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02:09
@JerryCoffin Distance = time x speed. Any inaccuracy in time measurement will be magnified by much greater speed.
Also too many things going on at the moment, I thought my time is flexible, then I booked 3 events on the same day. My head can not be at 3 different places at the same time.
Didn't even realise that I triple booked until was asked whether I would be interested to join a Christmas in July thingy.
03:11
Can't wait for tomorrow when I receive my PSU. I apparently had a case I thought was too small that fit my mobo
the thing being that the case had a micro atx board and the case itself advertise max to atx
But only after that computer case take a shower
 
1 hour later…
04:36
There are so many things troubling me that I don't even feel hungry any more, all I had in the past 18 hours were couple of biscuits, some coffee & I am not hungry.
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Nub. Real computer builders have all their parts beforehand. :)
There were 2 things drove me to the edge of depression in the past few days, and they had nothing to do with solar farm (when we go there, it's usually a 10-12 hours day) or the fact a tenant is moving away in a week and half's time so I need to find replacement for the house, or A.I. robotic meeting next week or the charity run a few days after.
 
2 hours later…
06:42
#include <iostream.h>
^ ಠ_ಠ
 
1 hour later…
07:49
What do you guys think of this UPS? Somehow its old, and cost $>500, my other version of the model lived for 3.5 years. On the other hand t, it seems to be the cheapest of its class: newegg.com/cyberpower-or2200lcdrtxl2u-nema-5-20r/p/…
Are you supposed to buy new UPSes or just replace the batteries?
@Mikhail watch out for the cord, if I'm not mistaken, those are rated for 20A
so you won't be able to plug it in the usual 15A plugs
What do you mean by that? I plan on plugging it into a normal outlet, and connect one of my 24 drive JBODs to it...
Why?
normal outlets are rated for 15A
nema 5-15R
08:01
Oh, I know what you mean. Yeah, I have one of those plugs I can use.
the link point to a nema 5-20R
Yeah, I got one of those, also. But that is an astute observation.
ah okay then
well that doesn't mean it'll actually draw that much
it just won't protect you from house fires as well :P
it's just it would suck to receive it and you can't plug it without risking melting your wires
it's not very common to see those, I'd love to install some NEMA-6-15R in my house but those are nowhere to be found around here
According to our government (Quebec), the closest someone should be allowed to touch the electrical network is when changing a lightbulb according to our politician
08:27
Okay, but any opinions on the lifetime or how to correctly service these guys? Basically, my last UPS made no sense, because the only time we ever had a power outage, it ended up not working (battery failed after 3.5 years).
not sure about this one, but most of the UPS I've seend have a large 12V battery
you can buy replacement for them usually
 
5 hours later…
13:28
 
3 hours later…
16:01
@TelKitty I'm tempted to write something long and detailed, but I'll settle for "no, not really". Yes, the basic idea has a little merit, but no, taken altogether it's not really very accurate in this case. The biggest problem is that it misses the fact that the speed of sound varies pretty widely based on a number of factors (barometric pressure, humidity, ...). The speed of light is much more predictable.
16:27
Hello. I wanted to ask if learncpp.com is a good website to learn C++?
Hello!
I learned a lot from learncpp.com! It does a good job of explaining things in ways that I understand.
But the answer to https://stackoverflow.com/questions/388242/the-definitive-c-book-guide-and-list states that C++ Primer is the book.

