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7:33 PM
This room was placed in timeout for 33 minutes; 30 minutes until start of meeting.
 
8:00 PM
Hello everyone, and welcome to SOCVR's 5th room meeting. Intros will be short this time, so we'll unlock the room soon.
General reminder: please be nice to each other. No biting, no name calling, and no unauthorized plopping while the event is in progress.
Please keep the conversation on topic, and the no one-box rule applies here. Please use stars sparingly.
The room will be in timeout for 2 minutes for each topic when we feel that there is nothing more to add to the conversation. The RO's will write up a proper conclusion to the room information repo at this time.
The list of what we'll be talking about can be found here. We've got 5 topics, so let's shoot for 10 minutes per issue.
room mode changed to Public: anyone may enter and talk
First issue: How do we handle motivated users with poor English skills? source
(please use this timeout time to formulate your responses, you'll be able to talk when the timeout expires)
 
We are not ELL.se and with that this topic is done
 
Seconded.
 
SO is an english speaking site, we have to abide by that rule.
 
Yeep, some typo ok : ),, but better to direct users to sister site
 
So no one had anything to say on that? Or did I not see a time out... or is my connection wonky?
 
8:08 PM
this site is english so i expect every OP to have some english speaking skills
 
user3956566
I agree follow SE guidelines
 
Put another way, it is up to each user to decide for themselves if they feel capable of defending their moderation actions, if needed. There's no much we can do.
 
@JonClements mods and RO's don't see timeouts
 
Proper English should not be the barrier. Though poor English might hamper, We should not expect impeccable English from the users
 
@JonClements The timeout expired when rene answered.
 
8:09 PM
Agreed with all of the above, really.
 
The problem though is that there have been users whose English is not so good and when they leave comments they are difficult to understand.
 
I'm not sure we can do anything effectual
 
everyone should be able to post now. If not refresh the page
 
user3956566
I think it should be dictated by the BE NICE policy
 
@BhargavRao At the same time, if someone's poor English gets in the way of moderation... then we shouldn't let it do that.
 
8:09 PM
We can give them links to the language specific clones maybe. Otherwise edit if possible.
 
If the user's English is too unclear, Then we can't help.
 
If we can't understand their English, there's nothing we can do to help. No amount of commenting will make anything better.
 
@Undo my point with that was that they can't defend their CV choice on meta for instance
 
^^ that
 
user3956566
Yes there is a limit, if someone cannot speak English, there is a limit on helping someone.
 
8:10 PM
^^ that
 
@Undo Yes, Totally agree there. There must be a point below which we cannot help.
 
@Adriaan Lots of people can't/don't do that, though. It's only different because this is a big organized room.
 
@Adriaan These users should be encouraged to select a canned close reason then, and not "Other".
 
@Yvette Aggreed
 
Do we really have this problem?
 
8:11 PM
^ That what I am thinking. So nothing to say really.
 
I don't think so
 
@PetterFriberg I've seen it before. Not recently, though
 
I think we've got this one covered. Move on to the next topic?
 
@PetterFriberg It occurred once somewhat recently
 
@Undo sure, that's natural. The user I encountered this with, though, used comments to say a question is too broad/unclear/needs code or what have you, and I had to take a minute or so to actually understand what they were asking from the OP
 
8:11 PM
I guess it is simple if you can understand OP english edit it else close it , simple
 
@gunr2171 Aye.
 
I'm good with moving
 
yep
 
Let's move forward
 
This room was placed in timeout for 1 minute; Second topic.
 
8:12 PM
^^
 
We are now writing up a conclusion to this topic. The next topic is:
Be Nice" topic. source
> The room went through some convulsions in mid-September. The purpose of this topic is to try to close the matter with a bit of guidance going forward. We are looking for closure, not pro and con arguments. Of course, if there is something you would like to propose in order to help the room handle similar incidents better in the future, that's fine. But let's look forward, not back.
 
@gunr2171 If this is the issue I'm thinking of, both sides made mistakes.
It could have, should have, been handled much more quietly. There was absolutely no reason to drag that out over any longer than five minutes.
 
@Undo just respect our timeout
 
Can't see it.
 
He does not see a count down.
 
8:14 PM
^
 
What's the context for the mid-September convulsion?
 
