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12:02 AM
I'm not. At all, actually
 
I made it a proper question, if anyone is interested
0
Q: vector of __mm128 won't push_back()

kbokThis simple SSE code: #include <vector> #include <emmintrin.h> int main() { std::vector<__m128> blah; blah.push_back(__m128()); } Crashes on MSVC 10 with a segfault at 0xffffffff. What could be going wrong ?

 
Is it an unwritten rule to upvote things posted here?
 
No, on the contrary
 
@Drise Only if you think it's good (:
 
@kbok Absolutely not
 
12:03 AM
@kbok Are you sure alignof(__m128) is 16? Just to make sure.
 
@sehe I mean, I like myself a good set, but That's not what I think about every 10 seconds.
 
You take the risk of being massively downvoted if your question sucks.
 
According to this it looks like 16
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh yeah, I assumed this is the case since it's a VC intrinsic. I'll check.
 
Wait, that's not what I meant.
I meant alignof(max_align_t).
 
12:05 AM
omg this title
0
Q: Is const_cast safer than normal cast?

AashishWhich is safer to use? int main() { const int i=5; int *ptr; ptr=(int*)&i; <------------------- first ptr=const_cast<int*>(&i); <-------------------Second return 0; }

 
0
Q: link is getting truncated, any ideas why?

KennyI have been making some progress on this but still have some issues to resolve. Hopefully, this one won't be that hard. I have this: For Each item In Request.QueryString("doc").Split(","c) sb.Append("http://default.html?k=") sb.Append(item) sb.Append...

 
Is there no standard way to access whatever delete[] uses to determine how much memory was actually allocated? And if so, why not?
 
@chris That's another one of those questions I can only stare at with no idea how to tackle it.
 
Why the fuck did you think putting C# as a tag had any relevance? Stupid bitches gettin past my filters.
 
@Drise we tend to downvote things posted here actually
 
12:06 AM
@n2liquid No.
@n2liquid Because it's not needed, and that gives leeway to implementations.
 
@chris Answer "Yes.", answer "No.", count votes.
 
@Drise you seem stressed, go watch a tv show, eat some pizza.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hmm....
 
@MooingDuck I already ate a whole pizza. I was going to go play some DayZ actually.
 
@Drise ice cream?
 
12:08 AM
@MooingDuck You know? Good idea.
 
@Drise that hardly seems like a way to destress
 
@sehe Adding __declspec(align(16)) on the datatype does not help.
 
@kbok better post it at the Q
 
Will do
 
Did you check alignof(max_align_t)?
Because AFAIR, new is not required to align more than that.
 
12:09 AM
oh, awesome; I just broke something and found out some idiot used ini_set("display_errors", 0);
 
@Drise next time you edit a Q, fix the formatting so it works? :)
 
FUCK.
 
@sehe I just retagged it.
 
@n2liquid looks like php
@Drise yeah, that's what I was saying :)
 
@sehe looks like standard PHP practice, you mean?
 
12:10 AM
so, to TTS, our Java makes a SOAP call to the SOAP server, which makes an RPC call to a File Server, which makes some other bizarre serialized call to somewhere that I can't follow. Interesting.
 
@n2liquid Oh gawd, I don't know PHP but that looks like a horrible thing.
(A horrible thing to do, and a horrible thing to have in the language in the first place)
 
@n2liquid A. I'm not mean. B. It looks like php code
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I get a blank page and absolutely no idea what has gone wrong.
 
@sehe No I used the retag button, not the edit button. Idk.
 
@Drise Same difference. I get it, fyi
 
12:12 AM
@sehe Sorry. As @MooingDuck noted, I'm on edge.
 
> strange funky cast that can access private bases for some reason
lol
 
@sehe It is PHP code ):
 
This ice cream is delicious though.
 
24
A: What is the difference between static_cast<> and C style casting?

GlenC++ style casts are checked by the compiler. C style casts aren't and can fail at runtime also, c++ style casts can be searched for easily, whereas it's really hard to search for c style casts Another big benefit is that the 4 different C++ style casts express the intent of the programmer mor...

 
@n2liquid Those 3 letters shall not be written in that order in this chat room.
 