I just downloaded it and gosh it is 1400 pages long. I don't really know if I might need that amount of C++ knowledge!
16:43
It depends on your learning style. I cannot read a book and just follow the examples, it gets boring and I get easily disrupted. I started really learning when I had a project to work on and a lot of problems to solve, the website was a good reference for learning on the go.
I don't mind reading books now that I have experience. I understand the material better and I always learn something new.
Thanks for your suggestion :)
@AaryanDewan A quick glance indicates that it includes some false/misleading information, but I've certainly seen a whole lot worse.
Among web sites that purport to teach C++ go, I'd place it pretty highly--but that's not really much of a compliment, as most of them are truly awful.
17:03
@JerryCoffin how often do you find looking for a vendor package/third party API's, over simply building something custom for your needs. Are there any rules of thumb? I ask because I have a predisposition to looking for patterns and engineering things from the bottom up, but I'm not sure if that's always a good mentality to have.
17:30
@Rick I lean pretty heavily toward using preexisting code, so unless I'm going to spend really close to as much time writing "shim" code to fit it into the current project as it would take to write the code independently, I'll probably use outside code if I can.
17:46
Fair point.
18:04
@AaryanDewan I don't like tutorials that describe C++ as an "object oriented" language, because a lot of the time they teach you how to write Java in C++.
But at least this one seems to be reasonably up to date.
Aw man, why do they always show pointers so soon.
Like, the "introduction to std::vector" is after dynamic memory allocation.
I still think Accelerated C++ is a good book for learning C++ today. You can always learn about auto and lambda and stuff afterwards.
One it's major strengths is that it's only around 300 pages. So it seems manageable.
18:20
@StackedCrooked Yeah--could seriously benefit from an update though. Years ago, Andrew Koenig wrote a little bit about updating it. At the time, he said the problem was the copyright was originally owned by AT&T, and after the trivestiture, nobody really knew who owned it any more. He hinted that there would be an update soon, but it's been a long time, so I suspect it's an even worse mess than he realized (or whoever owns it isn't agreeable to an update).
There are many good C++ tutorials, but among the worst I've seen is Jason Turner's videos on how to bullshit reading ASM (looking at C++ disassembly without knowing assembly).
lol, that seems personal
Did Jason Turner steal your girlfriend or something?
3
@Mysticial I got a problem
So I got everything hooked
But it melted?
Nah, just nothing is displayed through hdmi/display port
are those port available for bios?
the QCode says AD which according to the manual says ready to boot event
video card?
18:45
What, you forgot the video card?
hmm RX 590 saphire
no it's plugged
led are lighted and fans turns
Plugged in. Neither port shows anything?
nope
So I was wondering if i'm face to a catch 22 where the graphic card can't display bios without firmware upgrade
mobo is X570?
18:49
oh right... forgot
Was the mobo made before or after the TR refresh was launched?
IOW, maybe you need to update BIOS on mobo?
ah
I'll try to upgrade then
no idea if that's the case
yeah, not sure if that mobo supports the offline USB BIOS update thing.
I hate those.
Since you can't see what's going on.
it does have a button behind
I'm surprised nowadays there isn't support for something like at least some VGA mode for videocard so you can actually use any card
19:02
I have a bunch of shitty old cards sitting around in and out of machines.
So when shit breaks, I just start swapping shit until it works again to where I can debug it.
Not just cards, but most system components.
I have to AGP PRO card around, not much of help
I think the only thing I don't have spares of are mobos, CPU, ram, and PSU. The latter two I can just pull from existing boxes.
hmm just read the manual and apparently to update firmware you have to navigate in the bios to some menu
fuck
no other cards sitting around?
Or even to steal temporarily?
If the problem is that it won't post without an updated BIOS, you're kinda fucked until you put a gen1 TR into it.
Other sanity checks:
- Ram in the right slots?
- All power pins plugged in?
- Power plugged into monitor?
- Reset CMOS?
- MOBO battery isn't dead?
- Nothing shorting out pins behind the mobo? (I've had an extra stand-off do that before.)
- PSU is strong enough?
- If PSU is modular, the cables are plugged into the PSU.
Which one?
why would it need a gen1 tr? isn't the Bios starting up without the CPU ?
or that only apply to old cpus
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Some mobos won't even post on a later gen CPU without a BIOS update.
I have no idea if that applies to X399 though.
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix technically can happen, Vega 56 had that issue with older AMD chipsets
anyway,
Ram yes
Yes
reset cmos? not sure how
mobo battery should be new and those should last longer than the 2 years on the shelf
I found a case so no, it shouldn't
750W is 200W more than what I calculated
modular and yes I heard the clicks
but I can recheck everything again
19:29
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix debug LEDs on mobo?
qcode is AD for "ready to boot event" so my guess the cpu is fine
it wouldn't get there otherwise no?
Check the manual it should list the code order
Oh I guess I'll have to plug the buzzer
there are buzzer signal for hardware failure
Do you live near a hardware store that can help you debug?
I live near a Microcenter. You can bring in parts and they will help debug. I think they'll also do BIOS upgrades.
That might be the only option if you don't have spare parts.
yes, I'll do that in last resort
yeahhh "no vga detected" sound signal so fine
the positive side of the story is that it doesn't give me the hardware failure signal
19:39
So it doesn't see the video card.
Try a different PCIe slot?
can any slot be used? I used the first one
Should be able to use any slot - even if it's not PCIe3.
Shouldn't be the case here if it's brand new. But some BIOS options let you set which PCIe slots to look for the card and which to skip.
Following this question:
https://stackoverflow.com/q/57063877/1593077
I went at looked at the horrid source of lsof: https://github.com/lsof-org/lsof
And I'd like to say - I'd personally pay a few bucks to the brave soul who rewrites that mess in C++ with proper library use for parsing command-line options, output formatting, etc., no jumble of globals, no more obscure-acronym variable names (Dstkx, Fcntx) etc.
Just saying.
20:02
@einpoklum at that point you might as well go to rust
20:44
hmm weird, If I move the ram I get different error code
in one case it ends with reserved AMI error
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix you might have a bad board
Not necessarily. On some boards, you can't put memory in the 2nd slot for a channel without putting something in the 1st.
So you probably had it right the 1st time, then you moved it to the wrong one.
@Mysticial that would be very odd for the board to actually be able to detect that. Usually it would give you a memory training error if that's the case
the asus manual show "recommended" position of the ram but doesn't say if it's required
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix it is
most mobos these days are daisy chain topology which means that the recommended slots need to be filled first or it causes RF issues
20:51
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix There are multiple "not-recommended" ways to populate them that will still work.
but I have a feeling that my ram could be the culprit
For example, if you have one stick, it wants it in the 1st slot of channel A. But it will still work in the 1st slot of any channel.
because when I switch ram in the same slot the qcode changes from 10 then 0d to 06 then ad
also technically true... the board should be tolerant of the RF
20:52
try one stick only?
tried but I get either one of those two codes
but it doesn't get better than that
the recommended slot is just the ones that reduce RF the most
has the CPU been reseated recently?
taken out of the socket or resocketed
nop
it was new and put only once
20:54
and the VRM next to the RAM looks ok?
I'd be very surprised if it didn't...
A voltage regulator module (VRM), sometimes called processor power module (PPM), is a buck converter that provides a microprocessor the appropriate supply voltage, converting +5 V or +12 V to a much lower voltage required by the CPU, allowing processors with different supply voltage to be mounted on the same motherboard. == Overview == Some voltage regulator modules are soldered onto the motherboard, while others are installed in an open slot designed especially to accept modular voltage regulators. Some processors, such as Intel Haswell CPUs, feature voltage regulation components on the same...
the board is clean and no sign of heat so I'd say yes, but hard to tell where it is
some parts are enclosed under heat sinks
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix usually VDDR is just outboard of the slots, without heatsinks
usually a single phase or two phase on high end boards
but for some reasons, I feel the manual has the wrong codes as the board beep one long time and 2 short time but it's not explained anywhere
21:22
ahhh I think i got it
8 x DIMM, Max. 128GB, DDR4 3600(O.C.)/3466(O.C.)/3333(O.C.)/3200(O.C.)/3000(O.C.)/2800(O.C.)/2666/2400/2133 MHz ECC

