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12:03 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andreas
Also; "My design is too big/ugly?". As I wrote, I don't like the thumbs up/down icons, but I really don't like the rounded corners either. They're too large. Maybe shouldn't have rounded corners at all. If the point is to make it obtrusive, then yes, it succeeds at that, which is something I really don't want it to be, as already explained why. I also find that the borders are kinda old-fashioned and outdated. I just simply like the design as it is today. — Andreas 53 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andreas
If you meant that a popup/tooltip should pop up when hovering over the buttons, then, well, we already have that. What if the user doesn't hover over them? — Andreas 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andreas
I misunderstood your fourth point, so here goes my original response to that: "Opening up a popup for every vote, is just really annoying. To new users? Maybe? Could be nice? Would be confusing the day it stops popping up. Reason for downvoting should rather pop up as a new optional button below the downvote button." So, why did I misunderstand it? Obviously because my brain didn't do as it should, but it's also a consequence of that you didn't give any explanation to what that popup is, how it pops up, why it pops up, when it pops up, and where it pops up, and how it reads. — Andreas 1 min ago
 
12:47 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Reg Edit
"With this, new users will no more be afraid of the -1 and will be more clever to target very bad answers since there is a good chance for a deletion and another +1"--maybe, but unfortunately perhaps also more clever to simply target answers that have one or more downvotes already, without even reading a word of the answer, with the same goal? Hence this could have a serious detrimental effect. One can almost imagine the gold rush to get points, with a fusillade of downvotes as the marauding mob, spotting a down-voted answer, smell blood and sense another kill! — Reg Edit 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Xilpex
I think we all must ask ourselves if this is the perfect time to do this. — Xilpex 47 secs ago
 
1:21 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Donald Duck
Now this feature announcement is the most unpopular one ever, even more unpopular than the one about hot meta posts. — Donald Duck 33 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Donald Duck
Your code has a bug, it considers "than" as a synonym to "thanks". For example it won't let me post the comment "More than what?". — Donald Duck 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Donald Duck
Also another bug in your code is that your regex is case sensitive. For example it will allow all-caps comments like "THANK YOU!!!" without any problem. It would be better to make it case-insensitive by adding i at the end, like /your-regex-here/i. — Donald Duck 58 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter
@DonaldDuck - Re:unpopular - yeah, it broke several records - never seen an announcement with more than 1000 downvotes before. Re:bug - well, I did not think too much about the implementation for a test, but thanks for pointing that out - will address. — Oleg Valter 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by 10 Rep
@Teharez Don't do that. If you thank a off-topic answer, the answerer might get the wrong impression. — 10 Rep 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter
Although that does not mean I shouldn't have seen that thank? will result in false positives like than - thank you for noticing :) — Oleg Valter 10 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Catija
Is there something specific causing you to feel that way? — Catija ♦ 20 secs ago
 
2:35 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Donald Duck
I actually saw something similar happen just recently. A user with around 500 reputation posted a bunch of spam answers with links to his blog, and I and others flagged those answers as spam causing him to lose all his reputation. I obviously don't know the details of what happened next, but apparently he asked the moderators to forgive him since last I checked my flags (which were initially marked as helpful) got marked as disputed and the user had gotten his 500 reputation back. — Donald Duck 54 secs ago
 
3:01 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by wim
@jpmc26 I wrote that it is not always easy, though it is often easy, as you've pointed out. Some topics are just hard to search, e.g. a question about an operator or syntax for which you don't know the common name. — wim 33 secs ago
 
3:13 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Modus Tollens
@CetinBasoz I gave you that link to show why I don't comment on downvotes as often as I used to because of the vile reactions. I don't like to be treated that way. Still do comment a lot on posts I didn't downvote, though, but always preceeded by "I didn't vote, but...". Still, few users react constructive. Many are still offended and react defensively instead of improving their post. In many cases it's a waste of time, sadly. — Modus Tollens 1 min ago
 
3:29 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by philipxy
Indeed it's not called "favorite" any more, but "bookmark". — philipxy 6 secs ago
 
4:09 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by philipxy
This is really a SO question, not a meta.SO question. Probably a duplicate one. — philipxy 1 min ago
 
4:23 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alex
Does 7 day count get reset if a user deletes their question? I see a lot of people deleting their questions ..... — Alex 5 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alex
Does 7 day count get reset if a user deletes their question? I see a lot of people deleting their questions ..... — Alex 40 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by akuzminykh
You may want to check out this: Life isn't fairakuzminykh 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cetin Basoz
@ModusTollens, you cannot generalize that. I firmly believe any down vote needs an explanation. It is a fact that down voting is an abused power. — Cetin Basoz 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cetin Basoz
@JohnMontgomery, I don't understand what you are saying. I am talking about down votes that doesn't provide any explanation although the answer is really the reply to the question. You are assuming every down vote is right. — Cetin Basoz 23 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Igby Largeman
A per-post reputation cap is probably the most obvious potential solution, but I expect that's been discussed many times here already. — Igby Largeman 31 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by 1201ProgramAlarm
I'm not familiar with Ansible. This answer is based on the wiki descriptions of the two tags and what I think I've seen other product tags handle versioning. — 1201ProgramAlarm 5 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cetin Basoz
@JohnMontgomery, explain this down vote to me please as an example: stackoverflow.com/questions/39436507/why-use-left-join-at-al‌​l/…Cetin Basoz 1 min ago
 
