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12:29 AM
> Implemented a fast path for binary I/O in iostreams, quadrupling bulk I/O performance.
 
12:44 AM
@Mysticial spun up a docker container with ATLAS, and checked my ldd:
./main
Time elapsed : 74.8051
Time elapsed : 1.93216
Time elapsed : 3.06775
root@b992d551df2f:/mnt/home/cpp/matrix_multiply# ldd main
	linux-vdso.so.1 (0x00007fffcbbd5000)
	libcblas.so.3 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libcblas.so.3 (0x00007f1005cc8000)
	libstdc++.so.6 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libstdc++.so.6 (0x00007f100593a000)
	libm.so.6 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libm.so.6 (0x00007f100559c000)
	libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x00007f1005384000)
	libc.so.6 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 (0x00007f1004f93000)
libatlas and its corresponding libcblas is linked properly. It may be due to the high level xtensor API against blas which makes it slower
I checked assembly for DCE and there was none. I also added an assert that the two matrices were the same.
 
1:45 AM
If you don't get the expected results you're doing something wrong. Its trivial to find benchmarks making the exact comparison you're making.
ATLAS has wacky build requirements, like you need to disable any clock tuning when building it.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:18 AM
0
A: Overload selection with parameter pack and perfect forwarding

iBugThe answer to this question might be a bit complicated. I'll try to be simpler. It appears that, after reference collpasing, the candidates for overload resolutions are write(const T&) and write(T&), both with T = int and the second one has U... = (none). This way, the latter one is picked and t...

I don't even know if my answer is correct... help?
 
 
3 hours later…
6:40 AM
There is a noisy miner chirping no stop outside the window ...
 
@Mysticial Is it possible that a CPU upgrade causes a program to run slower because more cores can lead to greater physical distance leading to higher latencies? (Single socket, no numa.)
 
also check the clocks, aka 28 core system has slower clocks
 
The v4 fails a performance test that was originally designed for the v3.
It's minor <5%. But still strange.
 
6:57 AM
You know what else is strange?
 Incubation is by the female only, although up to twenty male helpers take care of the nestlings and fledglings.
 
Pretty hard to set this kind of test up in a controlled environment, depending on the test, you could get a +/- percentage by using different ram, etc.
 
It's a network packet rate test. Packets go out the NIC, through two switches and then back in the other port of the NIC. So I need to weaken the tests a bit in order to avoid false positives caused by packet loss.
So minor regressions <1% may not be detected. However, this one seems to fail consistently with ~2-3% regression.
I suppose I'll have to investigate :)
 
7:27 AM
I need to find a robotic arm that can be controlled by a raspberry pi and does not cost an arm and a leg.
Anything up to $2000, preferably less.
Surely some people are going to object ...
 
7:46 AM
Why do we write typedef int A[10]; to define A as datatype of array of int of size 10 and why dont we write it as typedef int[10] A; ?
 
no
I write using A = std::array<int, 10>; because I'm not terrible
 
7:59 AM
I write new int[10]; because I just want to watch the world burn.
 
nwp
Do you even malloc?
2
 
@Puppy I am required to use it in my college, dear cutey
@StackedCrooked well i dont want to burn the world
 
@StackedCrooked You want other peoples world to burn, not your own world to burn. You don't want to become a roasted badger.
 
nwp
@jeea Get a better college (That's mostly a joke. All colleges and universities tend to be terrible at C++).
 
@nwp I am in college which is ranking is top 5 in my country :d
@nwp and I should say you are correct, my college is not good for most things
 
nwp
8:12 AM
That is very unfortunate. One would think such a college would know about the things they teach.
 
They ask good question in papers and assignment, but teaching is not at all comparable. I have to refer stackexchange and stackovreflow, etc
 
Does anyone know if a robotic part can be controlled by Arduino, can you substitute Arduino with a Raspberry Pi?
 
GPIO pins are pretty standardized in what they can do
 
I take the answer as a yes then.
 