I have 3200 DIMM but I guess I can't use them as it is marked as "OC for over clocked"
But I guess it should still be able to enter bios otherwise it wouldn't be possible to configure ...
It should enter the BIOS as 2133.
It won't run at 3200 until you turn on XMP or some manual overclock.
ok so 3200mhz is really the maximum speed I can make them run but they'll work at lower speed
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Right. So assuming your BIOS has everything at stock, it should boot at the stock speed - which is 2133.
Have you tried resetting the CMOS?
yup
I don't have many more cards to play there
And you have no other DDR4 sticks to borrow from?
21:33
I'll try to get some service tomorrow
at least it should be easy to test individual pieces like ram and video card
ok yes
apparently it's probably the ram
I found that there are error lights..
the dram is the only one that is still up
the ram is the only piece of hardware I could buy without RGB, obviously that's the problem
21:59
ok wtf, it booted
I think the mobo is broken
and the ram
If I put working ram in the first recommend slot it doesn't work
if I put a working ram in the second slot it boots
the weird thing is... I've been switching ram for over an hour and then it started making less beep and not it boots in one case but not in the other with the same stick
22:30
just keep switching until you get a single short beep
ahh yeah now both ram works
is it possible that there was a small layer of oxide on connectors?
22:42
everything is fine
@Mgetz I'm not much of a fan of rust. Also, the idea is to allow for that code to be used elsewhere in C++ (and maybe even C) system-oriented code, which a rust rewrite won't help.
@einpoklum you follow any particular style guide when it comes to naming conventions?
 
1 hour later…
23:55
My biphasic sleep schedule brought me a step closer to coffee driven apotheosis. For every day you plebs live, I live two.
Also we should curate a C++ anti patterns list
Sadly, its only Tuesday but I'm on like Thursday :-)

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