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12:02 AM
@Mikhail I mean, for me it does not make sense if some children use a subset (not complete) of the attributes of the abstract class and other use another subset (not complete). But its ok. Thank you
 
12:49 AM
Whoever taught you OOP should be shot
 
1:21 AM
So, I got this brilliant idea. Color cameras are just gray scale cameras that have been interpolated. JPEG + other compression algorithms are not aware of this. What if we do compression on the raw Bayer readout, and perform the 3 channel demosaicing when displaying it?
In principle, the compression algorithm should implicitly account for the natural sparsity of the data, but I'm not sure this happens in practice.
For one, methods like JPEG have the indexing, overhead associated with three channels.
 
I think we should form a startup making pattern recognizing, distance calculating, machine learning twin cam imagine processing system.
to simulating human/cheetah eyes
 
2:24 AM
@WithoutNameZin It depends somewhat on what you mean by "use". The usual rule for determining whether inheritance makes sense is the Liskov substitution principle. It says you should only use inheritance if it's entirely reasonable to substitute an instance of the (proposed) child class anywhere/anytime an instance of the parent class is expected. If that's not the case, inheritance (at least public inheritance) is probably a mistake.
@Mikhail Most JPEG actually fits pretty well with Bayer. In particular, it's pretty routine for the chrominance channels to be sampled at half the spatial resolution of the luminance channel, which fits precisely with a Bayer pattern before de-mosaicing.
 
2:44 AM
@JerryCoffin Thank you! The person who asked me to do this work didn't tell me how we will use the classes, so, I can't know if it's the case. I need to contact him.
 
 
2 hours later…
4:51 AM
@JerryCoffin Currently BW->Color->Compress why not BW->Compress->Color? Actually a cursory google search gives a few scholarly articles on this. A sufficient quantity that I can't publish anything on it :-(
 
 
3 hours later…
7:47 AM
Morning :)
 
25 minutes of anti-harassment training. FML.
 
@Mikhail lol, wtf?
 
8:50 AM
> When reporting on mismatching template types, the C++ compiler will now use color to highlight the mismatching parts of the template, and will elide the parameters that are common between two mismatching templates, printing [...] instead
common parameters elision sounds like a great feature :o
 
Ven
9:24 AM
Hi hi hi
@Morwenn so! how were your holidays? legs still sore?
 
9:42 AM
@Ven my legs are fine and my feet have healed :p
and apparently I don't have any jetlag issue despite the 25h-awake day from Japan to France
It's fun when you wake up at 6am, go to sleep near midnight, but your day was actually way longer than that x)
the trip was great, Japan and the Japanese culture are often weird af, but the trip was real good, I had plenty of strange and fun experiences :)
 
Let me tell you a story
@molbdnilo hahahaha good one!! I was just trying to stress C indeed. I had even tried to use size_t just to see the outcome. — David NIWEWE 11 mins ago
Pesachoice bill payment solution will solve this problem, for Africa, by shifting the power back into the customers hands.
:-/
 
Ven
@Morwenn sounds fun and interesting
 
@Ven it was :D
 
Ven
too much walking for me to handle; though.
 
we only walked 5~15km a day, but my body became super weak so it was hard for me xD
I think I got a few muscles back in my legs thanks to the trip, but not that much
 
Ven
9:56 AM
if it hurts you know it's helping :P
 
not when it's because of blisters >.>
my feet hurt for 2 weeks before I was able to walk normally again
 
Ven
oh shit, those are bad
 
haha yeah, we almost missed a bus because of my feet ^^'
it didn't prevent us from walking everyday though, it was just super painful and slower than it could have been, but at least we've seen plenty of interesting stuff
 
Ven
Pas de porter-princesse ? : ^)
 
wat
 
Ven
10:07 AM
nvm
@Morwenn was it easy enough to understand stuff?
 
