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2:38 AM
@webarto "get a life" YOU get a life.
You are encouraging someone who was trolling my correct answer because he had a "bad day".
@DavidRodríguez-dribeas We don't need 2 phase lookup.
I said that a long time ago.
The answer is a proof that 2 phase name lookup has unavoidable surprising consequences.
@DavidRodríguez-dribeas "I have avoided telling him what the small issue in his answer is" IOW, you were trolling.
@DavidRodríguez-dribeas "that the requirement of two phase lookup forces the behavior (how is that not because the standard says so?)." Yes, it is because the standard says so.
At the end, it always is "because the standard says so."
Sometimes, the answer is:
because .... because ... because the standard says so.
Sometime it's just: because the standard says so.
There is no intermediate reason.
Sometimes the standard could be modified without affecting anything else.
OTOH, going back to "template are just macros" times could change the meaning of many programs.
You are obviously not very good at this.
When you tried to give me a taste of my own medicine, you end-up disproving my statements about C++ with D and a C++ compiler known for its brokenness in the very area we were discussing.
Instead of "giving me a taste of my own medicine", you made a fool of yourself.
@DavidRodríguez-dribeas That IS NOT what you wrote at all.
You are changing history here.
You used two pathetic counter examples.
Either way, you were inept.
@DavidRodríguez-dribeas "Regarding rep. I have enough that he could spend his whole reputation downvoting me, and I would still have more than enough to access all of the tools." So you really have a personal issue with me.
You just wanted to attack me.
It was so lame, you are trying now to hide what happened.
@DavidRodríguez-dribeas I soooooo obviously deal with both.
I don't want to continue on personal matters.
But I cannot accept that people attack me because just they had a bad day.
Also I cannot accept that you try to change history.
We both know what happened.
 
3:06 AM
I don't really want to go on with this. You are wrong in many of the accounts that you are just pointing out here, but I won't try to spend time in discussing them. Have a good day.
@curiousguy This is the one thing I won't leave as is: I don't lie. I make mistakes, but I don't lie.
 
3:43 AM
@curiousguy Once again, you failed to understand what was being said: Even if you decided to spend all your reputation in down voting my answers, it would not affect me. How you get from there to have something personal, I don't get it. But I do not have anything personal (with you in particular nor with anyone else in here)
 
4:33 AM
@DavidRodríguez-dribeas Once again, you manage to miss the point.
Me spending my reputation downvoting your answer is silly hypothesis.
It is irrelevant.
It is an implied personal attack on me.
Why would I downvote all you answers?
Do you assume that someone was assuming that all your answers deserve to be downvoted?
Of course it's personal.
@DavidRodríguez-dribeas No I am not.
You made a fool of yourself in the previous discussions.
You could have tried to make an apology for allegedly trolling me, but you didn't.
@DavidRodríguez-dribeas OK
You made mistake regarding my attitude.
You accused me of something I never did.
You made mistake regarding your attitude.
You claimed you wrote something when in fact you wrote something else.
You made a mistaking claiming my attitude was problematic, when actually your attitude was.
You cannot remember what you wrote in recent discussion.
Explaining you things looks like a waste of time.
 
 
3 hours later…
7:53 AM
@curiousguy apparently explaining things to anyone looks like a waste of time to you. ever stop to think about the common denominator? how you can't get your point across to them...? other people don't seem to have a problem doing so.
you may want to learn to talk to people.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:08 AM
@cHao That's a pretty ridiculous statement.
See how many comments I made.
See all my explanations.
It is not my fault when someone had "a bad day".
I few people are not paying attention.
Many people understand my comments.
Many people take my comments positively.
If I believed that explaining things to anyone is a waste of time, I certainly would not even try.
I have been told that I made too many comments.
I behave so because I try to explain things.
Of course why I have to repeat the exact same thing several time, in the same conversation, at some point I conclude that it is a waste of time.
@cHao "other people don't seem to have a problem doing so." Others, who?
@cHao "apparently explaining things to anyone looks like a waste of time to you." Maybe you think I am masochist.
I am not.
 
