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00:00
because you ":D"
user1804599
I’d say it without the “:D” too.
shhh
user1804599
I wish cancer upon almost nobody, so why would I wish school upon anyone?
user1804599
I was thinking of allowing values to have multiple data types at the same time.
@rightfold Nearly everyone survives school. OK, there may be permanent brain-damage, but thy're not dead.
00:05
no way
Brillant
user1804599
@sehe without subtyping.
@Xeo btw, how did your appointment go?
@rightfold I think perl has typeglobs, akin to this?
user1804599
I have no idea.
Xeo
Xeo
@StackedCrooked it went and relocated itself to next Wednesday...
user1804599
00:06
> Perl uses an internal type called a typeglob to hold an entire symbol table entry.
@Xeo it was rescheduled?
Xeo
Xeo
ya
@Xeo The linker/loader is trying to kill us.
relocate sounds ambiguous in the context of joints and ligaments.
user1804599
Perl doesn’t really have many types.
Xeo
Xeo
00:07
search chat for me throwing my phone out of the window
user1804599
You can bless things to associate them with modules.
@rightfold I was specifically remembering it being able to have values of different types at once (most importantly, file handles(?))
@rightfold that's not the same thing. In fact, it's unrelated, because you can only bless references, and that would be subtyping
user1804599
Well, you have to be able to create your own types otherwise it’s not very useful.
the implementation of boost::any makes me horny
@Xeo damn, that's cruel
user1804599
00:09
@sehe The main use of typeglobs in modern Perl is create symbol table aliases. This assignment: *this = *that; makes $this an alias for $that, @this an alias for @that, %this an alias for %that, &this an alias for &that, etc. Much safer is to use a reference.
@Jefffrey I don't know if I should be disturbed or somehow impressed.
@Borgleader do you know the implementation? (don't look it up if you don't)
I haven't looked at it no
@Jefffrey why? What's the spiffy part?
@Jefffrey I think boost variant is way more interesting.
00:11
@Borgleader just think how you would implement it
I recently posted a my_any doodle foor some poor "I-carnt-use-boost" guy
@StackedCrooked I've yet to think about that, but it's definitely the next thing I want to try and implement
3
A: boost::any replacement for the code below

seheJust for fun, I thought I'd create a minimalist any implementation: ////////////////////////////////////////// // my_any.hpp #include <memory> #include <stdexcept> struct my_any { my_any() = default; template <typename T> my_any(T const& v) : _storage(new storage<T>(v)) { } my_any(m...

@sehe eh, let borgleader try thinking about it by himself
Would be more boring if it told you "sorry, you're type is too large to be called Any Type".
00:13
eh
you can do virtual ~f() = default;
@Borgleader (considering than you should avoid storing the type)
sounds like a compiler bug
@Jefffrey Well, I'm absolutely sure that my code is so pedestrian - it's not gonna make even you horny. So, I'm guessing there's something I'm missing (I know I'm missing features)
@Rapptz Why would that be a bug?
because it's explicitly allowed by the standard
inverted something?
00:14
hmm
I've been mesmerized by boost::variant for a couple of months now.
@Rapptz that does not make sense in respect to what you said earlier
@Jefffrey Huh?
now... *that's* a different animal!
Huge respect for people keeping their abstractions straight when doing this
@Rapptz you can do X, sounds like a compiler bug -> why -> because it's allowed by the standard
00:15
1 min ago, by sehe
inverted something?
I smell contradiction
@Jefffrey Oh I just realised I didn't post the comment
error: 'virtual my_any::storage_base::~storage_base()' declared virtual cannot be defaulted in the class body Also, on the line: "Properties(const std::string &s="", const my_any& p={}) : name(s), value(p) {}" I get error: expected primary-expression before '{' token — user3204803 Jan 20 at 18:58
I was referring to this.
@Rapptz GCC 4.6, IIRC
lol
@sehe that's more or less how I've implemented it myself
the nice part is that it's clever
I can't see another way - unless you reimplement unique_ptr
00:17
I probably would have never thought about it myself
@Jefffrey It's /just/ type erasure. That's the only clever part. And we can thank BS for dynamic_cast
So, I'm thinking, did you just discover the beauty of type-erasure? You could do with a bit of Sean Parent talks :/
welp
now downloading... 13 jiggabytes.
@Jefffrey I honestly have no clue, but since I haven't actually used any, I only have a vague idea of what it does, so... that doesn't help.
@Borgleader now look at sehe's answer posted above and get horny
00:20
Oh please... no :)
You can get horny over Rapptz's one. It uses alias-style traits!
