improved. So, that's a ridiculous bar for an acceptance. — jfriend00 18 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
I don't understand why the questions need to be downvoted. Are they unclear or not useful? Do they lack research effort? I mean, I'm certainly not trying to tell anyone how to vote; that's everyone's individual decision. But leaving a comment on a Meta discussion like this essentially states that these questions and others like them should be downvoted, and it comes very close to instructing other users to downvote them, and I just don't see how that it is in any way appropriate. — Cody Gray ♦ 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Juraj
the first two. yes I planed to flag them as "Needs details or clarity" if OP don't respond to comments. — Juraj 47 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
"I don't like having these questions on Stack Overflow" may be a technically valid downvote reason, in the sense that there's nothing a moderator could or would do if you were using downvotes to express that sentiment, but it's not a very productive approach, in my opinion. It would be rather like me deciding that all Perl questions were uninteresting to me, and thus deserved a downvote. Kinda unfair; Perl programmers might well find them interesting and useful. If the questions are missing information or need to be improved, then that's obviously a DV reason, but not based on their topics. — Cody Gray ♦ 15 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jfriend00
@CodyGray - A more appropriate bar for acceptance is that the answer fully explains a solution to the question (thus no future guidance is thought to be needed) and is the best of any answers offered so far. If an even better answer arrives later, the acceptance can be moved to that new answer if appropriate. — jfriend00 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Juraj
@CodyGray, yes "not useful" and "lack of research effort" in most cases — Juraj 10 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
"Needs details or clarity" also works, but in cases where the specific type of details/clarity that is needed is information to reproduce and/or debug the problem, then I strongly prefer to pick that specific reason, as it gives the asker more targeted, relevant guidance on how to improve their question and get it re-opened. Additionally, I want to note that you should not wait to cast a close vote/flag. If you see fit to leave a comment, that's great, but it should not delay your voting to close. See also: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/260265 and meta.stackexchange.com/a/98026Cody Gray ♦ 38 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Juraj
ok. thank you for the guideline — Juraj 34 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
What's ridiculous is assuming that the user acquiescing to accept an answer is equivalent to "successfully educating" them. Why not assume your comment had the effect of "successfully bullying" them? No one is attempting to call the intentions of users who leave these comments into question. I'm sure the vast majority of posters had the purest of intentions. But intentions aside, that's not how such comments come across, and not the effect they have. The mere fact that your 10+ years of such comments have led to what is, in your opinion, a desirable outcome is actually the key issue. @jfri — Cody Gray ♦ 23 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
We absolutely do not care about the contest. What we care about is the content. Going above and beyond to produce a high-quality answer should be done because you, too, care about the content, and, in general, about our overarching goal of creating a high-quality knowledge-base style resource for people with questions about programming. If the contest happens to produce high-quality content, I guess that's good. But if the contest is getting in the way and producing noise, then that's bad. Even if you want to treat this as a contest/game, then let's say that such comments are cheating. — Cody Gray ♦ 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Juraj
on Arduino SE we have a canonical answer for generic avrdude upload problem so we can close as duplicate. now we need the same canonical answer on SO — Juraj 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
How do you know that people don't know about this? You are assuming that because after you leave a comment telling them to accept an answer, they go ahead and do so. That doesn't prove that they didn't know about the benefits or inducements for accepting. It could equally well mean that they felt pressured by your comment into accepting an answer. That's not a positive outcome, and you can't disentangle that from merely looking at results. The user may well have made the conscious decision not to accept an answer after the system told them they could do so, but didn't feel like defending that. — Cody Gray ♦ 41 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
That's exactly what we're doing. Users who have a significant number of their comments flagged as being noise tend to get messages from moderators advising them of this fact and requesting them to stop leaving such comments in the future. — Cody Gray ♦ 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Drew Reese
It doesn't feel much like a policy change discussion so much as it feels like a policy change announcement. Whatever the new rule is, just please make it clear where the line is. — Drew Reese 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Maybe. With the caveat the "RTFM" duplicate closures aren't really encouraged. The duplicate needs to actually be a duplicate and it needs to actually answer the question that was asked. — Cody Gray ♦ 31 secs ago
 