 
7 hours later…
4:01 PM
@curiousguy the majority of the planet. it's not that hard to get a point across, unless either (a) you are so out there that people literally can't understand you without resorting to hallucinogens... or (b) you just suck at talking with people.
in this case it seems to be a bit of both. the attitude doesn't help, but you apparently don't know what the word "proof" means. or what you've "proven".
 
4:16 PM
even if you somehow "prove" "that's how it has to be", and someone provides hard evidence (in this case, in the form of counter-examples) that it doesn't... then your "proof" is invalid. reality wins, no matter how much you try to ignore the counter-arguments. if you want to say the C++ committee requires it to be that way, say that. (it helps if you mention ISO 14882.) but of course, that means conceding david's point that the decision is arbitrary.
 
@cHao I don't know what a proof is.
Fascinating, really.
I have read "interesting" stuff, but this one beats them all.
Please, explain me what "proof" means.
@cHao I did say what I meant.
Why would have mention "ISO 14882"???
What are you talking about?
If you are even talking about something specific.
If you want to make a point, please do.
For the moment, your are not "getting the point across".
Maybe, you just suck at talking with people.
BTW, it's quite funny that you don't apply your interesting remarks to some other people.
@cHao "david's point that the decision is arbitrary." which decision?
In case you haven't followed, we don't have a disagreement on that point.
Maybe you "suck" at following debates.
That would explain your delusional feeling that I suck at explaining things.
When in fact the conclusion (just as every time), is that I was right since the beginning.
It's boring in a way.
@cHao In case you haven't notice, the whole discussion here was not about what real implementations do.
But you really have no idea what the subject matter is, do you?
You really "suck" at reading.
And BTW, I did not "try to ignore the counter-arguments."
In fact, I mentioned the counter examples several times.
They were so funny, really...
OK, enough now...
 
4:39 PM
@curiousguy "proof" is the process (or result) of proceeding from accepted definitions to reach a logically inescapable argument. if, at any point in the process, reality conflicts with the definitions, then the "proof" is invalid inasmuch as it attempts to explain reality.
it can be used to explain the system that makes those definitions (in this case standard c++), but is useless outside of that.
@curiousguy as for ISO 14882...seriously? the c++ standard? you've never heard of it?
 
5:00 PM
@cHao What are you talking about, again?
Why on earth should I write "ISO 14882"?
 
s/mention/reference/
 
@cHao So you really have no idea what this was all about?
It was about the C++ language.
As defined by the standard.
(And also implemented by most compilers.)
So now I have to "reference ISO 14882".
I have no idea what exactly I am supposed to reference in "ISO 14882".
But it's fun.
 
the definitions and rules that made your point logically inescapable. at least, if you dare to call it a "proof".
 
So, you want me to go back and explain it to you?
 
and if you decide to call it a "proof" of anything other than standard c++, realize that it's invalid. that includes using it to explain the impossibility of doing anything not defined by iso 14882.
 
5:06 PM
@cHao The subject matter happens to be C++.
It was never something else.
That is the very reason I was making fun of the two counter examples.
Really, do you need me to explain to you the argument or not?
 
"There is a reason beside "the standard says so": cause of way name binding in templates works." Name binding in templates works as it does entirely because the standard says so. There is no other reason.
 
@cHao Great revelation.
The C++ language is defined by the C++ standard.
We were waiting for you to discover that.
I don't know I should laugh.
Or cry.
OK, it was funny for a few minutes.
If you anything relevant to say, just say it.
I am done here.
 
you're the one who said there was some reason outside the standard. there isn't.
you. were. wrong.
 
@cHao You really suck at this.
 
and being arrogant and condescending does not hide that fact. in fact, it highlights it.
 
5:17 PM
You had no idea what the point of the whole discussion was.
 
apparently you didn't either. cause you kept arguing the point.
 
