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12:48 AM
@hadley No, it wasn't. I meant it as a way of highlighting that the "only" could be a matter of opinion (i.e. person X thinks package is only restructuring interface, whereas person Y thinks that it is doing that and more). I have no major concerns with a package like stringr. Haven't really thought through how I would feel if someone just added an interface to one of my packages, and that interface ended up more popular than the package itself.
For better or worse that seems an unlikely problem for me to have anytime in the near future =).
 
 
11 hours later…
11:50 AM
@JoshuaUlrich meaning that all these new operators that seem like a sequence of another (NOT) operator don't make code more easy to read. Perl has a lot of those symbol operators you can use to write very efficient and powerful code with very little characters. But it's difficult to read.
So I agree with @hadley that interface is important. Part of tidyverse is a way to make R more easy to use for data mangling, especially for researchers that are not data scientists. But some other parts have a reason of existence that is not "simplifying code", but "make tidyverse tools useful inside functions". And doing so actually adds complexity to the interface, it doesn't remove it.
@hadley Note that I didn't call it a "bad" solution. It's just a solution that doesn't make the interface easier or more straightforward. It's a patch to make things possible that weren't due to the initial setup of the tools. And that's not a problem. Just don't sell it as an improvement to the interface. It's not. It's an extension to make the interface useable in a wider set of cases. That's something completely different.
Plus, I'm not wary of new syntax. I've learnt a new syntax more than 10 times now: basic 4, gwbasic, Qbasic, Visual Basic, Turbo Pascal, Java, Perl, SAS, Python, Matlab, R, C, FORTRAN and C++. That's a lot of new syntax, no? And it tells my age too I guess :-)
 
 
3 hours later…
2:39 PM
@JorisMeys Thanks for the clarification!
 
 
4 hours later…
6:32 PM
It’s an improvement because it puts NSE on a strong foundation that makes it straight forward to compose functions that quote their arguments.
You can argue that functions shouldn’t quote their arguments (ie no NSE ever). I don’t object to that argument except that you’d end up with a language that’s very different to R
I don’t see how tidyeval makes life harder for data analysts - you can completely ignore and you’re no worse off than before it existed
 

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