12:13 AM
's wrong.
 
@kbok Ok, I'll write it backwards from now on.
 
Well, gotta sleep. It's already 2am here.
 
@kbok Bye, bye!
 
@n2liquid Zing
 
@Mysticial if you're around, I have an additional question : stackoverflow.com/questions/11679741/…
 
12:18 AM
I just noticed that in the morning I promise myself "I'm going to bed early tonight", then it fades to "meh" and eventually becomes "I definitely won't go to bed early tonight" and a beautifully interpolated manner.
 
@n2liquid With me it's more like "I'm going to be early tonight. Meh, who am I kidding, I know I won't".
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Feels bad.. I wish I didn't have problems waking up )):
 
I'm trying to think of where inheritance is used in the standard library...the first thing I thought of was the iterator class and some type tags. What else can you guys think of?
 
@KeithLayne I think everything should inherit from Object ;)
 
std::universal_base_object
 
12:28 AM
@kbok I think I found the answer... Were you compiling in 64bit mode?
Meh. Everyone is asleep? Might just as well not answer things :)
 
@sehe you can answer me...
 
@KeithLayne Great. Answering
 
Do you feel better now? I know I do.
 
Lots
Heaps
Stacks
Oodles <-- needs standard library proposal
 
Deques?
 
12:36 AM
Note how precious few of those are actually storage containers. stack and deque are adaptors and heaps don't even have a storage implementation: you'll have to slap the algo's on top of your own storage...
 
Is there a question about where inheritance and OO fits into modern c++ design? I think that's what I'm getting at. I would even ask it on SO. As in, is it good if it makes sense or eases implementation? Or is it fine all the time as long as you avoid virtual functions? Or is this question nonsense?
 
^ it's an ad. But it has unicorns
 
That looks super bowl-ish.
 
@n2liquid What for?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes For awesomeness, what else?
So object-oriented.
 
12:44 AM
c'mon, genius. Answer my question. Yeah, I'm talking to you.
 
@sehe Bronies anyone?
 
Bronies? Brownies/Ponies?
 
My kids watch that show...I thought, "wow, it's not as gay as I would have thought." Then I stumble across the brony phenomenon on 4chan. Wow. (FTR I've never visited 4chan.)
 
@KeithLayne every technique has its place. if it makes the code easier to understand or maintain, i.e. more clear, then it's generally a good idea. exception: when something else is even better.
 
Alf, are you a politician?
 
12:47 AM
 
Drise, what's up with the binary tree question?
 
@KeithLayne Har har
 
you asked a question which appears to be the dupe of a billion others so you could answer it yourself?
 
Only in my early teens. I was a delegate to the national summit of the Labor Party youth in Norway at age 16, in 1979. Not much politics after that...
 
@KeithLayne you don't read many of his other comments, I reckon :)
 
12:48 AM
sorry for bad english
not sure that "national summit" is the right term, but you get the idea
 
@DeadMG Er. Some of them were incomplete, plus I had pretty pictures.
 
"Most"? Did you check all of them?
 
@DeadMG Some.
 
also, congratulations on repwhoring because you had "pretty pictures".
I'm sure that you could not, for example, simply answer one of the dupes with your answer.
 
@DeadMG Yea, I kinda did that. I just want my 2k. I also wanted to do one of those faq-like QA
 
... no comment
 
^ Politics. Of the kind that counts.
 
well
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf That is really interesting.
 
I downvoted you, twice, and flagged it for a moderator to delete
hopefully one will delete the question and erase some more rep
 
12:53 AM
... also no comment
 
> My sandbox of all the things:
@Drise I think you meant "soapbox" maybe?
 
@DeadMG Why would you do that? Or better, why would you tell me that? I worked really hard on that question/answer.
 
@KeithLayne No, sandbox. Or, well, I don't see the difference.
 
I would do that because you created a question for no purpose except to increase your rep, and decreased the quality of the site by lowering it's signal:noise ratio.
 
12:55 AM
@Drise ... duh. To teach you SO values. Or at least, those according to some others
 
you could have simply answered one of the 999999 BST questions with your answer.
 
Ell
hello.
 
reputation is supposed to measure something, and repwhoring isn't in that something.
 