Why does that implementation remind me of Sean Parent's no inheritance thing?
because it's just type erasure
TIL how type erasure works =/
@sehe well, I've actually used a static_cast with a runtime assert for some reasons
@Jefffrey Am I the only one here who gets horny over porn and not code?
00:24
yes
go away :P
@Borgleader I don't need to know..
(and yes, I realized member function get is not a good idea, today)
@Jefffrey .template get<> :)
@sehe, then there were some troubles with C style arrays that I had to solve at construction and assignment with some std::decay magic
@sehe yeah, I didn't know that when I wrote it :(
@Jefffrey You didn't have to. I think boost::any handsomely refuses them too. I did compare
@Jefffrey So, you learned something. Good!
00:27
@sehe nope, I've tried it on coliru and it worked fine, so I had to make it work too
mine does decay
Mmm. Maybe talking about different things
@Rapptz I notussed. With pretty modern traits:)
@sehe oh wait, maybe it was just char*
That would resonate with my memory. Not a big deal, for me. I'm not replacing boost::any seriously :)
of course not, silly :P
00:28
I'm also not using it. I haven't found a real use case. When does one use boost::any?
when you want to write python style code in C++
when you want to rape the type system
@ScarletAmaranth if you have time I recommend this one. One of my favorites! :D
@Rapptz I'd prefer a variant even then. But I wager you mean, all the while bridging your C++ type hierarchy as well.
I had one use case for it but I replaced it with regular ol' dynamic polymorphism.
00:32
@StackedCrooked I am on it! :) (thanks :P)
When I was in Japan I bought the full manga.
Only later I realized that I can't read Japanese.
(at least not well enough to read the manga)
@Rapptz wtf std::nothrow
But I don't regret the purchase :p
@LucDanton No throwing allowed.
00:34
haha, sure
I totally need to learn Japanese at some point
but oh god it's so daunting to start a new language
@Rapptz Just like std::move moves and std::forward forwards, right?
except this is literally what std::nothrow does
no throwing
On an unrelated note, I would totally making this my ringtone: hearthhead.com/card=48/voidwalker
@ScarletAmaranth I took classes for four years and I kinda miss it now
@Rapptz Play, Attack or Death?
Play obviously
00:36
Oh right, I forgot what he said xD
@StackedCrooked I need to find a good book / online resource, I think it would be more bother for me to actually get dressed, wake up earlier, go somewhere, spend 2 hours there, come back, etc., too much hassle around going places :P
@Rapptz However, move_if_noexcept may end up copying. There was something more subtle about that, but it evades me now
@ScarletAmaranth There are people that managed to self-educate in Japanese. (I would not be able to do that though.)
Our very own @Rapptz being one of them?
You can find them on r/learnjapanese.
00:38
@StackedCrooked I self taught myself all the skills I value (English, Guitar, Programming, Chess to some extent...)
I self-taught myself everything too
Love making, etc…
English was originally more of a necessity though
all dem games were in English
@LucDanton No exceptions!
@StackedCrooked r learnjapanese, dayum, I should have thought of that, thanks
00:39
Learning by hand.
> So, appearently move_if_noexcept also returns an rvalue reference for move-only types regardless of whether the move constructor throws or not. If the function’s name is any indication of a contract this looks like a breach of contract to me. cpp-next.com/archive/2009/10/exceptionally-moving (note probably not current)
@ScarletAmaranth There's an SE site for japanese also IIRC
@Borgleader yep
/r/learnjapanese is okay
yeah
00:40
@Rapptz lol I'm not the only one here who is subscribed to the subreddit? :)
move_if_noexcept is more like, do_whats_best.
I subscribed with the intention of helping but other people do it better
@DeadMG I remember this too. But the name "suggests" safety
can you make an array of structs?
00:42
no
It’s a potentially strong (i.e. for the purpose of exception guarantees) move. Hard to find a catchy name for that.
^ A bra that refuses to unlock until detecting "true love"
I posted it before ..
@Crowz .. you wat?
00:43
@StackedCrooked for weird definitions of "true love"
> static_assert(std::is_copy_constructible<Decayed<T>>(), "Concept violation: T is not CopyConstructible");
we need concept lite
@sehe It only unlocks if the heart rate exceeds a threshold or something like that...
like when violated by a rapist ...
@StackedCrooked Girl goes for a run and pop it opens...
00:44
@StackedCrooked Oh good. I was thinking we might have to rape them with their bras on. That would have been inconvenient
Yeah, it seems kind of ...flawed.
IT SEEMS LIKE A LOAD OF BULL CRAP
There. I said it
@StackedCrooked I raise you, HD Vision Glasses
@sehe Your feelings about this are way too strong.
00:45
Japanese people are not very sexually oriented folks.
