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12:01 AM
have I mentioned that Clang's source is awful
 
you have
 
it's that kind of awful where you have to really try to make it so bad
ICU implementation kind of bad
 
oh wow
what are you looking in Clang's source for?
 
Xeo
@thecoshman 'twas an awesome season
 
@DeadMG Get a job at Google and cleanup that mess!
Or is it Apple?
 
12:12 AM
Clang is Google AFAIK
 
Apple
 
I don't see you working for Apple.
 
lol
 
holy christ
what is it with these people and Doxygen instead of actual documentation?
"Thank you for automatically extracting the header file and adding a couple hyperlinks. It explained exactly how the implementation of these functions works, and how to set your 1billion implicit members"
even OpenGL doesn't have a matrix stack anymore
you know you're doing bad when OpenGL has a better interface thanyou
 
12:19 AM
Doxygen pushes you to document all your methods which is silly.
/**
 * @brief Gets the item.
 * It really gets the item.
 */
Item getItem();
 
People use documentation generators still?
 
Is there any indication that they ever stopped?
 
@TonyTheLion apple
 
But Google definitely is working on Clang as well.
LLVM is (mostly?) Apple though.
 
anyway, I can't get llvm::Function* without llvm::Type*, and Clang does not appear to give out that anywhere.
 
@TonyTheLion Oh, he's from Calgary. That means he's a redneck. And Alberta is closer to an American state than an actual part of Canada.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Where is it even getting Toes from? haha
 
It's the verb "to" for the third person.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wait, what?
 
That documentation is written by a tool. Which is a silly as it sounds.
 
Xeo
12:26 AM
Agh, I need to sleep. x_X
 
And that tool is "smart" enough to conjugate the "verb".
 
@DeadMG haha
 
@EtiennedeMartel If that's an offer, I'll accept Banff and Lake Louise on behalf of the United States. :-) Not so sure about Calgary itself though.
 
right
if I have some names, I can manually look them up, and then ask Clang to mangle them, and then look in the llvm::Module to see if Clang kindly put them there.
then I can get out a llvm::Function*, llvm::Value*, llvm::Type*, etc.
I think
 
Can you compile hello world now?
 
12:36 AM
dunno
 
@JerryCoffin hahah
 
How come std::to_string and std::stoi aren't working under MinGW
 
TIL how AST's are made
 
first I'll have to spend a decade dicking around so that Clang and LLVM actually build and link
 
@TonyTheLion They're not brought by a stork, right?
 
12:38 AM
Nickelback & Avril Lavigne. There hasn’t been this much pure Canadian crap on one team since the 1980-84 Maple Leafs.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wait a minute. How'd you know? That's supposed to be a secret!
 
Storks are large, long-legged, long-necked wading birds with long, stout bills. They belong to the family Ciconiidae. They are the only family in the biological order Ciconiiformes, which was once much larger and held a number of families. Storks occur in many regions of the world and tend to live in drier habitats than the related herons, spoonbills and ibises; they also lack the powder down that those groups use to clean off fish slime. Storks have no syrinx and are mute, giving no call; bill-clattering is an important mode of stork communication at the nest. Many species are migrato...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Verb this.
 
this?
 
"thissed"
kinda like being Jossed, no?
 
12:40 AM
Two adult ASTs come together and the male AST inserts a branch into the female's depth. Nine months later, a tiny AST root is born.
 
Not to defend SVN, but 7000 files at once? Really?
0
Q: What implications do large revisions have on Subversion?

sholsappI recently committed a large revision (~7,000 files) to my svn repository. These 7,000 files only make up 5% of the overall size of the repository which uses FSFS backend. Ever since, checkouts to revisions after this mega-commit take 20x longer. What is Subversion doing internally that is causi...

 
Holy moly.
WTF:
Sounds like someone is doing it wrong.
Very very wrong.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm sure glad somebody else thinks so. For a minute there I was thinking maybe I was the one who was utterly clueless (though, to be honest, I always think I am, at least a little bit,when it comes to revision control).
 
Who the fuck commits 7k files all at ones to a repo???
I mean, why would you work on 7k files and never commit in between?!
 
Could be some massive automated change.
Put a comment atop all files or something.
I sure hope so.
 
12:48 AM
0
A: Memory allocation of base class and derived class constructor

Cheers and hth. - AlfFirst, allocation, the reservation of memory which you’re asking about, is different from and precedes initialization (execution of a constructor that essentially sets suitable values in that memory), and the formal (our Holy Standard) and the in-practice differ on whether memory for a mo...