@Ven in Japanese? I don't understand Japanese at all ^^'
my sister did all the talking & reading when Japanese was involved
 
 
2 hours later…
A new study in finds that the average adult over age 30 contract the flu just twice every 10 years
I wonder if there are any adult aged 35 and over who never had flu
 
@TelKitty does that include effect of vaccination?
 
no idea, also:
According to Reuters, the data suggest that many other "flu-like illnesses" like coughs and colds are caused by non-influenza bugs, like rhinoviruses and coronaviruses.
 
 
5 hours later…
5:12 PM
0
Q: SO chat seems to be bugged/hacked.

Martin JamesSomething mega-weird is happening on some SO chats. SOCVR and SObotics, for two. Accounts are getting mixed up and a bot seems to be involved. Nobody is sure who anyone is anymore. I hope this posts under my own account, (Martin James), because I'm having some kind of multiple-personality diso...

wut
 
Does anybody here have experience with Dapper?
 
nwp
@Mysticial [racist slur] <- totally wasn't me!
Also deleted
 
@Mysticial any thoughts on Jim Keller joining Intel?
 
@Mgetz Yeah, it's called, "WTF"?
 
5:27 PM
@Mysticial I suspect he got offered WTF money
 
I hope he doesn't do away with the SIMD stuff. Those are fun to play with.
 
@Mysticial why would he?
tbf He's focused on SOCs
 
@Mgetz It gets in the way of the rest of the CPU. (clock downs, TDP, die spare/area)
 
@Mysticial yeah and you can offload quite a bit of it to the GPU
in the mobile market especially he might not, I see your point
 
There's a lot of people who see AVX512 as a cancer that needs to go before it spreads too far. And you can't blame them. The clock downs are too ridiculous.
There's one thing that I'm quite ticked off about is how Intel chooses to massive AVX512 throttles even in the absence of that 2nd FMA.
 
5:37 PM
@Mysticial I would be one of them
 
Without that 2nd FMA, the core is identical to the desktop core. There's no reason to throttle it from a practical standpoint.
But I suspect they do it anyway to make sure that single FMA chips can never outperform the dual-FMA chips. Because it's very possible that a non-throttled single-FMA chip will perform better than a throttled dual-FMA chip. Especially if the AVX512 usage is light - which it is in the majority of cases right now.
 
I hate marketing departments
 
5:52 PM
@Mgetz The big problem with the AVX512 clockdown is that the chip does it too aggressively. Assuming the purpose of the clockdown is to be able to power-on the extra FMA, then the chip needs to be smarter with deciding when to actually do that vs. just keeping the extra FMA off. It can probably make that decision by observing the density of the heavy AVX512 instructions. Right now, it seems to do it on any amount of it.
Though I've yet to properly test if my last sentence is true.
 
6:03 PM
@Mysticial To me the major issue with AVX512 is that it's better served by other tools. I think Intel would be better off using special instructions that under the hood talk to the IRIS pro units and do the vector functionality there at that point
that silicon is designed specifically for that sort of use case
 
@Mgetz What's the latency to get from the IRIS pro units to the CPU?
If it's anything more than like 2 cycles, I'm gonna guess it's not gonna be helpful to move all the AVX512 there.
The other problem is that crossing clock domains at anything that isn't a fixed integer ratio is probably gonna cost more than a few cycles of latency.
 
@Mysticial I think you'd have to do them as async, not because of the latency but because of scheduling
 
I actually deployed a program that used both avx and ocl at once for integrated gpus. Worked surprisingly well but still an order of magnitude worse in wall time than using an actual Nvidia gpus.
 
@Mysticial Almost seems like it should be an extra tag in the (trace?) cache. As we execute a sequence, we increment a counter for every FMA instruction, and decrement it for any other instruction. Store that count in the cache. When we're loading from the cache, we check the count, and only clock down and use the AVX512 hardware when/if the count exceeds some threshold. So, if you're using it heavily, you lose out on the first iteration of a loop, but get the benefit on subsequent iterations.
But you never clock down for sequences that use it lightly enough that you'd have been better off just simulating with AVX 2 hardware.
Then again, perhaps that's roughly how they do things, and they just set the threshold lower than it really should be (which would benefit things like benchmarks that use it heavily, at the expense of real code that uses it more lightly).
 