5:57 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Drew Reese
@CodyGray I know you mods are crazy busy, but might I suggest when the moderation team is reaching out to moderate users for the messaging to be as specific as possible regarding issues, and if there are any requests for clarification, etc, that someone does actually respond back so the likelihood of it turning into more moderation work later is lessened? — Drew Reese 42 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
So... replies to moderator messages is something that is actually a bit broken. See, all mod message replies go into a global inbox to be seen by all moderators. But everything goes into that, and so that inbox fills up rapidly, especially if we've been suspending a lot of spam accounts, which is something we've been doing a lot of recently. What that means in practice is, it's very easy for us to lose track of a reply and forget to, well, reply to it. So, I'm sorry if that happened. We'd like to see system improvements here. Either way, they're not really a great tool for back-and-forth. — Cody Gray ♦ 43 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Drew Reese
@CodyGray Oh damn, sorry, I knew it was bad, I didn't know it was that bad. — Drew Reese 29 secs ago
 
6:27 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by stevec
Under certain circumstances, commenting "This works" can be extremely valuable, for example when the cost to testing the answer is high, and the perceived answer quality is low. TL;DR it can save future readers time. — stevec 1 min ago
 
6:39 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lundin
Regarding the blog post, I cannot understand why I would even consider writing one about something that I just learnt. Meaning that I know for sure that I'm a novice on the topic, that I may have misconceptions still and that I am for sure not yet ready to become a teacher of the subject. So what is the actually purpose of this supposed beginner blog post. Is it for narcissistic posing or narcissistic social media "likes"? — Lundin 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jfriend00
@CodyGray - Hmm, you don't care about the contest. Then you're shooting yourselves in the foot for one of the things that makes this place work. I guess I really ought to consider taking my services elsewhere. But, then nobody seems to care what one of their top 50 reputation users thinks. — jfriend00 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
I think this is more sane proposal. When I started using this site and I have been answering more questions from new users, I used to leave comments educating users that they can accept answers if the answer solves their problem with link to page that explains how accepting answers works. I would first check user post history and would do that only if they haven't accepted answer previously and they left comment thanking for solution. I would also leave such comments under other people's answers, not just mine. I haven't posted such comment for a long time, but I occasionally still might. — Dalija Prasnikar 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
Asking for upvotes is never OK. — Dalija Prasnikar 9 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jfriend00
@CodyGray - If I'm not spending all my time curating instead of actually writing answers, then nobody seems to like you on Meta. Meta is a ridiculous environment. It's all about curation and NOTHING else. It completely forsakes the fundamental things that make Stackoverflow work, attracting people to come write questions and encouraging people to write great answers. This is such a distorted place. The point of this seems to be curation and making moderators life easier - that's it - nothing at all to do with making the site better. I fear for the beginning of the decline of SO. — jfriend00 52 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jfriend00
@DrewReese - Yeah, I felt the same way. This was presented for discussion or solicitation of ideas/reactions. It was presented as a new policy to deal with. — jfriend00 17 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter is with Ukraine
I have no idea either, @Lundin. Apparently, it is a common occurence, though (just visit dev.to) - which is quite puzzling as I too, would not find it appropriate to start spewing posts about something I just learned until I have a solid understanding on what it is. — Oleg Valter is with Ukraine 38 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jfriend00
@CodyGray - Well, if you don't care about the contest, but do care about the content, then somehow you must think that the contest has nothing at all to do with the creation of content. If you really think that, then why not just get rid of reputation entirely. If the contest is meaningless and useless, then reputation must therefore also be meaningless. You're thrown the baby out with the bath water here. The contest is a means to an end. Sure, the content is the end game, but the contest is part of how you get good content.jfriend00 27 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jfriend00
@DrewReese - Yeah, I felt the same way. This wasn't presented for discussion or solicitation of ideas/reactions. It was presented as a new policy to deal with. — jfriend00 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Eike Pierstorff
