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1:21 AM
god dammit, every time I write something I find a research paper that shows how to do it four times faster.
 
oh man
@fredoverflow that 25th comic
 
@Mikhail pwned
 
@Mikhail Only 4? You're doing better than most academics...
 
The secret is loop unrolling
 
1:27 AM
I've also gained a lot of respect for the CS academic community, the kind of competitive openness (sharing code) is completely absent in the biomedical community. Biologists share nothing. So, when CS people say academia is broken because of what they see in CS - I can only imagine how much more enraged they'd be if they could see our milieu.
 
Is biomedical a field that can get someone rich?
9
If you make a huge discovery, fuck publishing it. Keep it a secret and monetize it?
 
Yes, but nobody lets you make big discoveries
On the other hand, there is certainly a lot of money in CS
 
@Mikhail I'd argue that money is in the "blue-collar" CS. The programmers, not so much the researchers who can make some stupid algorithm that nobody uses run a bit faster.
Of course there are exceptions. Like the page rank algorithm which led to Google.
 
that algo is ez, u pay & u rank top
 
@Mysticial Most of the money is really in software engineering, not computer science.
(but that's pretty much just paraphrasing what you just said).
 
1:35 AM
Also consider the numbers, I think there are maybe 5x as many life science PhD's as there are computer scientists. But the industry sizes aren't 5x different.
 
@JerryCoffin difference being?
 
@Mikhail How does it work
 
@JerryCoffin I mean. At this point, it's hard for me to deny that I'm a "bignum arithmetic" researcher of some sort. But for all practical purposes, I'm living off my job as a "software engineer".
 
@hwlau PI's have a chance to start a company and make money. To be a PI you must do good work. But your PI won't let you do good work because they are focused on their company and making money.
 
@Mikhail PI?
 
1:38 AM
Principle investigator
 
Professor/Principle Investigator
 
oh
 
@Mikhail doesn't it mean conflict of interest?
 
@hwlau Yes. Typically your PI gets a letter from the dean saying their conflict of interest is "managed".
 
managed?
 
1:40 AM
@Mikhail that's what I think is the fatal fraud of capitalism - not inequality, but inherent lack of motivation in making real progress ...
 
@Telkitty I disagree 100%
 
most people are I can imagine
 
The real problem isn't the conflict of interest, the real problem is that most things don't work (as in life). Because academia is "vision driven", you can push for a flawed idea for your whole career.
 
In order to advance in capitalist society, one must make as much money as possible. But in order for society to advance, there must be real progress. Making as much money as possible does not directly translate into making real progress.
 
Its like a startup that doesn't have traction, except it lives for decades in a perpetual death march.
@Telkitty this isn't relevant.
 
1:45 AM
@Mikhail But if the student work with the same vision with PI, why blocks them for good work. Or is it because of the merely potential of having a company
 
@Mikhail Agriculture, construction & education consists of less than 30% of the total people employed. Please explain to me what important things those other 70% are doing ...
 
user406009
@Telkitty A world with only agriculture construction and education would be a very shitty world to live in.
 
user406009
Yes, capitalism has issues (inequality + externalized costs are the main ones imho), but progress isn't really one of them.
 
@hwlau Typically the research direction needs to be modified, but most PI's don't/can't do that. Often times what got somebody a grant and a professorship, is stale by the time they accept it. Sometimes they can't do that because of their vested commercial interests.
 
@Telkitty The same as between engineers and scientists in general. Scientists do research into new and innovative techniques (or whatever). Engineers apply known science to solve problems in their field. The dividing line isn't entirely clear-cut, but it's generally pretty clear.
 
1:49 AM
@Lalaland In the old days, with the bartering system, it’s like my basket of cotton for a chicken of yours. Nowadays a worker works certain amounts of hours a week for certain amount of money which usually was transferred into worker’s account in bank A. Then, maybe later, the worker uses a credit card from bank B to purchase some goods from a website.
The company C behind the website then contracts delivery company D to deliver the goods to the worker. There is a good chance that company C is not the actually the producer of those goods.
I have written this in my blog to express my view
My point is that society has invented many useful things, but it also invented heaps of (what used to be) irrelevant sectors in the name of innovation
 
I got a question, is there some clever bit twiddle that averages unsigned chars (pixel values) without overflow?
 
@Mikhail _mm_avg_epu8()
 
Nifty, now how do I write my own. I need to do it on a GPU...
 
ahahaha, you're fucked.
 
Is there a way to do it without expanding to a larger type?
 