IIRC the only thing that the rPi lacks compared to the arduino is analogue reads
 
9:13 AM
Some guy proposed the most convoluted implementation of C++ properties to date, involving a new language features x)
 
And here's your 20 year's flashback again: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/e7fd31d8f2a5dc47sehe 21 secs ago
It's like a car wreck. Can't disengage
@jeea argumentum ad pecuniam
Also, I don't know why no-one just took your head for that "dear cutey". What are you aiming to achieve with things like that anyways.
 
Hey, GCC just implemented Allowing Virtual Function Calls in Constant Expressions
 
I guess iff they can devirt
s/iff/because/ might be more accurate
That's pretty awesome actually. Also, I appreciate that you're still using the lounge. Are you /also/ discording?
 
Apparently in a constexpr context you know your actual types, so calling virtual functions is not a problem
I'm also using Discord, but less so at work :p
 
Still awesome.
(leaving the ambiguity of the response)
 
9:23 AM
I never wanted to leave SO chat tbh
 
Me neither. I think the challenges with the openness are actually a feature.
 
Discord also has interesting features
 
On paper yes there are a number of benefits of not depending on the SE network, but I really don't think the proposition with Discord is that much better
@Morwenn Have a top 2 (or 3)?
 
Discord makes it easier to share nudes :p
I sometimes like the tons of rooms classed by categories in a single server (but sometimes I also like it when it's random cross-conversations in a single room)
 
Ever looked at zulipchat.com ? It seems that they got this down to a beat
 
9:27 AM
It's not much, but I also like its emoji (+ custom ones) support because it makes it easier to convey specific emotions ^^
I actually never look at chat clients, I just go where the people I'm interested in are x)
 
That's a huge fallacy. It doesn't convey any emotion accurately due to the fatal flaws of emojis
 
@sehe That's a fallacy I enjoy having at hand
 
@Morwenn That's my main take too. But it helps if gifs and emojis are not common place.
@Morwenn You don't know what they look like at the receiving end, neither does the receiver know how to interpret them :)
 
@sehe custom ones look the same everywhere
 
No contest about the enjoyment potential - there's a whole consortium about that
@Morwenn Hmm
 
9:29 AM
When you've been on a server for a long time, you know how to interpret them from server culture
 
You don't need emojis for that. Also, discounting the particular disabilities of users (I can't tell emojis apart, like, 95% of the time)
Words don't have that barrier.
But hey. That's small beer
 
Words can been interpreted in a shitton of different ways depending on how you read the non-existing tone of written messages
Sometimes if you don't add something more people will think you're strict, or won't be sure what is ironic
I'm not saying emojis (and smileys) help to totally replace the tone of a sentence, but they certainly do solve ambiguities here and there
Whether I use plenty of smileys and emojis actually depends on who I'm talking with I guess, it's probably better suited for some people but not everyone ^^'
Looks like the next C++20 core feature GCC maintainers will be working on is explicit(bool)
 
9:54 AM
@Morwenn But they can be spelled unambiguously, people can choose a font they can actually see etc.
 
@sehe the actual meaning isn't always in the words alone v0v
 
I know. It's just that whatever you said about intepreting words also goes for emojis
So, I don't think it gains a lot. Except for noisiness ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I need to run
 
I mean, ":)" and ">:(" convey more things than a single exclamation mark
when my father sends me messages I'm never sure whether he's reprimanding me or just excited
 
10:15 AM
Not really, they are mearly placeholders for words that lack the same element of tone
Unlike worlds they aren't uniformly represented across platforms
 
Sometimes I simply answer by "^^" and I wouldn't want to replace that by a word x)
 
What "^^" means exactly ?
 
What "means" means exactly?
 
