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12:33 AM
@Borgleader
-3
Q: Would having a romantic relationship matching feature be worthwhile?

two black lines in the middleI'm not personally interested in such a feature, but I just want to put forth the idea of an optional, possibly monetize-able, romantic relationship matching feature for SE users. Is this a good idea? If so, why not?

 
@Mysticial "I see you also like asking questions in the wrong chat rooms... Wanna Bing?"
3
 
@Borgleader That's a pretty good one!
 
1:01 AM
0
A: Would having a romantic relationship matching feature be worthwhile?

Tel autonomous KittyWhy run matchmaking service when real estate services can make more $. Couple hundred dollars for advertising a property is the standard rate where I live. I mean, you get a new job through stackoverflow, then stackoverflow can recommend suitable properties in the area for relocated employees. ...

 
I'm glad I asked though because now we have a record of its low value. 6 out of the 1 million users don't like it. — two black lines in the middle 2 mins ago
 
wuuuuuuuuut
 
 
2 hours later…
2:42 AM
I need to learn how to debug (electronic) hardware ~_~
also my answer is deleted by a CM :'(
 
3:03 AM
-110
Q: Badge suggestion: HATER, LOVER, and FAIR AND BALANCED

Evan CarrollI wanted to suggest three new badges: HATER: If you've downvoted any one person more than 20 times. LOVER: If you've upvoted any one person more than 20 times. FAIR AND BALANCED: If you've upvoted AND downvoted one person more 20 times UP and DOWN. What do you think? Then we would finally kno...

new meaning for the proposed "LOVER" badge
 
3:41 AM
yeah, undying love between stackoverflow and their top trolls
in fact, stackoverflow does not hate trolls, it just has a very high standard on the trolls they allow to exist on this site
 
 
1 hour later…
4:47 AM
11
Q: How can I get clarification for a large set of contradictory answers related to my problem?

WGroleauI needed to do something extremely simple with PHP/mySQL. Tutorials seemed a little too simple, and also were doing something different. Started a Stack Overflow question, read about a half-dozen "may already have your answer" questions (none of which helped). Posted the question, and literally...

I think the real problem here is PHP.
2
 
5:03 AM
 
5:51 AM
how to debug false wiring??
 
@wilx s/ at this game// :-)
 
6:17 AM
@TelautonomousKitty what's the issue? Do you have the grounds connected together?
 
I am getting IO error when trying to calibrate the car on pi
I can remote control the car through ssh
 
6:36 AM
@TelautonomousKitty Multimeter with resistence measuring?
 
I am currently reading manual on which pin is corresponding to what
 
@Cubbi You're probably aware of this by now but cppreference.com is down ("MediaWiki internal error").
 
7:24 AM
@CaptainGiraffe find a former nurse for them and tell them "your move".
 
7:38 AM
Run sudo raspi-config .
Use the down arrow to select 9 Advanced Options.
Arrow down to A7 I2C .
the list only goes to A6 :'(
 
7:55 AM
sudo apt-get install g++-4.9
I am getting errors??
 
8:16 AM
Do you really need newer version?
 
8:32 AM
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
cpp-4.9 : Depends: gcc-4.9-base (= 4.9.2-10+deb8u1) but 4.9.2-10 is installed
gcc-4.9 : Depends: cpp-4.9 (= 4.9.2-10) but 4.9.2-10+deb8u1 is installed
libasan1 : Depends: gcc-4.9-base (= 4.9.2-10+deb8u1) but 4.9.2-10 is installed
 
Ven
8:50 AM
Hi lounge
 
@TelautonomousKitty you seem to already have it installed
 
yeah
but different version of the same thing
not sure what are different in those versions
 
9:46 AM
Exactly. I am all for empirically evaluating an answer/suggestion when it is possible, but if I code according to one of them and my DB doesn't get trashed, that does NOT prove it's an effective way to prevent SQL injection. And after thirty years in software engineering (five of them in SQL), and fixing more bugs by REMOVING code than by adding it, it's hard to believe that it really requires a hundred lines of PHP to pull a single record from a two-column table. — WGroleau yesterday
lol
 
 
3 hours later…
nwp
12:54 PM
> fatal error C1003: error count exceeds 100; stopping compilation
\o/
 
Ven
now now, what did you do to poor compiler?
 
nwp
It is puking all over Windows Kits\8.1\include\shared\sspi.h and I don't even know what that is.
 