^ Let us not look backwards
 
That's regarding the previous topic (sorry being late) I have to throw in that many newbie users throw in a disclaimer: _"Excuse my bad english,. Where that's not the major problem with the quesiton
 
8:14 PM
@Undo what do you propose? Trashcanning the conversation? Mods deleting messages?
 
It's a meeting room, not a train station guys
 
So I'll prefix this with: This was a politically charged issue. I'm purposely not going to take sides on that.
What I will do is say that it appeared to be dragged out by both sides. If either side had stopped earlier, we wouldn't still be having this problem
 
Autumn needs all your nerves, regarding waves of incoming crap. Its may be a matter of enough drug supplement to survive that :P
 
user3956566
I think there just needs to be a limit when people become emotionally charged
 
user3956566
By limit I mean a commonsense limit
 
8:16 PM
I suggest both sides having a private room if the discussion escalated.
 
Ok. I think we just need to be more vigilant with disengaging when things don't seem to be going anywhere.
 
Flag and move on. If you're feeling emotion, you're not able to handle something sanely.
 
user3956566
Agree with the private room
 
@Adriaan My recommendation for both sides, is to take one step back and breath. The main problem occurred in a 5-10 minute time frame and blew up from there. A short timeout, not treating flags as a weapon, and not ignoring flags because there are so many, is a good start.
 
(not always true, but a darn good guideline)
 
8:16 PM
@FirstStep I think everybody should stop talking about it if the discussion escalated
 
In this regard, I think it's helpful for other on-lookers to try to de-escalate instead of taking sides.
 
Kicks sometimes are taken personally, They must not be. Hence tis better not to kick.
 
i suggest timeout
 
user3956566
I think any topic that derails the main purpose of the room should go into a private room and it can follow that
 
and kicking if required
 
8:17 PM
@NobodyNada But sometimes both parties feel like explaining and clarifying to each other. This then has nothing to do with the SOCVR
 
@FirstStep cc @Yvette No, this won't happen for tiny problems like this. There was no reason a simple "move on" couldn't have solved that.
No reason to let it fester in private
 
user3956566
@Undo yes, but if the two want to continue they need a room.
 
you can create your own gallery rooms, no need to go fully private
 
user3956566
for resolvable things
 
I think the added rules to the FAQ about flags and to all step back instead of engaging should cover this, honestly. And if not we take the mod flags and see what comes out of that.
 
8:18 PM
What's being nice has a broad conception depending on culture and knowledge of the site's workings
 
user3956566
oh not private rooms, I meant a separate room
 
@Undo I'm not sure of the incident. But a few users might not take a "move on" by the RO seriously. This might need some other steps by the ROs.
 
I (we, SO mods / owners) reserve the right to say "no, you just need to forget it".
 
@BhargavRao yes, that is true
 
I think telling both parties to just stop and move on is fine. Like @NobodyNada said
 
8:19 PM
@BhargavRao Then there are tools to force the issue. Respect the room or you're out
 
@Machavity Exactly. That's the pressing need of those situation.
 
@BhargavRao That's not a valid excuse. Ignoring "move on" is something the ROs should be able to handle with kicks.
 
@ColdFire Let the incident remain as "the incident".
 
@ColdFire might be or not
 
Just be nice. If you see something flagged and it could be inappropriate respect that someone felt that way and move on. We deal with people of all types from all over the world. There are going to be clashes and people are going to view things differently. Moving forward we just need to be more mindful of what we are saying and we need to not overreact if something gets flagged.
 
8:20 PM
kicks
 
> Note, we only have 3 minutes left for this topic. Please make any final arguments. We need to get some resolution soon to keep on track.
 
Wait are we talking of being nice in the room or at the main site?
 
@πάνταῥεῖ In-room
 
room
 
user3956566
I agree not to be offended by flags. Kinda defeats the purpose of flags.
 
8:20 PM
@Undo Ah OK. That's different may be
 
Undo is right here. This was a single isolated incident that evolved into a big drama for really nothing. I think every party involved, including the RO team, understood what went wrong and learned from it. In the future, we'll try to be more responding to issues currently rising in chat, but I'll add that everyone leads by example. Now we can continue.
 
