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1:14 AM
@JerryCoffin @Morwenn Shitty AVs are shit:
#include <Windows.h>

int wmain(int argc, wchar_t* argv[]){
    STARTUPINFOW si;
    PROCESS_INFORMATION pi;

    ZeroMemory(&si, sizeof(si));
    si.cb = sizeof(si);
    ZeroMemory(&pi, sizeof(pi));

    CreateProcessW(
        L"test1",
        L"test2",
        nullptr,
        nullptr,
        false,
        0,
        nullptr,
        nullptr,
        &si,
        &pi
    );
}
Anything that runs on a turing machine is a virus.
 
2:10 AM
@Mysticial Indeed so!
 
@Mysticial only by 2 of these guys. Also try getting rid of ZeroMemory function with some other form of zeroing...
@VermillionAzure Teaching OOP should be criminal. Unless your job is to simulate something, consider a straightforward approach first.
 
2:27 AM
@Mikhail No difference: virustotal.com/#/file-analysis/…
int wmain(int argc, wchar_t* argv[]){}
^^ ahahahaha
 
		STARTUPINFOW si = { 0 };
		PROCESS_INFORMATION pi;

		si.cb = sizeof(si);

		CreateProcessW(
			L"test1",
			L"test2",
			nullptr,
			nullptr,
			false,
			0,
			nullptr,
			nullptr,
			&si,
			&pi
		);
<- this passed
 
Don't forget /MT.
If you use /MD they come very close to passing if not passing.
 
well I fogot to init pi
don't remember if CreateProcessW will fill it out...
@Mysticial Yo, used it an it passed on MSVC 2015
 
wut
I'm also on MSVC2015. (update 3)
 
well you can build what I pasted
/GS /GL /W3 /Gy /Zc:wchar_t /Zi /Gm- /O2 /Fd"x64\Release\vc140.pdb" /Zc:inline /fp:precise /D "NDEBUG" /D "_CONSOLE" /D "_UNICODE" /D "UNICODE" /errorReport:prompt /WX- /Zc:forScope /Gd /Oi /MT /Fa"x64\Release\" /EHsc /nologo /Fo"x64\Release\" /Fp"x64\Release\ScratchPad.pch"
 
2:40 AM
/GS /GL /analyze- /W4 /Gy /Zc:wchar_t /I"F:\y-cruncher\trunk\VSS - Launcher\\..\Source" /Zi /Gm- /O2 /Fd"Release\vc140.pdb" /Zc:inline /D "WIN32" /D "YMP_BUILD_RELEASE" /D "NDEBUG" /D "_CONSOLE" /D "_UNICODE" /D "UNICODE" /errorReport:prompt /WX- /Zc:forScope /Gd /Oy- /Oi /MT /Fa"Release\" /EHsc /nologo /Fo"Release\" /FAs /Fp"Release\Launcher.pch"
It's not entirely clean since I stripped it down from a copy of the launcher project.
 
@Mikhail WEll I mean
Since Java is still very big and OOP is still present, I guess they want to teach it
and it's not necessarily bad as a starting point for an abstraction model over having no model
 
@VermillionAzure The problem is that kids make worlds instead of programs
 
What does that mean?
Also, these kids are like 19-20
 
I routinely refer to co-workers older than me as kids
 
Strange
 
2:42 AM
I think I'm better than everybody else
 
isn't that bad for teamwork?
 
well, continuing on
How should it be taught?
And I'm not even sure what people want from the class
 
Issue is that OOP is applied to problems that don't require OOP
Then you get Java cruft, where some POS system is 2 million lines
 
@Mikhail Yes, but I'll also try to teach when OOP doesn't work
OOP has strong and weak points
 
2:45 AM
applications
Problem here is that teaching kids that everything can be abstract is fucking easy, how to avoid creating a universe for simple tasks is harder to explain
 
3:02 AM
@Mikhail who doesn't, really?
 