@nwp use a newer windows sdk
 
nwp
Apparently you can cause that simply with #include <security.h>.
Security will no longer be included.
 
@nwp ah right you have to do a #define before including that or it spews errors
you have to actually tell it what sort of security you want
 
nwp
1:07 PM
#define SECURITY_WIN32 is not enough
but if you #include <Windows.h> first it's fine.
 
1:18 PM
my autonomous (toy) car is progressing ... it does stuff when I ssh into it and control it through command line :p
 
1:36 PM
@TelautonomousKitty are you using rpi for motor control directly?
 
if it's supposed to react to stuff quickly I'd consider a separate board for control
linux isn't really a great RTOS :P
 
there is an includeOS branch for rPI IIRC
which will let you do real time without any linux crap in your way
though you will lose the ability to simply ssh in
 
 
1 hour later…
you're not 30k, summing up all your answers is not how you do it :)
 
@klmr Looks like it might be (partially) generated code https://micans.org/apparix//src/apparix-07-261/src/apparix.c We really should ask Stijn (pictured). His "odd software" list doesn't include this item, though. He has a very nifty contact page :)
@KonradRudolph @BartekBanachewicz so, "apparix" is another CLI dir navigation utility
 
@sehe oh, interesting
 
3:29 PM
-7
Q: Tricky And Programmatically Given Answer

Parth PrajapatiI have 25 Ball. Then I want To convert Into over . Using Looping or Algorithm etc . Answer We all Knows 4.1 But How to make it Programmatically.

what the shit /cc @Mysticial @milleniumbug
That question looks like the output of a markov chain bot trained on closed SO questions. — Borgleader 20 secs ago
 
Got it. 25 balls in cricket is 4 overs and 1 ball into the 5th. You solution is to use integer division and modulus. — Bathsheba 1 min ago
ahahahahahaha xD
 
@Borgleader omg
 
Ven
@Borgleader THOSE TAGS
 
@Borgleader he actually got it
the Q was just edited
 
3:41 PM
Someone save this for posterity
I thought he was just messing around
 
user image
3
there you go
oh and actually
Originally it stated:
Tricky And Programmatically Given Answer
I have 25 Ball. Then I want To convert Into over . Using Looping or Algorithm etc . Answer We all Knows 4.1 But How to make it Programmatically.
please make the room topic Answer We all Knows
 
@sehe 258/1102 for me (23%). Mostly self-deletions.
 
W00t. I think it's merely how the site works. I admit I didn't realize it's actually easily 10% of posts, but hey. It still works the same as before, whether I do realize it or not
 
Ven
Mysticial deletes any posts under 100 upvotes
9
 
3:53 PM
Touchées
 
@Borgleader wow you weren't joking about a markov chain
 
@Mysticial I have 89, also mostly self-deleted
also upvoted and community-deleted
 
I got 59, most self or from the question being deleted
 
 
2 hours later…
5:27 PM
How can people have such non-obvious opinions and present them as truth without any reservation: "Here's the way this works". Yeah. Right.
 
user1804599
5:57 PM
hi guyzles
 
user1804599
hi @BartekBanachewicz
 
6:14 PM
Hi you
 
6:56 PM
@rightfold Hello.
@sehe They watched Star Wars once too often, so their mantra is now: "Trust your feelings!"
Who needs facts when you have have feelings?
 
hello guys

I've got a secret message from a friend.
It's in hexadecimal.
I've tried decoding by converting it to ASCII but it had no meaning.
Do you have any ideas so that I test that?
 
no.
 
