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1:41 AM
It's straightforward: CRAN emails you, and gives you (generally) a month. Either you comply, or you are archived (or if you have reverse depends, orphaned). But there is no hand-holding, no kumbaya singing, and despite what some people claim, no glee. Everybody would rather have working packages.
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5 hours later…
6:51 AM
It seems I have missed quite a tidyeval party :-)

About novice vs expert, I think you're forgetting that R as a language includes lots of features that are only fully understood by experts but can readily be used by novices. Think of first-class functions and lexical scoping. Few people fully understand what `lapply(mtcars, as.character)` does exactly and how it works. That doesn't make it hard to use. The `family` argument of `glm()` also feels strange to novices yet they can use it confidently by following recipes from documentation. The average R analyst is not a computer scientist but
 
 
2 hours later…
8:50 AM
@BrodieG I disagree that Oshka closely follows R semantics because it conflates the notions of expressions and promises. A symbolic object evaluating to a symbolic object does not trigger recursive evaluation; a promise evaluating to a promise does trigger recursive evaluation. Ideally Oshka expansion would follow the promise logic while respecting the semantics of calls. For this reason I think the package would be better founded with a new symbolic type implementing reified promises. It'd be important for this symbolic type to also embed the original environment just like promises (and qu
 
 
4 hours later…
12:44 PM
@hadley I don't like it when people make false statements based on a sentiment because a decision was made they didn't agree with. I haven't seen any difference in how CRAN deals with things. I do see a change towards v0.0.x packages pushed to CRAN, which is something you don't even should bother trying on eg CTAN or other archive networks of other languages. So I understand the policy changes
You're being particularly unkind towards Uwe et al. They still do this on a volunteer basis afaik.
@JuliaSilge The copying to the clipboard shouldn't feel like a kick in the pants. It looks pretty strict, but reprex could easily get around that by not copying by default but adding an argument "toClipboard" or something. Because : "Limited exceptions may be allowed in interactive sessions if the package obtains confirmation from the user."
 
1:16 PM
@JorisMeys I didn't mean to imply that it's CRAN that expresses glee - it's the people who report that your package have been orphaned who tend to
@JorisMeys But there are also a number of interactions between R package developers and CRAN that you are not aware of. Just because CRAN are volunteers doesn't give them the unlimited right to do whatever they want.
 
@hadley which has nothing to do with CRAN. I know also in the scientific world there's a lot of egos, spite and jealousy. I work among these people :-)
@hadley Do you have complaints about how people from CRAN treated you? I appreciate our scientific discussions even when we might have different ideas about things, but I draw the line at gossiping. If you have a concrete example of where Uwe or someone else went overboard, we can discuss it if you must. But otherwise you're still being particularly unkind towards Uwe et al.
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@JorisMeys discussing CRAN behaviour in public is not useful.
But I don't understand why you think I'm being unkind to Uwe - I haven't mentioned him at all?
I claimed that the way orphaning is handled is unpleasant, and I stand by this: the package maintainer is not routinely notified when a package is orphaned. This means that they usually find out secondhand, which is unpleasant.
 
1:34 PM
Still plain false. Package maintainers are informed by email, and given a deadline to comply, or else. Does it really matter that there is no second email for or else? We have three volunteers dealing with over 12k packages from 5k or so maintainers. Have some perspective.
 
@hadley Uwe et al. That's my way to say "the CRAN peeps". And how package orphaning is done, has been explained before. See also cran.r-project.org/src/contrib/Orphaned/README If the email bounces, there's a reason you weren't informed. And that's not because they didn't try.
 
@lionel Hey, sorry you missed all the fun. I'll respond to your points over in R-meta later (maybe not today) as I already used up all my slack time yesterday jawing over here =).
 
@DirkEddelbuettel Yes it does matter. Most package maintainers are also volunteers and deserve some respect.
@JorisMeys Packages are orphaned for other reasons than bad email address.
You obviously think CRAN's behaviour is fine. I do not. There doesn't seem like there's much point arguing about it.
 
@hadley and you know it was for another reason because...they told you?
Yes, I consider CRAN a given the way it works. I don't pay for it. I rely on volunteers. Hence I play by their rules. Nothing stops you from setting up your own repo. MRAN is exactly that. But I don't see the problem with "we notify you of a problem and if it isn't solve in time or the email bounces, we orphane the package." Pretty clear to me.
 
@hadley Looking forward to your implementation of another email helper system for CRAN. You clearly have an itch to scratch so go for it.
 
 
5 hours later…
7:41 PM
aargh, too late. I was still punching holes in a card :-)
 

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