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12:04 AM
user image
8
Honesty is an underrated value... Or what
 
@sehe beautiful! We've got a live one here!
 
It's unfathomable how people can get so hollow minded
 
Hello, Cruel World!
 
world is not cruel, raise a baby chicken!
 
@sehe One ticket to mars plz.
 
12:11 AM
You want icecream with that?
 
Sure, I hear the ride is quite long.
 
> Final update GlobalSign's efforts as a root certificate authority have gone TITSUP this afternoon – that's a total inability to support usual protocols.
Copywriter for the win
 
The ambition of having people to live on Mars before 2030 is like to hope a toddler who can not even walk to run before the age of 3 months
Once my dad said 'when a ruler dies, most people who are crying are the middle aged women'
 
@sehe RIAA isn't about the needle, per se. It's about the equalization applied (treble is usually lower in volume so they boost it to improve signal to noise ratio).
 
I know. I was making the words work together
I've implemented my own RIAA corrector in analog components. I should still have it lying around in the shed
 
12:36 AM
@sehe Ah, quite interesting. One of those places you can do a perfectly acceptable job with only a couple of capacitors and resistors, but in pursuit of perfection some have used dozens (and I've heard claims of one that used a couple hundred, but never confirmed it nor do I entirely believe it).
 
I'm pretty sure I half assed it. Using some magazine printed diagram :)
 
yep, looks like a couple of capacitors and resistors >_<
 
12:51 AM
@Telkitty Most likely very few of either. Digital design is mostly transistors, though DRAMs use lots of capacitors. There are ways to fabricate resistors on a chip, but most of them are relatively painful--lots of chip area and difficult to get accurate resistance.
@sehe The simple design (two caps and two resistors) can actually work really well--nothing half assed about it at all. The more complex designs may have flatter frequency response, but also often introduce quite a bit worse phase response. Many keep specs people happy, but sound no better (and audibly worse isn't all that rare).
 
What the heck is going on?? Apparently avast anti-virus is blocking sites such as wiki & aliexperss. But when I disabled web shield, aliexpres account name section is filled with char string 'au1181888633kayx'?
 
2:14 AM
wtf, I overpaid my credit card again - instead of paying 32xx dollars I paid 52xx dollars
why am I such an idiot
overpaying it by $2000
anyways, looks like I don't have to pay credit card bills for the next 2 months ...
 
 
2 hours later…
4:06 AM
"This seems more like a way to attract turkey vultures." "My mom always told me a turkey vulture is just a friend you haven't met yet, usually because you don't smell enough like decaying meat."
6
 
5:03 AM
@sehe Is it true that dinosaurs had feathers
 
Anyone home?
 
5:57 AM
cd ~
@Code-Apprentice yup
 
6:09 AM
Glad too hear it
 
if I work at home, does that count as at work?
 
When you making $$
Most monarch have home offices
For example, queen usually works from home
 
well, working remote pays less in about 95% of the cases, and it's open to house distractions
although it does save time and money on transportation
I love that dude on youtube, "simple programmer" he has some good videos on job-related stuff
 
I am stuck in the traffic, chatting
 
His story from getting paid very low, and doing the impossible, then trying to find another job but not being able to get passed the recruiters
then over time he learned the secrets to getting paid what he's worth, and currently makes at least 300 bucks an hour
although he's like the top 1%
 
Ven
6:24 AM
Yo
 
I'm probably the bottom 1% : p
 
Currently I am investigating the art of doping people into meet up with you
 
It's all about image
Having a decent-looking resume and/or portfolio and/or github
 
I am visiting your continent next March, do you want to meet up @cod
 
You sound like you do mostly remote work
I know a dollar can go a long way in India, makes a lot of sense to work remote there and similar countries
I've seen, actually, internet connection speeds out there faster than NASA
 
6:36 AM
-1
Q: & means stack and * means heap in C and C++?

user7017173Does & mean stack area and * mean heap area in C and C++ syntax? I'm C and C++ novice, so not used to pointers. But as reading C and C++ source codes, for example in GitHub, I wondered & means stack area and * means heap area in memory. It'd be great if anyone who are familiar with this kind of ...

Wow, just wow
 
wow, where do people come up with this stuff
 
And be amazed at the rep-whoring that ensues
 
Ven
@Rerito :[
 
All the answers deserve downvotes
 
Probably mark it as a duplicate of something
Those answers.... gah.... so noobish it hurts
A decent answer would at least mention smart pointers
What's the difference between Alzheimer's and a memory leak?
I forgot.
 
7:26 AM
@PatrickM'Bongo they're called bird leaves
 
@wilx will watch that later :P
 
Sam
Hello folks...!!
 