No fuckin clue, but they been saying it for years
 
It's just a cuter alternative to :)
 
10:28 AM
^^ is my way to refer to the/a previous message
@Morwenn And, everybody able to read text is able to see them
>:( I'll just ignore as noise, just like emojis
 
@sehe I tend to use ^ or ^^^ to avoid the confusion
2
@sehe when I say "emojis" I'm ignoring the fact that they might look different from one terminal to another (I generally avoid them in those contexsts), I'm more thinking of Discord or the old MSN messengers "custom emojis" that are fixed images picked by the user
 
Ok changing a topic ;D
Do you think guys GoLang can replace C++ ?
 
@sehe sometimes you'll only get a smiley as an answer, feel free to ignore it but the alternative is generally no answer at all x)
(and many/most people I interact with don't ignore them so I keep using them)
 
@Morwenn lol. I love the irony
@DawidDrozd Do you
I think GoLang can replace C
 
it's all about context, you don't talk communication without taking context into account
 
10:41 AM
Yeap but if it replaces C it would be something like cutting legs for standing man :D
If C will be eliminated then next will be C++. One of the advantages is connection/reuse C in C++
 
C is the ABI-spoken language, it isn't going away anytime soon
C++ just find new niches to strive every now and then
 
@Morwenn Good point. But still people want something new but they don't realize that something new don't have to be better :/
 
If people really wanted new things, it wouldn't have taken 20 years for C99 to actually be widely used x)
 
Ok so where currently C++ in your opinion has "golden age" ?
Because I was thinking about it and this is what I get:
- games (yeah performance still matters)
- banking etc.(performance)
- DB/engines

- AI ? Yeah writing "engine" but this is like telling I will be web developer with C++ knowledge because web browsers are written in C++
 
I don't want to have that discussion, there are already plenty of elements of answer on the internet -__-
 
nwp
10:46 AM
emscripten to the rescue
 
ok then sorry ^^
 
@Morwenn Of course. My eyesight, however, doesn't depend (much) on context
@DawidDrozd What. "is connection/reuse C in C++"?
@DawidDrozd Lots of new things are better. So that argument already doesn't win for decades
@Morwenn ^
@DawidDrozd It had golden ages, and it will probably have other ones
 
11:20 AM
I mean you can use C in C++ easily connect them two.
 
@sehe I don't I think golang is its own hot mess of garbage
 
11:37 AM
@Mgetz most newfangled languages are a mess of garbage
 
@ratchetfreak agreed, but golang in particular seems to have serious flaws in its streams system. Which seems was originally intended for communication between goroutines
 
Maybe mess will disappear in Golang 2 but still C++ is back compatible for so many years. Sometimes I wish they drop some super old stuff.
 
@DawidDrozd we'll see, one of the things I like about golang is gofmt
 
We have clang format :)
 
not even close to the same
 
11:44 AM
Yeah of course they, make some decisions mandatory for all devs and they integrated this solutions in language
What do you mean ? What gofm offers ?
I used it and didn't catch anything briliant
 
so gofmt will actually transform no-longer compliant code into compliant code
so when they change idiom it automatically updates you
 
hmmm ok thats killer feature :D
 
until it kills your program because you relied on that edge case the new idiom doesn't support
 
I am trying to convert a given square matrix into row echleon form and then ultimately find determinant
 
@jeea CBLAS?
 
11:54 AM
But in finding row echleon form, sometimes we encounter division by zero:
@Mgetz we need to make a function to compute determinant of 5*5 matrix.
 
@jeea CBLAS
 
It is asked in my assignment to use 2d array only, I have made one using recursion and 1d flattened array, but I needed to use 2d array
@Mgetz I am needed to write my own function!
 

C++ Questions and Answers

Solve problems and approach solutions. Just ask and lurkers wi...
 
I just needed to know how can I properly go for finding row echleon form
@Mgetz thank you! I understand that generally CBLAS is used in cpp for such functoins.
 