3:22 AM
@Mikhail ???
Unfortunately there's no set curriculum for teaching software complexity measures to beginners
And it's not quantitative
I haven't heard of such a thing anywhere yet
 
or rather its much easier to show kids how to make their code more complicated with "Object Oriented Programming"
The only real solution is to shoot anyone teaching OOP
 
@Mikhail But says who?
The mandate is to teach OOP. The question is how, not that we shouldn't
 
CMU removed it from introductory classes, for example
 
@Mikhail is there a published commentary on why?
 
cursory Google search
>>because it is both anti-modular and anti-parallel by its very nature, and hence unsuitable for a modern CS curriculum.'
 
3:36 AM
@Mikhail That's not good enough -- I need qualitative or quantitative evidence that it is bad
but people don't really do stuff like this yet since I think it's too new
 
 
2 hours later…
5:39 AM
sup guise
 
6:09 AM
@VermillionAzure Its trivial to find academic papers with dozens of citations describing the pitfalls of OOP
In computer programming, object orgy is a term, common in the Perl programming community, describing a common failure (or anti-pattern) in object-oriented design or object-oriented programming. In an object orgy, objects are insufficiently encapsulated via information hiding, allowing unrestricted access to their internals, usually leading to increased maintenance needs and problems, and even unmaintainable complexity. == Consequences == The results of an object orgy are mainly a loss of the benefits of encapsulation, including: Unrestricted access makes it hard for a reader to reason about the...
 
@thecoshman [The Kotlin Programming Language with Dmitry Jemerov ](changelog.com/podcast/265)
 
user406009
@Mikhail There are pitfalls of every approach.
 
user406009
The basic tenant of OOP (of having data and code together in a single conceptual object) is legit.
 
If you put it so loosely, you can implement OOP by prefixing all your functions and variables with a few characters.
 
@Mikhail There is more to OOP than just that. The definition of OOP requires inheritance and polymorphism too, IIRC.
 
6:21 AM
Yep, that's why I felt it was hard thing to argue against, certainly nobody is going to argue against code encapsulation. Hell, different .cpp files are a kind of having code and data together.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:29 AM
Yay! Flaming Danger Zone is back online. Woohoo /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
5
Sigh. If people wouldn't respond here I wouldn't have to manually move answers as well.
@Lalaland OOP has no tenants. Only prisoners
@Mikhail Only if you have a single instance of each type
 
Yep, that's why I felt it was hard thing to argue against, certainly nobody is going to argue against code encapsulation. Hell, different .cpp files are a kind of having code and data together.
 
> Alan Kay has argued that message passing is more important than objects in OOP, and that objects themselves are often over-emphasized. The live distributed objects programming model builds upon this observation; it uses the concept of a distributed data flow to characterize the behavior of a complex distributed system in terms of message patterns, using high-level, functional-style specifications.[7]
 
sounds like the "Actors" pattern
 
Yup.
Everyone claims the same things for his preferred ideology.
 
I mean, OOP makes sense if you need to simulate objects :-)
 
7:40 AM
Thing is, OOP leads to class complicated hierarchies and they rarely model things in the most useful way. I think OOP appeals to humans because it enables antropomorphic thinking
@Mikhail Everything makes sense. It making sense is a poor argument. What matters is what works best.
 
anthropomorphic
 
Sorry
 
Its popular because it will consume resources, guarantee job security, and is easy to teach - most importantly you have a false sense of molecularity and tons of code.
So, whats a good way to profile mobile app power consumption... I want to use all the GLSL filters but, teh battery life....
 
@Mikhail That hits some nails, yes. And, one might argue, that's not a very big deal
 
@Mysticial That's impressive in its own right
 
7:57 AM
@Mysticial Well. It makes some sense for such an /otherwise un-useful/ snippet to match known virus signature, right. It's annoying, but not necessarily "incorrect".
 
@fredoverflow faildown :P
But thanks for the link :D
 
Lynx for the tank
 
well... you woke up in a fun mood I see
 
8:19 AM
Hey. I woke up. Progresss.
 
Ven
8:43 AM
]Nice!
 
