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12:22 AM
sup @jaggedSpire
 
@rightfold can i ask u something
 
@TonyTheLion hey :)
How've you been?
 
user1804599
@RachelDockter No.
 
user1804599
12:41 AM
logShow $ unsafeEXPTIME powerset (1 : 2 : 3 : 4 : 5 : Nil)
 
user1804599
:D remove unsafeEXPTIME and it'll fail with a type error.
 
user1804599
Type classes are magic.
 
@jaggedSpire Not too bad, you?
 
1:06 AM
@TonyTheLion I'm doing all right myself. :)
 
1:21 AM
:D
 
It's good to hear from you. <3
 
She's usually stuck hearing from me ;)
 
1:37 AM
@Columbo Well it's better than "My personality" tbh
 
@jaggedSpire almost finished refactoring my code to use boost::small_vector, now it appears that NVCC won't take it.
FML
 
@Mikhail oh man
I'm so sorry. :(
 
Now its Friday at 8:00pm and I gotta refactor all 310 headers in my projects. Not to mention actually get them to work :-)
 
oh man
 
1:53 AM
Yeah, in my actual research work one of my RAID arrays failed and the HeLa culture got contaminated. Been a fun week.
 
@Mikhail refactor usually implies that they have to work
 
Not if you don't have any tests it don't
If she builds I ships
 
at least the program has to compile and run
 
Fuck society, I'll just use hundreds of millions of std::vector<int> s
wait no, that will lead to memory fragmentation, fuck
 
2:24 AM
I feel like I should go to bed now and see exactly how long I can sleep
I feel like I could swing a good 11 hours right now
 
Yeah, but if you go to bed later you might make it to 12
 
Hmmm
I also want to go somewhere in the morning tomorrow, though
 
morning is for dead people
 
Morning is for those who want to go to the botanical gardens for free here :P
 
Oh, take a nice camera with macro and a tripod!
 
2:29 AM
I own exactly none of those things
 
Well then take some mental photos
 
I do, however, have a phone from 2013
 
or just use your laptop's internal webcam, like normal people
 
...for taking pictures at the botanical gardens?
 
*abnormal
 
2:30 AM
meh, the phone should work fine if it's sunny, just gotta hold it steady
 
Is that what programmers do after switching to botany?
 
@Aaron3468 I've taken pictures there before, and it does work fairly well, though it doesn't always get the nuances of color right
There was also a rose that hit the saturation limits of the camera
 
use HDR
 
While it's got HDR, it's the bad kind of HDR that makes everything look flat
 
@jaggedSpire Yeah, they have poor colour adjustment. If you can, always shoot colourful things with Daylight white balance. It keeps the colour close to what you see
 
2:33 AM
I did, if I recall correctly
 
@Mysticial Seems like it. Btw, how did botany get to be a meme here?
 
I checked all the color options and used the one that seemed the closest match
 
@Aaron3468 Domagoj. But he's no longer here.
Nov 23 '16 at 22:48, by Mysticial
Apr 4 '13 at 12:32, by Domagoj Pandža
Have you considered a career in botany? — Domagoj Pandža 7 secs ago
 
So, whats the best way to use LLVM's SmallVector in MSVC?
 
using namespace botany;
9
 
2:45 AM
That is poor style
 
Don't like raw intrinsics?
 
not enough fiber
 
@Mikhail closed as too broad
 
:( I missed Lounge<Botany++>
 
@Mysticial Also my parts list for a storage node: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/…
We don't have enough money to fill it up, but I think its going to look cool on my desk. Also no money for rails.
 
2:57 AM
@jaggedSpire the tiny hats! XD /cc @Morwenn
 
oh my goodness
 
ikr!
 
@Mikhail You have way too much money.
 
@Mysticial No money to fill it up though. Notice the free CPUs :-)
Then I'm going to answer the question about RAID controllers those assholes closed on SeverFault
 
hello!!
how to check if i can use some software in a proprietary company...
software is free to use
 
3:10 AM
Look at the license, if it gives you enough freedoms to use in a commercial setting, then talk to your boss to have it approved.
 
but is it ok to use?
 