4:53 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cetin Basoz
"nobody demands an explanation for the upvotes" is completely wrong. All upvotes are a result of an explanation. Otherwise where and how are you upvoting? Down votes should never be allowed without an explanation. — Cetin Basoz 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cetin Basoz
You are right but even in this thread you can see the blaming down votes against those who think down votes without explanation are bad. — Cetin Basoz 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cetin Basoz
@Dharman, do you believe down voting without an explanation ever serve the purpose of "we need a voting system to separate good from the bad"? Really? — Cetin Basoz 34 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Modus Tollens
@CetinBasoz Loads of downvotes do get an explanation. Just look at comments on downvoted posts. Users might not always state how they voted, but often comments do give reasons. Still, they shouldn't be mandatory. If you see downvoted posts without comment, feel free to comment with a possible reason. — Modus Tollens 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
"is it reasonable to continue giving the OP any credit at all for that "community effort"?" let's flip this - should we discredit OP for producing a Q&A that helped thousands? OK, sure - I get the idea. There are some questions from the past that have gained immense popularity and we, in the present, can't possibly compete with them. I have felt the same way myself. But here is the thing - why would we need to compete? The main goal of SO is to be a repository for useful Q&As. So, strive for that. It just happens that some questions are useful for more people. — VLAZ 53 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Modus Tollens
@CetinBasoz "It is a fact that down voting is an abused power." - I diagree and find a statement like that pretty rude, actually. Look. You downvoted 42 posts over almost 9 years. You flagged 7 posts. Consider that you might not have that much experience on the curating side of Stack Overflow. You probably didn't experience as much abuse as other moderating users and therefore have a different point of view. That doesn't mean it is correct. — Modus Tollens 2 mins ago
 
 
1 hour later…
6:19 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lundin
@Catija Apart from the pandemic, probably this. We just had a mod election at Electrical Engineering and it was a farce. Few candidates, few voters, people refraining from participating or voting out of principle. — Lundin 1 min ago
 
6:37 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rene
If that is the 6502 that is used in a Commodore 64 then you can try Retro Computing as well. — rene 24 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Uri Loya
Well, you have to color it somehow... — Uri Loya 27 secs ago
 
6:55 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by omatai
See the clarification I was writing as you responded — omatai 27 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by omatai
The problem of trust. Otherwise: why does reputation even exist? — omatai 58 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
What problem are you trying to fix here? — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
How is that a problem? — Cerbrus just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
How is it not doing what it's supposed to do? — Cerbrus 24 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by omatai
How is something not doing what it was supposed to do - indeed: highlighted as such - NOT a problem? — omatai 54 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BDL
I still don't get why it is a problem that someone who wrote an awesome question/answer has a high reputation, no matter how active they are. — BDL 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by omatai
Convince me that the contributor has convinced their peers they knew what they were talking about. — omatai 32 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by omatai
And you could always set N=40, and take your vacation. Your reputation would remain, but users who write one novice question every year or two would not be rated as highly reputably as you. How does that NOT improve reputation in terms of being an indication of trustworthiness? — omatai 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Samuel Liew
Did you mean this question? It was already reviewed stackoverflow.com/review/reopen/26535006Samuel Liew ♦ 49 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
I think you're taking reputation points a little too seriously. — Cerbrus 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mahan Lameie
How can I view is my question reviewed or not and why it is also opinion-based? which part of this question is opinion-based that moderators voted not to open it? — Mahan Lameie 18 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Heki
I almost never downvote. That is simply and exclusively because of the -1 rep. I feel like I get punished for downvoting and thus only do it if the answer/question is absolutely atrocious. I have 135 up and 3 down. I would have cast a lot more downvotes on subpar content if it wasn't for that -1. It has taken me almost 10 years to get my 784 reputation. I have awarded a bounty and I feel better about loosing rep that way than casting downvotes. -1 is way too much - I would easily have cast 100 downvotes, but I would rather spend that rep on bounties - so I refrain. — Heki just now
 