I don't even know why your are here if you are not even interested in the subject matter.
@cHao I. Was. Right.
 
i'm here cause you got flagged for being an ass again.
and i came to see what the fuss was about.
 
So funny you believed I should mention ISO 14....
This was about the design of a programming language.
I am not trying to explain that to you.
Just in case, someone else reads this and wonder: it was all about possible language designs.
There was not any question about what the std prescribe.
The question was only : what else could have been decided?
It's sooooo over you head.
To use, it's: the law or against the law.
The reasons for things, you have no idea what it is.
At the end, it isn't even funny.
It's pathetic.
@cHao No, you are here to troll me.
Goodbye.
 
i dunno...that point where you tried to recharacterize the whole argument after having been shown wrong, that's pretty amusing i think.
oh, and how you lash out rather than saying those 3 simple words...
it seems you like being trolled...or are a troll yourself. how many other people have you gotten into these long arguments with, and it always ends up with you calling people names, generally being an arrogant ass, and arbitrarily declaring yourself the "winner"?
guess what. it doesn't work that way.
 
5:45 PM
@curiousguy so is it about c++, or about language design? pick one. if it's about c++, say so and quit trying to make claims outside outside the standard. if it's about language design, then any definitions made by c++ are out of scope, and any general proof based on them is invalid.
 
@cHao "so is it about c++, or about language design?"
Both.
 
then you're at least half wrong all around.
you don't get to have it both ways.
 
Given that you are 100 % wrong on everything you tried to say...
It was a question about the DESIGN OF C++.
The Design.
Of C++.
Do I have to sing it to you?
 
which makes it c++.
 
It certainly was not a question about D.
Which is why I was making fun of the D counter example.
@cHao I win the argument every single time.
It's boring but it's true.
I am a boring person.
 
5:49 PM
the D counter example was to counter your claims about how it has to be a certain way. in standard c++, you'd be right. anywhere else, you're wrong.
 
@cHao The D counter example was silly.
And the author of this counter example changed his claim.
He had to back up.
@cHao You have no idea what my statement is.
If you did, you would be able to write it here.
But you don't.
 
@curiousguy show me where he changed his claim. cause it doesn't seem to be here, unless you're reading something different than i am. in fact, he made it a few times (you do know this entire chat is logged all the way back to the beginning, right?), and hasn't retracted it anywhere i've seen
> There is a reason beside "the standard says so": cause of way name binding in templates works.
that is the statement people seem to be getting on you about.
the first part of that statement explicitly says there's some reason that's not defined by c++. which is clearly wrong, as there's no problem doing it in some other language (which is why the D counterexample makes sense).
and VS is evidence that it could be done in C++ as well. (although it's not standard, the fact remains that that's entirely because the standard says it isn't done that way. there's no technical reason.)
 
6:12 PM
@cHao I have no time to do that.
You can try to find it.
 
@curiousguy you mean, you can't.
 
@cHao I mean, I don't care about your trolling.
Some part of the exchange was delete by a mod.
 
i have tried to find it, and it's not there.
 
So maybe there is no log.
Maybe it's gone.
Ask other participants if you care.
The retracted claim was:
The D language has template, just like C++, has 2 phase, just like C++.
 
@curiousguy convenient, huh.
 
6:14 PM
@cHao I don't know what you are trying to say.
You are trying to express stuff, but it does not work.
 
i'm trying to say that you claim, without evidence, that some claim was retracted.
 
Maybe you suck at proofs.
@cHao This is your problem.
Not mine.
I don't know why you are even interested in that.
 
no, it's yours. you wanted to try to use it as evidence of something...it's on you to prove it ever existed in the first place.
 
I win is all.
@cHao I don't care.
 
sorry, no. you lose.
 
6:15 PM
I win the argument, as always, is all.
If only, things were different...
 
nope. you've lost on several counts now.
 
@cHao No. You loose.
 
considering i wasn't even in this, i can't lose. :)
 

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