@jfriend00 actually it was presented as a policy that already has been enforced for some time and is now finally explained to the broader public. I will do what I always do with these rules and just ignore them, and shrug my shoulders when I am eventually removed from the platform, because it really is not my loss when I am not allowed to work for free. — Eike Pierstorff 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jfriend00
@EikePierstorff - Yeah, your comment about working for free made me chuckle. Probably best just to ignore Meta entirely anyway. It's such a distorted place - probably better named "moderator's world" where the priority is curation and making moderator's lives easier, not creating great content. — jfriend00 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by RobC
Sometimes the “answers” themselves include a closing sentence that asks for accepts and/or votes. Presumably that’s also no longer allowed? — RobC 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
We are going to try to make this happen, but cant commit to it yet. The selection bias thing is real, and some one of the things that are very important for us to figure out is how much more organic exposure SG will get from inclusion in /questions listings, not to mention how many "active users with access to SG" we need in order to get folks looking at the incoming items. And allowing wide-scale opt-in at the very early stages might skew this too much. — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter is with Ukraine
That's never been allowed, @RobC. It's noise subject for removal according to the editing guidelines. — Oleg Valter is with Ukraine 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
The better question is: what is going to be more realistic. The 4 downvotes... or the 8 upvotes? I tend to give more credence to downvotes, because there are people using Stack Overflow that vote to be nice rather than to judge. — Gimby 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BSMP
"Because for viewing the entire post, we need to open it. So, that given a view" But you have to open a post to vote on it. — BSMP 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
You want to bring back the "Ultra Dark" mode from April Fools' Day 2020? Also, you know it's a myth that black saves more power on an AMOLED screen than dark gray, right? — Cody Gray ♦ 53 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
@CodyGray I'll keep my mind open because it is you, but I don't think that you saying that will stop close votes from rolling in on such questions. — Gimby 47 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
That said, the feedback of users who are enthusiastic about testing a section like this at its earliest stages and helping to give us their constructive thoughts on workflow and UX issues that could use some refinement is extremely valuable. So, again - we hope to be able to accommodate this request in some way, but dont know yet how/if it an happen (or if it wont happen at the very first testing round, but could happen for subsequent rounds). If we do open things up for opt-in, we will list this clearly in an MSO announcement related to the SG test release. — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tamás Sengel
@CodyGray Interesting, I didn't know that. I just like black more than gray. — Tamás Sengel 17 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
@jfriend00: Re "I try to go above and beyond in my explanation": That is what we need, instead of "try this" answers. But do you check for duplicates first? The main use case for Stack Overflow is finding answers by using a search engine. — Peter Mortensen 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
Thanks for this feedback. I like the idea, and agree that unlimited after-cap rep is probably too much. The bronze badge is awarded at the first review on review queues, and we might do something similar here, so I dont know if it is feasible to limit it to folks who haven't yet earned that badge. But I do like the idea of (if we were to have any rep incentives) to have some combination of: a lifetime and daily awarded rep cap, to only award it when the user is below a certain rep, doesn't have a silver badge yet, and maybe significantly less rep per award (SE does 2 rep points). — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jfriend00
@PeterMortensen - If I'm aware of a duplicate, I go try to find it and I even have my own reference list of regular duplicates. Otherwise, it's pretty hard to find a good duplicate on SO, even when you figure there probably is one. And, there are duplicates in partial concept that won't actually illustrate a direct solution to the OP's actual code. I refer to those as "go read the textbook duplicates". I generally avoid using those because they don't actually directly solve the OP's problem. — jfriend00 59 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by 41686d6564 stands w. Palestine
Let's first get regular dark mode on meta, then we can request additional colors. We've been promised that over two years ago. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ — 41686d6564 stands w. Palestine 52 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
@BendertheGreatest well then we have a complete failure of communication because I don't know what you mean by "I'm not sure what you mean by 1 or 3 as it relates to this question" :) Of course you found the one answer that is spit polished already, given your high moral standing (this meta post proves you have one), that might just imply you have to suck it up. But on the other hand I don't think anyone would bat an eye if you would do an insignificant edit to right your wrong. The site gives you the power to use as you see fit, so as long as the end result is an improvement in some way... — Gimby 41 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BSMP