@Mikhail this to me seems like my major objection, for the things that AVX512 could do well... in most cases the datasets are large enough that GPUs make sense
and the latency for things that don't fit that mold isn't enough to justify the jump
 
6:18 PM
@JerryCoffin The tracking window would have to be very large. The typical case would be that you call some library that spams AVX512 for a couple microseconds. Then you go back to scalar code for the next few milliseconds. Something like that (which I presume is going to be very common) is going to prefer no throttle with the extra FMA staying off.
Or you add yet another prediction mechanism in the chip to predict when it will be using AVX512 and adjust the on/off state of the FMA along with the clock speed accordingly.
 
6:30 PM
> Schade, dass Jesus nicht mit einem Feuerlöscher erschlagen worden ist. […]
one reaction to the requirement of displaying a cross in every public building in Bavaria
 
nwp
> Too bad Jesus wasn't clobbered to death with a fire-extinguisher.
 
@Mysticial That's basically what this would be--the counter would be pretty much like the counter the Pentium used for branch prediction. But yeah, that a single cache line is probably too fine of granularity for the basis of a meaningful prediction.
 
@Mgetz GPUs have easy to use fast local memory and good price point. Now when you don't that use that fast local memory you get similar performance to mulicore cpu. The latencies aren't too big. Typically under half an ms. Because the iris isnt powerful, I suspect you could beat it with avx.
 
@nwp Hey--don't be so hard to Jesus. He's the best janitor our office has had in quite a while.
 
@Mikhail I guess I'd rather they spent the silicon making Iris pro less shit
 
6:38 PM
Then it will run too hot :-)
 
@Mikhail and AVX won't?
 
:-)
 
To me putting it where it's more useful seems like the better choice
and gives a better experience
that way I can throttle IRIS pro when necessary without throttling the CPU
 
Well, the newer iris can decode 4k videos, most people don't want more than that
But I suspect the underlying performance bottlenecks can be viewed as a power density problem, aka 14nm node can only deliver X amount of FLOPs per die area
That's why GPUs are massive
But also I think there is a lot of use of AVX512 in user land, although with the 700 MHz downclock, wall times might change by only 10%. And MS doens't want to deploy it...
 
if you took a quarter of that.... you'd be more than powerful
the major constraint at that point would be the ram/GPU pipe
unless you did dedicated GDDR5 on the motherboard
 
6:43 PM
@Mgetz thats twice as big as a normal chip at, 180 mm^2
 
@Mikhail gotta pay for what you use, IIRC AVX 512 is a good chunk of the current intel dies
my point is that I'd prefer that area going to IRIS pro
 
Yeah, but its mostly used for cooling :-)
 
@Mikhail Twice as big and a higher percentage devoted to computation, rather than caching, memory management unit, etc.
 
@Mgetz I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't mind that
 
@Mgetz 10 - 20% IIRC.
 
6:45 PM
though cooling that might be an issue
 
@Mysticial that's pretty significant honestly, and you could probably beat the crap out of AVX 512 with dedicated GDDR on the mobo
 
@Mgetz The argument is that the total throughput can't change without getting a bigger die due to the thermal constraints.
 
you don't even need a ton... 1-2gb
 
But it's 10 - 20% of high power density die area. Stuff like cache is low density.
 
@Mikhail I'm actually not disagreeing, I'm just suggesting putting it where I think it would be more useful
basically shifting a line on a chip so to speak
 
7:12 PM
You can shift it, but you can't get better performance - if you believe that FLOPs are thermally limited.
It might be better spent on cache or pipeline depth...
 