7:49 AM
inline variables in GCC7.
 
@Morwenn WTF is that?
 
@wilx Easier way to write constant global variables without ODR problems.
 
@Morwenn Ah.
 
> Your assumption, of course is that any C++11 compiler implementation supports std::shared_ptr. Fair enough. Thanks !
The boost mailing list attracts interesting queries. Or queryers
 
so the concert yesterday was amazing
 
@wilx 541 in the queue :O
 
@thecoshman :D
 
498
 
@Telkitty lol
 
449
435
(someone work out the ETA from these please)
422
399
366
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I wouldn't ride it without a helmet
 
I guess the "so safe you can ride it without a helmet" is gonna be rescinded after the first crash
 
Ell
That sounds p stupid to me
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah
 
also good luck protecting the rider from car drivers
 
169
@BartekBanachewicz SOAD in Prague :D
 
8:20 AM
lel
 
153
 
I was on SOAD when they came to Poland and was rather disappointed
 
lel?
 
huge concerts are terrible
 
yeah, but still
 
8:20 AM
OTOH Paul Gilbert yesterday was really nice
@thecoshman nah, not really. Wouldn't go again.
I'd much rather to go to concerts with a few hundred people tops
 
126
and now I have standup :S
 
8:35 AM
and all that is left is terrible seats :(
 
user1804599
daily startup meeting
 
user1804599
I want to eat garlic bread with chicken tandoori.
 
Does any language lawyer feel like explaining to me why this is rejected? I'm trying to re-understand 12.8/32
 
I usually sit down during the daily standups.
 
user1804599
Like a calzone.
 
user1804599
8:45 AM
@AndyProwl Because you can't copy-construct Base, but return d; would slice through copy construction.
 
so?
let it slice
 
user1804599
How?
 
user1804599
Slicing is just normal copy construction.
 
you can do Derived d; Base b = std::move(d);
 
user1804599
It's not a special rule.
 
8:46 AM
that lvalue should be treated as an rvalue based on 12.8/32
> when the expression in a return statement is a (possibly parenthesized) id-expression that names an object with automatic storage duration declared in the body or parameter-declaration-clause of the innermost enclosing function or lambda-expression, overload resolution to select the constructor for the copy is first performed as if the object were designated by an rvalue
 
@StackedCrooked I think the 'you have to standup' bit is one of the silliest things people fixate on
@AndyProwl I don't want that data any way
 
I'm asking why it is rejected
not whether it is desirable
 
rejected because it's undesirable?
 
@thecoshman it's meant to make the meeting short
 
user1804599
> constructor for the copy
 
user1804599
8:48 AM
not move :F
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh no I get that, but it's the thing that people seem to focus on most, ignoring many of the other things that they get wrong
@rightfold move/copy is basically the same :S
 
@rightfold what is the point of treating it as an rvalue if a "copy" is to be done anyway? Copy there also includes move
like in "copy elision"
 
@AndyProwl I actually get what you mean... if you can copy construct a base from a derived, saying you don't care about the derived stuff anymore, why not do the same for move. If a function only takes a base, I don't see why you can't move the derived to the base... you don't free any space, but you just can't access the derived stuff
 
I'm not trying to find a rationale for slicing here
I'm just asking why it is rejected, the Standard seems to say it should be ok
 
yes you are!
 
8:53 AM
I can imagine that slicing makes it harder for the compiler to implement this.
 
@AndyProwl Current wording is different.
> in a return statement in a function with a class return type, when the expression is the name of a non-volatile automatic object (other than a function parameter or a variable introduced by the exception-declaration of a handler ([except.handle])) with the same type (ignoring cv-qualification) as the function return type, the copy/move operation can be omitted by constructing the automatic object directly into the function call's return object
 
That's the copy elision part
 
Emphasis mine.
 
But [class.copy]/32 has another clause
7 mins ago, by Andy Prowl
> when the expression in a return statement is a (possibly parenthesized) id-expression that names an object with automatic storage duration declared in the body or parameter-declaration-clause of the innermost enclosing function or lambda-expression, overload resolution to select the constructor for the copy is first performed as if the object were designated by an rvalue
 
¶32 only applies if the copy elision criteria are met.
 
8:55 AM
> When the criteria for elision of a copy/move operation are met, but not for an exception-declaration, and the object to be copied is designated by an lvalue, or when the expression in a return statement is a (possibly parenthesized) id-expression that names an object with automatic storage duration declared in the body or parameter-declaration-clause of the innermost enclosing function or lambda-expression
 
It literally opens with "When the criteria for elision of a copy/move operation are met"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes There's an "or" inside.
 
and it literally follows with "or"
 
Can you parenthesize the part I quoted the way you read it?
 