@DeadMG Yea, and I wouldn't have gotten shit for it. It would have disapeared into the void.
 
@Drise Not my problem.
 
12:56 AM
Yes. The widdle puppy takes the moral high ground. Awesome.
 
It's ok. He's got a point. And he is frank about it. Let SO community moderation run it's course :)
@KeithLayne Sorry I completely missed this
 
Repwhoring is the backbone of this site. It's a big part of why the quality is so low.
 
True. But we don't need to _encourage_ the phenomenon
Not sure whether it helps to _fight_ it vocally either
 
Apparently, the word "genius" only plinks Alf :)
 
@DeadMG i downvoted the question, but no flagging. it's just a very uninteresting question, because any answer must be a rehash of wikipedia and documentation. as i see it.
 
12:58 AM
Hey @DeadMG! What's happening? You don't seem to be online as often as before.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Been spending too much time drooling at my chair watching the 99999 hours of Star Trek I acquired
 
@KeithLayne Sorry But I lost the context there. In what context did you know the place of inheritance in C++? ~)
21 mins ago, by Keith Layne
Is there a question about where inheritance and OO fits into modern c++ design? I think that's what I'm getting at. I would even ask it on SO. As in, is it good if it makes sense or eases implementation? Or is it fine all the time as long as you avoid virtual functions? Or is this question nonsense?
^ right now I'm thinking: the question doesn't make sense
 
should destroy my torrent client
I should be looking for work; applying for benefits; speaking to the other university
 
@sehe I would not want to encourage it. But that's a lot of what this site runs on, people who know something (often not the right thing) but see incentive to get rep, so whoring is basically built-in.
 
@DeadMG Or perhaps get limited bandwidth.
 
12:59 AM
instead I'm just staring at the screen all goddamn day
 
me too, welcome to the club :)
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf I put a lot of time and effort into writing the program and forming the question. And then editing all the pictures and such. I just feel that people I look up to are shitting on me right now.
 
@KeithLayne It fits if and only if some other technique won't solve your problem. Inheritance is a means of last resort.
 
@DeadMG Sounds bad. I only do this at nights. And never the tele.
 
@sehe Let me try to rephrase more sensibly.
@DeadMG can you see me now?
 
1:00 AM
@Drise It's not that extreme. You did something wrong, and I am correcting that wrong. Nothing more.
 
@DeadMG It kinda is that extreme. And I would also say you're being quite extreme about it too.
 
downvoting you removes only a fraction of the reputation you have acquired
 
@DeadMG oh god, thank god I watched all those a few years ago, so at least I can't waste my time on that anymore
 
even if a moderator erases the question, you will only lose the rep you have gained, and no more.
@TonyTheLion lols
 
@Drise The point is that most of that effort might have fit to another question? I haven't actually checked (mainly because my brain lapses into accute sleep at the sight of the words 'BST' or 'AVL'... )
 
1:02 AM
BST = Binary Search Tree. A binary tree optimized for binary search
 
@Drise You'd prefer it if he just downvoted and didn't call you out? I think it is courtesy of the puppy to tell you about things.
 
@sehe Not really. The one that was marked as duplicate was "What uses of a binary tree are there" which just listed a bunch of links to various implementations. Not why they are useful.
@sehe Idk. I'm on edge, as was determined earlier.
 
AVL = Adelson, Velskii and Landis (inventors) is a self balancing binary search tree
 
@Drise also reminds me of an important rule in education:
> As long as people care to tell you how they feel when you do stuff wrong, they see potential. take it as a compliment
People would just let it slide if things were different
 
> Lookup, insertion, and deletion all take O(log n) time in both the average and worst cases, where n is the number of nodes in the tree prior to the operation.
 
1:04 AM
@sehe Meh. I suppose.
 
@sehe There also is this. I could have simply not told you anything.
 
@sehe I'm thinking about library design. Specifically, a GUI library that doesn't suck. Everything popular that I can think of is based on virtual inheritance. It clearly works, it's been used for a long time. Can it be done better, and at least as usably, with a different design? Like a policy-based design, for example?
 
@Drise oh, sorry. it may be useful as a FAQ-like question. if there is a FAQ about the topic?
 