Depends on how you use it. In short you can use almost anything in some way or another. Do you know the license?
 
yesss oracle license
 
wtf is that
 
wtf?
 
3:12 AM
 
teehee
 
That sounds like, "free to use if you're willing be sued".
 
haha is it?!!
 
He might not be in a real country, though
 
license are so complicated
 
3:15 AM
Wait a minute, do you mean the Apache license?
 
has anyone used any oracle library/some src in your application?
 
I've used some Apache parsers for an in-house deployment as a contractor, no fucks were given
 
I've use an Apache-licensed library in one of my apps. IIRC, you just need to include the license with the app and state clearly that you're using it.
Granted, I'm not big enough for people to give any fucks. So I have no idea if I'm doing it right.
It's usually the GPL stuff that you need to stay the fuck away from. (unless you're also GPL).
 
And even then you can get away with GPL by just deploying DLLs, or being "willing" to show the GPL part of your source if asked. That is how you deploy Qt without paying.
 
I'm going to have distro problems on Linux once I take up the libnuma dependency. It's LGPL, but I can't statically link it due to the network dependency. And the moment I go dynamic-linking, everything will go to shit.
 
3:21 AM
@KartikV Which library are you using? I've used Java libraries in the past, but the license will vary depending on the library. We can summarize the rules if we know the library you want to use.
 
I also can't provide a way to re-link it since it won't get pass the integrity checks.
 
god fucking damnit, NVCC won't let me silence any warnings including -D_SCL_SECURE_NO_WARNINGS on guys SmallVector implementation
I'm a going to rage quit.
 
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
3:38 AM
Are you allowed to use a different compiler backend for the IDE?
 
4:23 AM
/cc @Nooble
 
4:39 AM
@jaggedSpire This is a lie! (It was actually 8 koalas, plus a pair of platypus slippers).
 
heh
 
4:51 AM
Never mind . Don't wanna get banned for graphic content :P
 
@jaggedSpire Stop posting graphic content :<
 
@Aaron3468 but where will I put my grafix if not here?
 
In my inbox pls. And you are free to post them here.
@ProblemSlover As far as I've seen, it isn't a problem until there are sexual tissues or gore.
 
5:18 AM
@AldwinCheung I have a shed of a different kind to paint ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) in its infinite wisdom anet is nerfing some rewards soon so I have to pick one of these soon, what do you think?
 
 
3 hours later…
7:58 AM
@Mikhail shipping with A.I. defragmentation software that does periodic clean up? XD
 
8:31 AM
Technology
Through a process known as Eval-Rinse-Reload-And-Repeat, FuckItJS repeatedly compiles your code, detecting errors and slicing those lines out of the script. To survive such a violent process, FuckItJS reloads itself after each iteration, allowing the onerror handler to catch every single error in your terribly written code.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:41 AM
Man I sometimes wish I could talk like Gordon Ramsay.
Esp when doing code reviews.
 
Ven
why?!
 
Because it makes a strong impact.
 
Ven
you think insulting people is a good idea to do code reviews???
getting insulted during code reviews is the one reason I'm considered switching from programming, so fuck you sincerely
 
@Ven Sure. Some people do not respond to less obvious communication. :)
@Ven Please do so.
 
@Ven usually it's not. there's just this one guy..
 
Ven
9:55 AM
you are really an idiot if you're considering verbal abuse as a solution for this problem.
8
 
@Ven surely you have stronger words than that to express yourself
 
Ven
@LucDanton no
 
wow je te tends une perche et tu la rejettes tu te prends pour qui espèce de fringant jeune homme bien élevé
 
I would like to see the insulting reviews that you get.
 
I presume now is not a good time to make a botany joke right?
 
10:02 AM
It's always a good time for botany jokes.
 
botany mention count++
 
Hey
What do you guys do when you're having a hard day?
 
not sure how to make this question more generic
 
10:18 AM
...never mind
 
@VermillionAzure take my computer, sit at a Starbucks, order 2 big coffee and work on my personal projects
 
10:42 AM
@Borgleader That's so ridiculously cute xD
@VermillionAzure I cry hth
 
I take it your SALT_WORK_FACTOR is rising
 
Ven
I'm considering just outright closing the issue.
I just did. Fuck wasting people's time.
 
a small point of note
> Calling something a "standard" doesn't make it a standard.
that's actually quite close to what a standard is
 
11:39 AM
wait are JS people actually relying on semicolon insertion and they use 2 spaces to indent? Barbarians
 
I think you mean...
 