Shouldn't we create a tag for the high-contrast mode? This isn't really about dark mode; links aren't underlined in dark mode. — BSMP 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tamás Sengel
@BSMP I created high-contrast-mode, it should be descriptive enough along with dark-mode. — Tamás Sengel 26 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Teaching new users how the site works is not and has never been the purpose of comments. Comments aren't directed at users; they're directed at posts. Their purpose is to suggest improvements to a post and/or ask clarification questions. If you want to teach users, you improve the system-provided guidance and/or get a moderator to send them a message. Considering we have no evidence that users are ignorant of how to use the site, as opposed to simply choosing not to use an optional feature, there is little reason to do either one. The guidance is far more than the tour and tooltips. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by RobC
@OlegValteriswithUkraine - presumably the same proposed enforcements will apply in such scenarios too? — RobC 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
Re "I assume that ones with accepted answers do not need me to answer them.": Some users accept any answer, whether it helped them or not, for the reputations points. — Peter Mortensen 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by iBug
@CodeGray If "thanks" are noise, then telling users not to generate noise is not. It's productive. That said, the new rule proposed in this post is only relevant after we have automatic guidance on users not to say "thanks". — iBug 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter is with Ukraine
wdym, @RobC? IIRC those are just edited out by normal users and mods only get involved when the user persists in rolling back such edits — Oleg Valter is with Ukraine 31 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jfriend00
@CodyGray - I don't ever "tell" someone to accept an answer. You used that word, not me. I explain the process and advise that if they want to indicate to the community that their question has been answered, they can do so by clicking the checkmark to the left of the answer that helped them the most. — jfriend00 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe stands with Ukraine
Also worth noting that, as proposed, a "far more helpful message" includes guidance to vote instead, in both the block and warning messages. — Zoe stands with Ukraine ♦ 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
How do I read this. You have a comment and a link makes it too long... or you have a link that is so long it does not even fit in a comment on its own? — Gimby 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
Re "I assume that ones with accepted answers do not need me to answer them.": Some users accept any answer, whether it helped them or not, for the reputation points (+2 for each). It is a way to award yourself reputation points (if questions attract answers). One reason could be desperation to get to a particular desired privilege level. Or simply to make the number go up. — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ryan M
Why hide the picture? You can't talk about a picture without, well, actually having the picture. — Ryan M ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
No, novices will have to learn through making mistakes if they choose to just blunder ahead without informing themselves properly first. I don't really know why you particularly want to discriminate on that group of people though, it's problematic for anyone to not try their best. — Gimby 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jfriend00
@CodyGray - Does it matter to you at all that the more time I spend on Meta, the less time I want to spend on SO. Meta is hugely discouraging. I guess I'm reminded why I should stop visiting Meta. All it does is convince me that SO is being run by curators who have no sense of what made it successful in the first place and how it attracts people to write questions and how you attract, incent and reward people for writing great answers. — jfriend00 41 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
But... this isn't about high-contrast mode. You specifically don't like the features of high-contrast mode. You're not looking for higher contrast. You're looking for an additional dark mode theme due to an aesthetic preference, not an accessibility one. — Cody Gray ♦ 10 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
Yes, it would be nice with more fine-grained linking, e.g. into the feature list or the glossary. But why restrict it to headlines? — Peter Mortensen 31 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
Well... I'm stunned. I really thought this already was disallowed! — Gimby 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Yes, @Gimby, I am often frustrated by the number of programmers (and, thus, close-voters) who think that software development consists entirely of web development. — Cody Gray ♦ 6 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ivar
You can always use a plugin like Stylus to add custom CSS rules (such as removing the underlines) to webpages/websites. Also, somewhat related to this question: _All_links_are_underlined_ in high contrast modeIvar 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