(copy elision criteria met && lvalue) || (id-expression designating an automatic object)
this is how I'd parse it
 
8:58 AM
Since there's no semicolons, I put the || at the tightest scope.
 
English is such a bad language for technical specifications.
2
 
> when [...] or when
 
Ven
English is such a bad language.
 
I think that means the || is at top level
 
@Griwes I think the intended Rube Goldberg-esque specification here doesn't help either.
 
9:01 AM
Hm, how would this work at the implementation level? I think RVO requires the compiler to provide space for the return value before the function is called. If the object allocated inside the function doesn't fit inside that space then RVO can't work. (Just speculating..)
 
user1804599
Proof trees are great for specifying typing and evaluation rules of programming languages.
 
user1804599
Fuck English.
 
@StackedCrooked The point is, if you read this as @AndyProwl does, then d is an rvalue in that return statement and the move constructor of Base is invoked.
 
Oh right.
 
If you read this as @R.MartinhoFernandes does, you need to write return std::move(d); to get that behavior.
 
9:02 AM
I confused it with copy-elision.
 
ye
 
user1804599
ECMAScript standard uses lists of steps and nested lists of steps everywhere. And function calls. It's nice too.
 
It's in the same place, and the paragraph starts with mentioning copy elision... :P
> ECMAScript anything
> nice
 
user1804599
I didn't say ECMAScript was nice.
 
user1804599
The specification is nice.
 
user1804599
9:03 AM
It's a good specification.
 
All right, guess I'll have to ask on SO
 
user1804599
According to vampires you just did.
 
What's the use case for the unary plus operator when used with builtin types?
+n is same as just n
 
nwp
If I ever find a compiler that supports both C and C++ but implements bool and _Bool differently, I'll hunt its programmers down, I'll find them, and I'll sit them down and explain to them why they this is a huge mistake. — paulotorrens 20 hours ago
sounds like a case for Hell++
 
This makes it sound like the intended meaning is for || to be top-level
 
9:14 AM
isn't it easier to explain in effects? copy construct and copy assign can turn into move when param is a temporary or is not used again. Var decl followed by a placement new move construct can elide the move by making the Var an alias to the memory location aka.: A a{}; /*...*/ new(b)(std::move(a)); can turn into new(b)(); A &a; /*...*/
 
@AndyProwl aaaand that makes every C++14 compiler fail hard at compliance? lol
 
I guess
 
(According to N3903 it has been accepted.)
 
0
Q: Why is move constructor not picked when returning a local object of type derived from the function's return type?

Andy ProwlThe following code is rejected by both Clang and GCC (trunk versions): #include <memory> struct Base { Base() = default; Base(Base const&) = delete; Base(Base&&) = default; }; struct Derived : Base { Derived() = default; Derived(Derived const&) = delete; Derived(Derived

just in case
 
I'd argue that a defect claiming ambiguous wording should be filed for [class.copy]/32.
 
9:16 AM
TBH it's not ambiguous to me
It's either a compiler bug or an incorrect wording
I am left in doubt only because I find it unlikely that both GCC and Clang have a bug wrt this
 
It's not 100% clear how the "and" and "or" bind relative to each other.
 
the "or when" makes it clear for me
if it was just "or" then I'd agree it's ambiguous
 
I've allowed myself a small cosmetic change in the question.
 
No prob
 
@AndyProwl Right. But it's only obvious to me after you've pointed it out.
 
9:19 AM
Yeah but then 95% of the Standard would require a defect claiming ambiguous wording
at least for me
 
Nah.
Only the parts where the sentences are long as fuck.
(And not just long, since for instance 14.7.3/7 isn't really ambiguous. :P)
> member functions of member templates of class templates
This paragraph is truly dedicated to its purpose.
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl sounds like ambiguity to me
 
@Griwes rewrites everything
 
@AndyProwl or a time-space distortion
 
that would make sense
 
9:32 AM
@AndyProwl dang I'm too slow today
It's the second you've beat me virtually by seconds with a comment.
Gonna leave this one though.
 
@Griwes dang looks like clang
2
 
@Griwes me every day
 
9:44 AM
Confession accepted, now entry recorded on the internet for the rest of your life. Have a nice day!
 
Sup guise
Hey @AndyProwl :D
 
user1804599
> One of the worst flags in the world comes from the state of Antwerp in Belgium. It's a chess set on acid.
 
user1804599
I think it looks nice.
 