1:55 AM
I have built house that 4 people are actually living in. I have made software by myself that tens .. at least thousands of people have used. So what contribution have you done for society in your whole life?
 
@Mikhail Yes, but it's expensive. Therefore you're still fucked.
 
@Mysticial fuck you, i'll use a lookup table
 
Yeah, you're definitely fucked.
 
Also holy shit
I didn't know you can patent math
 
Silencing of federal government Gag rule Actual Nazis Threat of martial law $20b border wall Goldmann-Sachs cabinet… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/824104341690728448
 
1:58 AM
That's why you're fucked.
 
@Mysticial But multiplication is a convolution with a 1x1 kernel!
 
That doesn't change the fact that you're still fucked.
 
Idk, I plan to go around the patent on multiplication diving the reciprocal. In my field we call it de-convolution.
 
user406009
How the heck is that patentable? It's literally just using a table to precompute a multiplication.
 
user406009
@Mikhail One trick you might try is just ignoring the lower 4 bits of the char. Depending on your data, it can actually be "relatively" accurate.
 
user406009
2:02 AM
(Assuming a 4 by 4 kernel)
 
@jaggedSpire Say hello to your meowness /cc @Morwenn
 
@Mikhail If you know which is the bigger char, then you can do it in 3 instructions: low + ((high - low) / 2), otherwise, you're fucked.
 
user406009
If you only have two chars, you can do first/2 + second/2 for pretty good accuracy. I mean, who even cares about less than 1% incorrect anyways? :P
 
@Morwenn are there also sorting networks that do a stable sort?
In case you happen to know :)
 
user406009
@Mikhail Isn't that patent expired anyways?
 
user406009
2:14 AM
2017 is more than 20 years past the filing date.
 
@Borgleader <3
 
@Morwenn Oh wait. I can augment the sorting key. Never mind :P
 
@Borgleader check out the reviews for 1984 on Amazon
 
@jaggedSpire Apparently its selling like crazy these days
 
@Borgleader It's almost like a high-ranking member of the government is presenting blatant in-your-face lies as fact
or more than one :V
 
2:30 AM
They're learning from the best, who also happens to be the current head honcho.
 
oooh
idea:
They're not lying, they just are receiving information from an entirely different reality and are somehow interacting with this one as well.
They're not alternate facts, they're alternate reality facts
 
@Lalaland I addition its also questionable if it would hold up under litigation. Anyways, I'm more disappointed that it can exists.
 
@Mikhail What it's patenting is not doing math (in a situation where you'd normally have to). It still strikes me as a pretty weak patent (at best), but it's not nearly as bad as you're trying to claim either. Note, in particular, that the "background of the invention" talks about the usual convolving with a kernel (and being there basically means: "this is what's already known").
Their patent is on pre-building tables of the product of the value in the kernel and every possible pixel value, then doing the convolution by looking up the values in the table, without doing multiplication at all.
 
Yes, I know. And I also think its pretty bad given that convolution tables were at some point even printed.
 
@Lalaland If memory serves, 1999 is old enough that it goes by the old rule (17 years after it was granted instead of 20 years after being filed). Expired either way though.
 
2:52 AM
I don't understand std::atomic_signal_fence. "What immortal hand or eye dare frame thy fearful symmetry?"
 
user406009
3:43 AM
@Mikhail Just disable all the signal handlers.
 
user406009
They suck anyways.
 
user406009
Literally one of the worst designed APIs ever.
 
SIGUSR1 and SIGUSR2 are exciting. Surely there's something cool I could do with those.
Like sneaky IPC stuff.
 
user406009
I mean signals themselves aren't a bad idea. It's the signal handler thing which is a problem.
 
user406009
signalfd and sigwaitinfo are "fine"
 
4:00 AM
@Borgleader This question isn't very awesome:
-11
Q: print "awesome,you are".this program output is "you are awesome"

Vivek#include <stdio.h> void a(); void b(); void c(); int main(){ a(); printf("\n"); return 0; } void a() { b(); printf("awesome"); } void b() { c(); printf("you are "); } void c(){ int x; // Your code here } print "awesome,you are".this program output is "you are awesome" hint:one...

 
I am 24 and what is this
 
user6438653
What is a good name for a new programming language?
 
watermelon
 
user6438653
haha
 
user6438653
wat about melonzest?
 
4:10 AM
Finally,...meet Instant web apps in the play store
http://www.zdnet.com/article/google-starts-live-testing-instant-apps-on-android-enterprises-need-to-pay-attention/
 
user6438653
or melon++
 
user6438653
The lemon and I don't get along. He's sour and I'm cold like water.
 