@Jefffrey I was too lazy to include my concept headers
Impressive
@doug65536 lol
@Rapptz well, IIUC, you are just kinda renaming type traits in your concepts header
@doug65536 Oh, btw the perl cgi problem was solved. Sys admin upgraded mysql without upgrading the cgi/perl accordingly
<hentai/>
(that's japanese for <cough/>)
@Jefffrey Look further.
00:48
@sudorm-rfTelkitty nice
@sehe fuck it, would it be easier to write this shit in Java?
@Rapptz ok, maybe you do more. What I meant, though, is that with concepts lite you get error messages that are clean to read
@Crowz definitely
the errors are not that bad if you look at them yourself
@sehe According to Wikipedia: "In Japanese, the term describes any type of perverse or bizarre sexual desire or act.". I think in the West this is called fetish.
00:50
Non-Japanese folk think hentai is just porn
In the west, we call it a night!
@Rapptz ok, but "error: T is not CopyAssignable" is much better. And let you remove that static_cast for example
@sehe Hah, not for me. I took the rest of the week off.
Oct 27 '13 at 15:11, by Rapptz
In instantiation of 'constexpr bool gears::require() [with T = std::_List_iterator<int>; Concepts = {gears::MutableRandomAccessIterator}]':
dev.cpp:7:68:   required from here
./gears/concepts/alias.hpp:71:5: error: static assertion failed: Concept Violation
     static_assert(And<Concepts<T>...>(), "Concept Violation");
     ^
close enough
@sehe It's as safe as it can be.
00:52
@sehe hmm well here's a question... can I make a simulator in python or JS? That would make it so easy
@Rapptz I guess ;)
C++1y will have concepts?
maybe
yay, (maybe) no more 1000+ character error messages!
let's just hope the for(identifier : something) proposal does not pass
(:P)
00:54
@Jefffrey Whats wrong with it
@Borgleader I does not have a valid use case. But it has been discussed to the nausea already :). Some like it, some don't.
@Jefffrey Pretty unlikely.
as far as I'm aware, there are no serious drives towards full concepts.
user3010322
@ScarletAmaranth Pssst. When you do your raytracing camera, are the resulting generated rays heading towards Normalized Device Coordinates (-1 to 1 or 0 to 1 on x and y of the image plane) or are they in Image Coordinates (0 to w and 0 to h on the x and y of the image plane)?
Modules is more likely and I doubt that.
and body
oh wait, you meant full concepts
00:59
that's concepts lite, not concepts.
and secondly, it's not even likely that C++17 will have them.
@DeadMG what's lacking?
it's virtually impossible that C++14 will.
but is it pure virtually impossible? :p // =0;
@Jefffrey Er, well, everything.
concepts lite has little to do with actual concepts.
it's just SFINAE but a little prettier.
you still have to do pretty much all of the work.
then I probably have the wrong idea of concepts
I see concepts as restrictions on template arguments, with overloads and stuff like that
01:02
I used to think like Puppy until I got proven wrong
concepts lite seems to satisfy those requirements
that's a part of what they do but not only does concepts lite do it quite differently, but concepts offer a lot more.
for example, concept maps.
I am okay with concepts lite now
the only thing actually missing is concepts map
the rest is there
well, also the part where you have to laboriously define crappy SFINAE-based constexpr functions to actually determine what does or does not meet a concept.
instead of it being in the language proper.
outdated
I used to think that too but it is no longer the case
read the latest proposal
it's changed a bit (surprisingly)
01:05
eh
that is not the concepts lite that ever stood a chance of making it into C++14, which is what we were discussing.
@Rapptz Alright.
(also, concept maps and similar functionality is a pretty serious part of concepts).
no it's the proposal that is currently being proposed for C++ 14 TS
@Rapptz Right, because as I said, it doesn't stand a chance in hell of making it into C++14.
it never did
01:06
the TS means "We might think about it for C++17 but probably not".
it's always been "a bit after C++14"
that sucks
@ScarletAmaranth this was pretty good (with jet sounds!)
basically a glacial pace
...2020: compilers still don't implement 2016
01:14
in 2013 they already fully implemented C++14
@Rapptz and stdlib?
there weren't any major stdlib additions for C++14 iirc
but yes
user3010322
@Rapptz One Compiler*
user3010322
The rest are still biting the dirt.
user3010322
Is GCC 4.9.0 out yet?
01:17
>caring about MSVC in 2014
4.8.2 is latest (stable anyway)
01:41
@sehe As a musician what do you think of this piece. (The intro is a bit weird. It really starts around 50s.)
I guess probably not much..