@Mgetz clang-tidy tries that
 
11:57 AM
Ill ask on your linked chat
 
12:18 PM
@sehe your capacity to interpret shit does
Aaaannd that's it: I don't use smileys and when I reread sentences like my previous one it only feels aggressive -__-
 
12:34 PM
Yeah I completely hate you now :)
 
now? :p
 
@Morwenn rofl :##$&*)
 
 
3 hours later…
3:24 PM
@DawidDrozd I don't think it's a viable replacement for either C or C++. It works well as a fast, thread-safe Python. Compared to either C or C++, however, it's pretty slow, generally unusable in kernel mode (so can't replace C) and too type-poor to be a reasonable alternative to most use of C++.
 
@StackedCrooked The upgrade is from Haswell to Broadwell?
 
 
1 hour later…
4:39 PM
 
@jeea use Mathematica's CForm command. Copy+paste -> ???? - > Profit.
 
 
2 hours later…
Oh, it's a networking test. We've seen the same shit. It's because Broadwell has a slower cache.
 
Really?
 
But Intel doesn't show cache speeds on ark since they've been getting slower each generation since Haswell.
The test to confirm the hypothesis was very simple. Get an overclockable Broadwell and change the cache speeds.
If you think the Haswell -> Broadwell one is bad, wait to till you see Broadwell -> Skylake Server.
 
Strange. Any idea why they are making slower caches?
 
To save power.
 
6:42 PM
@Mysticial Damn.
@Mysticial Ah.
 
We were quite pissed at Intel and we let them know when we had a meeting with them.
They said the cache isn't going to get any faster for Cascade Lake. And given the trend seems like it will continue to get slower.
 
Is overclocking sanctioned by Intel?
 
It's not supported on the servers.
A lot of other HFT firms are hoarding Broadwell servers because they know that Skylake is unusable.
And Intel is going to discontinue Broadwell sometime in the next year or so.
 
Bummer.
 
Admittedly, the Intel's cache's have been overkill in speed during the Haswell-era.
But they've slowed it down so much that it's having a noticeable impact on both my personal stuff (throughput HPC) and a huge impact on HFT.
If this continues, Intel is going to start losing customers. And we let them know that. :)
 
6:46 PM
Have you tried Epyc?
 
It's on our list.
 
Same :)
 
Funny thing is that they put me in charge of all this testing since I have the most background for it. And I made the call to say no to Skylake. Show management the numbers, and they accepted my decision.
 
Cool.
Well. They can't argue with that.
 
Also that my results were consistent with what other firms were doing according to our "spies".
 
6:50 PM
We have sold a lot of Haswell servers to our customers. Maybe we should ask them to send them back when they upgrade to a newer model.
 
haha
Are your customers HFT firms?
 
No. Cable modem production in China.
 
ah
 
They test their modems using our traffic generator software.
I'm also hoping to convince my boss to design a system where they become distcc build servers when not used for anything else.
 
It's like we know Intel is trying to make their shit more power-efficient. But there's only so much performance you can take away before you start pissing off your customers.
 
6:54 PM
And then AMD starts to look more attractive.
 
yeah
 
In our case we're upgrading to 40G. Which means that we'll need to distribute the work over multiple cores. So single core performance might becomes less important.
 
I'm willing to give Intel a pass on a 1st generation mesh. But they can't keep making it worse.
They've already forced all the gamers onto the low-end which still uses the ring bus.
Maybe Intel is trying to bifurcate their lineup as "low latency" vs. "high throughput".
Where high-throughput means fuck you to all latency. Might as well just call it a GPU or a Xeon Phi.
 
DPDK has been notably silent on the issue. I wonder how come :)
 
Intel has this team that goes around their high-volume customers to help them fix their workload that regresses from Broadwell -> Skylake.
Everybody just tells them their cache is shit.
It's funny because I blogged about Intel's cache being shit on like week 1 of the Skylake X launch. (since I jumped on it for the AVX512) 3 months later, we started seeing it at work with our sample Skylake boxes.
 
7:16 PM
@Mysticial L3 cache? Or also L1/L2?
 
Just the L3.
L1 and L2 are good.
Problem is that if you're going to send something over the network, you need to go off-chip. And the only way to go off-chip is over the L3 mesh.
 