7:35 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by E_net4 is not cute
@DevilsAdvocate That is a valid perspective, and one that you should embrace: make your questions the best they can be, so that they may live on to be useful to more people than just the asker. One of the major conclusions from this Meta question is that, in a site of this scale with such a huge stream of questions arriving every day, askers should not be expecting the customer treatment. — E_net4 is not cute 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
It's indeed a problem that question authors are not notified of an unsuccessful review (or are they?). Maybe now with the timeline you can check for yourself. Just click on that small timeline symbol on the left of the question and see this and then search for reviews. — Trilarion 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
As for opinion based, it may not be. I don't really understand the question but I also don't have experience with ML.NET. From the website of ML.NET it looks like it is a framework written in C#. Do you maybe want to ask how to call C# code from Python? The question may be a bit unclear, which would be another close worthy reason. — Trilarion 16 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
Reputation is a rough measure of community trust, @omatai - Stack has never claimed it was an accurate one — Zoe 10 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Temani Afif
let me give an example of one of our best CSS contributor on the site: stackoverflow.com/users/2606013/harry ... this user is no more active since 2017, you know why? because he's dead ... (yes it's true, this not a joke ..). Should we stop rewarding this user because he can no more be active? should we stop his good answers from getting more upvotes because he's dead? that doesn't make any sense at all ... — Temani Afif 52 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Why wouldn't that user just flag the chat message? — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
This is basically the same question as Bhargav Rao's... — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
To answerers: please note that the profile of this user states that he/she is 12 years old. — Trilarion 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
The ToS requires you to be 13+ btw (16+ in some areas IIRC). If you're in breach of the ToS, it's never a good idea to brag about it (your account may be terminated) — Zoe 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Heki
@bta Very good idea, best so far IMO. It should be a popup on the site. Something that goes away when the question/answer is opened or 'x' is clicked, but not something that can be disabled through a setting. No e-mail notification though. — Heki 1 min ago
 
8:13 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by SoumyaMahunt
Waiting for 15 minutes after posting isn't going to make the questions answered faster, hence most people don't do that and they proceed with their work. And yes, initial interaction from users is random, but implementing this could make subsequent interaction with those users faster. — SoumyaMahunt 35 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Igby Largeman
Alternatively they could have accepted that humans like to express thanks to each other with words, and that it's harmless really. — Igby Largeman 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jpmc26
@wim No, you asserted that the difficulty is the primary cause for users not finding duplicates. (Although even "primary" is generous to you. Your choice of wording would normally suggest it to be the only cause, but I doubt you intended to be absolute.) In my experience, lack of effort is the main reason. The cases in which there is legitimate difficulty in developing search terms are less common. — jpmc26 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Scratte
@Cerbrus Maybe the user thinks that all the >10K other users (perhaps including the ones in the conversation) will be alerted to the flag? — Scratte 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George Barwood
I may have misunderstood the new feature, but I suspect most of the comments were not simply one word "Thanks", but "Thanks" with some extra information, which cannot be conveyed by a button. — George Barwood 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by fedorqui 'SO stop harming'
The funny thing is that votes for low rep users are already being counted, only that the info is just available through SEDE — fedorqui 'SO stop harming' just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by cglacet
I don't feel 90% of questions are crap. Very far from that. I would say the opposite, 90% of them are quite good. Of course most questions are not relevant to me but if a question is clear, then it's good. Concerning duplicates I think it's not a problem unless you are the one paying for data storage. A duplicate simply is an alias to another question. If you wanted to achieve collaborative single source of truth you would build wikipedia not a QA website. SO is just a pile of well indexed duplicates that build a web of word-links so any user can find an answer using its favorite search engine — cglacet 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by cglacet
The goal is to capture most request, which is why the bigger the word-web is, the better for the end user (not the one asking or answering, the one looking for an existing answer via the most accurate words he/she could think of). — cglacet 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adriaan
One of the main points of criticism on the feature was that it was pushed through to testing phase before being announced, against company policy. Could you please address this as well, in particular how you'll avoid pushing through tests/features before announcing them in the company-approved channels to the general user base? — Adriaan just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Temani Afif
But beyond that goal, this feature is also intended to provide an alternative way for users to express their appreciation for the efforts of other users --> but why?? do we really need an alternative to voting? ... using a paradigm that is familiar to them from other sites on the Internet. --> other sites are forums and social websites, SO is not one of them. Am I wrong? — Temani Afif 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ander Biguri
Considering the perceived ovbiousness by the community of how bad idea the emojis are, and the large mistrusts SO is generating by not having seen that and not having asked first (as the new CEO said it would happen more often), my question: will the data used to make any final decision by you about the emojis be accessible so we can also study it? — Ander Biguri 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Scratte
Why is there an attempt to make users feel like they are on a familiar forum, when the community goal is to make them understand that they are not? It seems that there a very conflicting interests here. — Scratte 49 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by HyperCreeck
Actually I dont have a Commodore 64 nor Commodore VIC-20. I don't even have a Raspberry PI! — HyperCreeck 9 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Does this mean that if we keep posting comments that insult the poster, we'll get an emoji reaction for that, too? I mean, there's a clear and pressing "need"... — Cody Gray ♦ 46 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by HyperCreeck
Thanks, @rene!! — HyperCreeck 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
I don't see how that's a problem. Chat flags are anonymous... — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by cglacet
I have 3% downvote and honestly I think most of them come from downvotes on questions/answer that should have been removed anyway (so useless downvote in some sense). @Trilarion downvoting will never come naturally, it's against our nature (as humans). — cglacet 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
@cerbrus Then I see you already have an answer for this question. Your response would be to reprimand the user for wasting your time and using wrong flag. — Dharman 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
I'd problably ask the user to use chat flags, instead. I wouldn't reprimand him. — Cerbrus 43 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by cglacet
@CaiusJard You link points to an article of a guy copy pasting some xml, I'm pretty sure everyone on earth can understands xml. — cglacet 1 min ago
 