@jfriend00 "I don't ever 'tell' someone to accept an answer." Really? Because it seems like you did at least once (image for posterity), and after going through your commenting history, this does not look anything at all like an isolated incident. In fact, you tell people to accept an answer regularly, and it is not uncommon for that to be your own answer. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
Yes, but it must still be comprehensible. — Peter Mortensen 43 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
What makes it so difficult to include articles (definite or indefinite) and information about singular or plural? — Peter Mortensen 36 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Most of the mods thought so, too, @Gimby, but the reaction we've been getting from users whom we've reached out to about it has suggested a very different impression/understanding of what is allowed/customary, so we're trying to take a step back and clarify. — Cody Gray ♦ 31 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Juraj
@CodyGray, is a question which when 'minimized' can be reproduced as problem off topic on SO still on topic on SO? (for example run not codding specific tool from command line instead of as process from code or IDE). you say "yes it is on topic" — Juraj 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@Ivar related, self-promotion: I have a userscript targetting thatVLAZ 59 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
You're right about Meta being a place that is focused on content curation and improving the site. You're incorrect about these people forgetting what made SO successful in the first place. In fact, most of us who participate here are the people who made SO successful in the first place, and we accomplished it by posting high-quality content with extreme focus on curation. Yahoo Answers did the opposite; you can see how that turned out. We have plenty of people who write questions; we need spend no effort/focus on attracting more. Nor do we need more rewards. We need more quality and clean-up — Cody Gray ♦ 18 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
I don't know what "thanks" has to do with anything. As has been noted elsewhere, we are agreed that it would be useful to come up with system-level blocks and improved guidance for users who post "thanks" comments, but that's not what is being discussed here. What is being discussed here are comments where users ask for accepts and/or votes on an answer. If you're trying to argue that such comments would, in the long run, decrease the amount of noise, I'm afraid that is empirically denied. We've got thousands of comments like this begging for accepts going back years; it's not helping anyone. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
What kind of links are that long? Some that embed a lot of source code lines? Can you hint at it? — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jfriend00
@CodyGray - So you're trying to drop dirt from 7 years ago to prove a point? That isn't even telling, it's asking. That's not wording I use any more. But, you've just convinced me to abandon any future visits to Meta and perhaps even abandon my free contributions on SO. Once again, I wonder if the people who actually work for the company know who's minding the store here because it's really unhealthy for the long term health of SO. — jfriend00 25 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
Some are compelled (in order to graduate) to use Turbo C++ from the early 1990s. — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Larnu
There's also too many people that think that downvotes are "unfriendly" or "unkind" so don't use them, or don't use them because it'll cost them precious 1 reputation; so like @Gimby , I too tend to give about 5 times more weight to a downvote on the main site (on meta, they're about equal). — Larnu 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
@PeterMortensen Google Maps links maybe, webapps where a lot of data is embedded in the url itself. — Gimby 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Where else are they going to find contributors for the Stack Overflow Blog? — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
This proposal doesn't really solve the issue with comment noise. Users don't go through their comment history regularly. — Dharman ♦ 46 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ryan M
@Dharman requiring a particular link to be included would allow easy bulk cleanup by making them trivially searchable for either moderators or users casting NLN flags. — Ryan M ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
This isn't a help desk. Askers have no responsibility to engage with answerers. Comments like your example have always been regarded as noise, were never allowed, and will continue to be deleted on sight. As a related fact: screaming into a void does not accomplish anything. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
Why would you ever need a feedback from the asker. If the question was unclear, don't answer it and vote to close. If you knew the problem then you know your solution should work. Up votes and down votes from future viewers will be your main feedback. — Dharman ♦ 46 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
In what way does this avoid pressuring a user into accepting your answer? (Hint: in no way at all.) — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
Yes, but they would still be visible to many users who it doesn't concern — Dharman ♦ 49 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andrew T.