O++
O is the absract version of watermelon
 
user6438653
lol
 
@Mysticial lol "unclear what you're asking"
yeah
 
user6438653
4:17 AM
I think O++ exists.
 
user6438653
Thanks for your suggestion @Telkitty.
 
oooh
I know
 
user6438653
I have come up with O# (pronounced O sharp).
 
Oo
 
name it _,.+=@=+.,_
it'll be a prank on anyone attempting to use a search engine to figure things out about it
until it's just nicknamed something and people use that instead
or
you could name it jif
with a "g" sound
 
user6438653
4:27 AM
haha
 
user6438653
Thanks guys, bye, cya.
 
4:47 AM
@Telkitty No it's the procedural and SEGFAULT
@WATERYMEL0N Hey who are you I've never seen you before
 
O vs 0
 
@VermillionAzure he hangs out in chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/23262/trash-can
 
ouch
 
5:06 AM
DAMNNNN BURNNNN
 
You're not supposed to burn trash, Jian Yang.
 
@WATERYMEL0N Typo
 
user6438653
5:25 AM
lol
 
user6438653
@VermillionAzure I am a ghost.
 
@WATERYMEL0N WOOOOOO YOU'RE ALIVE GHOSTY BOY
!!
But cool. Are you in uni?
 
user6438653
Nope. I haven't been to uni either.
 
Oh high school?
 
user6438653
Yeah. High homescool.
 
user6438653
5:27 AM
@Telkitty, O++ is the name, it's not taken :) O# is taken :/
 
lol
 
user6438653
@littlepootis What's your gh?
 
@pornaddict1337
 
user6438653
somethink erik
 
user6438653
something erik, nv
 
user6438653
 
user6820627
@WATERYMEL0N I forked
 
user6438653
lol
 
user6438653
How did you know I'm here?
 
user6820627
@WATERYMEL0N well i have a userscript
 
user6438653
Uh...
 
user6820627
5:37 AM
that check all mentions about me including link to my profiles
 
user6438653
I have eyes and a browser, lol.
 
user6438653
@LearnHowToBeTransparent That's cool.
 
user6438653
Those stars appeared fast.
 
why does disk utility on macbook take forever to load?
 
user6438653
Because mac's are made by Apple.
 
5:41 AM
maccas apple pie
 
user6438653
Yum...
 
user6438653
Would anyone like to participate? github.com/OPlusPlus
 
6:00 AM
@WATERYMEL0N Umm...no.
 
user6438653
fine...
 
user6438653
bye
 
6:22 AM
@WATERYMEL0N uh
it's empty
 
user6438653
I just created it. I'm on mobile, it's not that easy as git push.
 
user6438653
I think I might just merge it all into one repo.
 
@WATERYMEL0N That's how it is
 
user6438653
Multiple repo or multiple branches?
 
@WATERYMEL0N Project directory
 
user6438653
6:32 AM
So OPlusPlus/blahblah
 
@WATERYMEL0N No, just one.
 
user6438653
Okay o-plus-plus/o-plus-plus like github.com/notepad-plus-plus
 
@WATERYMEL0N No, just do, opp or something
 
user6438653
opp is taken.
 
user6438653
6:40 AM
egel?
 
ez game ez life
 
user6438653
@VermillionAzure You don't have a profile page, and there is two of you.
 
user6438653
Okay, you have a profile page, with 11 or 2000k rep.
 
user6438653
WTF
 
@Borgleader
-20
Q: Finding the length of the longest block of sorted values - JAVA

JRafaelWhat is the value printed on screen by this code segment (Line 17)? Which of the following changes should be made in the code so that the method works as intended? Thanks!

 
6:50 AM
@WATERYMEL0N ....?
Two or me?
 
user6438653
When I go to ping you you have 2 icons.
 
user6438653
 
@WATERYMEL0N Welp idk
 
user6438653
Weird.
 
7:30 AM
Sigh
oh well
 
user6438653
7:43 AM
Eh?
 
user6438653
7:54 AM
bye room
 
Ven
8:09 AM
Yo
 
8:25 AM
@Griwes Was alignof(expression) accepted? I'm not even sure anymore.
@StackedCrooked There are some, but they need more comparators, and the subject hasn't been widely researched.
Also you can stable_adapter<small_array_adapter<sorting_network_sorter>>> :p
 
Ven
@Morwenn i think so
 
nwp
8:41 AM
1 message moved from C++ Questions and Answers
 
Ven
don't pollute this chat with this guy's messages
 
So, who is going to watch Acquisitions Inc., PAX SOUTH 2017?
I guess not. :(
 
9:16 AM
@Morwenn ...I think it was.
but now that you've asked I'm not sure anymore
> Daveed: I will recommend to Robert to drop the unparenthesized case, to add motivation, and a Core issue for the lambda.
 
user6438653
How do tou get a gf?
 