Which links to Jonathan Wakely stating that "Core DR 1579 changed the rules so that the return value will be treated as an rvalue even when the types are not the same. GCC 5 implements the new rule, for C++11 as well as C++14."
 
10:00 AM
I remember (9.) from my interview. That is where the recruiter then did not like my answer either.
 
@Griwes yeah, I've noticed it, but it seems it was never implemented. Not even in GCC eventually. Not sure what's going on
 
Do chat pings work when someone's not autocompleted?
 
any comparison is more efficient using a large enough lookup table and 10^100000000 cores
Some of those tech interviews are designed to find the biggest nerds not the most intelligent employees
 
10:17 AM
@Griwes Do I work when I'm not fully self-realized?
@wilx It was fun.
> (**) Google pagerank: the ultra-secret mathematical formula demonstrating that sponsored search results rank higher than reality can.
 
> A 8-bit lookup table can process bytes one after another
^never heard of instruction level parallelism?
 
101
A: Can't reset my password: strange link given in the "account recovery mail"

Adam LearWe've received similar reports on and off over the last couple of years. The short version of the problem is "your email provider is an idiot". They blindly replace the word "overflow" with "java-script". Why? No idea. But I found a similar report here: If you fix the URL manually (the domai...

What the hell is wrong with developers
@ratchetfreak Still conceptually right. The instruction level p. applies to the other contenders too. However, some algorithms can be SIMD optimized. That's a different ball game
 
new Ayreon album in progress <3
 
@sehe what. the. fuck.
 
A battery that lasts all day. Unlimited online storage for all your photos and videos.
 
10:26 AM
yet another instance of email are not secure ways of communicating, EVER
 
doesn't sound very appealing ...
I like go multi day hikes in remote areas, neither battery that lasts only 1 day nor unlimited online storage in places without internet seems very tempting
 
What does your phone have to do with your hiking hobby. It's like saying you dislike wine because it's not at all convenient when traveling by bike
 
Maybe it's a phone for metropolitan indoor people
 
Maybe it is. You know. Maybe they cater to the largest markets
This looks like a really bad attempt to sanitize input. (We can't blame the website for this.) We might as well be in the Medireview Ages. — Laurel Aug 16 at 23:33
 
true, except this largest market is shared by 20+ other competitors
I am looking at aliexpress.com - almost 10+ brands of android phones for under US$150 on first page alone
 
10:33 AM
> It also blocked e-mails sent in Welsh because it did not recognise the language.
Holy shit this is insane.
 
even iphone 7 didn't get much of market share this time round
 
People are really bad at technology.
 
s/technology/things/
going jogging
 
@sehe what the fucking
 
@BartekBanachewicz What do you mean "the intercoursing"?
@Griwes Welsh is not a technology
5
 
10:55 AM
yesterday, by R. Martinho Fernandes
The only de jure official language in the UK is Welsh.
 
hello guys
 
11:19 AM
4
A: Why is move constructor not picked when returning a local object of type derived from the function's return type?

T.C.[class.copy]/32 continues: [...] if the type of the first parameter of the selected constructor is not an rvalue reference to the object's type (possibly cv-qualified), overload resolution is performed again, considering the object as an lvalue. The first overload resolution, treating...

 
i.imgur.com/bmq3eU7.png In which I stress tested our report generator and my laptop produced a shiny 1.1GiB PDF of almost the perfect number of pages.
 
we're all dumb @Griwes
 
wtf
so C++ has a rule that was probably coined to foil slicing, but instead just makes slicing slower?
 
I don't think slicing plays a role in the design of this rule
 
coining a rule means "suggesting an adequate name" (for a new concept/phenomenon)
 
11:22 AM
@AndyProwl Then why the fuck does this rule even exist?
 
I feel like "we need to do something about slicing" is the only thing that is a (relatively) sane explanation of this.
 
AFAIU it also prevents returning a unique_ptr<Derived> when the function returns unique_ptr<Base>
 
Bartek confirmed to be slow in the uptake and forgetting about room culture
 
Ven
@AndyProwl that'd be retarted.
Covariance is good™.
(so, no, it doesn't do that)
 
11:23 AM
I won't tart you again
 
I mean, returning an lvalue unique_ptr<Derived>
 
@AndyProwl that'd be an abhorrent abomination (that fits my description of the rule)
 
I worded it badly, sorry
 
Jesus this rule is bad.
 
Abominable abhorrations are to be preferred
 
11:24 AM
@sehe what culture
 
I meant doing like auto p = make_unique<Derived>(); [...]; return p; when the function returns a unique_ptr<Base>
 
The worst thing is that I don't think I can easily find relevant rules for this.
 