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Anoop Rana
@CodyGray Because now the user has a choice whether to click on the link or not, and additionally we're not asking for accpetance or upvotes now. — Anoop Rana 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Um, seriously? A choice whether to click the link or not? I mean, they have a choice not to read any of your comments at all, but that doesn't make a comment that threatens or insults them OK. You are clearly asking for acceptance, because you've linked a Help Center article that describes to them exactly how to accept an answer. How else is that meant to be interpreted? — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Anoop Rana
@CodyGray But by replying "you're welcome i never asked for votes/accept. — Anoop Rana 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ryan M
This policy is currently under discussion here, and its form there addresses this so-called loophole. Please discuss the policy there so that everything is in one place. — Ryan M ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Surely you are not serious. I guess you did claim this was a "loophole" in the "new policy", but it really isn't. Moderators aren't robots. We're actually going to read the comments. If you make implicit requests for users to accept your answer by linking to a Help Center article that describes how to accept an answer, then that still counts as a request. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Anoop Rana
@CodyGray My point is that "i never asked the user to accept my post/answer". By saying you're welcome the user is made aware in general of the feature of voting/accpeting an answer/post. Asking for accpetance and making user aware in general are two different things. And that too only if the user in question has not closed any of the question asked before by accepting an answer. — Anoop Rana 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ouflak
"We've (the moderator team) been wrestling with this issue for some time." - I assume you mean just the SO moderators? I couldn't find any recent discussion on the Teams channel, and I think it's obvious that this is a site wide issue. — ouflak 14 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Context matters. If you assume the user can read and get your implication, then also assume that moderators can, too. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
As Ryan already described, topicality is not assessed ex post facto. You don't figure out what the answer is, determine that it's considered "general computing", and then declare the question off-topic. Questions about tools commonly (and, especially, those about tools exclusively) used by programmers are on-topic here. That includes IDEs, debuggers, flashers, etc. Topicality isn't supposed to be enforced by close-voters; that's only an escape hatch. The design is that the asker should be able to figure out for themselves whether their question is on-topic, by knowing only the topic. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by OfirD
@Dharman, many times the question is perfectly clear, and so does the answer, and yet the asker needs more help with something directly related to its question - and just never asks about that something. They may open another question on such cases, but usually they don't. — OfirD 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by OfirD
@CodyGray, didn't say they have responsibility to engage, and I'm certain you don't really mean askers are "void". But do they have any responsibility with relation to the answerer? Or they just fire (a well written question) and forget? — OfirD 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ouflak
@CodyGray, But if users can't take that particular to help, especially new users, to learn how to use the site in a positive way, what other opportunities are there? If we don't like the wording of the 'someone answer' to include the option of not either upvoting or accepting an answer. I'm a bit concerned by the tone this discussion is starting to take. — ouflak 58 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Drew Reese
Oddly enough, your proposed alternative is the exact use case scenario I use when leaving a comment with a link to the help, almost verbatim. Seems at least one mod is sensible and understanding that the current system is rather ineffective. I fully support this. — Drew Reese 49 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
@ouflak I don't really understand your comment. The point is that telling a user they should accept an answer is not considered helpful, as accepting an answer is optional and does not improve the site in any way. The primary motivation behind these comments is self-interest, namely increasing the author's own reputation by getting +15 from an accept vote. This doesn't serve the greater good. New users are already given plenty of guidance by the site itself, in various forms, in appropriate contexts, with a neutral tone, of how to use the site. If they choose to ignore it, that's their right — Cody Gray ♦ 44 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by EvgenKo423
@CodyGray You may also consider to automatically delete such comments after X flags in advance. ;-) — EvgenKo423 17 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Modus Tollens
I would prefer getting rid of the acceptance mark alltogether. I'd rather educate users to upvote and downvote accordingly. What I've seen to often: a new user asked to accept by the first person who answered and accepting because falsely believing it to mean "thanks" and ignoring all following answers, and other new users interpreting the acceptance mark as a sign of the most correct answer. It's frustrating and it doesn't help keeping quality up. — Modus Tollens 1 min ago
 
9:27 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
@OfirD Yeah, but that's their thing to do: open a new question. You are not here to mentor people. You are providing good solutions that don't require anyone's approval, especially not the asker's approval — Dharman ♦ 48 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
suspect or suspend? — Dharman ♦ 31 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Juraj
@CodyGray, the canonic answer on Arduino SE for avrdude's very general message"not in sync" lists troubleshooting steps. — Juraj 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