@Mikhail Or bandwidth limited...
 
PCIe?
 
DDR
both actually
 
@Mysticial hence the suggestion for 1-2Gb of GDDR on the board
@Mikhail I actually don't think you can get better performance. I honestly don't think that's the best choice either. If you need serious number crunching get a GPU not a CPU. I guess my point is that SIMD width should be based on the bandwidth calc to go to a GPU, and not on optimal flops from an intel CPU.
 
nwp
7:31 PM
Jay Hanlon on April 26, 2018

Let’s start with the painful truth:

Too many people experience Stack Overflow¹ as a hostile or elitist place, especially newer coders, women, people of color, and others in marginalized groups.

Our employees and community have cared about this for a long time, but we’ve struggled to talk about it publicly or to sufficiently prioritize it in recent years. And results matter more than intentions.

Now, that’s not because most Stack Overflow contributors are hostile jerks. The majority of them are generous and kind. Sure, a few are…  just generous, I guess? But our active users regularly express thei …

 
@nwp no point IMO in even filling out the survey as according to them I'm the problem
I downvote dupes not to hurt people's feelings but to get them deleted
because that's the way the system works
 
nwp
I haven't finished reading it yet, but I'm very confused how that is a "people of color"-problem when nobody can tell your color.
 
wtf does <3 mean?
 
nwp
I guess you are supposed to substitute it with "love".
 
or heart
 
7:35 PM
Wow, this article
 
the problem is that in their attempt to include they are excluding
 
The guy is trying to justify his job
 
damn
I looked at that IAT and it is boolsheet
they asked me to say that history is an art rather than a science
no, motherfuckers, it's a science.
and what does art vs science even have to do with gender biases?
 
SO has an India problem not a black problem
 
He does have some point. Far too often, comments project the idea that if you don't know how to ask a question correctly, you're basically a bad person. That's quite unnecessary. The parts about marginalized communities...sounds a lot more suspect, at least to me--though some study of the stats might show that (for example) a user name of, say, "Susan" or "Prunit" gets clearly less respectful comments than a name like "Joe" or "Bill", even for identical questions.
 
7:41 PM
At least Quora had the balls to call out their real problem instead of this US bend social justice bullshit quora.com/profile/Navin-Kabra/Blog/Quoras-India-Problem
 
@JerryCoffin This is why I favor abstract usernames
 
@JerryCoffin I have to say that I do not understand how it's possible to discriminate against black or female users when ... you can't see if they are black or female.
 
@Puppy You can't, with real certainty. But it's possible that (as I pointed toward) if somebody uses a name that seems likely to indicate a female or Indian (to give only a couple of obvious examples) they are likely to be treated with less respect (regardless of whether that reflects reality).
 
that's true
 
Underlying problem with SO is that its not a place for discussion.
 
nwp
7:46 PM
> Users aren’t “too lazy” to search; searching takes less work than posting.
What?
 
It'd be interesting to do a study, posting (nearly?) identical questions under a number of different account names to see differences in reactions--but I'm far too lazy. Once when somebody implied that it was new users who were (mostly) mistreated I created a dummy account and posted some questions and answers under it. Posts from that account seemed to be receive about the same voting as similar posts under my own account, so I don't think low rep is really a source of problem.
 
If they weren't retarded, they would open a parallel SO were we actuality help new users.
 
@Mikhail One underlying problem (though a broad enough one that you could probably make a case that it covers most of the others).
 
I feel like there are solutions to all these problems, many of which have been propsoed in this chat, but instead they took this characteristically American "sorry for being racist" PR move
 
nwp
I'm torn if I should select "participate in SO" or "have formerly participated in SO".
 
7:57 PM
I can't seem to find Jay Hanlon's SO account, probably he has no clue whats going on.
 
nwp
Interestingly the thing that drove me away from SO was a terrible Q&A that was well received.
 