I have that Drise guy on my plonk list
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf I didn't find one.
@TonyTheLion I know. Thanks for reiterating that.
 
1:05 AM
@TonyTheLion I'm pretty quick to add people to mine, and I very rarely reconsider. But he's not on mine.
 
uhm, then i think, perhaps put it on a blog?
 
@DeadMG oh, I'm slow to add anyone, and only 1 person I added ever made it back to normal
 
@KeithLayne Huh. What problem are you solving policy based? I think GUI frameworks usually call for 'classic OO'. Mainly for the reason that it is less restrictive, (usually) has fewer compile-time dependencies and speed isn't the most important factor 99% of the time (convenience, OTOH, is)
 
Ell
Is there a way to see if I'm on anyone's plonk list?
 
I'm slow to add anyone, unless they manage to piss me of in the first five minutes of me talking to them
 
1:06 AM
@Ell Nope.
 
Oh, @Jerry's back. How's the little guy?
 
oh yea, me wonders too how the little guy is
 
@Jerry congrats!
 
@JerryCoffin I hope mom and baby are well?
 
I missed all the news. Again :)
 
1:07 AM
oh, check the star board
 
(Half-)hypocritically joining the chorus: congrats @JerryCoffin
 
8 hours ago, by Jerry Coffin
user image
there is the little guy :)
 
Not even that little. Very cute. Perhaps the camera angle is 'magnifying' it - or the little guy has big plans :)
3
 
Ell
assesses
 
@sehe I'm just throwing stuff out there. I think I could imagine somehow a policy-based design for a GUI framework, but it seems at first glance to be contrived.
 
Ell
1:08 AM
*awwwwwww
 
I don't find newborns cute.
 
you're a robot
I think they're cute
 
Ell
how can you not?
 
I don't find them cute either.
 
Ell
is that an actual photo?
 
1:10 AM
Now you write a super-awesome, easily extensible GUI editor that generates really efficient C++11, non-OO code. Convenience and performance in one black box. For the times it really counts.
 
he's a robot, probably doesn't have cuteness algorithm
 
Ell
I mean of the actual baby
 
Nah, it's shopped.
 
@KeithLayne I think my Nr. 1 issue with GUI frameworks is: they easily get in the way. Adding non-virtual polymorphism to the mix seems to me to add to the burden
 
No, he made it in Photoshop and decided to say it was his son.
 
1:10 AM
@Ell An artist painted it
@user1515422 Blender ;)
 
@KeithLayne basic gui framework for windows: [ideone.com/PcMJT]. note the use of virtual function
 
Ell
well I don't think it would be unusual for him to not put pictures up, my dad is funny about the internet and pictures. once its up it stays up
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf did you just crank that out?
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf If that's selfcontained, that is pretty sweet. Do you agree on the 'classic OO is a good (enough) fit' stance?
@KeithLayne I think Alf is the un-crowned king of Win32 API in all of and likely quite a bit beyond
 
yeah, I know literally nothing about it, and he always blows my mind.
 
1:12 AM
Actually, I just picked a baby in the nursery and took a picture. Given my art skills, if I tried to do one up in Ps, it wouldn't even look human. Oh, yes, they both seem to be doing quite well though. Thanks for all the kind words (even the half-hypocritical ones!) :-)
 
@KeithLayne about an hour ago. ;-)
 
@JerryCoffin looks like he has some hair too! Mine came out bald (like me) :)
 
Ell
@jerrycoffin congratulations, he is cute :)
 
@KeithLayne Yup -- a little. His older brother had more though.
 
@KeithLayne I don't really care about the inheritance. What I expect of a GUI library that doesn't suck are other things. I don't want to design the interface with a programming language: it's not a program, it's a fancy document; give me a markup language (can it not be XML?). And I want a nice way to handle events, especially the most complex ones, like drag-and-drop.
 
1:13 AM
@Ell Thank you.
 
Well, my second one came out with a Mr. T haircut. Too bad it filled in.
 
Uhoh
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes so the black box is acceptable, as long as you can do what yo u want easily?
 
@KeithLayne I pity the fool (who let that happen)!
 