Ven
@AndyProwl that's not an issue.
 
3 mins ago, by Andy Prowl
I don't think slicing plays a role in the design of this rule
 
@BartekBanachewicz Of hurrying to the lounge to post dev-related news, accelerated by the controversy-index
 
11:25 AM
^ I was just trying to find evidence for this claim above
 
iow you could have known you're late
 
:) keming
 
the blog is p stunning if true though
 
It's pretty obvious there is a truth, much enlivened by a great writing style
The writing style, though, clearly doesn't seek nuance
 
11:27 AM
wait what
 
ok, I'll hold
 
also I am gonna need some resources on how to design PCBs and I see an @Ell that could lend me a link
 
Ven
@AndyProwl compare this and this. I love C++
 
@Ven Seems to work here
why leaves me even more confus
 
11:29 AM
@AndyProwl Because the conversion ctor fits the rule.
template< class U, class E >
unique_ptr( unique_ptr<U, E>&& u );
 
@Griwes oh
yea
 
@AndyProwl I note that Ven has the good habit of proper naming
 
This always results in an rvalue ref to the exact type of the returned expression.
 
@sehe lol my bad
 
God C++ is a terrible language
11
 
Ven
11:30 AM
@sehe meh foo bar
 
@Griwes You preceded me this time
 
Really, if you want anyone to look at your code, the naming helps a lot. I'd probably skip on the foo/bar thing had I not previously understood what the sample was about
> Template Terribols
 
Ven
Verbibols
 
@Griwes pat pat
 
Yeah, I know the naming was bad, but I also knew everyone involved in this convo already discussed this previously
So I was assuming context
inb4 quote about assumptions
 
11:33 AM
lol the top 3 things on the starboard right now
 
@Griwes room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Things are bad and generally disappointments. And then there's C++ [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++-faq]
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I wish I could help
But I don't think I'm any more qualified than you at designing PCBs
 
I see
I thought you did some hobby electronics hacking with them
 
Ell
I did but
I just used intuition
 
11:41 AM
I see
i wanted to kinda find some resources first
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz are you doing any RF or high frequency stuff?
 
Hello Guys. I posted a question in C++ Q/A room, but seems like not to much people in it. If some of you will be interested to help I will be very appriciated.
 
this tool is pretty cool
as in, it looks like it's really helpful in order to avoid mistakes
 
Ell
Make sure you DRC often
 
11:49 AM
Do the Right Crap?
 
@Ell ^?
I see that I'll prolly use Fritzing or KiCad
Fritzing is nice because it has this Arduino sim like circuits.io
actually circuits.io also has some hw export features
 
You just connect over ssl. @Milind coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/9546326fd1def416sehe 1 min ago
The ever-stunning Coliru, using 1 selfcontained SSL client and server (complete with CA, cert and DH params) /cc @StackedCrooked
 
12:05 PM
"the stackoverflow nazis here are always watching" - yeah that's one sure-fire way to not getting your question answered. Read How to Ask and provide a Minimal, Complete, and Verifiable example, emphasis on minimal. — CodeCaster 4 mins ago
 
nwp
@Borgleader I'm disappointed that the irony of the first comment seems lost on people.
 
yeah...
 
At work... could someone try to hunt down a torrent for me?
 
@Borgleader ow man
@thecoshman Probably not. You see, torrents aren't illegal, but if you can't look for it at work it probably is, anyways?
 
user1804599
Code::Blocks is a pretty nice compiler
 
Ven
12:20 PM
@rightfold oh, you
 
nwp
my rightfold filter works this time
 
user1804599
Merging databases is fun with UUIDs.
 
Ven
@nwp haha :)
 
@sehe just because torrent sites are filled with boobs :P
 
12:34 PM
true
it's tedious but works
 
I need to buy a soldering station
 
@BartekBanachewicz a simple iron is not enough?
 
the temperature fluctuations are a tad annoying
it doesn't give you consistent results
the stations aren't that expensive though
 
@Bartek Have I asked you about unit testing in Lua before?
I think so.
 
12:43 PM
The topic keeps coming up here, but still no action.
@BartekBanachewicz Are there frameworks or something?
If we don't come up with something before, I'll just make it my next hack days project.
@BartekBanachewicz What are you soldering?
Are you doing SMD with an iron or something?
Since the Lua code runs in a sandbox, it should be possible to do a lot of cool stuff. Everything is mockable!
 
@BartekBanachewicz I made the mistake of buying a gas burning one ¬_¬ not only was it nigh impossible to fill with gas and then light, it was utter shit for soldering
 
TIL they sell gas-burning soldering stations
 

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