7:57 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Why not just use an 8080? There's no real reason, I just kind like the appeal of doing from such basic parts
Also, did I miss some context?
 
8:08 PM
BITCHES!!! It's time!!! Start voting on where you you want to have Uncon this year
4
someone pin plz
 
8:59 PM
@thecoshman Tempted to un-pin since you didn't include any choice I can possibly take... :-)
 
@JerryCoffin Did you nominate such a place?
 
@thecoshman Yes.
 
Really?
 
Yes, really.
 
Also, bleh, America :P
 
9:04 PM
'Murica!
 
But you should totally come to the Mother Land to meet up :D
 
@thecoshman If you can convince my wife, I'd be happy for an excuse to visit Europe again.
 
@JerryCoffin Erm, "You get some time away form him"
 
4f 66 20 63 6f 75 72 73 65 2e 20 4e 6f 20 70 72 6f 62 6c 65 6d 2e 20 57 65 27 72 65 20 61 6c 6c 20 70 73 79 63 68 69 63 73 20 68 65 72 65 2c 20 74 68 65 72 65 66 6f 72 65 20 77 65 20 77 65 72 65 20 61 62 6c 65 20 74 6f 20 6d 61 67 69 63 61 6c 6c 79 20 67 75 65 73 73 20 74 68 65 20 68 65 78 61 64 65 63 69 6d 61 6c 20 70 61 79 6c 6f 61 64 20 79 6f 75 20 73 70 65 61 6b 20 6f 66 66 2e 20 54 68 65 20 6d 65 73 73 61 67 65 20 69 73 20 74 68 69 73 3a 20 22 47 6f 20 74 6f 20 61 20 73 69 74 65 20 6c 69 6b 65 20 68 74 74 70 73 3a 2f 2f 77 77 77 2e 72 61 70 69 64 74 61 62 6c 65 73 2e 63 6f 6d 2f 63 6f
 
Or, say she can enjoy a trip to the city too, and just run away once you arrive
 
9:16 PM
@thecoshman I've tried that. She insists that we should go to the Philippines instead...
 
@JerryCoffin Well, she's wrong
But maybe try going there, with a stop over in EU :P
 
@thecoshman My wife is a bit unusual. From a strategic viewpoint, she's the worst money manager on earth--she buys the wrong things at the wrong times, buys stuff she doesn't need (or really even want). At the same time, from a tactical viewpoint, she's as good as it gets--once she's decided where to go, she'll manage to get the cheapest tickets of anybody on that flight. So, we'd stop in the EU if and only if doing so saved some money.
 
@JerryCoffin not even to compromise? Also, that sounds like most women people I know :|
 
Well, killed Vordt finally.
 
@thecoshman I'm quite the opposite. With clothes, for example, I buy new clothes when the old ones wear out. More often than not, I'd pay full price for what I got, because when I decided I needed something, went to the store, found the right size, and bought it. Not a lot of shopping around, waiting for sales, or anything else. At the same time, I only spent half as much on clothes, because I only bought clothes when I needed them.
My wife will buy something that's on sale and "cute" (or "pretty", etc.) even if nobody in the family needs it--in fact, fairly frequently buys crap that flat-out won't fit anybody in the family (including stuff that's too small for our youngest child, so there's no chance anybody in the family can ever wear it).
@wilx Who's Vordt?
 
9:35 PM
@JerryCoffin Vordt's dead, baby. Vordt's dead.
@JerryCoffin Dark Souls III's second boss.
@thecoshman: What number are you thinking about?
 
@wilx Ah, that explains my not knowing.
 
@JerryCoffin Does she by any chance by cards for occasions that might not happen?
@wilx facepalm
oooh you
Also, there is a correct number :O
 
@Columbo queuing after youtube.com/watch?v=CQHcNyw5csU
 
9:55 PM
@thecoshman I haven't noticed, but it wouldn't surprise me. I think I mentioned it here before, but a couple months ago I ran across a 2012 (or so) calendar--still sealed in its original wrapping.
 