12:28 PM
OH MY STERADIAN
 
12:42 PM
@LucDanton The heavy looks terrible. The other two are OK I guess.
 
@AldwinCheung lol it’s the only set I was considering, I find light esp. bad
medium is alright but I already have many non-ardent pieces
 
Well then I'm glad you asked for my input
 
I said 'considering', not set in stone
if I were to get the light pieces it would be for my Norn necro which has a larger build than the characters in the screenshots, it doesn't as good
 
Set in blockchain, get on with the times, grandpa.
Yeah that's the problem with those screenshots, it varies massively between races.
 
look at that stupid dress :( nevermind the pink bits you can’t dye, if the preview window is to be believed
@AldwinCheung well
 
12:49 PM
I wish I could never dye
Okay all things considered it does look pretty bad
 
Keyboard not found. Press any key to continue.
 
I prefer the medium.
 
I would probably have picked it if I had the will to play engi :<
cos I like my ranger and teef looks already
 
rescue ranger?
 
1:08 PM
"Dear google boss" :-D
 
marketing trick
seriously a letter of a 7 yo making into news spell something fishy
 
Native continuations in C... how do you do it?
 
technology has made manipulation easy
 
@VermillionAzure Why would you want to?
Also, what is a native continuation?
 
1:14 PM
@fredoverflow For example, Scheme's continuations are usually implemented as a part of the virtual machine/model of a Scheme interpretation.
A native continuation would work at the machine code level abstraction freely with other native code and "procedures"
 
Well, continuations are not a part of the C standard... do you intend to add them to clang or something?
 
@fredoverflow No, I'm just interested how you might do it arbitrarily on, say, x86_64 or MIPS
So, I'd guess you'd have to make sure that the caller and callee of the continuation match up such that the arguments can still be viable...
 
Well, instead of pushing program counter onto the stack, you push the address of the function you want to continue with or something? I dunno...
 
Ven
do you want delimited continuations?
 
@fredoverflow That's what I was thinking, but you also need a way of storing the state of the function
 
1:16 PM
You do? Why, if you never return to the caller?
 
@Ven I dunno, honestly. I don't know much about; hence my asking.
 
Ven
Maybe learn more about continuations first then.
 
You shouldn't be interested in C to begin with ;)
 
@Ven Well, I do understand Scheme's continuations...
 
So you understand continuations in the grand... Scheme of things?
 
Ven
1:19 PM
sigh
 
I wish I was proficient in Lisp.
 
@fredoverflow ugh (yasss)
 
Ven
@fredoverflow learn Racket! :D
 
So... are Scheme's continuations considered delimited?
I want to say "yes" because they return the value evaluated before it returns to the (call/cc) outer scope.
Oh
@Ven Nah, I think undelimited should be enough
If I understand correctly, if you can simply just change the return address of the current stack frame, you get delimited continuations for free anyways.
But at the same time, undelimited continuations might not be safe... Hm...
 
Ell
1:35 PM
@VermillionAzure I want to say no
 
@Ell But at the same time, when you call/cc, it's guaranteed to return inside of its scope.
Or, rather, execution will resume, at a minimum, after evaluating (call/cc) at the point of (call/cc), right...?
 
@rightfold Is tail recursion considered a primitive form of continuations? :)
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow No, it's a special case of tail calls.
 
user1804599
But you can turn any program into a CPS program.
 
What exactly is the point of CPS?
 
1:44 PM
@fredoverflow I think Dr. Shivers had a good paper on that
 
user1804599
You can delay the continuation until whenever you like.
 
user1804599
Or call it multiple times.
 
@VermillionAzure of RSA fame?
 
user1804599
Or on a different thread.
 
