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12:41 AM
oh... i see that i do have the master branch but release/phalcon.c is not like the stuff in dev.. is that right?
oh... i guess i just do the phpize thing in dev
 
 
2 hours later…
user50049
2:51 AM
That's weird, the dev tools installer script just goes into an endless loop on Debian 6. Each time you run it, it thinks it's not installed, creates new symlinks in the repo but puts nothing in /usr/bin. May simplify this and send a pull request.
 
user50049
I'm making a VM image for Xen (or basically anything else) pre-loaded with Phalcon for my own tinkering convenience, I'll probably put it up for download when I'm done with it, or a script to turn a debootsrapped debian 6 install into something up and running with hello world
 
user50049
Not quite sure why /usr/bin/phalcon isn't just generated as a here-doc by the installer so it can just export the env variables needed and then call phalcon.php in the proper place?
 
3:10 AM
hi, tim, may i pick your brain a bit?
do you guys have anything going for rest?
 
user50049
3:33 AM
@JasonRice I'm pretty much in the same spot you are with it ... basically, it gets my 'me time' on Sundays. My first app is going to be a network monitor, which is mostly an exercise to see if I can get redis to be just another part of the framework
 
4:33 AM
@TimPost the linux installer it's better than the mac one, it makes all the work in a single command: docs.phalconphp.com/en/0.5.0/reference/linuxtools.html
 
user50049
@twistedxtra That's the one I'm using. Odd
 
ah, maybe it have a problem...
 
user50049
@twistedxtra I'm going to look at it closely after work today. Somehow PTOOLSPATH ended up being _ in check_install()
 
user50049
4:51 AM
My /usr/bin/phalcon looks like this now:
 
user50049
#!/bin/bash

export PTOOLSPATH=/usr/src/phalcon-devtools/
php "$PTOOLSPATH/phalcon.php" $*
 
user50049
Presumably, the installer could just generate that from a here-doc? E.g:
 
yep, but in the phalcon-devtools script there is an installer
 
user50049
cat << EOF > /usr/bin/phalcon
export PTOOLSPATH=$PTOOLSPATH
php "\$PTOOLSPATH/phalcon.php \$*"
EOF
 
ah
yes
 
user50049
4:54 AM
Yes, that's what I'm talking about.
 
user50049
That makes it much simpler. Or, perhaps PTOOLSPATH can just be in /etc/default/phalcon or something
 
fine, we need to work on devtools next days upgrading it to 0.5.0
it's an oportunity to improve the installer
 
how are tasks being tracked? if no one is on the rest thing, then i could take a stab at it
 
thanks!, i guy from poland told us on the group, he want to start migrating it, but i'm not sure if he already start working on that
a guy*
 
user50049
@twistedxtra Thinking about it, it might make sense to just base the install in $HOME/bin and be done with it, and check to ensure .bashrc sees that in the path.
 
5:07 AM
yes
 
user50049
Take root out of the equation completely.
 
or just look at $PATH
 
user50049
I'm trying to come up with a way to make it easy for shared hosts to install. Having C-Panel/WHM build Phalcon as part of PHP 5.3+ is possible by just dropping a small module into easyapache.
 
user50049
Well, I say just .. unfortunately the documentation for that is just sparse perldoc
 
but it doesn't explains how to add another extensions
 
user50049
5:25 AM
@twistedxtra You basically write a tiny perl module that describes what it is, and how it should be built (be it an apache or PHP module)
 
hey @JasonRice, you can now post on the google group
@TimPost cool, that would be fine, a lot of people see that be an php extension is a problem, specially on shared hostings
 
@twistedxtra thanks
 
user50049
@twistedxtra You drop a perl module in /var/cpanel/easy/apache/custom_opt_mods/Cpanel/Easy/PHP5 , an example being one that adjusts the configure options for gd:
 
user50049
package Cpanel::Easy::PHP5::GDJapaneseJISMap;

our $easyconfig = {
    'name'      => 'GD w/ JIS-mapped Japanese Font Support',
    'version'   => '$Rev: 4206 $',
    'depends'   => { 'optmods' => { 'Cpanel::Easy::PHP5::GD' => 1, }, },
    'implies'   => { 'Cpanel::Easy::PHP5::GD' => 1, },
    'step' => {
        '0' => {
            'name'    => 'to config options',
            'command' => sub {
                my ($self) = @_;
                $self->add_to_configure({'--enable-gd-jis-conv' => ''});
 
user50049
This just enables options to GD not enabled by default. But there is a way to have it fetch a tarball, unpack and build.
 