Ah well :)
@Rapptz AFAICT not much has changed. As a specification it’s improved (some of the tentative wording is very good, and even the ‘fill this in’ later bits are useful), but the scope and intent is largely similar.
the original concepts lite proposal I saw had an awful way of definining concepts
it was literally the same as traits
And it is…
e.g. template<typename T> struct is_equality_compatable { ... } etc
no it isn't
which paper did you read?
N3889
I want that moment of my like back btw.
01:47
sec
template<typename T>
concept bool Deref() {
    return requires(T p) {
        {*p} -> T::reference;
    }
}
?
doesn't seem like the same thing to me
It’s no less a trait.
@Rapptz Neat graph :) Although I'm not clear on the difference between concurrency and parallelism
it's different than having to make 2 structs for every single trait and having to mess around with decltype and std::declval<T&>
least to me
I’m not digging back into the old papers outlining the different types of constraints. Namely because there were too many (it’s a good thing they were consolidated), and some were mentioned in passing rather than explicitly explained (convertible vs constructible vs contextually convertible and other nonsense).
the original proposal had something like this
template<typename T>
constexpr bool Equality_comparable()
{
    return has_eq<T>::value && Convertible<eq_result<T>, bool>() && has_neq<T>::value && Convertible<neq_result<T>, bool>();
}
:s
so it's an improvement
01:51
You can still do that. There is no change with that respect.
yes but the way to define a concept now is much easier
Okay but that wasn’t the point.
oh, well that was mine (?)
I don't know what else I'd want out of a concepts proposal outside of concept maps
52 mins ago, by DeadMG
it's just SFINAE but a little prettier.
& other diatribe, to which you made a counter
Concepts-lite remains lite.
what is it missing outside of concept maps?
honest question
01:55
I don’t know. The word ‘axiom’ is thrown around typically.
@Rapptz You can search for ‘axiom’ in the chat, and esp. look for messages by ScarletAmaranth which was wondering in the same line of enquiry not too long ago.
too much couscous to word gud
contract based programming?
Ah, that’s different.
I must be getting a different vibe then (?)
axiom symmetry(T x, T y) {
    x + y <=> y + x
}
Hang on.
that's the vibe I got from the proposal
N2887
> Axioms have all been part of both C and C++: Traditionally, we write *p = 0 and know that the implementation may assume that p points to a valid object of the appropriate type, and blindly dereferences p. As users, it is our obligation to ensure that the assumption is not violated and we should not complain too much if it was.
02:05
@Rapptz The thing is, that often involves runtime checks. E.g. AOP sometimes venture into that territory, where the matter of strongly checking the contracts or not can then be an aspect — I think, not exactly something I’m familiar with. I’ve never heard of anything to do with concepts to go into that direction.
Seeing a lot of contract systems implemented by macros, preprocessing steps and so on as well.
user3010322
@Borgleader Golden.
02:29
@Borgleader It is becoming harder and harder to find decent games, in the sea of basement projects in Steam.
02:41
so, can something that's really written in C be modified slightly enough to use C++-only compatible stuff?
Time to play some games while SO fixes my problems xD
@ScottW HAI :D
I would never plonk you <3
I'm starving
pretty much
all I've had for food today is 3 eggs
yeah I ate those 3 eggs like 9 hours ago
yeah I'm really fucking hungry right now
also it was so cold today that a lot of places closed
too high
it was like -45 C this morning
which is -49 F
right now it reads -31 C on my phone :v
nop
lol
whistles
user406009
Someone should update the tags.
user406009
[no-doge]
user3010322
♬♪~
02:54
where did my doge go?
such hypocrisy much prejudice
user3010322
@ScottW Hey honey bunches~
@ThePhD Doge coins coming to age have a [exponential] influence on the financial market
I meant @ScottW
S.E. Makes 302 million a year or SAVES 302 million per year in the programming industry?
hah I made a joke
03:15
Why is it so hard to find a cheap TI-89
03:34
0
A: How much money does Stack Exchange make?

sudo rm -rf TelkittyWe will find it out when it does IPO in next year or two. I mean, eventually it will go float, unless it 1) bankrupts or 2) gets bought by another company. 1) Don't think that will happen, but it is just a personal opinion. 2) If another company buys SE, it would be the like of Microsoft or ...

ate so much
about to explode
2 mcchicken, large fries, and 2 olive sandwiches
no food at home
too late for grocery shopping or restaurants
I had pizza yesterday
:(
looks like this!
yours must be ancient lol
these came out like 11 years ago
I like the older TI-89 anyway
reminds me of my cool TI-83
yeah I tried ebay but it's ebay so it's either a scam, spam, expensive, or a dumb bidding war
03:54
Oo idiots are downvoting me again on meta ... as if they did not prove their stupidity in that thread in regards to the other C++ room
in a democracy, even idiots get to vote, sigh ...

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