^ An example of drive-by link pasting.
He he.
I just think that probably few if any of the others present in the lounge, are aware of the possibility of non-contiguous memory for a most derived object, so I thought I'd put that link down.
 
Ell
I am clueless when it comes to debugging
 
If I have decent tests, I rarely need the debugger. Often I just look at the test results and figure it out.
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf How would that happen? Surely a most-derived would always be laid out contiguously?
 
oh you write tests?
as in unit tests?
 
12:52 AM
I wonder if my new job will have unit tests in it
never had to write them before
 
My last job involved writing a tool that could be used by the testers to generate automated tests for some legacy code base.
 
@ecatmur i agree for the in-practice. and once i thought it was so also for the formal. however, a few commitee members (i think it was mainly dave abrahams) argued very convincingly that their intention was not only to support virtual inheritance, but to actually allow the compiler to split a most derived object into pieces.
 
Well, technically, it was to fix bugs and finish an existing tool that some other guy wrote, but I ended up discarding most of that bug-ridden mess.
 
ah I see
you do spend a lot of time outside your job coding, right?
 
I think so.
 
12:59 AM
I seemed to have that impression
also, because you spend a lot of time here talking about code stuff in here
and TMP
 
Ell
I have never written tests
 
But don't get the wrong idea. I do other stuff. I play games, I go out with my friends, I spend time with my family, I read books. But lots of my alone time is dedicated to coding, yes.
 
I feel coding is done best alone
I do the same though, spend time with friends, family, reading reddit, etc
but lately I haven't spent much time coding
I did do some reading on various algorithms though
 
Ell
I don't do that much coding, more reading about coding andlearning to code
never done an actual project though
 
@TonyTheLion I don't really like it. I much prefer working on a team.
 
1:03 AM
hmmm
 
Ell
I've never worked on a team although I would like to
 
Sometimes coding alone is nice. Depends on the person though
 
I don't mind working on a team, but not with a bunch of idiots
 
Ell
I imagine the increased speed of development is good for morale
 
Well, unless that team is a bunch of lazy fuckers like the team that got together for that dead project, Kyrostat.
 
1:04 AM
there has to be some people with more experience so I can learn something
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh you hit the nail on the head there. :P
 
Ell
kyrostat is dead?
 
I would say it's pretty dead
never really got going
 
Ell
it was barely even started?
 
There hasn't been a commit or message in months.
 
we kind of all went into a wait for @Domagoj
 
Ell
1:05 AM
well that's what happens when a team of programmers try and write a game
 
and then he disappeared
 
The bastard!
 
I wrote a few lines on my networking code
but then got involved in a work thing
and kind of forgot about it
 
Ell
from what it seems half the work is art, a quarter content and there is not much programming
 
> seen yesterday
 
1:06 AM
it's obama's fault
 
Ell
esp. If you use an existing engine
 
@Ell quite a bit of programming
 
I haven't seen that lazy fuck domagoj in 999999999 years
 
^ follows logically from "it's all Obama's fault"
 
Ell
which I don't see why you wouldn't
 
1:07 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think he has a lot on his mind with his company
@DeadMG you had to jump on that bandwagon, didn't you?! :P
 
Ell
I would like to contribute to a project though. like postduif
 
I've been saying it since long before it was a bandwagon
 
@DeadMG ?!
 
You're the carpenter that built the bandwagon?
 
Ell
did.t he do the website?
 
1:08 AM
precisely, he aint that lazy :)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes To get a project like that going, somebody (usually just one person) needs to write at least enough of a framework that others (can at least least see where they) can jump in and contribute something meaningful and (especially) be able to compile, run, and see results fairly quickly. Otherwise, it never achieves critical mass, so to speak.
 
^ Bacon-fields!
 
@JerryCoffin It also needs someone to push things along, which we definitely haven't had
 
Ell
I tried contributing to postduif but the message protocol was not specced well enough, or I can't read
probably the latter
 
Speaking of lazy fucks, the last commit on ogonek is from 27 days ago... I need to finish that text class now that work isn't hectic anymore.
 
1:09 AM
nothing happens, unless it's made to happen
 
Ell
kickstarter anyone?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes wow, doesn't seem that long ago in my mind
 
just egg your contributors on with an iron stick
oh wait...
 