@JerryCoffin hahaha
 
only 22 years more and you can use it :D
 
But how could you accept such crude imitations?
 
@milleniumbug Yeah, I'm sure that'll work out well.
@thecoshman I don't. I use the calendar on my computer. Have yet to throw one away because it was out of date.
 
10:39 PM
Hi
...
I never come here anymore...
:(
 
@VermillionAzure Close to never, anyway.
 
@JerryCoffin ???
Oh
...yeah
I guess everyone moved to the discord?
 
@VermillionAzure I guess. A few of us are still here, but only a few.
 
sigh
That's okay I guess
I suppose I've moved on
I've made it to official level with my tutorials however
 
10:43 PM
@VermillionAzure What does "official level" mean?
 
I still need tech support sometimes, here is the best place to be in apparently
 
@JerryCoffin I'm an official C++ TA who writes the labs
 
@VermillionAzure Ah, I see.
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah, I taught them move constructors as a part of encapsulation and now we're going to do polymorphism
 
@VermillionAzure why not join us?
 
10:56 PM
@thecoshman i guess i could
but then again nobody likes Cinch so there's no reason
 
I don't think that's true
 
@VermillionAzure Start with simply morphism, then (if you really must) move on to polymorphism.
In many fields of mathematics, morphism refers to a structure-preserving map from one mathematical structure to another. The notion of morphism recurs in much of contemporary mathematics. In set theory, morphisms are functions; in linear algebra, linear transformations; in group theory, group homomorphisms; in topology, continuous functions, and so on. In category theory, morphism is a broadly similar idea, but somewhat more abstract: the mathematical objects involved need not be sets, and the relationship between them may be something more general than a map, although has to behave similarly to...
 
@JerryCoffin ???
You can't be serious
@thecoshman How come I can't see anything on Discord?
 
@VermillionAzure The general rule is that I'm almost always a little serious, but almost never entirely serious.
 
Lol they don't even know discrete math at this point. How the heck are they supposed to understand stuff that can come from category theory of linear algebra?
 
11:09 PM
@VermillionAzure well have a troll trap, I'm not an owner, so I can't let you through sadly :(
 
@VermillionAzure Maybe it would be better to start with monomorphism, then move on to polymorphism?
 
@VermillionAzure Obviously monomorphism must be simpler than polymorphism.
 
@JerryCoffin We might as well go full category theory and begin talking about standard constructions and the category of templated types and how they form categories of categories
INFINITE categories of categories with infinite loops of categories!
 
@VermillionAzure Objection your honor, already answered, even before it was asked.
 
11:15 PM
@JerryCoffin But I've been talking with a few researchers and I'm beginning to formulate my own ideas on what I want to do regarding research
Actually... in your experience, how many structured editors have you seen? or fully integrated IDEs?
 
@JerryCoffin : Well, duh. Monomorphism doesn't need the type of the this pointer.
 
@VermillionAzure I've seen "structured editor" used to refer to a number of things--not sure what you mean by it. Nor by "fully integrated IDEs".
 
@JerryCoffin As in, the medium of interaction is not text, but instead interacting with an AST
 
AST = abstract syntax tree?? Why on earth would you want to do that?
 
@VermillionAzure Played with a couple of them at different times, but that's about it. Played was about it though--never tried to make any serious use or anything like that.
 
11:22 PM
@JerryCoffin I see
I've recently conceptualized a CAD program for programming
Actually, a group from CMU/Colorado are already working on a very similar concept
But I was thinking -- what if you could create a programming shell?
Or, a REPL that is so close to a shell that it is designed to be more of a programming shell over something like Racket's programming programming language
 
@VermillionAzure As I recall, at least one CASE tool could generate essentially an AST directly from Booch notation (or maybe from UML, but I think it predates that).
 