user50049
5:34 AM
Once in place, people just see Phalcon as an option that can be checked in Web Host Manager when building PHP.
 
user50049
I'm really interested in getting that working because most of my dev servers have cpanel installed.
 
user50049
I'll put what I'm sure of together and gist it later when I'm done with work
 
user50049
Well, back to invoice generation and billing hell I go.
 
lol
good luck with that
 
user50049
I don't understand how people like working on e-commerce. I just do not understand that insanity.
 
5:45 AM
masochism? haha
 
 
9 hours later…
3:04 PM
Hello all
 
user50049
'Allo @NikolaosDimopoulos :)
 
user50049
I'm actually just now finishing up at my day job
 
user50049
err, day and night job
 
I still have another 7 hours to go :)
or so
Where do you live Tim?
Asia?
Day and night? Wow. you've been keeping busy :)
 
user50049
3:09 PM
I live in The Philippines
 
Oh cool!
<- WV, USA
 
user50049
<- Formerly Baltimore MD
 
Oh! Ravens fan then?
 
user50049
(I'm an Expat)
 
I am originally from Greece
 
user50049
3:10 PM
Well, once the colts left in the middle of the night
 
Yeah
I read about that
 
user50049
I like baseball more that football though
 
I left Greece in 95 went to England, moved to Austria in 04, back to Greece in 05, Cyprus and then US in 06
Permanently ever since
And a Skins fan
More though a Formula 1 fan than anything else
 
user50049
I've been in The Philippines for .. 8 years now? 9? I lost count
 
user50049
REDSKINS!!!!!!!!!
 
3:12 PM
Yep yep! Redskins!
Although they sucked every since I started supporting them... lol
 
user50049
For a while, Baltimore had the Stars (different league), they were awesome. Going to the minors games was a lot of fun
 
I've never been to any game
Other than 3 Grand Prix, nothing else sports wise
 
user50049
I stopped going when it got really expensive.
 
user50049
It's like $9 for nachos now.
 
My wife went to a Skins game last year
and she was telling me something like that
plus the ticket, the parking...
insane
Got a question for you
 
user50049
3:15 PM
A family of 3+ could not afford to go to a game and eat / drink. That's a shame
 
Oh yea for sure
Baseball is much more afforable
or TV
 
user50049
I just grab the highlights
 
user50049
@NikolaosDimopoulos What's up?
 
sec checking the FAQ first hahaha
ok figured it out
Yesterday I had > 100 reputation
and this morning it is 98
So I was wondering what happened
and then I found it
 
user50049
You got a down vote or something got deleted.
 
3:19 PM
There was a question that I answered that got upvotes but for some reason the question was removed
yeah
I don't know why but that question got -55
 
user50049
Let me have a peek
 
It's not a big deal Tim, I am not worried about it. But it was a "what happened" moment :)
 
user50049
It was this one .. high rep users cast sufficient delete votes.
 
well I get a 404 on it but I know what you mean
 
user50049
Your answer was awesome, the question was crap
 
3:21 PM
Why is that though? You might have the clan effect this way
i.e. say 10-20 of us that have high reputation might boycott or downvote something that we do not like
no?
 
user50049
People tend to use really .. smelly ... questions as a springboard for even worse ones. The one thing we have going for us is the quality of the stuff we serve
 
For me SO is the first and last resort in tech stuff
and I know I can ask a question if I cannot find it
 
user50049
Well the system is awesome too .. but if you hit a result on SO in google, it should be game over
 
user50049
That particular question just wasn't worth keeping around. Deleting it also means deleting the answers it received.
 
For the better part if I google something SO will come in the top 5 for sure
Yeah I got that :)
 
user50049
3:25 PM
A year ago you would not have noticed it. Recent changes make rep update in real time instead of relying on cache
 
The issue I see though is still the clan effect. A group of people downvoting something they do not like or agree. How does SO protect itself from it? Do mods check the downvoted questions?
 
user50049
When logged in, go to this page to see a precise audit of how your score is calculated.
 
user50049
If flagged, we do. But I would have closed that myself.
 