(And you're not forking c++ like QT)
 
1:15 AM
@KeithLayne Yes.
 
Ell
I just want it to use modern c++ stuff and use the std lib instead of reinventing everything like wxstring etc.
 
Oh, that's a given. gist.io/3176551
 
an library
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes @DeadMG does my answer make any sense? Should I be deleting it?
 
Wow. Trying to search for that photo shopped image with the catch phrase I made when he was a baby just crashed windows. Hooray for mobile.
 
1:18 AM
@Ell ooh, i just reinvented String. or coded again with more modern code "Alf's StringValue" from SourceForge. The nice thing is that returning a literal from a function, as a String, is constant time and no dynamic allocation. And passing such strings around involves no copying. Unlike std::basic_string.
 
That's incorrect.
 
@sehe No, and yes. I considered downvoting it.
 
@KeithLayne TRWTF is windows mobile
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Oh, kewl. Can you linky it?
 
@DeadMG Ok. I must admit I was uninformed and just generally trying to be helpful (and seeing whether my VM would still run :))
Deleting done
 
1:20 AM
Terrifyingly dark out. Oh, wait, it's night.
 
Ell
how do you not copy if there is no dynamic allocation?
 
@Ell They share it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I haven't added functionality yet, only so I can pass window caption argument! But OK: ideone.com/4Z4Vo
 
Ell
but it has automatic storage duration?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Adequate.
 
1:23 AM
@Ell works like a string in Java or C#: any apparent string variable just contains a reference to the (ordinarily immutable) string value.
of course a pointer is copied. maybe a count also (i haven't added that yet). but the string data isn't copied.
 
I thought this would prevent the ability for the class to be called with the default constructor. But it appears to allow it.

class Labels
{

private:
	Labels(){}
public:
    Labels( unsigned int );
    ~Labels();
};
 
Why do I get German ads for PlayStation Plus on YouTube?
 
    template< class Arg >
    String( Arg&& arg )
        : detail::String_Data( arg )
    {}
 
I want to forbid this: Labels l();
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf what is this one for?
 
1:26 AM
I mean, sure, I'm a PS3 owner, but why in German?
 
Ell
sorry when you said no dynamic allocation I read that as living on the stack
 
@Chimera If you declare any other constructor, it is automatically forbidden.
 
Ell
also is this the fruit if the err discussion we had before about shared_ptr?
 
it supports overload resoluytion: makes the array argument constructor kick in for a string literal as argument. because with this, both are templates.
i should add a comment. yes.
:-)
 
@Chimera MVP.
 
1:27 AM
@Chimera it does forbid it
@Chimera that's a function declaration, not a object.
 
With that class definition the compiler merrily accepts the following:

Labels lable_1(); // should not compile - but does
Labels lable_2(14); // is what I want and works
 
20 secs ago, by Mooing Duck
@Chimera that's a function declaration, not a object.
:(
 
@Chimera google "most vexing parse"
 
@DeadMG i prefer to call it "MPP" (most perverse parse), because then can't be confused with "Most Vexed Professional"
2
 
1:28 AM
Try Labels lable_1; and you'll see it doesn't compile.
 
5 s for a branch mispredict?? Really?
 
@TonyTheLion 5 n s.
 
@Chimera But funnily enough, if you actually use lable_1, the compiler will throw an error.
 
> Lets multiply all these durations by a billion:
 
oh I see
misread
still interesting read, those numbers
 
1:30 AM
Oh ok... so I'm not using lable_1 thus no error... weird.
 
meh, seems my Reddit Enhancement Suite doesn't give me endless Reddit no more, now my life has no more meaning :(
 
@TonyTheLion I always though branch prediction would be a hair slower
 
What is this type of constructor called?
Labels::Labels(const Labels&)
 
Copy constructor.
 
ok thanks... need to forbid it as well
 
1:35 AM
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Well, I'd appreciate if you kept me updated on your progress :) I'd like to have something similar in my Unicode library, and I'd be interested in stealing checking out your design.
 