9:15 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by cglacet
@CodyGray if everyone agrees that we must encourage downvotes then it's not an open question anymore and it's very unlikely that a solution would arise from discussions. If the question actual intent is to know "What can we do to encourage downvoting?" then it's very weird because it would mean the OP assumes it's a good system, which is clearly not the case otherwise even this surface question wouldn't arise. I think the title is just a click bait title to the actually more profond question "Downvotes do not work, why? What can we do? Let's talk about this to understand the subject better." — cglacet 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by cglacet
@CodyGray But maybe I assume wrong and the question is what it literally says. If that's the case then I feel it's not an interesting question to debate (as it is way too specific). — cglacet 28 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
"downvoting will never come naturally, it's against our nature (as humans)" Just look at the question, there are people will almost all downvotes and not only some but thousands of them. I kind of doubt that downvoting is completely against our nature (or some people just are not very bound by their nature). @cglacet — Trilarion 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
"is it reasonable to continue giving the OP any credit at all for that "community effort"?" let's flip this - should we discredit OP for producing a Q&A that helped thousands? OK, sure - I get the idea. There are some questions from the past that have gained immense popularity and we, in the present, can't possibly compete with them. I have felt the same way myself. But here is the thing - why would we need to compete? The main goal of SO is to be a repository for useful Q&As. So, strive for that. It just happens that some questions are useful for more people. — VLAZ 16 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
What possible problem are you trying to solve with this other than "other people have more reputation than me"? I'll even copy over my comment from the last question (now deleted)since I feel it's still relevant: — VLAZ 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by cglacet
@Trilarion the question exposes two extreme examples, but it also says the downvote ratio is 1 to 7.68. Extremes will always exist. People don't like receiving downvotes, so they wont downvotes others. There is nothing you can do (well maybe not nothing but close). Maybe you can influence some people, but the vast majority will keep on responding emotionally (empathy). We should celebrate the fact that this ratio is low and all agree that downvote is not the answer. That's why I really hope that question is not about how to tweak downvote only. — cglacet 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user4642212
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user4642212
[ Boson ] New comment posted by tripleee
"Lastly, we would like to confirm here that the current iteration of the Thank you Reaction feature will be turned off " - thank you! +1 — tripleee 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@tripleee ...in three weeks time. But it's at least something. — VLAZ just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user4642212
[ Boson ] New comment posted by StoryTeller - Unslander Monica
@TemaniAfif - I imagine the issue here is that using an upvote to show appreciation (and I mean just appreciation for answering, even if the content is bad) makes bad answers harder to deal with. Let's face it, a single +1 make it much harder to curate a bad answer. I dunno if reactions are going to achieve it, but if the presence of a "thanks" button makes people less likely to upvote bad content just to thank the author, I think it's a good initiative. — StoryTeller - Unslander Monica 2 mins ago
 
10:01 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Temani Afif
@StoryTeller-UnslanderMonica we don't need to show appreciation because this not a helpdesk. We don't value user effort or the time spent to write answer. We value the content of posts. If the content is good/usefull/answer the quesiton, you upvote it. If the content is bad/irrelevant/doesn't answer the question, you downvote it. If appreciation is needed, why we don't do it for questions? Asking question is the first step that allow people to provide good answers so we also need thanks to question, let's not forget a thanks to editors for their effort to make posts better, etc .. — Temani Afif 42 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by StoryTeller - Unslander Monica
@TemaniAfif - I'm afraid what "we" think, and what happens in practice are two very different things. Fighting human nature has brought us nowhere in easing the curation of the site. — StoryTeller - Unslander Monica 25 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
@Adriaan and Scratte can you ask your question below, and I will answer there? don't want to have things get lost in the comments up here — Yaakov Ellis ♦ just now
 
10:25 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by nbk
most people think correctly, that it s polite, when somebody helps to sove their problem, that haunted them for some time, but a upvote and accepting the answer is ususally enough, a clicki8ng on a button seems to me redundant, besides that it woill not stop the thanbk comment in anyway — nbk 35 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by nbk
today, neither questions nor answer get more than 5 upvotes or downvotes for that matter — nbk 1 min ago
 
10:53 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Samuel Liew
Comment locked due to [featured] status. Please post feedback below as an answer. For other discussions, we also have The Meta Room or Discord. — Samuel Liew ♦ 35 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tom Carrick
On the point of "removing rep loss on downvote didn't increase downvotes on questions" - I'm not sure most people realise that there is no rep loss on downvotes. I didn't until I read this. I just see the -1 when I downvote something and assume it does that for everything, but I never noticed that downvoting a question doesn't do this until now. I think humans are more likely to notice something happening than the lack of something happening, so maybe the disparity between the two is an issue. — Tom Carrick 59 secs ago
 