@JerryCoffin AFAIK they cannibalized some code the puppy had.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I never saw that code
 
1:10 AM
@TonyTheLion I've been working on it, but very slow. Work was tiring this past month.
 
and didn't puppy get upset and rage quit after a few hours into the project? (@DeadMG)
@R.MartinhoFernandes ah I see
 
@Ell not me, i'm only interested in web-dusign, now progressed to fancy background :-) katika-prototyp.appspot.com
 
Ell
canniblaized? as in critiqued far too much?
ooh fancy
 
Oooh, a with ring.
 
Ell
1:13 AM
@r.martihnofernandes is ogoknas your Unicode lib?
 
Ell
also I can't slepp
*spell
that was a genuine accident
brb getting a bowl of mini weetabix
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf What do you call that å thing? Unicode calls it LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH RING ABOVE, but for some reason I doubt that's what natives call it.
 
it's like the "o" in english "for"
 
Doesn't it have a name?
 
1:16 AM
as we all know, "ghoti" is pronounced "fish" in english: "gh" is like in "laugh", "o" is like in "women", "ti" is like in "station". i.e., "fish"
 
it's just an Å
29th letter in Norwegian alphabet
 
Ell
a with a circle
 
....gah
 
Ell
1:17 AM
does å mean "to"?
 
on its own an "å" is like "a" or "an" in English
no
 
Ell
å snakke
 
sorry
yes, like "to" in English
"to speak" - "å snakke"
 
Ell
yay I remembered some
is "en fisk" "a fish"?
 
Ell
1:20 AM
and "fisken" "the fish"?
 
a small fish?
 
Ell
yay definate and indefinate article
 
@sehe "litel fisk"
 
Ell
don't know the word for small :P
 
1:21 AM
"liten"
 
nilfisk <-- radek
 
Ell
my vocabulary is extremely small
 
so, I have this .c file, which I'm trying to compile with MSVC...and I'm getting a whole bunch of linker errors for pretty much every function in that file saying "already defined in crypt_util.obj" :/
 
lulz
 
Ell
1:21 AM
is it litel fisk?
 
@Ell there are worse things
 
crypt_util.c is the only file they are defined in though...??!
 
@Ell no, it's "liten fisk"
 
Ok, that was not a typo, that was me trying to be silly and almost actually guessing it.
 
Ell
@sehe to be extremely small? ;)
 
1:22 AM
as opposed to "stor fisk"
 
@melak47 you link it twice/link to the object while compiling the source
@Ell yeah that
@Cheersandhth.-Alf sturdy fish
 
Ell
does the adjective always preceded the noun?
 
Fish bought in a store.
 
1:22 AM
@sehe yeah, but how the crap did I do that? it's only ever included once
 
@melak47 a stray .o on some command line
 
I'm in visual studio :/
I didn't write my own makefile :/
 
it makes command lines, you know
 
what's the exact linker error?
 
pastebin
 
1:24 AM
I'm going to sleep.
 
nop, FTFY
 
Have fun everyone.
 
@melak47 you probably have function definitions in a header file, without making them inline. a not uncommon cause is to have explicit function template specializations, forgetting to add inline. however, that doesn't apply to C?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes nop tight
 
error LNK2005: "char * __cdecl crypt(char *,char *)" (?crypt@@YAPADPAD0@Z) already defined in crypt_util.obj
 
1:24 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes G'night.
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf well...there is no header file
 
@melak47 how many sources are there, anyways
are these functions not already in some .lib/.a file ?
 
crypt_util.c, and main.cpp. all main.cpp does is include crypt_util.c, and have an int main()...
 
are you using #ifdef macros?
 
YOU WHAT?!
INCLUDE crypt_util.c?!
2
 
1:26 AM
yes. lots.
 
@melak47 uh oh
 
why are you including a .c file
 
@melak47 Fix THAT
 
right...extern blub the functions instead?
 
Ell
separate into header?
 
1:26 AM
just make a header containing the prototypes. No need to write 'extern'
 
yeah could just rewrite it into a .h file
 
can I just rename it .h? :/
 
NOPE
 
@Rapptz there can be valid reasons for doing that, including some schemes for maintaining multiple platform code. but usually it's not done for good reasons but just out of ignorance.
 
same difference. In you header, just write char * crypt(char *,char *);
 
1:28 AM
yeah I know how to write a header file, but I don't really enjoy copy/pasting all these prototypes :p
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf clearly since he is asking the FAQ on duplicate symbols ...
@melak47 You enjoy linker error much better!
 
>_>
 
@melak47 Some (many) compilers can extract prototypes for you to plop into a header.
 
@Ell mmmm Weetabix. I ate SOOO much of that stuff, it's just yummy :)
 
is your .c file that huge for it to be a bother?
 