@nwp Terrible, but still a lot better than the average on places like Yahoo! answers or Quora...
@Mikhail Pretty sure he's an SO employee. Not sure he has a normally visible account. That doesn't mean he really has a clue which direction is up though.
 
nwp
> I have never participated on or visited Stack Overflow or any other Stack Exchange site.
Why do they even have that option?
 
@nwp It gets linked a fair amount, so there probably are a few non-users who stumble across it.
 
uuh...
1
Q: Hide downvotes past zero for low rep users

MgetzDownvotes aren't personal but they can come off as personal to lower rep users that aren't as used to the site and the mechanics of the site. By making it appear that there is a downvote floor of zero to users that aren't as familiar with the site it allows them to not feel like they are being ...

So the OP sees zero while the rest of us need to click to see the negative score?
 
nwp
8:13 PM
That's from the bias test thing they linked.
I wonder where that bias comes from ...
 
@nwp the self fulfilling prophesy?
 
nwp
I hope they at least do a Dark/Good and Light/Bad combo afterwards and compare the time and then deduce that Dark/Bad is faster and therefore easier or something.
Wow, they actually did that.
 
@nwp They did. Unfortunately, meta-tests indicate that this form of testing produces pretty meaningless results. Repeatability is poor--the same people taking the same tests twice a few weeks apart routinely get radically different results.
 
nwp
> Your data suggest a strong automatic preference for Light Skinned People over Dark Skinned People.
Racist confirmed
I like the suggestion at least. "Diversity trainings don't seem to help. Instead focus on strategies such as blind auditions".
 
8:28 PM
@nwp I think a lot of it is a training effect. At least as far as I can see, they always start with the combination where if you do well, you're "racist". Then when you've practiced that for a while and trained yourself to do that, then they reverse things on you, and lo and behold, you don't do as well. In surveys you always randomize the answer order, because people show a strong preference for the first answers shown. If anything, this needs randomization even worse.
@nwp Actually, the bits of research I've seen seem to indicate it's worse than that implies. Diversity training actually does harm.
 
9:11 PM
No system with downvoting, and close-as-duplicate (or "putting on hold") will ever truly be considered "welcoming". Nor should it be.
3
 
9:40 PM
@nwp Blind auditions are fair, but they tend to lead to opposite of the desired result, in the sense that historically underrepresented minorities remain under represented.
 
nwp
Yeah, they talked about that on the SO podcast. 95% of applicants are white males, so assuming an unbiased hiring process and equal competence of applicants you hire ~95% white males.
Although I'm probably misremembering the statistic.
Jul 1 '11 at 16:57, by Martinho Fernandes
76.37% of statistics are made up on the spot.
ancient times
 
I might have to mentor a few "under represented" minorities this semester. Its a problem because they are years behind their peers, but for some reason we keep teaching them confidence instead of actual skills.
 
This made me visit stackoverflow.blog/2018/04/26/… Where Jay Hanlon suggests a very "Eye opening" IAT (I have no idea what an IAT is).
 
Its a cargo-cult thing, where they are told to act certain ways instead of actual knowledge.
 
Here is your result:

Your data suggest a slight automatic preference for African Americans over European Americans.
 
nwp
9:48 PM
You are slightly anti-racist. Unlike me :(
 
I've acquainted about 3 African-Americans in my life. I find this problematic
 
poor phrasing
:42293447 It would appear that knowing African-Americans is problematic.
 
The questions are so poorly phrased, I have to guess whether my strong belief is max or min on their scale.
 
Anyways, I'm still impressed by Jay Hanlon ability to add a racial twist to one of the few problems that didn't have a racial dimension. Also for calling out the wrong race, if any.
3
 
If you don't know what you measure, the conclusions will be fussy at best.
 
9:53 PM
Now he's going to blog about fixing a problem he started
 
10:24 PM
@nwp If that is the case the accusation I'm testing against, this was probably the test that won the last years shitty test of the shittiest tests competition.
 

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