@JerryCoffin CASE?
 
computer aided software engineering
 
c/a s/w eng
 
@VermillionAzure Computer Aided Software Engineering. Whole class of tools that did UML (and Booch, etc.) diagram manipulation. Fair number could (for example) generate code from diagram and vice versa.
 
11:28 PM
@JerryCoffin Ah.
@sehe What does c do?
 
the work
 
+--=~-+
| - - |
|  o  |
+-----+ ¹
¹ Trumped
 
@sehe Don't insult him with this joke
 
Jokes are above his hairpiece. Can't insult him with that.
But I agree, it's mildly offensive to the ascii art community
 
11:32 PM
@VermillionAzure Damned little, it turned out. I believe CASE as a category is generally considered pretty much a failure. Primary use I ever saw of them was to take code, reverse engineer impressive looking diagrams, and put them into reports to show what very impressive work was being done, and how more budget would be a wonderful thing. Pretty sure nobody actually used any of them for actual engineering though.
 
never found any realistic use for UML
 
@JerryCoffin Right, and that's because it was a very isolated and rigid system that relied on the graphical user interface of UML
 
@JerryCoffin lol not even kidding, this is what we've used one for
 
Yup. I've been in 2 projects that either started from UML with CASE to generate code, and only 1 in which models were synched back with changes. (Read: lots and lots of manual labour to actually get it presentable and a bit representative)
@Puppy Lots of it in soft-skills communication. Actor, sequence and component diagrams speak volumes.
 
I wanted a command-based shell to perform general metaprogramming in order to generate programs, export them as data, import programs from data, and do all sorts of analysis on programs themselves that could be used for software engineering research and code analysis, and even documentation generation without having to go through the process of parsing, etc.
 
11:35 PM
However, no case for CASE
 
Hazelgrove is currently working on a type-safe structured editor for a basic language. But they're still missing programs over programs in their type system
 
@VermillionAzure Infected by the Lisp virus
 
@sehe No, I'm actually contrary to most of the Lisp community -- I don't like the complexity created by Racket and its infinite stage compilation process
 
Racket, who mentioned racket.
Syntactic macros is where it's at.
 
@VermillionAzure Partly--but I doubt changing to a different notation (for one obvious possibility) would fix that.
 
11:37 PM
@sehe Uhhhh Racket has the most advanced syntactic macros dude
 
Yes.
 
@JerryCoffin The point is that there is no notation because all I want to develop is a common language API instead of defining a text format and a corresponding semantics from the text
The idea is to begin treating programs as data so that mutation of it becomes easy, and tasks such as refactoring, documentation, extension of types, and redesigning of architecture can be done algorithmically, or at least in-part interactively
 
I'm merely noting a certain tendency. And I applaud it as a hugely beneficial approach to productive software development. Just never mistake it for a Silver Bullet worthy of Inner Platforming on
@VermillionAzure See, I called it.
 
@sehe Syntactic macros do not simplify the compilation process, however. They require a huge amount of effort on the implementer's part. And the staging is ridiculous to create with a clean-room implementation
The runtime and compile-time blurring of Racket/Scheme increases the complexity enormously.
 
@VermillionAzure That's been the basic idea of a whole lot of systems, going all the way back to the original Lisp. On one hand, that tends to suggest that simply doing something won't be enough (by itself) to qualify as particularly great research. At the same time, people keep working at it largely because it seems like a useful area for more research.
 
11:41 PM
@JerryCoffin I wish I had the expertise to take an empirical/theoretical HCI view and doing experiments to model how programmers interact with programs during development and the types of interactions they do with them. But I don't. But I am trying to take a network science class so that may be possible in the future
 
@VermillionAzure You're telling me. You're now so focused on replacing complicated generics in the compilation model with general purpose code generation, you're prone to forgetting the code generators are effectively compilation steps.
 
@sehe I've read this, yes.
 
That's why I mirror it back. I'm picking it up.
 