Adding on to @NathanOliver's point, I think the overreact advice would be relevant for meta discussions too. I know I was misunderstood in one of those discussions.
 
I go with room with an RO involved being with both parties (even if one is an RO). (under the almighty "be nice" rule on SO)
 
@Andy Yes, Kicks are the proper choice. But again, kicks are taken personally many times. (Face a lot of these in the Python room). This again must be taken care of some how. timeout serves better if there's a mass mess.
 
Is there something else to add to this topic?
 
8:22 PM
Nope!
 
@BhargavRao Part of moderation is dealing with the people that take it personally.
 
Nope
 
No.
 
Nope
 
Great :)
 
8:22 PM
@Tunaki Nope, other than to let me know when the timeout is over.
 
@BhargavRao they should be taking it personally. If I kick you, you better realize you crossed a line
 
@Andy Yes, That's the main characteristic of a leader. :)
 
Those pesky mods.
 
haha undo
 
This room was placed in timeout for 2 minutes; third topic
Let's stop arguing daily about the appropriateness of close votes on specific questions. source
> The topic raised here is that discussions about whether or not a close / reopen vote is warranted are sometimes too long, which results in it being repetitive and not constructive. The question is: is the room ok with it, and, if not, what is the point at which it becomes too long?
 
8:25 PM
The timeout isn't over yet Undo. Keep counting... :)
 
4. Avoid extended discussion about a cv-pls. We don’t have to agree about a close request. We’re not a democracy. However, users that are posting cv-pls’es that are blatantly wrong will be told so. The final verdict is on the RO team.
 
Isn't that one of the main strengths of SOCVR? Discussing about our moderation actions?
 
I think debating close reasons is one of the main purposes of the room. I don’t think it is productive if we debate the same ones over and over again though; and if this happens a lot we should add guidance for those reasons to the FAQ.
 
If you're having a back-and-forth between two well-defined 'teams', it's gone too long. You know when you hit that point. A blanket ban on discussion about cv-pls requests would defeat the purpose of the room and be unhealthy.
 
@rene (Last word as a reply only) Oh, Not that. Some users feel that, He kicked me because it's me here and if someone else had done it, He wouldn't have kicked them. (has happened in other rooms). That's what we need to prevent.
 
8:25 PM
I go with peter because this is already mentioned in our FAQ.
 
user3956566
I think once the discussion is cyclic, gone full circle it's time to quite it and agree to disagree
 
petter is right
 
It's the FAQ... not me
 
is this related to multiple CV's for same user question?
or not related at all
 
Yeah I mean I starred Peter.
 
8:26 PM
@ColdFire no
 
Agree with the FAQ. That's perfect. If it's bad, close it move on.
 
@Undo Totaly agree there. Once you start repeating reasons for open or close you are just hitting a dead horse. No reason to keep going on. Table the discussion, agree to disagree and move on to reading XKCD while eating waffles.
 
user3956566
The purpose is to discuss close votes/reopen by proxy so we need to be careful discouraging it. It doesn't happen often that we discuss them too long.
 
We don’t have to agree about a close request. We’re not a democracy.
i think this sums it up perfectly
 
But. I think we might have misunderstood the topic. It is talking about the q when gets fully closed, then fully reopen, then fully closed.. and so on
NOT when an argument happens about a single cv-pls request.
 
8:28 PM
It is in the FAQ then why did we have some endless discussion about a cv reasons a couple of times?
 
@ColdFire But if someone sees a reason that something shouldn't be closed, they should definitely post it.
 
@FirstStep Well we only do it once. One close and reopen request per post in the room. Once it has gone full circle it is up to main to handle it.
 
Healthy, short debate is good, then go vote as you see fit. Long debates tear people apart.
 
@rene We are like all other users of SO probably
 
@FirstStep It is effectively the same guidance. Too long discussions are too long.
Alright, we covered the topic here. Continue to the next one?
 
8:29 PM
yup
 
^ Agree
 
@PetterFriberg reading is not our core competence?
 
yes ^
 
starts counting
 
8:29 PM
typiiiing
 
yeah
 
Wait
 
thinking
 
^ Someone is typing.
 