Reputation can be very addictive
 
user50049
It's not really a question ... that's 'I spent five minutes researching this, can you just tell me how to do it? I haven't tried anything'
 
3:27 PM
Just like the +1 in G+ or the Like in FB
lol
 
user50049
Reputation is neat because it unlocks features. But it's seldom an accurate gauge of any individual's skill.
 
user50049
Once I hit 10k I basically stopped answering stuff and just focused on maintaining the site. The 7k I got since then has been from answers I wrote a long time ago, mostly.
 
I spent an hour yesterday on the site trying to find stuff to answer
stuff that I knew and not blabber
it is difficult
 
user50049
It has that effect.
 
by the time you type the question, there are already answers :D :D
and better ones than mine I have to admit so I didn't answer
 
user50049
3:30 PM
38
A: What is the proper way to approach SO as someone totally new to programming?

Tim PostThe amazing thing about the question box on Stack Overflow is that it's magic. That's right, it's magic. It can help you answer your question before you even submit it. I've probably not asked more questions on Stack Overflow after typing them than I've actually asked. When I found questions that...

 
no point really to offer a solution that is not as good or better than the ones already offered
 
user50049
@NikolaosDimopoulos Exactly, that's why I don't have 100k+ rep :)
 
user50049
Rep Whore is a common term in our community
 
LOL
I have been in the "Forum" business for years
 
user50049
3:32 PM
I hate forums.
 
Built and maintained forums for many communities
and the reply whore is the common term there :)
 
user50049
Just give me what I need without having to wade through 17 pages of crap to find it
 
yep
Well that is the reason Google became so successful
 
user50049
Why are there 17 pages of crap? because people get rewarded in 'rank' for useless posts.
 
The result that you want should be at the top of the list
you don't have to search a lot to find it
In forums you tend to have that effect i.e. search a lot
and search engines on forums mostly suck
with just a few exceptions
 
user50049
3:33 PM
me too .. me too .. oh thanks that did it for me .. and here I am saying WHAT? WHAT DID IT FOR YOU?
 
HAHAHAHAHA!
 
user50049
God DAMN you user123456 why did you not QUOTE???!!!
 
user50049
Meh.
 
I have a discussion forum about hair
long hair
over 9M posts, >130 users
I have seen what you just described first hand!
 
user50049
They're great for easy revenue. They suck for mining useful information.
 
3:37 PM
agree
 
user50049
Well, I'm going to put some energy into the devtools and making sure phalcon can build without much effort on cpanel servers (assuming 5.3, the mass amounts of Joomla installs are still blocking that in a way that is so terrifying I won't even talk about it)
 
I have a love/hate relationship with cPanel
 
user50049
so do I.
 
I used to own Vertexhost.com so it was really good and bad at the same time from an admin point of view
 
user50049
It gets in my way 49% of the time. I love it 51% of the time.
 
user50049
3:39 PM
and I really, really really hate perl.
 
Right now I am full VPS custom install
I use Linode.com
everything through the command line
 
user50049
I work for a web host at my day job
 
not even bothering with email - I have google to handle that
 
user50049
brb, I need to hit an ATM
 
user50049
3:58 PM
Paypal transfers money slower than old people have sex.
 
user50049
I'm just waiting for the e-mail to say "The funds should hit your bank account sometime in 2016"
 
That is what happens if you have a monopoly in money transfers
kinda of a monopoly that is
 
user50049
They may soon be regulated like a bank since they are one for all intensive purposes.
 
Yeah
Thus far they have avoided that
And there are soooo many horror stories with them
kinda makes you wonder...
 
user50049
4:04 PM
It would mean no more lengthy 'freezes' either term the account and give the holder their cash or don't.
 
user50049
@NikolaosDimopoulos I caught this one via twitter today, but take it with salt. The guy was technically pre-selling.
 