In my problem space batching is good. So I can play a lot with that.
I once found that introducing small sleeps increased performance. I suspect it's because it leads to larger batch sizes combined with reduced thermal throttling.
But I suppose you can't afford that :P
 
What about pauses?
The pause instruction.
 
I also use them. But haven't experimented much with them.
I wonder how much a hyperthread that spins on pause would hinder its sibling.
 
It's non-zero. But it's better than hard spinning.
 
7:27 PM
It seems attractive to offload some jobs to the sibling. Like managing timers.
The problem is that I'm meeting all performance requirements. So there's no drive :P
 
Ah, the joys of "fast enough" vs. "as fast as possible".
The latter seems to be a very difficult concept for a lot of people.
Can't blame them since everyone is brainwashed into only one way of thinking when it comes to performance.
 
@StackedCrooked at this point hyperthreading is almost harmful on intel chips
 
@Mgetz My Pi benchmark is worse on the 9900K than the 9700K for fewer than 500 million digits.
 
@Mysticial is that the one they disabled hyperthreading on?
 
yeah
9700K = 8/8
9900K = 8/16
 
7:37 PM
@Mysticial why 500million digits though? What's different about 1bil? does it become memory bandwidth constrained at that point?
 
@Mgetz I don't know for sure. Even 250 million digits is large enough for full utilization of 16 vcores. So bandwidth does seem like a reasonable thing to blame.
 
@Mysticial I'd be curious to know how their memory manager handles 16v cores all making requests. With more cores I'd assume there would be higher saturation, but maybe that memory manager is just more capable.
 
In the past on the smaller cores, HT starts helping as soon as the sizes are large enough to get good utilization of all the vcores. (typically 100m or less)
But the software prefetching has gotten a lot more aggressive over the past year. And this is probably disproportionately helping the non-HT case.
@Mgetz They probably have a request queue per channel.
Each address is hashed to a random channel.
Bandwidth is definitely going to be a problem actually. It already is on the 8-core Ryzen. The Intels have “real” AVX units.
Exacerbate that by another factor of 1.5x and you have the situation on Skylake X.
 
8:28 PM
Need to build a few deep learning training rigs for $1k each, maybe try AMD?
 
8:40 PM
@Mikhail Well, AMD is cheaper.
 
@Mikhail Get a bunch of dual-socket Epyc 7601 boxes with 2TB memory each.
 
2018, but Max Boost Clock 3.2GHz
AMD is low on PCIe count right? I haven't built this kind of pleb tier stuff in a while...
 
@Mikhail It's higher than on the Intels.
Single-threaded performance is important too? What about the TR 2990WX? Put it under liquid nitrogen and you'll get above 3.2 GHz.
 
I have a liquid nitrogen hookup in my lab...
 
perfect, use it!
 
8:53 PM
But teh condensation
 
That's what heating pads are for.
You put them on the back side of the mobo. On the front side, you coat it.
 
Oh, I get it, put the heating pad on the CPU, to prevent the temperature from going to low
 
To prevent condensation around the socket area.
 
I got a bunch of crap tier 2620v3 I found in the dumpster that I need to use though
 
That's not crap-tier. That's shit-tier. They're good for collectors.
My 7940X ES will become a collectors item in a couple years. If/when I disassemble the machine its in, the chip will go on my shelf.
 
9:00 PM
That's like 1 year old
 
But seeing as how it's my most powerful machine atm and I still have my Nehalem i7 920, it'll probably be a while before that happens.
 
Problem is that while AMD has more PCIe lanes, isn't a motherboard that can drive 4 GPUs
 
@Mikhail The TR boards can.
 
is that on new egg?
 
I'm pretty sure most of the high-end X399 boards will do it.
 
9:05 PM
Indeed
 
@Mysticial is that one of the first gen nahalems?
 