@rene exactly
 
8:30 PM
I tend to note when people use "homework" or "no research" as close reasons. This can lend to sort of lengthy discussions about this matter, which is however already well-covered on Meta and the like. Any issue with this kind of behaviour?
 
user3956566
Hang on @Kyll is typing I can hear him, we're on skype together
 
done typing
 
lol @Yvette
 
@rene If users don't follow the FAQ, why would we expect them to follow the result of this discussion?
 
@Kyll I think a good resolution is just to point to MSO. And then drop it here in the room.
 
8:31 PM
point them to FAQ
 
@Kyll I'm fine with using a more specific reason but still vote too broad
 
@Kyll meeh if it is not valid close reason there is another point on FAQ, I think Drew got tired of the long what is typo and what is not typo dicussion
 
> Note, we only have 3 minutes left for this topic. Please make any final arguments. We need to get some resolution soon to keep on track.
 
I vote we move on now.
 
@Kyll At the right time. Also to be noted that "no research" is a downvote reason and NOT a close reason. - MAritjn Pieters
 
8:31 PM
@NobodyNada I dunno ...
 
user3956566
Commonsense, If we've gone full circle, we don't need to go around again
 
Reality is that this issue is the same problem as issue #2. The proposal here is to shoot the messenger. People disagreed and carried it too far.
 
shoot the messenger poor soul
 
user3956566
If people are repeating their arguments, then we know it's been discussed enough
 
I think stating what is the reason that we used when closed voted (or what would we use if we don't have any more flags) Is fine. And clear. (Like typo, unclear, too broad... etc)
 
user3956566
8:32 PM
yep
 
ok, time to move on.
This room was placed in timeout for 2 minutes; fourth topic
Should room owners be moderating room members actions outside of the room? source
 
No. This sounds like dealing with a person not the content. The next topic (I believe) is about Room Owner coverage. This is only going to make more work for the room owners and the work is, essentially, stalking other members.
 
No, This is like my teacher following me to the bar and telling that I should not drink.
 
I don't think ROs need to take responsibility for the actions of individual users, but they should be responsible for action taken by multiple users.
 
The only thing I'll say to this is: you're not moderators, don't try to be. If it needs moderating, get a moderator. If it's a room issue, handle it in the room.
 
8:35 PM
One word sum up ,Nope
 
If a user posts a snarky comment, a RO (or even a regular user) can say "don't do that please," but they don't have to -- that was the user's individual action, not that of the room.
 
Why the heck not?
 
Short answer: Hell No.
 
user3956566
Unless they are discussing SOCVR, it is not our business. It's not our place the to moderate people, just the room.
 
But if several users are leaving snarky comments, an RO has the authority (and, if someone brings the comments to their attention, the responsibility) to tell the users involved to stop, because it was an action taken by the room.
 
8:35 PM
well that seems fairly clear
 
I see that was bothering you @Undo
 
Not feasible. Act only if notified and it impacts the room. Move on?
 
indeed :P
 
move on , yes
 
I mean, I need something to do during a timeout I can't see :P
 
8:36 PM
How would this be enforced even if we did want this?
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Are you saying it would be a good idea to do that? Can you expand?
 
@ryanyuyu UserTracker Bot written by Sam?
 
I think a RO can be like a guider (give advice, show examples.. etc) outside the room. But definitely not responsible for users actions, or have the right to tell users what to do.
 
Wait, who was talking about content?
 
@ryanyuyu sam
 
8:36 PM
But yeah, ROs are not responsible for how 'their' people act outside the room. If someone is being an idiot, an RO is completely within their rights to flag them for it.
 
RO Moderation should only extend outside to #1 People representing SOCVR ("I'm with SOCVR and...") #2 People discussing said actions within SOCVR
 
Sam
@BhargavRao Shh
 
user4639281
So just to throw this in there. The moderation of users actions outside of the room also includes piling on in comments etc
 
@BhargavRao That's not enforcement. That's automated stalking, if we agree the ROs should moderator outside of the room.
 
8:37 PM
@TinyGiant That's explicitly mentioned in the FAQ right?
 
I think anyone is free to tell other user if you think he/she is not doing something correct on SO, but this is not a RO feature but a general feature of SO.
 
user3956566
@TinyGiant good point, unless it's in the course of room business, which includes how we conduct ourselves under SO posts
 
@Tunaki I thought we were talking about close voting/reopening behavior?
 