9:02 AM
std::string_view nicely highlights how everything is plagued with C nul-terminated strings everywhere :/
 
9:35 AM
@Morwenn Strings will always keep being represented as contiguous regions of bytes in memory. NUL-termination is only a minor aspect of it. It's the allocation vs. ownership story that defines the mess.
Obviously std::string's value semantics remove all those issues, but there's a reason why (char*, size_t) is still being used: efficiency. C++ will never forget about that.
 
being able to avoid a extra allocation and copy on each interface boundary can matter a lot, remember chrome's 25k allocations per keystroke
 
@sehe It's not that minor: if you take a string_view but need to call an API function that expects a NUL-terminated string (e.g. filesystem functions), you need to reallocate a whole new string to have NUL-termination
@ratchetfreak 25k allocations per keystroke? o_o
 
@Morwenn How does that reflect anything about string_view? That's like saying double nicely highlights how everything is plagued with C array-to-pointer decay to me
 
9:54 AM
@sehe People are trying to change const std::string&/const char* overloads into std::string_view ones into the standard library, highlighting the NUL-termination problems that this move causes
 
@Morwenn ah. That's a whole lot more specific, and indeed has almost nothing to do with string_view :)
Completely agreed, NUL-terminated strings are old pain
 
 
1 hour later…
11:25 AM
NULL or nil ... there is no NUL
 
hi telkitty
 
hey ben
 
world renowned user "Question Ben"
 
@sehe not today.
it's 'need-a-job' Ben.
oh, say something.
 
11:44 AM
boo
 
such quality.
morwenn has better taste in music.
but this is clearly better.
 
12:11 PM
could the mods delete my last several messages, including this one?
 
12:23 PM
please
 
Ven
-1
Q: Why do all registers saves? instead of choosen ones

Kevin PunktWhy is this saving all the products ? If i have names like milk, meat, mars, etc. and choose to save names containing 'm' why does this save all the products? void saveProduct(struct varor reg[], int nrOfGoods){ getLook(reg, nrOfGoods); FILE * fp; char nameFile[WORDLENGTH...

whew
@sehe mind cleaning up @benardier's taste in music?
 
@Ven I was being sarcastic, but yeah, I guess it does reflect badly on my taste in music.
 
12:40 PM
@Ven not at all
 
Ven
@sehe he asked for it!
 
I know
 
I'm not offended, and this room already has enough irrelevant stuff.
 
is there a 'please spam me' website where I can submit spammers email addresses to other spammers?
 
By the time you finished typing your message another spam account got terminated due to reports and another was created by spammer.
However if it makes you feel better then the best way to get address spamed is to post said email address to pastebin.com and set paste to public and never expiring.
Remeber to tag it accordingly so that it can be found through search engine like using mailto or another keyword that can be searched for.
 
12:57 PM
thanks for the useful tips
 
1:13 PM
Ugh, I can't use the same photo on my ID card and my passport because it's a bit more than 6 months old -____-
 
do you have to tell them it's that old?
 
nwp
Bend a corner so the picture was updated.
 
3
Q: boost rational_cast with rounding?

ronagHow can I do a rational_cast<int64_t> with rounding? Currently I'm doing a hack like this: header->pts = std::llround(boost::rational_cast<long double>(pts / time_base)); But I'd like to be able to do it "properly" without involving floating point.

The amount of upvotes on that surprises me. Is my answer not common sense?
 
@Morwenn if digital, just use a ID app and take a picture using your phone ...
 
For security, update your face once every 6 months.
Remember to renew your fingerprints whenever you are in a new relationship or change employers.
 
1:27 PM
just grow new fingers, dammit
 
@sehe Why 6 months though? The passport will be valid for 10 years ^^'
 
to make sure the picture will never be older than 11 years
 
since the same picture is already on my ID card, I can't even lie about the date ^^'
 
nwp
2:07 PM
So you want to move from "OOP for the sake of OOP" to "design pattern for the sake of design pattern"? — Mat 8 mins ago
That response though.
 
There was no need for the unique_ptr, but I make it a matter of principle to remove unnecessary memory leaks from the code. — sehe 10 secs ago
Which is why I use my balls to unlock my phone.
People told me so many times to grow a pair, I'm now very well-versed in scrotal regeneration.
 
I grew a pair :D
8
 
lol. zing.
 
. .
3
 
Funny. Since when did we get US visitors this time of day.
@Morwenn Mine look better, though asymmetrical
 
nwp
2:21 PM
Are US visitors more boob-o-phobic than non-US visitors?
 
Not sure
Don't forget to cover the nipples of women picture with crops of men nipples to make them safe
12
 
@nwp Yeah, and Abyx
> Every positive integer can be expressed as the sum of at most three palindromic positive integers in any base b≥5.
 