@Mgetz yeah
 
@Mysticial is that also the first stepping? Because if that is... it's a screwy chip
 
It's the D0 stepping - the second one.
I didn't jump on Nehalem immediately.
 
ah yeah... so did I ever mention that my school fielded a cluster challenge team in 2008 that was supposed to used nahalem when it was supposed to be announced at SC08?
 
9:13 PM
I recently (a year ago) replaced the PSU on it. And in the process replaced the cooler as well. Since I intend to keep it for years to come.
@Mgetz nope
 
So imagine getting to the floor of the competition and being told you don't have a cluster because intel is pulling your CPUs
 
wut
 
We were on First stepping engineering sample nahalems before intel realized they had a complete loser in silicon
 
ooh
 
we were getting wildly random results and it was screwing with our infiniband setup
which is why consumer nahalem shipped first
because intel knew those customers wouldn't give a crap
seriously... mtrr settings wouldn't stick at all
 
9:16 PM
interesting. The only thing I heard between the C0 and D0 stepping was the overclockability.
 
Oh god no C0 is absolute garbage if it's still the same masking as what we were using
 
With the D0 stepping, they added the 975.
 
were were on ostensible xeons but still
QPI played hell with things
we would get random lag spikes
 
The initial Ryzens with the segfault bug...
At least my RMA went through.
 
It wouldn't have mattered, Indiana was able to get a full extra node in for two days by doing a crazy 240 splice on the two 120 lines we were given
the building folks eventually caught on and shut them down
 
9:19 PM
what?
 
but until then... they had easily way more power than everybody else
challenge was basically as much computing power as you can fit on two 15A 120V lines
 
ah
 
Indiana realized that 240 makes the PSUs a lot more efficient (duh)
and literally used a suicide cord to splice them together
after checking the wave forms
 
suicide cord?
 
cord with a plug on one side... and bare wires on the other
 
9:21 PM
oh
 
or in this case two of them
Yeah.. but they didn't get penalized really in any way other than losing that extra node later on
 
I think in most places in the US, you get 240 AC across the hot-wires on a typical dual 120V socket. Since they run in opposite phase.
Though I'd have check.
 
@Mysticial you do, but the phasing isn't guaranteed to be 180
 
oh
 
9:59 PM
@Mgetz May not be guaranteed, but at least in residences, it'd be incredibly rare to see anything else. They normally get the 240 with a center-tapped transformer with the center tap grounded, so you get two hots and a ground, and the hots are always 180 degrees out of phase.
 
10:21 PM
Getting one of these, probably will be running training 24/7 docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/…
These ASUS 10G adapters seem to work as good as the Intel/Startek stuff and cost half the price...
 
@Mikhail Won't let me view it. SSL error at work. Requires sign-on for my phone.
 
10:45 PM
Problem is that the overhead came out to be more than I wanted
Also the price was 1488 :-/
 
SSL error at work. Works on my phone.
I'm assuming the computing power is GPUs?
 
Yeah
So, only 45% of total cost goes to computing power
 
Does Pascal have DL acceleration?
 
No, in the sense that it isn't the new feature nvidia is advertizing
But memory throughput pushes these guys like 8x faster than a really good CPU
 
If all you're using is the GPU, you can probably get away with the lowest end Ryzen?
Or is there no cost difference?
 
10:52 PM
Might shave off $80
So, if I go really low tier it might be possible to shave off $300 bucks which brings overhead to about 1:1
Probably the only way to do this correctly is to build something that looks like this: amazon.com/Aluminum-Mining-Case-Frame-ZCash/dp/B073SMF21G/…
 
Also, use PCPP. Not some stupid Google Docs shit. :)
 
I gotta send this to our secretary to actually buy
 
PCPP is too unprofessional? :)
 
much better :)
 
11:02 PM
Yeah, so the only way to reduce overhead is to add GPUs, which is going to blow the budget
Daddy needs a new pair of GFP tagged mice!
Trick is to get a male and female
 
11:51 PM
ahahaha
 

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