CPS is often used to reason about control flow and is use to perform optimizations on functional languages.
@fredoverflow His name is Olin Shivers. PhD dissertation was on control flow for functional languages.
 
user1804599
1:45 PM
You can do concurrency with just one thread.
 
@VermillionAzure Oh, I confungled Rivest and Shamir into Shivers :)
 
user1804599
PureScript has call/cc ;)
 
user1804599
You should learn it.
 
@fredoverflow He had a paper I read about continuations to describe multi-processing models. I think continuations are an elegant way to express multi-threading models after reading that.
@rightfold If I'm not mistaken, this is valid, right?
(define cont (call/cc (lambda (return) return)))
 
user1804599
I don't know, I don't use bad languages like Scheme.
 
1:47 PM
@rightfold ...I'm sorry what
RIGHTFOLD WHAT
@rightfold (but why is it bad)
 
user1804599
? Scheme is fucking awful. It doesn't even have types.
 
user1804599
How can you ever write something correct and comprehensible in that shit.
 
@rightfold It has types. It's just not statically-typed
 
user1804599
equational reasoning u fuckin wot m8
 
Plus, if you look at Clojure, there is probably a way to do type annotations to speed things up and give static typing to a dynamic language.
 
user1804599
1:50 PM
I don't care about the runtime performance benefits of types.
 
@rightfold So what do you care about?
The type safety, right?
 
user1804599
That I can actually understand the code I write and others wrote, and so the checker can tell me what to do (typed holes, etc).
 
so it folds right
 
@rightfold So you're saying that Scheme is not understandable?
 
user1804599
Absolutely, can't understand shit of that code.
 
1:52 PM
@rightfold Why?
 
user1804599
Oh look here's a function that takes some argument
 
user1804599
what's its actual domain?
 
user1804599
does it have side-effects?
 
user1804599
is it a partial function?
 
user1804599
does it run in polynomial time?
 
1:52 PM
You've hit it right on the money, IMO.
 
user1804599
none of that useful information is in there, but it can be in well-used types.
 
@rightfold How would you encode running time into a type?
 
@VermillionAzure probably possible with template meta programming ;)
 
@fredoverflow Yeah, but that would also require heavy templating of everything...
Just to probably encode the information
 
user1804599
Oh I forgot which function I should use!
 
user1804599
1:54 PM
showErrorCode :: Either Int String -> Either String String
showErrorCode = ?f (Int.toStringAs decimal)

Hole 'f' has the inferred type

    (Int -> String) -> Either Int String -> Either String String

  You could substitute the hole with one of these values:

    Data.Bifunctor.lmap          :: forall f a b c. (Bifunctor f) => (a -> b) -> f a c -> f b c
    Data.Profunctor.Choice.left  :: forall a b c p. (Choice p) => p a b -> p (Either a c) (Either b c)
 
user1804599
Oh yes! It was lmap thank you!
 
@rightfold English? Don't know Haskell very well
 
user1804599
If your language can't do this, your language sucks.
 
Is that idris?
 
user1804599
@VermillionAzure It infers the type of ?f and gives me a list of known values which have that type.
 
1:56 PM
@rightfold Idris or Haskell?
 
Haskris
 
@fredoverflow Maybe it's related to Arrakis?
 
user1804599
@VermillionAzure There are various ways to do this, see for example resource-aware ML. You can do it in a more primitive way by making constraints for predefined running times and add those to your functions, then require users of that function to explicitly discharge those constraints.
 
user1804599
@VermillionAzure PureScript
 
@rightfold When you say "discharge," what do you mean?
 
user1804599
1:58 PM
You remove the constraint at the callsite explicitly.
 
user1804599
For example acknowledgeEXPTIME powerset xs.
 
user1804599
Now it's difficult to accidentally call an exponential-time algorithm when you didn't mean to.
 
user1804599
And the reader is reminded that this algorithm must not be passed large inputs, though something the compiler can understand as well (types).
 