@TinyGiant Yeah if it is coming from the room we can say something. If 5 of us randomly find a post and make A comment I see nothing wrong there.
 
user4639281
@ryanyuyu It is, question is, is that even within our jurisdiction.
 
user4639281
8:38 PM
I see that anyone should comment on whether or not they think something is over the top
 
user4639281
But does that require moderation on our end (our being the room owners)
 
nope we can just for, if a case arrives
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Talking about moderating any actions of people frequenting the room, by the room owners.
 
user3956566
@NathanOliver as regulars of the room and we see another member there. Unless the comment is unique I think it's better to refrain
 
user4639281
8:38 PM
OOO shiny
 
@TinyGiant If they have something constructive to say then sure they can comment. If they are just piling on then that is not needed.
 
An RO can tell users to stop doing something that is not inside the room, but it's not their responsibility.
 
@TinyGiant Sure, I think the rule is just to prevent cases of three basically identical comments. Just to prevent clutter.
 
user4639281
@NathanOliver Sure it isn't needed. There are lots of things that aren't needed. But is it up to us to moderate it?
 
@TinyGiant nope
 
8:39 PM
@TinyGiant My answer is no, but for the sake of argument...what would moderation from the ROs look like outside of the room?
 
In cases of piling on the same comment on a post brought up in the room, Yes
 
I think this topic would take us towards something more abstract: what is expected of RO's anyways?
 
^ Written in the FAQ no?
 
are they leaders?
 
@Tunaki Room owners are users at Stack Overflow as any others. Why should they refrain moderating? Well, regarding particular users being moderated it always depends on the actions they expose (whereever)
 
user4639281
8:40 PM
@NathanOliver Should that moderation be the room owner's responsibility, or all users?
 
hmm I think it is up to RO to check that Room is not misused by its users.
 
user4639281
Should that moderation be done in the room, or on the post?
 
or just people that run the show and coordinate actions?
@FirstStep no
 
@TinyGiant Well all. In absence of the RO's lead by example. Just a friendly ping in the room is all that is needed.
 
AFAIK RO's are for a room , and they should handle only that room
 
8:41 PM
I have my handful of managing the room, I'm not going to make judgment calls on every regular I encounter on main.
 
@PetterFriberg actions done within the room, yes. But we don't have the power nor should we have the responsibility for outside the room. Tiny's got a point.
 
Nor do you want the responsibility.
 
@Braiam I think a RO is a coordinator and runs the show. Can be a leader but it is not a must, and he should not abuse his privileges.
 
So if a bunch of users are piling on a post brought up in the room, do ROs have the responsibility to tell them to stop and do they have the authority to tell them to stop?
 
^ If brought up by the room of course yes -> have the right to tell them to stop if it is not right what they are doing
 
user4639281
8:42 PM
The same thing as when stuff is being said on meta, the conversation should stay on meta. If it is happening on a post, it should stay on that post
 
you can always tell them to stop
 
So the answer is: let alone we can't do that effectively, we don't even want to do that. People outside of the room can do as they want, as long as they follow SO rules and guidelines. Of course, when links to questions are left in the room, it is expected that they follow the room's rules. But we can't kick a user because we disagree with something they commented on Main or Meta.
 
@FirstStep I don't run much. I only move messages to the grave yard
 
user3956566
If there is pile on a ping to that user in the room is the best action, rather than creating more noise under the post.
 
@Tunaki I think that's fair.
 
user4639281
8:43 PM
I say, if we want to moderate some action on main, we need to do it on main, and as a regular user, not a room owner
 
@Tunaki summed up nice
 
> Note, we only have 3 minutes left for this topic. Please make any final arguments. We need to get some resolution soon to keep on track.
 
Room Owners are that... Room owners
 
Ready to move on.
 
user4639281
Ready to move on
 
8:44 PM
next topic pls
 
This room was placed in timeout for 2 minutes; last topic
Do we want to work towards a situation where we have enough (and distributed throughout the timezones enough) room owners so that at least one is online at any given time? source
 
Yes! Yes! Most of the small and silly incidents that occur usually happen because there's no RO.
 