11:29 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ABGR
I think I have a 2 cents to add here. Reputation on SO are regarded as a means of bestowing privileges on someone. As you gain more and more reps, SO assumes that you're more and more familiar with the site so you're granted to take certain decision on the part of curation. So I think this question does raise a valid point there. However, I'm not sure how a limit can be imposed on the number of reps gained against a Q/A for that will not make people getting too enthusiastic about editing their old posts. — ABGR 59 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by David Hlavati
They already forget about it. I was helping out for only one single week(before this feature) to see what are the general issues in a specific area, the ppl dealing with. In this one single week I collected 500 points and I think 50-75% of the cases I got nothing, only accept or only one upvote. And sometimes I provided a very detailed answer or I answered additional questions too. I wasn't collecting points for years, and I can say this from experience that it's mostly a waste of time, because users doesn't respect your time you spend helping to them. This feature will make it even worse — David Hlavati 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
@cglacet "the downvote ratio is 1 to 7.68" Maybe that is exactly the ratio of good to bad content that people find (on average) when visiting SO. Alone this ratio is not proof that people don't like to downvote. Maybe people who do not curate but just search for knowledge really find more good content than bad content and just vote accordingly. I certainly don't like to receive downvotes but still roughly 1/3 of all my votes are downvotes. I like to downvote (kind of I think). — Trilarion 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
We messed up with our communications and release plan on this one. We are now adding additional steps to our process leading up to the release of new features and tests, to try to avoid the mistakes made this time around. Moving forward, we are going to be asking the question internally "does this require a public announcement" much earlier in the process than had been done previously, and will be planning and vetting these communications more thoroughly as well. — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
Not claiming here that voting is not a familiar system. Just that being able to personally show your appreciation is something that grants an alternate way of expressing gratitude (as others have noticed, the identities of those who leave reactions are not hidden, unlike votes). The goal here is not to make SO/SE into a social network. But i t is a feature that overlaps with some social networks that may also have a good use here. — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
Trying to say very clearly: voting is important. We need to improve user education on voting. And reactions can also help users to feel appreciated/allow them to show appreciation in ways that voting might not do as well. — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 25 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Nick
I think the third question should be mandatory. I've been around for a bit over 2 years now and I'm still not sure... — Nick 57 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by David Hlavati
@walen then add the thanks function only to the new users, who can't upvote. In 50-75% of the case the don't even bother accepting the answer, or upvoting at all if they have the minimal reputation to do it. !Even! after you answer to their extra questions under the question, which you shouldn't even care about. Point collecting is already a waste of time. One single week was more then enough for me, and I think I was smart not to do it for years, because most of the users doesn't respect your time you spend on helping to them. And this feature wont help either — David Hlavati 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Remy
I appreciate your reply @YaakovEllis, It might have been me wrongly interpreting the text then, as to me it came across as if to say "What we have now is not familiar" — Remy 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
I would not call this an alternative to voting. It is an additional way to interact with the post. Voting is a way of saying if something is useful or not. A reaction is a way of telling the poster: "thanks, this helped me". To many on meta these two are synonymous. From what we have heard, to many others they are not. It is not necessarily a need. The site will exist without it. But it has the potential to let users personally of personally expressing gratitude (as others have noticed, the identities of those who leave reactions are not hidden, unlike votes). — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by cglacet
@Trilarion Yes, you are right, that ratio doesn't prove anything. My remark wasn't related to that ratio, that was just my opinion. That's just based on my personal feelings (on SO) and observations in real life. People do not like to make negative remarks to others, even if that would be beneficial to everyone (including the "target" of the remark). I don't even think it's some kind of hypocrisy like many people think, I really think that's our empathy that often prevent sending negative feedback to strangers. When you know someone it's a bit different, but on SO we interact with strangers. — cglacet 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
@YaakovEllis Trust me, there is no emoji that can show me more appreciation than an upvote can. I have already seen posts being thanked (by people that have sufficient reputation to vote) more times than upvoted and I can only imagine that it must feel extremely frustrating. Why are people thanking more than upvoting? What is wrong with answer that justifies a thanks, but not an upvote? ... — Dalija Prasnikar just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adriaan
@YaakovEllis isn't "thanks, this helped me" synonymous to "+1, this is useful"? — Adriaan 13 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
No insult is intended. If it makes you feel better, most of the time invested in this feature was already put in to making this work on SO for Teams, where it has met a lot of success (and we know that the use cases are different for Teams and the Public Platform). — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by cglacet
@Trilarion I also think it's very cultural so I might totally be wrong because I'm drown in my own culture (like most of us). In France, negative feedback means you failed, so downvotes I think are often perceived as a failure and are therefore not an enjoyable experience. — cglacet 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by cglacet