@rightfold Sounds absolutely brilliant!
Except... how can I add this to C?
 
user1804599
struct EXPTIME { int a; /* lol no empty structs in C */ } acknowledgeEXPTIME;
set powerset(struct EXPTIME, set) { ... }
// powerset(xs) // oops
powerset(acknowledgeEXPTIME, xs)
 
user1804599
2:01 PM
something like that should work
 
user1804599
but lol passing this around explicitly all the time :c:
 
@rightfold Or, rather, not doing it explicitly in C, but simply creating a meta language that can be used with C code.
For example, another preprocessor program that can do this.
 
user1804599
Inferring running times is way more awesome though.
 
user1804599
I'm not sure how much research is going on about this.
 
@rightfold I think I'm sold on the dependent/refinement types now. Thank you
They're amazing!
 
user1804599
2:03 PM
Refinement types are nice.
 
@rightfold What are dependent types, again? I got to see Liquid Haskell so I have a better handle on refinement types but not dependent.
 
user1804599
Say you have a Java method:
 
user1804599
public <T> T id(T x) { return x; }
 
user1804599
This is a function whose type depends on a type.
 
user1804599
That's a type-dependent type.
 
2:05 PM
Right, but that's not a value dependent type
 
user1804599
Just "dependent types" is short for "value-dependent types", and can mean something like this:
 
user1804599
public <int x> void f(T<x> a) { ... }
 
user1804599
The difference with C++ templates is that this x can be a runtime value.
 
@rightfold Mmm, I see...
 
user1804599
So not just 1, 2 or 42 but also parseInt(readline()).
 
2:07 PM
So... why are dependent types considered computationally hard?
Undecidable because it inherits that property from a program since Turing undecidability?
 
user1804599
Extensional equality is impossible to determine for arbitrary programs due to the halting problem.
 
user1804599
So you have to get rid of Turing-completeness (i.e. "arbitrary programs").
 
user1804599
But you need to determine extensional equality to determine whether two value-dependent types are equivalent.
 
@rightfold ???
@rightfold So, like an algorithm to determine whether two value spaces are the same...
e.g. int(x == 1) and int(x > -1 && x < 1)
 
user1804599
2:22 PM
Yeah in a sense.
 
user1804599
Depends on how far you want to go.
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
Where the domains of f and g are the same and x is in this domain.
 
@rightfold Man that's gotta be hard.
Fortunately, most implementations of numbers are finite, but eh.............
 
user1804599
You don't attempt it for all inputs.
 
user1804599
2:28 PM
You could if the domain is small.
 
user1804599
But generally you look at the structure of the functions instead.
 
@rightfold I think it's be better if you could just do it based on predicates, I'm guessing?
So like, if you run if (x == 2), the domain is split into half according to which branch it goes down.
@rightfold Is there a way to get dependent types in C++?
 
2:51 PM
I am reading the book of this popular novelist, his book is great, but I find his book very depressing ...
 
user1804599
@VermillionAzure No.
 
@rightfold Have we ever discussed simulating "type matching" in Java with exceptions?
abstract class List extends RuntimeException {}

final class Nil extends List {}

final class Cons extends List
{
    public final Object car;
    public final List cdr;
}

public static int length(List list)
{
    try
    {
        throw list;
    }
    catch (Nil nil)
    {
        return 0;
    }
    catch (Cons cons)
    {
        return 1 + length(cons.cdr);
    }
}
@Telkitty Herbert Schildt?
 
The Devotion of Suspect X (容疑者Xの献身, Yōgisha Ekkusu no Kenshin) is a 2005 novel by Keigo Higashino, the third in his Detective Galileo series and is his most acclaimed work thus far. The novel won him numerous awards, including the 134th Naoki Prize, which is a highly regarded award in Japan. The novel also won the 6th Honkaku Mystery Award, which is one of the most prestigious awards in the mystery novels category in Japan. 2006 Honkaku Mystery Best 10 and Kono Mystery ga Sugoi! 2006, annual mystery fiction guide books published in Japan, ranked the novel as the number one. The English translation...
 
nwp
@VermillionAzure I think the factory pattern is related, but I don't really know
 
3:03 PM
@fredoverflow nice title
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow Probably, it's a bad idea.
 
user1804599
You should have a fold function instead.
 
user1804599
public abstract class List<T> {
    public <R> R fold(R ifNil, Fn2<T, List<T>, R> ifCons);
}
 
user1804599
This way you can't forget cases.
 
user1804599
But lol writing abstractions in Java.
 