@nwp I can only speak for myself, but far from being phobic, I rather like boobs.
 
@sehe Now that's a fun conjecture
 
@sehe Never. Couldn't possibly happen.
 
2:32 PM
The name of this chatroom hasn't changed in ages
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Same name for *way too long [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++17] [c++-faq]*
 
nwp
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: We are very progressive. You can tell by the 2a. [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++17] [c++-faq] [c++-2a]
 
3:20 PM
> Accusé d'agression sexuelle, George Bush senior invoque une «tentative d'humour»
 
wow
 
It also helps with negotiation. "Look, if it were up to me, *I'd* accept your offer, but my swarm of autonomous killer cells literally can't be reasoned with. It's out of my hands!"
2
 
A bit hard to guess what might constitute a "dirty joke". OTOH, the simple logistics of touching a woman inappropriately from a wheelchair, with your wife next to you and (apparently) not noticing seems...somewhat far-fetched, to put it mildly. Regardless of one's personal opinion of Bush himself, it seems to me that this one should (currently) be treated as what it actually is: an unsupported accusation.
3
 
3:47 PM
@Feeds 5% quarterly sales growth? That's strong enough to stand on its own (in fact, it'd be off alone, with no distractions).
 
Well, well. As they say, there's a first time for everything.
And my goodness, it takes a special kind of petty to get banned for something after you already binned it yourself.
 
Ven
@sehe I was offended, so I flagged it.
 
I believe you.
 
Ven
I literally did it, so you can believe me.
 
I literally believed you before.
 
Ven
3:51 PM
So now I know that you know that I know that you know!
 
I'm pleasantly noting @AndyProwl is back in the lounge more often.
 
Ven
his VPN is back on track
 
:)
 
Ven
so, @sehe, any interesting boost stuff you answered recently?
 
Lots. I'll give it a scan after I cooked dinner (and likely put the kids down to bed)
 
Ven
4:02 PM
"good luck have fun" then :)
 
4:23 PM
This rightfully deleted question still highlights an important issue: stackoverflow.com/questions/46921615/…
There is no good answer to this question on SO.
Or rather, in the places where it's been asked, the only answers in the top 3 (or even top 7 I think) on any of them are not very good answers.
 
@Omnifarious I tried adding one last time and it got deleted by a Mod
 
The canonical right answer is here: en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/regex/regex_token_iterator
Well, that's perhaps too strong. Best practice. :-)
@sehe Yeah, I'm not surprised. I wonder how many questions are like that.
Especially for C++, where things have changed so dramatically in the last 10 years.
 
5:27 PM
^^ Ha, I love it when people nitpick on coding style when it's completely irrelevant to the question.
 
the best part is that the only thing that requires it is cout and endl
 
6:13 PM
@Omnifarious I'd tend to disagree as a rule. Unless you honestly need a regex to define your tokenization (which you rarely do) it's often going to be a fairly slow, heavy way to do the job--akin to renting a large commercial truck when all you need is a week's groceries for a small family.
 
6:33 PM
posted on October 25, 2017 by Herb Sutter

The Qt World Summit videos were just posted, including my talk which was a condensed (40-minute) version of my CppCon 2017 metaclasses talk with some small tweaks for a Qt-specific audience. Here it is below:Filed under: C++, Uncategorized

 
> As done in the Ranges TS, standard concept names should be defined with CamelCase.
I’m so glad Weird_case doesn’t have a chance
 
I've seen worse: Wtf_Is_This_Casing_Style
 
@fredoverflow when/where is it?
 
@Mysticial Tell me about it:
New, improved version that rights my wrongdoings, hopefully /cc @NeilButterworth — sehe 2 days ago
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah, that concerns me too. The interface is a good one, but requiring that you use it with a regex is not so great.
 
6:51 PM
@milleniumbug So. That's even worse :)
 
I wonder how tied regex_token_iterator is to a regex. Whether you could supply something that worked enough like a regex that it worked with regex_token_iterator but just match any sequence of characters that are all from a set of characters you passed into the constructor.
 