@Trilarion That would be interesting to poll people on that "What do you do when you receive a downvote?", "How do you feel when you receive a downvote?", "What is your down/up vote ratio?". I'm pretty sure there would be a very high correlation between how people feel and how they vote. — cglacet 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
The fact that we are working on one feature over another doesn't mean that the other features are not ones that we think are important. Guidance for new users on how the site works is something that is definitely one of our goals to achieve. And this feature would not be intended to absolve users from having to invest the time in learning how to use the site properly. However, while all of these are interrelated, we cannot accomplish them simultaneously. And your points about the potential to make things more complicated are on target: this is definitely something that we want to avoid. — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Temani Afif
@YaakovEllis "thanks, this helped me". --> if an answer is helpful then it deserve an upvote or accepted answer. I still don't understand why creating an additional way to interact. Doing this will need us more effort to explain to people when to use the upvote, the downvote, the thanks, the accepted, the comment, etc ... — Temani Afif 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
@DalijaPrasnikar A thanks is personal. An upvote is not. We hope that we can find a way for the two to coexist. And if the data shows that reactions are being used in place of upvotes, this will definitely affect our planning for how/if this can work on the site on a more permanent basis. This may also be an opportunity to improve the education around voting. (It could also be that the reactions are being given by people who would not have voted anyway, and the reaction in this case is not removing upvotes that might have been). — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
Thanks for your point about being a leader and not a follower. As I tried to express above, the goal of moving gratitude out of comments is not the only one here. Also, simply preventing the thank you comments leaves folks without a way to satisfactorily express that feeling. Net neutral or negative. Reactions can potentially give an outlet for that feeling. — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@ABGR while I do agree that rep and privileges shouldn't be directly related, imposing some artificial limitations on rep is not the solution. — VLAZ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter
@YaakovEllis - in all honesty that is a huge assumption to make. Also please note that however problematic "thank you" comments may be, they are more personal than just another button to push. Saying that a bunch of claps on a post is more personal than an upvote or, better yet, an accept is a stretch at best... — Oleg Valter 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Braiam
@YaakovEllis when SO prevented placing +/-1 comments, giving up was a successful metric. The message that is there right now inform the users of what the desired behavior should be. You can still leverage that to tell users "hey, our way of saying thank you is via votes ;)" — Braiam 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Temani Afif
@YaakovEllis A thanks is personal --> this will slowly bring us to the side effect of the facebook like. Now I will be checking who is loving me and who is hating me (who never thanked me) and why the OP didn't say thanks to me (I will be hating them ..). Someone is always thanking me (this guy is good, let me give him some upvotes ..). I thanked someone a lot, I need to stop or he will think that I love him too much ... wait, why that user stopped thanking me, let me ping him to see what's happening, etc etc etc — Temani Afif 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
@OlegValter yes, it is an assumption. That is what we are testing right now. And yes, a comment is more personal than a reaction tagged with your name. But we do need to weigh the benefits of each scenario: a popular post with 50 "thanks, that helped me" comments makes the comments unusable and is not something that we want to support. The same post with a "thank you" reaction and the number 50 next to it might not be as personal, but it is something. And if this can be potentially leveraged into a way to also encourage upvotes that weren't happening, even better. — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
@cglacet I'm sure that nobody likes to get downvotes really. I could go and find the most upvoted persons here, find something to criticize (to err is human) and downvote because of that. It might sting, but it would be nothing compared to getting more often downvotes than upvotes. Only contributing negatively (score-wise) should be a devastating experience. In education for example I would readily vote to abolish grades and focus more on the achievements instead. But this here is not a programming school but a library of knowledge. In order to keep the knowledge you have to throw things away. — Trilarion 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter
@YaakovEllis - please also note that I am not trying to dissuade anyone from their position and do not disagree with the need for testing. I just pointed to the leap in logic in reasoning about why "thank you" comments are posted: there is no direct inference to "people post thank you comments" from "upvotes are impersonal" (and I mean it in a very strict sense - there is no middle term, they can only be correlated). — Oleg Valter 35 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
@cglacet It's personal for sure because your name stands right to contributions and your rep is affected, but on the other hand somebody has to tell the truth at some point and that is often that many contributions are not useful for the knowledge library. Downvotes increase the signal strength. Maybe if all contributions would be community wiki, than it would sting less. Only then we wouldn't know how to distribute rep. But I guess that downvotes on community generated content wouldn't hurt really. I'm thinking about using community wiki on meta from now on. — Trilarion 30 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by bad_coder
Could you please be a candidate for mod? — bad_coder 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adrian Mole
Isn't the "Yearling" badge a requirement to make a candidate eligible? — Adrian Mole 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adrian Mole
Hmm.. Moderating? — Adrian Mole 17 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by philipxy
I know this is nominally about tags, why was my comment saying that this is still a SO question not a meta.SO question deleted? — philipxy 53 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter
@YaakovEllis - just another observation: "net neutral or negative" is also an assumption that needs careful study as you are stating intent as a matter of fact. Also, and I think this is one of the main reasons for the feature to be met so negatively - it assumes that lack of expression of a feeling of a question asker while sidestepping feelings of question answerer. Preemptive note: my strong belief is that assumptions have to be raised from observations, not observations to be made on a basis of assumptions. The fact that reactions can potentially give such an outlet... — Oleg Valter 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martin
Here are some queries which I sometimes use (on the sites which I frequent) in connection with tag management. This query shows when and by whom a tag was added, and this shows removals. (Take this with a grain of salt, since my SQL skills are not great.) — Martin 27 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter
...does not necessarily mean they are a good solution (or any solution for that matter). Also regarding preventing: I understand that this is the response to @Braiam's statement about prevention mechanisms, but I must point out that these mechanisms may be suggestive, gently nudging commenters in the direction of constructive feedback, upvoting when possible and accepting the answer — Oleg Valter 43 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Script47
'We messed up with our communications and release plan on this one.' - I can't tell if this is serious anymore... Hasn't this been the story of SO's life for the past 3 years or more? — Script47 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dwhitz
I will also suggest to remove the "thanks button" for the OP since is useless for him. He just has to upvote the answer or mark it as best answer, thanks is useless in this case. — Dwhitz 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
"The flag queue has been increasing, and has been higher than what it used to be in the past couple of years." Can it maybe be quantified how many of the flags are not handled currently? Or are all handled but just with a longer delay? — Trilarion 7 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andras Deak
I'm just sorry that yet again well-meaning devs like @YaakovEllis have to clean up what's presumably a gross misstep made by management. — Andras Deak 31 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by cglacet
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
@AndrasDeak mistakes happen. We are human. However, we very much try not to lay blame, and rather prefer to try to learn from them for the next time. And while I am a dev on the Public Platform team, in the context of my additional position as Community Advocate, I also want to take an active role in helping to improve our processes and communication for things like this. — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 35 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martin
And here is a query for the posts where the (featured) tag was added a long time after the post was created. — Martin 47 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter
@YaakovEllis - I am starting to feel like answer evangelist :) Scratte's concern, as I understand it (seemingly shared by many others and, personally, me) is that every feature needs a certain amount of resources allocated which could have been placed better in the first place. No one (hopefully) argues that other features are not important are not considered important but that everything has a cost. Of your time, of our time, etc... Even if it was developed for Teams, it still needs someone to post announcements, respond to feedback, do the research, etc - all that I am sure you know of.. — Oleg Valter 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Andras Deak
@YaakovEllis I don't expect anyone in the company to lay blame (we have the community for that). If I were in a position that I had to clean up after coworkers I wouldn't disclose that I'm cleaning up after coworkers. And I agree, mistakes happen, and we are human. But the frequency with which the management's mistakes have been happening for years suggests that they are either superhuman, or just that nothing has changed about sidelining the community. I'm absolutely sure that you (and Shog, and anyone who cares about the community) would have known how this feature would be received. — Andras Deak 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
@OlegValter thanks for your evangelism. And I understand all about the opportunity cost involved in something like this very well (as right now I am typing here instead of in Visual Studio). That said, I hear your concerns and understand the frustration. I know that many of you might have prioritized items for our roadmap differently than has been done. We will try to continue to balance the different concerns and priorities as best we can moving forward. — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
@Lundin 7 candidates for 2 positions sounds still okay. On SO the ratio wasn't so much better in the past, or was it? — Trilarion 10 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TheMaster
@CodyGray I don't think gas is the official name. Wikipedia says it's "commonly referred to gas/as" . The official page also doesn't explicitly state "gas". It states "as- Gnu-Assembler" and There is a single mention of "gas" , when referring to news files. I'd like to make the case that "gas" is much more known as "google-apps-script" than "gnu-assembler"- "much more" as in more questions tagged to refer to apps script by initial posters. I — TheMaster 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter
@YaakovEllis - that was meant as a joke (I hope your comment was as well - it is a bit hard to discern in comment format). To wrap up my previous comment as you responded faster than I finished: ..." we cannot accomplish them simultaneously" is precisely on point, I could not agree with you more. And this exactly what is concerning the most - out of all features that could be developed, venues explored or discussed this was the one deemed worthy to be developed however small the actual time/effort or financial cost may be. This is less about prioritizing and more about not taking that route... — Oleg Valter 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter
...in the first place. That said, thank you for addressing concerns and especially for taking the time to respond to everything - I know how hard it is to even read through everything. Just trying to stress some points where miscommunication might happen resulting in both sides feeling unheard despite best intentions. — Oleg Valter 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ABGR
@VLAZ yup, Also as I noted doing that might make some users less enthusiastic about updating their old posts once it has reached a certain cap. So perhaps another solution can be thought about regarding linking reps with privileges. — ABGR 9 secs ago
 