3:09 PM
I have been rejected several times by Amazon in either 1st or second round please help. I needed lots of hits to find corner cases.
 
3:20 PM
@PranitKothari Uh what
Wait did you have a question or want a review???
 
@VermillionAzure No I have a question. How to prepare for corner cases. I mean I can identify DS and Algo, but programming with all cases sucks.
 
@PranitKothari What do you mean by "corner cases?"
 
@VermillionAzure May be my question is not very releavent. Just trying to thinik loud
 
As in corner cases for algorithms or corner cases for what types of questions they'll ask you?
 
user1804599
@PranitKothari Attempt somewhere else, get experience, and then try again later.
 
user1804599
3:23 PM
Also Amazon is evil.
 
@rightfold Yes. But somehow I want to get into top 4
@VermillionAzure Given infinite memory find a number in sorted array
 
Ell
Binary search?
 
@PranitKothari Just use binary search?
If you use an NP algorithm you might be able to do O(1)
But that's expensive.
 
Yes did that. Accepted the algo, asked me to code, somehow missed the step. And got rejected.
 
xD
I piss myself everytime believers use "logic" to conclude god
 
3:32 PM
@PranitKothari What do you mean by "missed the step?"
 
@VermillionAzure Let me recollect question correctly. I am missing some constraint.
 
4:11 PM
@wilx good stuff :D
@fredoverflow ha ha ha, brilliant quote XD
 
@Columbo Yeah, maybe we were all born out of cosmic a plate of ravioli.
 
Judging by the face, some probably more than others.
 
4:41 PM
Hope someone of windows experts will be able to reproduce it :P
 
Ell
5:05 PM
@Columbo there isn't anything wrong with this logic IMO
It doesn't say that god is an omnipotent being etc.
It just gives a name to the "first cause"
 
@Ell That must be because you're blind, because it's dumb as shit.
the original premise sounds like it should be true but absolutely no logic or evidence is offered up to show that it's actually true
the second item is absolutely not true since we know that quantum physics is inherently random and not deterministic
the fourth item is basically just "Waaah, time can't be infinite, right? My head hurts."
conclusion: "Since time is not infinite, therefore by gosh, a magical dude in the sky must be watching over me"
even if time were not infinite, there's absolutely nothing connecting that to any extant form of theism or any proposed deity of any kind.
 
Ell
@Puppy right it's a premise
 
@Ell No, it's a completely random assumption.
 
Ell
Their logic says the conclusion follows given the premise
 
"If insert arbitrary assumptions here, then God" is not an argument at all.
 
Ell
5:14 PM
lol
 
it's only an argument for God if you can show that those things actually hold in the real world
not to mention that as I've detailed above, even if you assume that time is not infinite, there's a massive gap between time not being infinite and God which the proposed argument doesn't bridge even in the slightest
 
5:25 PM
@Puppy Quantum physics may be, but we don't know whether quantum physics is a correct model. We've been wrong many times, and we probably will be wrong a couple more.
 
I wouldn't say that's true
the classical laws aren't wrong, they just don't apply as widely as we thought
 
@Puppy In fact, it is probably false. Causality and other logical relations that we think are "true" are probably just empirically derived from our mesocosm. Quantum logic at least disagrees with e.g. the distributive law we know from propositional logic.
 
but quantum information has some pretty serious experimental evidence backing it up
 
@Puppy I don't know, if one of the classical laws is the physical universe being causally closed, it may be wrong
 
don't think so
 
5:32 PM
What, that it's wrong, or that there is such a law
 
that there is such a law
 
Do you mean e.g. Newtonian mechanics?
 
yeah
 
Yeah, it isn't wrong if the domain is properly defined
 
ino
 
5:34 PM
ino?
I know?
I guess as a puppy, each keystroke less saves you a cute little second
 
yeahano
 
gladthrthat
@Puppy Such as?
Not saying it's wrong, I'd just like to read a paper if you have a link
 
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