But why tack on macros to an inherently inefficient and hard-to-optimize base language when you could instead focus on compile-time computation as a whole and integrate macros as just another tool in this suite of tools and power
 
It's the same thing with different balance.
 
11:43 PM
It appears to me that we want to do metaprogramming anyways by mutating text to mutate programs themselves.
@sehe The balance is very important. Unfortunately I can't quantify that yet
 
Sometimes having the options makes it so that the end result can have more elegance.
I admit I'm a biased C++ guy. But remember what room you're in.
 
C++ metaclasses are very nice. But what if you could instead replace templates with a shell that could be used to select classes, create templates at compile-time, and instead write compile-time functions to generate code there? Then, instantiation and compilation become scripts of programs to perform computation at compile-time. Terra takes this approach with Lua apparently and it appears to work
 
The success of Terra might not be the negation of "hard, complex language features", but rather the addition of "simple, dynamically evaluated features"
constexpr is pretty much that, in different guise
So, yes, this realization pervades all meta-programming evolution, in whatever shape or form.
 
It's not simply about just the traditional metaprogramming stuff, however. It's also about integration
What tools can you use to perform dependency analysis on C++? Generate class diagrams?
 
C++ is a (very) bad example in that the meta-programming facilities becamse very top-heavy being accidentally Turing complete.
@VermillionAzure Who wants the class diagrams? Dependency analysis, yes! Class diagrams, muh. What is a class :)
I have a template and it is a million classes.
I have umpteen classes and they're the same concept.
 
11:48 PM
@sehe Your boss or your students want the class diagrams. Or, you want to do something similar to kcachegrind and map what functions are called by other ones. Or, perhaps you want to generate a dataflow analysis graph
 
I'd say dependency analysis is the key. And with some planning it can be done pretty much everywhere.
 
depending on your coding/design style you may not even have classes that depend on each other
 
Currently, you are forced to either create a parser or deal with compiler-specific APIs for interacting with some sort of IR to generate visualizations from. What if, instead, the language itself could be used to perform analysis on itself?
 
@VermillionAzure My boss cannot want the class diagrams (because I'll calculate the extra cost and he'll realize his mistake). Students don't "want the class diagrams". They want mental models so they can visualize/grasp software concepts. You make the diagrams for them, not from the code.
Sounds like the case of the lazy tutor wishing for silver bullets.
 
Sigh
I need to stop talking about it and just fucking do it
 
11:51 PM
That's a universal truth.
Think about it first. If you're at the end of your experience to think, start. Build one to throw away. And don't buy into tunnel vision.
 
@sehe You're right
 
As a motivational prod: "all great things came about from people with an itch to scratch" (someone, once)
 
Yeah. I'm still considering whether I want to go to Master's school or go straight for a PhD program after a couple of years of working
Right now I'm on the fence but I suspect that I'll get too impatient for academia to go back
But, then again, work without principle is simply ephemeral art
 
The reverse goes too (Acadamics without purpose are just academics without purpose).
 
@sehe Exactly. I hunger to do deep work that has impact -- essentially, I want both but perhaps I'm asking for the moon :(
 
11:57 PM
I get really tired of that pretty soon. And it's been my experience that precious few academics are actually equipped with the mental sharpness and thought discipline to make achieve breakthrough
 
first find some itch that you can scratch and build something to scratch it with
 
Alright I'll do it
...now the question is what to use oh boy
sighhhhhhhhh
Perhaps I should just start with C
 
build one to throw away
 
@VermillionAzure You know. Lots of things have impact, without solving prime factorization or Fermat's theorem. I'm really satisfied with building software that solves real world social issues.
 
@sehe But we lack the tools to actually measure impact. We often lack the methods to form the eyes and ears of knowing whether anything we do is actually better or worse, or at least, we don't see them employed to much at the smaller level...
 
11:59 PM
I don't. I can see the impact of tools lacking. Making the tools directly fills the gap.
 

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