@Omnifarious Well, let's not propagate using the cannon at all times (in a language renowned for its foot-shootability). This one though makes a lot of sense for bread-and-butter parsing of CSV-like input:
@Omnifarious Boost split has that
Pretty sure you have the edit button just like I do — sehe 51 secs ago
sigh
 
 
1 hour later…
8:16 PM
> KotlinConf is next week - 2nd - 3rd November
 
@fredoverflow Sanfran though :(
 
8:44 PM
@sehe I don't like relying on external libraries unnecessarily.
 
8:54 PM
@Omnifarious that's pretty stupid really
Unless you are working only on the most trivial of applications, there's very little to be gained from not using libraries
 
Your map key is a set!? Shouldn't it be the other way around? — Borgleader 45 secs ago
@fredoverflow Is that Scott Meyers?
 
9:12 PM
@thecoshman Like licensing hassles (yes, Boost is BSD licensed, try telling a corporate lawyer that when you include it in product code), build and dependency headaches, cross-platform build and dependency headaches, and a host of other issues. Aside from any of that, depending on external libraries is just fine.
Which is why I prefer answers that don't tell me to use Boost. Once, the standard C++ library was so incapable that it was a reasonable answer to the vast majority of questions. That's no longer true.
Sure, if someone wants to do something that's pretty complex and Boost does well, by all means, recommend Boost.
But for something so dead stupid and simple as tokenizing a string, a thing that vast majority of current languages can do with one or two lines of code, telling people to use Boost isn't really an answer I consider reasonable.
 
@Justin That's Ada_Case.
 
Or Stroustrup_Concept_Case, your pick
 
@Omnifarious Whilst your other points are fine, this I think is the key thing. There's a lot of "Just use this lib" when, the language can support it already. My main point though was your generic anti library attitude was kinda silly. Again, the issues you first raised are valid and good reasons to not use certain lib, I just don't think they justify "I don't like relying on external libraries"
Especially as your initial point sounded more that you dislike the 'reliance' part
 
user406009
I'm much more hesitant to use C++ libraries than libraries in other languages if only because the build systems often used in C++ are horrible.
 
9:27 PM
You mean the package managers.
 
user406009
Well, it's sorta combination of both.
 
I often dont use library because I don't have a package manager for them x)
 
But these are related, of course
 
And I implement pretty basic stuff anyway
 
I rarely not use a library for any of those reasons.
 
user406009
9:28 PM
I'm fine with manually adding libraries to a project (vendoring or whatnot)
 
The chief reason not to use a library is "It sucks"
 
user406009
It's just that getting them to compile everywhere is hell.
 
I don't have big projects :/
 
user406009
It's OK though. Modules will save us.
 
If I was making an actual application, I would probably use whichever library I might need for any reason
 
9:29 PM
Yeah. That's true. When I needed to support Win+Lin+OSX && mobile I did scrutinize all my dependencies for stability on all platforms
@Lalaland get out :)
 
user406009
We just have to keep on sacrificing proposals at the alter of the standards committee and we will get there.
 
@sehe probably the main reason to not use most things XD
 
user406009
And then start writing ModulesV2 once the first shitty modules proposal is standardized.
 
user406009
"Uniform Modules" or something.
 
There was that one proposal to standardize stuff for package managers
 
9:31 PM
@thecoshman Hi, Mr. Sturgeon
@Borgleader stackoverflow.com/a/46942216/85371 Now you guys gone and closed it :)
 
@sehe Que?
 
Sturgeon's revelation, commonly referred to as Sturgeon's law, is an adage commonly cited as "ninety percent of everything is crap". It is derived from quotations by Theodore Sturgeon, an American science fiction author and critic; while Sturgeon coined another adage that he termed "Sturgeon's law", it is the "ninety percent crap" remark that is usually referred to by that term. The phrase was derived from Sturgeon's observation that while science fiction was often derided for its low quality by critics, it could be noted that the majority of examples of works in other fields could equally be seen...
 
@sehe ah
 
user406009
I really wonder what garbage will eventually get passed as the "modules" proposal.
 
user406009
And how the C++ community react to watching all their hopes and dreams die in a fire.
 