1:30 AM
@Rapptz well it's 1000 lines of beautiful C :)
 
Has anyone ever seen this C++ talk ??
 
@JerryCoffin IDEs
 
Ell
I could survive off dry wheetabix alone
 
no, only with milk for me
 
@TonyTheLion I saw that today on Reddit
 
Ell
1:32 AM
I like both
 
@Rapptz lol
 
@melak47 who was it that wrote that pearls book?
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf I, uhh, what?
 
what about that book
 
1:34 AM
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Jon Louis Bentley
:)
also, google.no is kind-a funky
 
yaay it compiles
 
congrats
 
woot. You just dumped everything into a single TU ?
 
@sehe No -- compilers. Some IDEs may also, but VC++ (for example) can extract prototypes from C using -Zg, as in: cl -Zg crypt_util.c > crypt_util.h. Obviously you need to edit the header afterward (in even the most trivial case, you need to add an include guard, and in most you'll also need things like struct definitions and such.
 
@sehe ? nah I made the header file :p
 
1:38 AM
@JerryCoffin whoa - never knew. name a competing compiler with the feature :)
 
Ell
ahh Norwegian confuses me
 
woot²
I thought you didn't enjoy that :)
 
@JerryCoffin it only gets the prototypes?
 
Ell
hmm. i want more cereal
 
1:40 AM
I only needed about 10 of the functions
 
Does anyone here use MinGW for gcc 4.7.1
 
well meh - I'll just keep on writing them. I have vim to do the chores
@Rapptz I might have that at work
 
@sehe can you get std::to_string and any of the new string conversion functions to work?
 
"Knuth points out that while the first binary search was published in 1946, the first published binary search without bugs did not appear until 1962."
2
 
@sehe Back in the MS-DOS days, pretty much all of the "pro" level compilers did (MS, Zortech, Watcom, Metaware, etc.), but the hobbyist level (Turbo C, Quick C, etc.) didn't. Apparently gcc and Clang aren't quite in the "pro" level though... :-)
 
1:42 AM
oh wow
 
@Rapptz not tried. I do 'recent' stuff on it though. I sure have boost and used it with -std=c++11
@JerryCoffin har har
 
@sehe Yes, but it can be (is) a little stupid at times. For example, many MS headers include inline functions, and it'll generate prototypes for those along with those from your code.
 
7 mins ago, by sehe
well meh - I'll just keep on writing them. I have vim to do the chores
 
Ell
jeg ønske jeg hadde en hus
I wish I had a house (how correct is that?)
must sleep! God natt!
 
God natt!
 
1:54 AM
"jeg ønsker jeg hadde et hus"
 
@Ell G'natt.
 
you're doing very well
 
2:10 AM
if you have struct A {}; struct B {}; struct C : public A, public B {}; can you do C* c = new C; B* b = c; delete b; ?? Is the delete valid here?
 
@TonyTheLion You need virtual destructors for any hope of validity.
 
right
yes, they were there in the example I was reading
I just shortened what I typed here
 
user406009
Can I find the average of a set of numbers by finding the average of the high byte and the low byte and then combining the averages of the high and low?
 
user406009
Unsigned 16-bit integers.
 
the high byte of which numbers in the set? All the numbers?
 
user406009
2:18 AM
Yeah
 
right, and you're storing it in 32 bit unsigned?
 
user406009
I have an array of 16-bit unsigned numbers which are stored in network byte order. I want to find the average of this array.
 
user406009
Can I just do it in pieces by finding the averages of the high and low bytes?
 
why don't you just add them up, and divide by array size -1?
seems easier
instead of adding high bytes and low bytes, etc
also, why do you want to do it that way?
 
user406009
They are not in machine byte order, so I have to convert them first if I want to manipulate them reguarly.
 
user406009
2:22 AM
The more I think about it, converting makes more sense anyways.
 
I think that if you don't convert first, it's gonna get messy
and hard to debug
convert -> find average -> result
seems simple enough
conversion functions already exist
htons ntohs etc
I don't know if there's C++ variants of these, actually
 
2:36 AM
@TonyTheLion None of which I'm aware -- given a pure function, I'm not sure what you'd really do to make them any more "C++ish".
 
that's a good point
anyways, bed time
 
Hmm. I wonder if creating a color by computing the CRC24 of a string would be a good idea.
 
2:55 AM
@EtiennedeMartel Depends on what you do with it, I guess. If you're trying to reproduce something mindless, tasteless and garish (e.g., Warhol) it'd probably be just about perfect.
 