I recall a similar case. I am not sure if this is the same person
but something like that happened before
with no reason, accounts would freeze all of a sudden
 
user50049
There have been about a dozen very high profile ones like that which were actually legit people trying to do business.
 
user50049
Given the amount of users they have and money they aggregate, they have a rather low error rate
 
I guess we have to live with them
In my big forum, we now have google checkout and paypal
slowly moving away from paypal
 
user50049
4:27 PM
I've only had one major problem with them. When I owned my own hosting company, a ROKSO spammer showed up after ordering 15 servers. I termed him, he filed chargebacks.
 
user50049
It took two months to get my money back.
 
user50049
I also had a man on the inside, a friend of mine worked in their security department
 
user50049
Ironically, the spammer was paypal phishing.
 
user50049
No good deed goes unpunished I suppose.
 
Yep
But you have to wonder what would have happened if you didn't know that friend of yours and how much he helped the situation
 
user50049
4:30 PM
When I told them that, they slapped me and said "This is strictly against our TOS"
 
user50049
That's when I cradled my head in my hands and then went looking for his email
 
user50049
BTW, Their call center is here in PH, Cebu.
 
I am not surprised
many companies outsource call centers in Asia
I had interesting discussions with Indian speaking people (well accents that is) when I wanted support for my Dell notebook
Basically I got a Dell and installed Linux on it
so I called them to refund me the money spent for the Windows license
and they did not want to hear about it despite the fact that it is there when you switch the computer on: if you don't agree with the TOS you can return the software back for a refund
Eventually I spoke to a friend of a friend who escalated it and got a call back from the higher ups
 
user50049
They follow a script.
 
user50049
4:34 PM
And they are penalized for thinking.
 
and they still refused to acknowledge this but they offered a 100 dollar gift card to compensate me
ridiculous
most people don't even know that you can get a refund for software you paid for but don't want/use
 
user50049
Ah yes, bribe 100 from inventory first, that only costs us 20
 
user50049
Here, most laptops come with freeDOS so you can make sure they boot
 
user50049
If you want windows, you buy it
 
4:36 PM
freeDOS awesome!
 
user50049
if you want Linux, they usually have a few installers available on the wifi network
 
user50049
I like Debian. I don't mind Ubuntu, Unity is bat s*** crazy though
 
I agree
I use Mint
primarily because of unity
 
user50049
Mint is a nice distro
 
I installed CentOS though in another partition and am playing with it at the moment
 
user50049
4:38 PM
CentOS is a fine OS if you want a binary clone of RHEL.
 
There are a few things that I love about CentOS.
 
user50049
My primary language is C, I want modern versions of libraries.
 
The core is that a friend of mine created a high performance repo for nginx, php and mariadb
Those packages outperform the stock ones 3 or 4 times
 
user50049
Fedora is not bad at all
 
user50049
You can usually get what you want without adding and trusting some repo you read about in a blog
 
4:40 PM
Well in my case I personally know the guy so there is no trust issue there :)
 
user50049
I just prefer aptitude. And I like how debian does networking, so that's what I use.
 
user50049
That's actually my path to upgrade for Phalcon. Once it slows down, I just start doing nightly builds and then trigger a release when they have something I want. The servers I have using it just 'get it' in nightly updates.
 
Yeah I am very much in favor of nightly builds too
At the moment I have a "tests" branch in the cpahlcon project where I added a crapload of PHP based tests in different components. And as I go along I test anything I can think of in an effort to iron out bugs
I found some on the Tag element which have been addressed or will be
 
5:06 PM
hi
hey @NikolaosDimopoulos, it's fine to say: let's start the party! Phalcon 0.5.0 is finally here!
 
@twistedxtra Yep yep
 
user50049
5:33 PM
What is the official twitter handle of the project?
 
@phalconphp
 
6:19 PM
Rack Lin is awesome
The new addition for the CLI tools is really cool
 
oh yes!
although I am concerned about include new features in the development branch being so soon to be launched
 
6:35 PM
Well it is growing pains at the moment
I would suggest the creation of a develop branch
So that any development happens there
 
yep, i want to create it after release 0.5.0
 
when the feature is tested in the develop and it works, it gets pushed in the 0.5.0 branch
This way you can see that everything works with that version.
If all is well, then you merge it into the master which always contains the latest stable version
I need to write some guidelines for git etc.
for instance what we have been discussing about creating tests with _T123 in the end
where 123 is the Git issue number
This way everyone is on the same page
 
maybe would be fine to start a thead in the group to talk about that
 
That works too
 
 
4 hours later…
10:22 PM
Talk to you later all
Have a nice evening
 

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