9:35 PM
Not sure, modules sound cool but not fun per se
 
It's c++, I'm afraid it will not get less complex. — sehe 4 mins ago
5
The harsh truth
 
9:53 PM
You could add an operator<< overload to the global namespace for iterable types, but that's probably overkill
It's probably what magic_get does to print aggregates though
 
Yeah, the current module proposal is little more than codifying precompiled headers. It's not much of a solution at all.
Even worse, it basically requires even more build hassles than already exist.
 
It protects against evil macros
 
That's true. And that's definitely a plus.
 
And the syntax is slightly cooler than includes
 
What are yall expecting with modules? To not have a header-source split? To be able to say compile main.cpp and it finds the appropriate modules through the file system? I know that the current modules ts isn't what I wanted, but it's hard to put a finger on what it is I dislike about it
 
9:55 PM
The place I'm working at now seems to treat templates and preprocessor macros on basically even footing. :-(
 
I gave up understanding what they actually do though, so I'll have to get bit by their problems first to fully appreciate them
 
@Justin I agree. :-) I'm not sure what I want either. :-/
An end to the preprocessor. That's my biggest desire. But it's hard to know how to do that.
 
Current modules end the need for header guards and #include if we assume everyone migrates instantaneously (which isn't going to happen).
But I don't think that the preprocessor is going away without some other macro function system coming in...
 
Good thing about the header guards, I've already been hit several times by header guards copy-paste :p
 
There's a reason why I use #pragma once whenever I'm allowed to. But I still forget to add it to my headers sometimes.
I think my biggest concern with modules as is is that, IIUC, you aren't supposed to mix things like import std.io and #include <iostream>. That's going to be a problem when trying to use modules while also using libraries that haven't migrated.
 
10:11 PM
no no no
the biggest problem with modules is that it's been 20 fucking years and they're still not here
I think it's just too late
 
That's true
But there's that Chinese proverb: "The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now"
 
you do realize that doesn't actually constitute any kind of rational argument, right?
 
Yes
It's a huge problem that modules didn't happen 20 years ago. But I'd rather not wait another 20 years is all I'm saying. There's nothing that repairs that 20 years of waiting though.
 
I have no problem waiting another 20 years or another 200 years since I no longer use C++
 
Any idea what possible temperature point I could use to double check the accuracy of a temperature sensor for temperatures from 0 to 100 degree
I was thinking of ice 0, boiling water 100 degree, 36.6 human body temperature
 
10:22 PM
You should check it at all the inputs that you will measure.
 
That's fine but I can't check the input that I'll measure without calibration
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Water boiling temperature depends on pressure.
So I think it's a bad choice. Human body temperature is too variable.
 
In both case, we can get a pretty close value but even just boiling water is complicated because water doesn't go from idle to boiling from one time to the other.
body temperature can be measured with a mercury thermometer but even that won't give me really precise result because it really depends on the accuracy of the print and my eyes
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Liquid helium at normal pressures stays at a nice, even 4 degrees (i.e., 4 Kelvins).
 
when I said degrees, I meant celcius
 
10:33 PM
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Since you didn't specify otherwise, the fundamental scale seemed like the right choice. :-)
 
well ice isn't 0 kelvin and doesn't boil at 100 K so I thought it was implicit
water fusion temperature would be more accurate
 
I don't think you ever said that the units had to be the same.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix If you reduce water to 0 Kelvins, it's definitely going to be solid.
2
 
@JerryCoffin Believe me, water at 0 kelvin is impossible
 
Well, the temperature profile of boiling water is that the water rises in temperature until it reaches boiling, then stays there for a long time. So, detecting when it's actually boiling isn't too hard if you have a sufficient quantity of water.
I wonder how water would react if you vaporized it, then trapped the individual molecules in a laser trap. Would they immediately start binding together into ice? Or would you get a cloud of supercool water vapor?
 
10:39 PM
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Well, pretty much anything truly at 0 is essentially impossible (and yes, getting really close to 0 normally involves vacuum chambers and such).
@Omnifarious No, just water vapor wearing shades and the latest fashion in blue jeans, thinking it's super-cool.
 
I'm pretty sure I learned at school that water can skip the liquid phase and that at university even ice can transform itself in vapor skipping the liquid phase.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Yes, water can sublimate.
 
So, you name ice "water" here?
 