@JerryCoffin I got a pie chart, and I want to set a color for each section of the chart, but I don't want that color to be randomly generated.
And the data is dynamic, so I can't hard code it.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Hmm...I think I'd try to make it a bit more intelligent, and encode the percentage into the color. I'd probably start with something like HSL/HSV, and pick points equidistant around the hue "circle" for each company, and a lightness based on the percentage. Then again, maybe not. The only way I'd use a pie chart would be if I was trying to cover up the information, so nearly random colors to distract from the content might be the right choice.
 
3:15 AM
@JerryCoffin Interesting. I'll look into it. Thanks.
I'm using a pie chart to show clearly which asset package is taking up the largest amount of disk space after compiling.
 
good evening :)
 
@EtiennedeMartel The problem is the pie charts don't show percentages nearly as well as people often assume. They're pretty good if differences are large, but if they're close, most people can't even be sure which is the largest. If you really want to get into it, Edward Tufte's books (e.g., The Visual Display of Quantitative Information) are really good.
 
@JerryCoffin What do you suggest?
 
@EtiennedeMartel For all their lack of pizazz, simple 2D bar charts work really well. Sort them in order by percentage (or size, or whatever) and seeing what's largest becomes utterly trivial.
 
@JerryCoffin Hmmm. Interestingu.
 
3:26 AM
why cant this be real....
 
@ITNinja It's a conspiracy to hide the black helicopters from us!
 
I just wish they were check boxes so i can select all. except for the 1m lol
 
4:09 AM
y they launch windows 8 on my birthday
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf They're going to crash your birthday party, hoping it'll give Windows 8 that extra bump in popularity -- bring back the magic, so to speak.
 
5:01 AM
hum
 
@ITNinja I like the taunt option.
 
SAL could only potentially make sense for C, not for C++. But consider that Microsoft got even the annotations of MessageBox wrong. This means that SAL is worse than worthless junk: it adds extreme verbosity which slows programmers down, and the little information it conveys is often wrong (as my example illustrates), thus not only slowing programmers down but actively misleading them. So even for C I'd say it's pretty counter-productive to use SAL. Just say NO!Cheers and hth. - Alf 47 secs ago
 
Never heard of SAL before.
 
HAL's sister?
 
I've heard of salle de bain though.
 
5:10 AM
"Dave ... my mind is faaaaaaaading..."
HAL 9000 is a character in Arthur C. Clarke's science fiction Space Odyssey saga. The primary antagonist in ', HAL (Heuristically programmed ALgorithmic computer) is an artificial intelligence that controls the systems of the Discovery One spacecraft and interacts with the ship's astronaut crew. Being a computer, HAL has no distinct physical form, though is visually represented as a red television-camera eye located on equipment panels throughout the ship. HAL is voiced by Douglas Rain in the two film adaptations of the Space Odyssey saga, and speaks in a soft, calm voice and a conversati...
 
I remember the scene. It was one of the few non-boring moments in the movie :)
^ So true :D
That's how I interpret ratings.
 
5:26 AM
@StackedCrooked Source Annotation Language. Take Hungarian Notation, reduce it to the point that even what minuscule use it might have theoretically have had in a few situations is eliminated, then separate the annotation from the variable name to ensure extra verbosity.
 
5:48 AM
@Cheersandhth.-Alf And even those had errors, like relying on (a + b) / 2 giving you the (rough) average of two integers.
@JerryCoffin Any concrete examples for that?
@TonyTheLion Yes, but it's been some time, and I remember nothing about it. I guess that means it wasn't that great.
 
@FredOverflow They have some examples on the MSDN page.
 
@JerryCoffin I was asking about Herb Sutter, not SAL, or are they the same thing? :)
 
@FredOverflow Oops -- sorry 'bout that. One from a while back was pushing garbage collection based on the theory that it improves type safety because what a pointer points at is no longer the declared type if you've deleted what it points at.
 
The C++ and beyond video was kinda anti-tmp near the end. I can imagine that the robot would take offense. :P
 
@JerryCoffin Well, I tend to agree with him. C++ is not exactly the most type-safe language ever.
 
5:58 AM
Herb being the oracle of wrong. That doesn't resonate my thoughts. I always thought he was an excellent educator.
But, apparently 5 stars means that other people agree.
I must be missing something?
 
@FredOverflow I'm not arguing that it's particularly type safe at all -- but trying to class a dangling pointer as an issue of type safety seems far-fetched at best. Pushing GC to eliminate this on the basis that it would improve type safety strikes me as about equivalent to being in favor of pollution to get prettier sunsets.
 

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