1:25 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Rounin
@CodyGray - Perhaps I could have explained my concept better above. StackOverflowOverflow (or whatever it would be called) wouldn't be a different site. Just a different domain for "the rest" of Stack Overflow. This would leave StackOverflow as questions of guaranteed quality and answers of guaranteed quality. Which, unless I've misunderstood, is what Stack Overflow wants to be. — Rounin 24 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by akuzminykh
I think if this feature is shipped then the thanks have to involve an automatic upvote. When someone thinks an answer helped him and the person wants to say thanks, it implicitly was useful and therefore worth an upvote. If someone thinks an answer is useful (from a neutral perspective) but the person doesn't feel like it helps him (subjective), the post can be just normally upvoted. I think this would reflect better the character of a post and will reduce complexity of the system and make it more robust. Without, thanks would add a weird facette to the QA character of SO + complexity. — akuzminykh 10 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Rounin
@snakecharmerb - It wouldn't be possible to post a question or an answer to the second-class site. Posts could only ever be transferred there (and, if they were ever cleaned up enough and achieved a positive vote total, transferred back again). — Rounin 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Rounin
You wouldn't even need a separate domain. A purpose-built subdomain would do it: overflow.stackoverflow.com. — Rounin 34 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Rounin
@snakecharmerb - It wouldn't be possible for anyone to post questions or answers to the second-class site. Posts could only ever be transferred there (and, if they were ever cleaned up enough and achieved a positive vote total, transferred back again). You wouldn't even need a separate domain. A purpose-built subdomain would do it: overflow.stackoverflow.com. — Rounin 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adriaan
Can't this be determined without this feature as well? Just grab vote totals from the last, say, 60 days or so, to find out whether the old, accepted answer is progressively downvoted, and then new answer progressively upvoted? I do see the merit in testing for this, to weed out older, no longer recommended solutions, but not how the new "thanks" feature would be of more use than simple up/down votes — Adriaan 47 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by DavidPostill
@YaakovEllis I am completely against this feature for the same reasons as many other have expressed, but if you are going to implement something like this why did you not consider the feelings of people who want to signify "no thanks". They will feel even more left out now :) — DavidPostill 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Temani Afif
@akuzminykh ^ TL;DR from what you said: we only need the upvote and the thanks is useless (since it will automatically involve the upvote and we no more need user to say thanks) — Temani Afif 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Holger
@OlegValter development resources are irrelevant to the site owners. We’re talking about people who drop an already working new navigation in favor of an ominous Navigation 3.0, making every spent effort wasted for no good reasons. Such people surely also can afford developing an unneeded “thank you” feature while there’s a long queue of real problems to fix. Why not? — Holger 59 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adriaan
Then how would "thanks" get around positional bias? The icon is placed almost at the same location as the voting arrows. — Adriaan 50 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by akuzminykh
@TemaniAfif I think one great problem of the whole thing is that imbalances between thanks and votes will occur. When someone has many thanks but not upvotes, the person will feel bad for not gaining reputation. When someone has many upvotes but no thanks, the person may feel confused. There may be even people who only use thanks on purpose to not give people reputation for their work. I think there is potential for toxicity in this feature. Therefore, I think my "solution" adds robustness agains those problems to some degree. I also don't like the feature but I can see the character it adds. — akuzminykh 54 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adriaan
@akuzminykh couple of things though: 1) the upvote would no longer be anonymous, 2) that'd skew the distribution towards upvotes, as there are now 2 ways to upvote and just 1 to downvote, 3) you should be able to "upvote" only once, not twice, i.e. upvoting, than thanking should not incur the associated upvote, nor should you be able to upvote once you have thanked (colour the arrow already orange or something) — Adriaan 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by cs95
@Adriaan Sometimes reactions and votes tell different stories. On that question the accepted answer still continues to receive scores of upvotes daily despite warnings from comments. That is purely positioning bias. — cs95 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by DavidPostill
@nbk That is clearly untrue (although it might be correct on this site). I have a question on meta.se that repcapped and is still receiving up votes 6 weeks later... — DavidPostill 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by DavidG
@YaakovEllis Surely the "no blame" thing (which I'm fully on board with) becomes meaningless if past mistakes don't provide learning to prevent them happening again. To use Nick's example in the tweet you linked, allowing a dev to make a mistake like that is great, but if they do it every couple of weeks, then there's a far deeper issue. — DavidG 18 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by akuzminykh
@TemaniAfif By "complexity" I mean the points you've mentioned. We'll have to put time into explaining and explaining ... to new users what to use when. When thanks just includes an upvote, it becomes a no-brainer. But I totally agree that this will make the feature itself seem extremely obsolete. Maybe someone else knows a way ... But yeah, the feature just as it is tested right now is not good at all IMO. Hopefully, this makes my points a bit clearer ... — akuzminykh 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by cs95
@Adriaan you got me, while reactions are not immune to bias I like to think they're less affected. I hope Company takes a look. — cs95 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
@bad_coder I really appreciate the amount of trust you put in me. But I don't see that happening for two reasons. First, long term problem, is that I don't have enough time to dedicate myself to moderating tasks (besides, few minutes here and there while my code is compiling) and second, short (probably) term problem, is that I am not confident I would be able to answer above question in satisfactory manner ;) — Dalija Prasnikar 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Temani Afif
and I forget another case: when someone thanked me and later undo his thanks. I will be hating him a lot and I will also undo all my thanks to him (probably some upvotes too, he doesn't deserve them, impolite guy ..) — Temani Afif 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Remy
A new sorting option besides "Votes, active, oldest" being "Most appreciated" or something along those lines might work for that I guess? — Remy 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by LinkBerest
@Trilarion SO usually has 11-12 candidates (with several >15 canidate score) on EE there were only 3 canidates with over 15 score. So it was a choice of 3 for 2 positions and likely they will pull a "we need the runner up" later in the year to avoid a 2nd election — LinkBerest 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adriaan
@Remy sounds like the same feature as votes; useful for short-term gain (since it sort of resets the votes to a flat baseline of 0), and pointless in 5 years, when answers with 2701 "thanks" on them are no longer recommended. — Adriaan 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by cs95
@Remy I could see "recommended" replacing "oldest" as a potential new sort option. I can't imagine why anyone would want to sort by oldest. Even sorting by "newest" would make more sense, although still not as useful. — cs95 1 min ago
 
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