I'll just say that if we need an RO in the room 24/7 then something is rotten in the room
 
My personal experience moderating "other things", says "No". Forcing complete coverage adds an unneeded burden on everyone - ROs to coordinate time away, users to not panic when an RO isn't around. Instead, focus on the "lead by example" method and if a problem comes up use the available tools to flag, summon an RO through other means, or even talk to one of the mods the frequent the room (without stalking them)
 
Yes agreed with andy
 
8:46 PM
While Room Owners are the guides and the authority figures for the room, they should be in no way the only ones to manage the rules of the room. Everyone is responsible for upholding the peace.
 
would be nice of course, but do we really need it?
We all are big boys, no?
 
@Braiam and gurls!
 
Ah, Yeh. That makes sense.
 
@Kyll girls*
 
"Are we a kinder garden"? No. But an RO should be around to keep the room out of troubles, with meta especially (when a user is upset of a close vote.. etc), yes.
 
8:47 PM
@Braiam And (suspected) bots
 
in absence of RO , members lead by example
 
KINDERGARTEN
 
user3956566
The 24 hour period needs to be covered with increasing activity and the responsibility we have and the fact we sometimes have to answer on meta also
 
user4639281
Should we trust our room members to act like adults, or not?
 
FLOWERGARDEN
 
user3956566
8:47 PM
@ColdFire it's proven not to work like this
 
@rene I think I get your point.
 
@rene we know you are sensible to the G word... we will try to not mention it
 
@TinyGiant We should.
 
@Yvette The peoples who'es action brought up the meta post can respond, no? Do the RO's have to defend user actions to meta?
 
user4639281
Then we shouldn't need 100% coverage
 
8:48 PM
Do we have this right now? Do we cover all times? If no, are we facing issues?
 
@Yvette but why do you need me if we all have the responsibility?
 
Most troublesome activities in the room are not handled by RO tools, which means regular uses are just as effective as ROs in that case.
 
@Yvette Then one of the members need to calm down
 
Am I only summoned to kick people?
 
user3956566
8:49 PM
@NathanOliver depends on the post. sometimes it's good to have a RO if things are derailed
 
No
 
@NathanOliver related to this, MSO can wait a few hours for an "official SOCVR" response while an RO finishes sleeping. (cc @Yvette)
 
sometimes I would want others non members to speak up for the room... it's less likely to become a we vs them
 
I think meta can wait
 
user3956566
There is a time period where the room is more likely to derail and it would be good to have all the time periods covered with a RO. Generally the ROs bring order. People often joke "there's a RO behave" but in that joke is truth
 
8:51 PM
A more well composed and thorough response beats a quick and not so well composed one, especially on hot button issues
 
user3956566
the meta fact is only one part of it
 
Although
 
Let's implement an official "Room is Closed" time? Where no cv-pls request are welcome?
 
Lots of situations that end up escalating can be defused by a RO
 
@FirstStep no
 
8:52 PM
@FirstStep nope
 
@Magisch But they shouldn't be expected to be present all the time to do that.
 
Sam
@FirstStep Why?
 
@Magisch I don't understand how?
 
if conversation derail, you can always ping a mod or flag it :), flags are made for that purpose,use it
 
The ROs just have additional moderation tools; regular members can still defuse escalated situations when ROs aren't around.
 
8:52 PM
if we defend "our position" every time on meta, then either we are polarizing issues that don't need to be polarized or we are losing touch with the community
 
@rene Starting a topic that is emotionally charged -> shut it down
 
you all can do that
 
Regular members can't enforce things, but they still can lead
 
@Sam It was just a thought, maybe it is really not doable (with limited number of qualified ROs) to cover all times of the day with an RO around.
 
@rene By not starting Meta drama, along with room drama. Once meta is involved, it brings it a whole new set of eyes. Eyes that probably aren't aware of the entire situation or already have a bias against the room.
 
8:53 PM
Cause if we want a 24/7 coverage, even if we have RO around the world, we are going to need a time schedule. Do members really want their room owners to be on a schedule?
 
@Braiam that's fair. I don't think we really need an "offical" response unless it's directly about SOCVR. I don't imagine that's the general case.
 