Ven
with melons
 
user6438653
My mum says I need one, lol.
 
So apparently EWG only encouraged further work. :P
 
user6438653
@Ven haha, lol
 
9:21 AM
> Should we solve this problem? 4 | 16 | 2 | 1 | 0
Ville: Clark, consider yourself entertained.
Clark: I want my money back.
Ville: The entertainment is free.
And I even quited it already a while back, earning 6 stars!
> Should we allow alignof((x)) gives the alignment of the type assuming that x is a variable? 2 | 3 | 6 | 7 | 3
Ville: Well, that is guidance of sorts.
Please, EWG, never change. :D
 
9:33 AM
@Griwes He never messaged me btw.
All these core people are so unorganized, Mike Miller hasn't published the core issues list for ages and constantly promises to do so
 
@Columbo ?
Ah. :P
 
And Daveed was assigned to all these EWG issues that I wrote papers for
Ville hinted at that in the discussion of that paper
 
Well. There's a reason why CWG tends to sit in rooms without windows.
:D
 
:D
 
them cavemen
 
9:35 AM
14 hours straight, they're doin GOOD TIME
 
@WATERYMEL0N Become your own gf.
 
user6438653
haha
 
@Morwenn Wait...... you're a girl, right?
You and Melissa from std-discussion must be the only language lawyer women in the entire industry.
Oh, and LRiO.
 
@Columbo Not really. Currently it's more like a guy with boobs.
 
user6438653
Haha
 
9:38 AM
@Morwenn And long hair.
 
@Columbo Except I'm not a language lawyer :o
 
Insane fashion choices.
 
What?
 
@Morwenn Let's just say you are for the sake of statistics.
@Morwenn long hair. not exactly normal for guys, is it?
 
@Columbo It's not abnormal to be a guy and have long hair.
Duh.
 
9:39 AM
It is.
 
It isn't.
Are you trying to offend me?!
 
@Columbo Many guys I know have long hair.
 
:D
 
I'm sitting in an entire lecture theatre of men right now, and not a SINGLE one has long hair.
 
If not most.
 
9:39 AM
@Columbo Weird.
 
Most??
 
@Columbo I know many metalheads.
 
Especially so if it's a CS-related lecture. :P
 
Oh, you mean mankind is basically men and men with boobs?
It is, coincidentally. :P
 
Also where I live guys often have long hair (more than in the rest of the country I think).
 
9:40 AM
France is weird for many reasons.
 
A CS-related lecture with no long-haired guys is a weird place.
 
Their movies are basically good looking depressed guys with cigarettes.
 
It'd always weird me out were it not for the fact that me being in such a place adds a long-haired guy to the crowd. :P
 
@Columbo Well, are movies are weird.
 
@Morwenn Fiction is weird.
In fact, I postulate that all is weird.
Including weirdness.
And the word "weird".
Five different letters, two vocals? gtfo!
 
9:47 AM
@Columbo What about words like « voyez »?
 
@Morwenn Yuge Heresy.
 
user6438653
night bye
 
@Columbo What about Lisa Lippincot then?
 
@Morwenn Who is that?
 
@Columbo She who wrote « Layout-compatibility andPointer-interconvertibility Traits » this year.
 
9:51 AM
What's that? An article?
 
A standard proposal.
 
Pointer-interconvertibility was introduced by P0137.
I'll take a look, anyway.
 
> I opined that there should be a way to statically assert layout-compatibility, so that the error would be caught at compile time, rather than dinner time.
 
"Over dinner at CppCon, Marshall Clow and I..."
:D
Damn Marshall, I didn't know you had it in you!
Okay, that paper is not exactly an epitome of programming language research
She proposes four straightforward traits
 
The one about procedural function interfaces is a bit more hairy.
 
9:55 AM
Well, nonetheless, a female language-lawyer.
Neat.
 
Also we owe her the Lippincot functions to handle exceptions :p
 
Interesting.
Next time at CppCon I will be the one having that dinner
 
With Marshall?
 