When moderators write things on Meta Stack Overflow, it's reasonable to assume that they're talking about moderating things on Stack Overflow, @ouflak. That said, I'm sure this would also be an issue on other Stack Exchange sites, if they operated at the scale that Stack Overflow does for as many years. Check back in 6-8 years, and I suspect you'll find it being a problem. Or maybe not, because on smaller sites where the comment volume is substantially lower, moderators can and have been staying on top of deleting comments like these as they come in, rather than building up mountains of 'em. — Cody Gray ♦ 34 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
My sentiments exactly, @Modus. And that's a lot of what goes into my support of this policy, namely the systematic removal and banning of comments from users asking other users to accept their answers. It's true that there are built-in system-level prompts that attempt to educate users at an appropriate time, in a neutral context. It's problematic to determine how effectively they work, since opting out is a choice. But even if they don't work at all, all things considered, I'd rather have new users not accepting answers than new users feeling bullied into accepting wrong/incomplete answers. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
This one is probably justified... — Peter Mortensen 13 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Yes, fire and forget. The asker's responsibility stops with providing a clear, complete, answerable question that complies with our requirements and is a useful contribution to our knowledge base. If they choose to engage further, they certainly can, and the system does encourage them to do so in many ways, but further engagement is fully optional. It's entirely reasonable for me to go on the site and "seed" it with high-quality questions that I think should be answered as a useful addition to the knowledge base. My involvement can stop there, and I've still contributed positively. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter is with Ukraine
One possible amendment I suggested is disallowing such comments in case of conflict of interest. It would keep users that do this in good faith and sparingly on the safe side (although I firmly believe [and with evidence] you and some others are unicorns in terms of leaving comments on posts they are not involved in). — Oleg Valter is with Ukraine 15 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ouflak
(Computer crashed, reposting an edited version). @CodyGray, But if users can't take that particular opportunity to help, especially new users, to learn how to use the site in a positive way, what other opportunities are there? If we don't like the wording of the 'someone answer', then we should include the option (and perhaps even emphasize) the option of not either upvoting or accepting an answer, which is a perfectly valid option. For comments being 'second hand citizens', I'm a bit concerned by the tone this discussion is starting to take. — ouflak 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ouflak
@CodyGray"I'd rather have new users not accepting answers than new users feeling bullied into accepting wrong/incomplete answers." But no users should feel bullied into doing anything on the site. Reviewing, voting, commenting,... whatever. If users are feeling bullied, then that is a completely separate problem than comments suggesting that people upvote or accept (using tools that the user may not even know are available). — ouflak 44 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ouflak
@CodyGray, Are you wanting to restrict the tone of the such requests, or the requests themselves? I'm wary that a polite positive request that can help a user take part in the site in a way that they (and perhaps all of us) would appreciate. — ouflak 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gino Mempin
This is META Stack Overflow, where we ask questions about Stack Overflow. You should post this on the main site: stackoverflow.comGino Mempin 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Drew Reese
Why are comments that effectively only link to help getting grouped together with the comments seeking votes/accepts? These are two different types of comments. The goal appears to be to lighten the moderation workload, keep the site lean. Where is this "pressure" and bullying aspect coming from? Why is the aspect of inappropriate comments which have very specific close reasons getting mixed with noisy comment that could be flagged NLN? — Drew Reese 12 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Larnu
"What did you expect?" A description of your goals. Details of why the code you have didn't work. An explanation of why your attempts to fix said code didn't work. As the error says: "details". If you just dump the code that's not a question. — Larnu 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ryan M
Yes, but you need to ask a clear question about that code. Almost every post I've seen that attempts to evade this requirement ends up being unclear. — Ryan M ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Suraj Rao
You would need to explain the problem with your code for people over the internet to understand — Suraj Rao 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tadeusz Kopec for Ukraine
@CodyGray The system guides users in the area of accepting answers. It also guides them in the area of not posting "Thanks, that worked." comments. So if they post such comments anyway, it seems that guiding did not work in their case. How telling them about the proper action is worse bullying than telling them that such comments are improper action? — Tadeusz Kopec for Ukraine 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
@VLAZ: Yes, the same with Cinnamon (excellent product, though. Or rather the least worst). — Peter Mortensen 33 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Larnu
"Are you a programmer?" To answer this literally as well, no, I am not. I'm a DBA. Not all users here are programmers. I actually do very little programming, and I'm not fluent in any programming languages. — Larnu 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter is with Ukraine
It might come as a surprise, but we do not speak binary most of the time. Natural language is still the way to go when describing what does not work, where issue happens, and a whole lot of other things. — Oleg Valter is with Ukraine 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
How did you arrive there? From a link somewhere? If so, where? From a search engine? Something else? — Peter Mortensen 40 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by E_net4