@Chimera Btw, when you make it private to forbid it, don't put a body. That way, even if you accidentally used it from inside the class, you get a linker error.
 
but such updates would be much like second half of "flowers for algernon", i'm afraid
i'm not getting better physically
 
Oh that's sad.
 
and it's sort of difficult to think when the body elects to hurt me; as i evaluate myself i'm down to half or quarter speed for grunt work such as web publishing (i did that now for a festival)
 
1:39 AM
Connection to some Google services are degraded here where I live from multiple ISP's
could this be a global issue? highly unlikely, right?
 
Time to sleep.
Good night.
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Did you ever mention what you are suffering from? Would you mind telling (it's ok if you won't)?
 
29
Q: Most vexing parse: why doesn't A a(()); work?

GRBAmong the many things Stack Overflow has taught me is what is known as the "most vexing parse", which is classically demonstrated with a line such as A a(B()); //declares a function While this, for most, intuitively appears to be the declaration of an object a of type A, taking a temporary B o...

 
@R.MartinhoFernandes NOP well, robot
 
> If your library has types with bogus values, I will hate you.
what is a type with a bogus value?
 
1:40 AM
@DeadMG UnicodeString.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes g'night
 
@MooingDuck Dat gravatar...
 
what's bogus value about it?
 
It can be made invalid. For... I really can't think of a use for it.
 
oh yeah, that bullshit
realized as soon as you sent the link, didn't even click it
 
1:42 AM
@sehe it's a combination of things: diabetes and a "third stage" infection of glands, about 10-12 year now. i'm getting a series of surgery in the months ahead. meanwhile, taking pills for everything.
 
It's like a reversed init() function.
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf damn. intrusive that
 
oh, you forgot somethin
error codes & exceptions
 
You construct a string, then call setToBogus() on it, and voilà! You've got an unusable object!
 
Useful
 
1:43 AM
@sehe I wish I was joking.
@DeadMG Hm, yeah.
 
You wish you were NOPping
 
And that too.
Dammit.
 
^ who knew. That brilliant (children's) book has been translated. We just finished it today. I must admit I so enjoyed reading that to the kids. Delicious language and humor
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ok..
 
2
A: vector of __mm128 won't push_back()

Daniel Trebbienstd::vector<__m128> does not make any sense. The __m128 "type" is really just a placeholder for an XMM register.

This answer is completee non-sense, but I'll spare him the downvote.
__m128 is the same as any other POD datatype.
 
1:49 AM
@Mysticial Mmm. Does my compiler hint make any sense?
 
@sehe If it does work, I'm not sure if I'd count on it. It ultimate boils down to whether new char will align to 16 bytes.
I've never tried putting SSE/AVX types into STL containers so I don't actually have an answer to this question.
 
Why new char (did I miss something in the question?)
 
@sehe Or whatever the default allocation mechanism is in vector.
 
operator new
 
@Mysticial Oh. Of course. Silly me
 
1:51 AM
I believe new char is guaranteed to aligned to at least all the POD types.
 
To max_align_t.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Rather, std::allocator<__m128>::.... I guess
 
@Mysticial That does not include SSE types.
it's my knowledge that the standard new for MSVC aligns to 4 or 8 bytes, no more.
 
@DeadMG SSE isn't part of the standard, so it's exempt. But otherwise, SSE types behave just like any other POD type.
 
very true
 
1:54 AM
@Mysticial It's what the standard calls a type with extended alignment.
 
Isn't vector required to the type it holds? It seems like it should
 
new only aligns for fundamental alignments.
 
Some compilers define them as unions with arrays (MSVC), others just keep it as a black box (GCC). But you can always assign them and pass them around by value, make arrays of them. etc...
 
@MooingDuck It uses whatever memory is given by the allocator directly.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes One last (yeah right) question then...how would you want to tie in your custom code stuffs with what comes out of the black box?
 
1:57 AM
Can you be a bit more vague?
 
I'm guessing you wouldn't be a fan of yacc for guis.
 
Oh gosh. WTF. What?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, but I'll have to try pretty hard
 
You can tell that the designers of the SSE intrinsics never really meant the datatype to be used for anything other than raw-pointers.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes then the default allocator should be able to handle that
 
1:59 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes your gui description file (non-XML, yeah) could have c++ interspersed with klingon, just like Yacc! Sounds fun.
 

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