I'm gonna propose
A feature
@Morwenn Hahahaha
No, with Richard
My crush
 
:3
 
9:57 AM
:3
 
I need a C++Now talk topic :x
 
Smith-senpai
 
The deadline is encroaching :|
So, folks, if you're looking for a list of things that might be problematic when using clang-format... here's one.
And the reason for this monstrosity is...
> Default BOOST_MPL_LIMIT_VECTOR_SIZE is set to 20. I needed bigger capacity of boost::mpl::vector
And the person who wrote it even acknowledges it can be changed, but fails miserably at understanding that you can define macros on a compiler's command line.
 
@Mysticial lol, not awesome indeed
@Mysticial Another botany candidate
 
10:51 AM
Hmm, there's still no standard way to declare misaligned structs, right?
(Like struct alignas(2) { int32_t x; };)
 
Why, isn't that possible? Just apply alignas to the class definition?
 
alignas cannot weaken the natural alignment of the type.
 
Oh, that's what you meant.
 
And since you cannot weaken it, it can never result in misaligned stuff.
I wanted to do this to define a struct for a file header that is 42 bytes.
So I can just istream::read to it with reinterpret_cast.
Stupid audio formats.
And the padding is not at the end; that I could solve with seek. It's in the middle, so it results in wrong reads. Guess I'll have to just read the members one at a time :<
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz yes.
last in first out, wouldn't make sense otherwise.
You couldn't write F a; F b(a); otherwise.
 
IOW this code is nonsensical?
 
No, because copy elision.
 
Ven
?
 
11:12 AM
Oh, it's a global variable. I guess it has to be copied, then.
 
boost::shared_ptr<Message> MessageReader::getLatestMessage()
{
    boost::interprocess::scoped_lock<util::Mutex> scoped_lock(latestMutex);
    return latestMessage;
}
this thing
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, I specifically constructed my example to try it out. I'm not sure if it's the same as the above.
 
Without copy elision, there'd be two copies.
noisy_copy();
noisy_copy(const&);
end of scope
noisy_copy(const&);
Like this.
In your code, the first copy was elided.
 
so what I'm thinking is
the shared_ptr isn't copied until the end of scope
 
11:15 AM
The second copy is the one done in main()
 
because of copy elision
which means another thread can free it in the meantime
is that right?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what that has to do with my code?
 
for what?
I just want to return it
I guess
I'm not sure, I am reading this for the first time and I got a crash and this function and lock don't make any sense
 
11:23 AM
Actually, I'm a bit confused now :|
The return value is supposed to be constructed before destroying the local variables.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes really?
 
Which is as I expected.
But I don't understand why that is being elided.
 
I'd expect that too, but that's clearly not what GCC is doing
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes if it’s elided, then no side-effects which you are not allowed to rely on will be sequenced before
 
This is a potential flow problem with dire consequences, like in my case. Either way, wording in [stmt.return] is at the very least, very misleading then.
 
11:26 AM
@BartekBanachewicz No, it's the right wording.
I'm just missing the part that allows the elision
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes which was my point exactly
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh, I'm fairly sure it is allowed. I just forgot where to find it.
 
> Under the following circumstances, the compilers are permitted to omit the copy- and move-constructors of class objects even if copy/move constructor and the destructor have observable side-effects.
uh
okay maybe I'm getting to far there; is it OK to simply return a shared_ptr? Or do I need atomics for that?
return atomic_load(&myPointer); seems pretty dumb, but maybe that's what needed
 
If you're doing concurrent writes (=non-const member functions) to a shared_ptr, then you need to synchronize everywhere.
@BartekBanachewicz If you do that, don't forget to do the same in all other concurrent uses.
 
as a matter of consistency?
 
11:32 AM
No, correctness.
 
well yes
There are only two uses here
 
boost::shared_ptr<Message> MessageReader::getLatestMessage()
{
    boost::interprocess::scoped_lock<util::Mutex> scoped_lock(latestMutex);
    auto copy = latestMessage;
    return copy;
}
 
and they had that one mutex
 
Funnily enough, I think this would fix it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Just out of curiosity, would return atomic_load(&latestMessage); work as well?
@R.MartinhoFernandes It should
well, unless it can also be optimized out :/
 
11:35 AM
I'm not sure.
 
the really aggressive elisions are for prvalues
 
OH
There's a bug in your first example, @Bartek.
You need to name the scope_printer, otherwise it's just a temporary.
 
 
1 hour later…
12:41 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh shit
now what
what does that tell us
could that mean that the original code was fine?
 

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