@rene Stupid solutions to stupid problems. If a discussion is delving into non-constructiveness, we all know that a single "No more of this allowed" from you is enough to defuse it. Still, it's stoopid and childish.
 
Sam
@FirstStep Sure, but what problem were you aiming to solve by having that implemented?
 
user4639281
Most RO's were leading by example well before they were RO's
 
^
 
8:54 PM
@Tunaki Nope
 
user3956566
It doesn't have to be an official schedule written up, it can be one decided by the ROs on a day by day basis no?
 
@Sam Just to keep the work organised. I had the thought because I did not get an answer yet: Are we actually having issues when a RO is not around?
 
*clarificaiton: Not starting meta drama immediately. If there is an issue large enough for a meta post, it should be posted. But, it shouldn't be posted when both sides are still upset with one another
 
A room just for cv and another for discussion?
 
@Tunaki No. I don't think that's fair to you guys.
 
user4639281
8:55 PM
Just to be clear on this. Room members should account for their own actions on meta when necessary
 
@Kyll why don't you all learn to think what would rene say?
 
@ColdFire why?
 
Coordinating just the time schedule is a great amount of work... And unpredictabilities.
 
@ColdFire not a good idea
 
@rene Not really on the root issue there =p
 
8:56 PM
@Tunaki agree, unless we are having big issues
 
@rene becoz we are not flowers :p
 
user3956566
Sometimes members do try to stop things from derailing and it fails. They lack the authority of RO
 
@NobodyNada to avoid this type of discussion
 
I have to go to class guys o/ Thanks for the good time
 
user4639281
Sometimes room owners try to stop things from derailing and it fails
 
Sam
8:57 PM
@FirstStep cv-pls'es, for the most part, aren't the problem here though.
 
Will read later
 
@Yvette If they can't stop things from derailing, then they can take it to Meta or flag for a mod
 
@Yvette It can, and it's time for everyone to recognize some mistakes, learn from them, and not make them again.
 
user4639281
Sometimes community managers try to stop things from derailing and it fails
 
> Note, we only have 3 minutes left for this topic. Please make any final arguments. We need to get some resolution soon to keep on track.
 
user3956566
8:57 PM
@NobodyNada we want to avoid it degenerating to this point if possible and make it a welcome environment for all member at all time zones
 
user4639281
Room owners are not a magic bullet
 
user3956566
@Tunaki same problem for a year now, so it's not really working. The whole SE network runs with people in authority (through rep or moderation)
 
As everything, having a RO at hand when you need it is nice to have, but implementing anything feasible would be a PITA and rarely useful.
 
user4639281
We are there to keep the discussion on topic, and nudge when necessary, but even our ability to moderate the room requires that other users be adult about things
 
If we can't make this room work with all of us it is not going to work with just some RO's around
 
8:59 PM
To complement: there isn't always a moderator quickly and directly around when you're flagging a heated comment discussion.
 
user3956566
> Do we want to work towards a situation where we have enough (and distributed throughout the timezones enough) room owners so that at least one is online at any given time?
 
user4639281
We could all be room owners, then we would have absolute coverage, would that solve anything?
 
user3956566
I think this is a good idea. Is it vital? no. A preference? yes.
 
user3956566
@TinyGiant that's not a viable argument
 
@TinyGiant The sysadmin in me just burst into tears. You monster.
 
9:00 PM
@TinyGiant I know is in jest, but I want to see that... you know, world burning and all
 
Anything to add?
 
user4639281
That's all for me
 
I think we're good, last call
 
Nothing here.
 
Yup.
 
9:02 PM
This room was placed in timeout for 30 seconds; we made it to the end!
This concludes this room meeting. Conclusions are being written now and will appear here momentarily.
We'll keep this room open for another 30 minutes, then lock it until the next meeting. Thanks all for participating!
We'll also announce the results of the RO nominations in about 30 minutes back in SOCVR.
Thanks everyone!
 
Best of luck to the candidates! May the best candidate get the ROship.
 
BOL all
and gn
 
Thanks for the time all :)
 
Cya all, GN
 
likewise
 
user3956566
9:04 PM
ok I'll feed my horses and see the results
 
9:15 PM
room mode changed to Gallery: anyone may enter, but only approved users can talk
 

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