@JerryCoffin Kelvin is not measured in degrees, it is an absolute scale. smh
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier H<sub>2</sub>O == water, regardless of phase.
 
10:46 PM
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix I think you are looking for the "triple point"
 
Indeed. However it came forward as unintuitive, I had to reflect on it like, one second.
if feels strange to name water mist water, but that's probably just being used to specify phase each time I speak of water
 
@CaptainGiraffe I'm really looking for things to measure to build a curve for a thermistor
as the sensor isn't linear
@FélixGagnon-Grenier you could have a mist of sulfuric acid
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Well the 273.16K and the 373.16K is a given. What range and precision/accuracy are you looking for?
 
0 to ~120 degree celcius those are my limit I believe
the best precision I can get
 
Can you get a hold of pure alcohol?
I'm thinking you want to do this on your stove-top, and I suppose comparing it to other thermometers are out of the question?
 
10:52 PM
legally I can't buy it in pharmacy but it could be possible to distillate it
boiling of alcohol is around 70 degree right?
 
@CaptainGiraffe How dare you ruin my attempt at a joke (even if it was really lame)?
 
78 if I remember correctly
 
alcohol could be good but on the stove would be dangerous
 
@JerryCoffin Well, if I'm keeping count we are currently even =)
No not at all, unless it is a gas stove and you are boiling it with vigour.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Maybe--but your lame jokes still at least have three good legs.
 
10:53 PM
@CaptainGiraffe I was thinking the same thing. Does alcohol's boiling point depend on pressure?
 
@Omnifarious Yes, of course.
 
Most/all boiling points does.
 
Well, you could measure freezing point then.
 
Only for things that freeze above 0 and that are "easily" available
 
That would be in a really really cold freezer where electronics might go haywire.
 
10:55 PM
That wouldn't bracket the ranges you need, but would give you enough datapoints to calibrate a thermometer with a linear response.
Oh. :-(
 
@Omnifarious I think if you really want it to be accurate, you'd probably want to use something like a pressure cooker that gives a dependable pressure (and therefore boiling point). Connecting the wires from the thermistor inside to the sensor outside is left as an exercise for the reader.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Steel freezes above zero and is easily available. I think most kitchen utensils fit the bill.
 
@Mysticial but below 120 degree
 
Player 4 enters the game with a completely outlandish joke!!! Let's see how this plays out.
 
It's like I have to re-explain the rules every 3 message
 
10:57 PM
@Mysticial Most are of various alloys of which their owners are unaware though. Better to use pure iron.
 
The ceramic plates covering the now retired space shuttle should have a pretty well documented heat profile.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix You expected this to stop being The Lounge, just because you want to be serious?
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Steel is definitely frozen below 120 degrees. And don't call me out on Celsius or Kelvin because it's frozen for both.
 
@Mysticial ...or even 120 Fahrenheit.
 
@Mysticial It's fusion point is above 120 degree, there is nothing to measure for a phase change
 
10:59 PM
The Lounge - Free, but with a 2 drinks minimum requirement.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Come on, you can't just keep making up rules like this.
 
2 drinks per hour, that is ...
 
Nooo, that 3 pointer doesn't count because I moved the arc 10 feet back before you shot it.
 
@CaptainGiraffe I'm exempt from that--as a friend of mine said many years ago: "you don't need to do drugs--you're weird all by yourself."
 
@Mysticial you can call me game master.
 
11:03 PM
@Mysticial Wait a minute. How did three star programming come in here?
 
actually, if you think about it, boiling and freezing temperature would vary on different planets because of different gravity, thus atmospheric pressure
 
@Telkitty Add enough planets and you'll never have to worry about any of those temperatures.
 
@Telkitty Varies pretty widely even on this planet. At 14,000 foot elevation, water boils at ~85C.
 
I like the casual "just ask a sniper" -- do normal people have that trivial of access to snipers? — Bryan Boettcher Jan 10 at 17:01
Oh man. The fact that they replied is epic src
 
11:21 PM
@sehe have you thought about buying a hectare of land and manage 100 chickens?
chickens are like people, but they are birds
 
11:58 PM
@Telkitty No, chickens are not like people.
 
@wilx Wings...
 
@JerryCoffin More like dinosaurs!
 

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