This is naïve and close to condescending. Don't be that person. — E_net4 42 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
@Ann Zen: Yes, statistically clickbait works. But I am sick and tired of it on YouTube. And of shocked faces. — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Larnu
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Larnu
Someone with 230 reputation should know that if your question is closed as a duplicate, that there is an edit feature you can use to improve said question. Though your last question wasn't a discussion (or request for [support]) it was a (in my opinion) a poorly constructed demand. — Larnu 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
That's just a spam comment posted by a random user linking to a random chat room. It didn't actually move any comments anywhere. Only moderators can do that, and that user isn't a moderator. At any rate, this question concerns an event that occurred on Computer Science Educators, which means it is off-topic for Meta Stack Overflow. I've migrated it directly to the CS Educators Meta site, where you'll hopefully get a good answer. I recommend flagging that comment under your answer, and the rest of 'em on the Q&A, as "no longer needed", or perhaps a custom flag alerting mods to the scale of abuse. — Cody Gray ♦ 58 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
"There's a difference between someone "begging" for votes or pressuring users into voting/accepting and someone trying to merely educate new users about the tools that the site provides for them to use instead of "thanks" comments or the like" - indeed, very much so. But the trouble is that people reading the comment with good intentions can see that as a validation to create their comments with questionable intentions behind them. "Oh, apparently it is fine to ask for upvotes / acceptance." I don't have faith in the fact that people can resist. — Gimby 56 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
You did this already. Don't keep asking the same question over and over. — Cody Gray ♦ 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Catherine Ivanova
@Lamu it wasn't question at all , it was a suggestion — Catherine Ivanova 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gimby
(follow up: keeping in mind that the goal is to reduce moderator workload, not to define what is fair and unfair or right and wrong). — Gimby 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Larnu
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Catherine Ivanova
@Lamu are you stack-overflow official ? — Catherine Ivanova 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Catherine Ivanova
@Ryan M it often required to attach thousands lines of logs or code, and I use gist.github.com - an external link, and those lines are absolutely necessary. There are 20% of such questions. I am the programmer — Catherine Ivanova 46 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ryan M
It should never be required to attach thousands of lines of code. This is why we require a minimal reproducible example - emphasis on minimal. Also, you shouldn't be relying on links to make your question clear, as links can change, be inaccessible due to corporate firewalls, etc. Instead, include the relevant parts of the link's content in your post. — Ryan M ♦ 52 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Catherine Ivanova
@Ryan M you wrote "It should never be required to attach thousands of lines of code" I DISAGREE! — Catherine Ivanova 56 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ryan M
Would you care to give an example of a question that can only be clear with thousands of lines of code? — Ryan M ♦ 14 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
Why do you disagree? Who do you expect to read thousands line of code? — Dharman ♦ 17 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Catherine Ivanova
@Dharman " Who do you expect to read thousands line of code? " A PROGRAMMERS!! Are you a programmer? — Catherine Ivanova 50 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
Yes, but why do I need to read so much code to understand that it's the same issue that I am facing? If I find your question from search I already expect it to be about the same issue so I only need to see a small bit of reproducible code to confirm it. — Dharman ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ryan M
I'll happily read thousands of lines of code if you're paying me. My rates aren't cheap, though. For free, you're going to need to make your question clear with a lot less. — Ryan M ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
The point of a question on Stack Overflow is to present the issue in a clear understandable form. This means that the problem description is more important than the code. — Dharman ♦ 28 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Catherine Ivanova
@Dharman look. For example there is an error with instantiating a Spring bean and I need to attach a class hierarchy for people and saying 800 lines of logs. People asked me for that. And I am forced to use gist.github.com — Catherine Ivanova 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
Could you not reproduce the same problem with a much smaller sample code? — Dharman ♦ 43 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user438383
With all due respect, most of the time people can make a smaller working example, they just can't be bothered, since cutting down the code to the smallest required amount is usually as much effort as solving the problem. — user438383 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
Even in my daily work, when I see a file with 1000 lines of code I immediately lose interest in reading it. — Dharman ♦ 9 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Catherine Ivanova
@Dharman maybe yes or maybe not. Why I should to ? People asked my for entire class hierarchy and "please show whole log" is very often request — Catherine Ivanova 13 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
They don't mean to ask you to show them the whole codebase. Just show enough to reproduce the issue. Would I be able to copy the code and run it in my environment with the details you provided? If yes, then that's enough. — Dharman ♦ 40 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Catherine Ivanova
@Dharman so? Sometimes seven classes are required to reproduce an issue. More often people aren't going to run code in their environment but want to see a lot of details. — Catherine Ivanova 13 secs ago
 

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