Conversation started Feb 20, 2013 at 15:35.
Feb 20, 2013 15:35
@thecoshman what would the correct phrasing be
> The real problem is that the world is full of shit and as much as we try to change that, it will never go away.
@Cicada Change "none" to "neither"
lots of stars coming out of this convo
I'm glad some people have such a positive view of things :P
@casperOne Is it in the front, with StackOverflow.com being the one in the back?
Feb 20, 2013 15:36
@LightnessRacesinOrbit clearly not enough on my posts if you ask me
@TonyTheLion Old age ;)
@Cicada I didn't. Does that mean there are enough now?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol
@Potatoswatter Backroom implies limited access. Meta isn't limited access. =)
@casperOne Yes, I remember that. Based on the result, it was a bad decision and even its current (partial) implementation has been harmful to the site.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit clearly not enough on my posts
Feb 20, 2013 15:36
@Potatoswatter But one man will see the ass on the front, and another on the back =P
@JerryCoffin How so? (asking to elicit feedback, not contest)
Anyway, I think the problem with the FAQ (or with deleting it) is that it's a symptom. It exists because SO lacks the necessary capabilities to share and reuse content. The only thing we can do is marking the best ones so we're easily able to find them again. Deleting the FAQ won't make that problem go away, it'll just remove the band-aid people had put on it to make it less painful to work around
Hello!
I have a question about a sort of meta-issue that involves C++
And SO
So if you want to remove the FAQ, it would have to be by first adding replacement features
4
Feb 20, 2013 15:37
@speeder haha, meta-issue. :giggles:
I asked on SO a question about why the specs say something specific. The question got upvoted AND closed.
and I'm saying this as someone who doesn't really like the FAQ and never refers anyone to it. :)
@speeder link please
Want me to field this one? heh
I asked on meta why lots of similar questions are not closed, while others are. Seemly it is because all of them should not exist, but C++ people defend those questions...
Feb 20, 2013 15:38
@jalf Basically sums it up for me, but only because we will always unavoidably need a place to stash this authoritative reference material, even when in an ideal world that would not be true
2
Q: Why C++ specs say that int and short are both at least 16 bits?

speederI am reading The C++ Programming Language Special Edition. It states that C++ types derive from char, that has to be at least 8 bits (anyone know a computer with char bigger than 8 bits, by the way?) Also, it states that both short, and int, must have at least 16 bits. Why not, 8 for short and...

Honestly I think removing that tag will cause a lot of high rep regulars to consider stop answering question at all, because now it becomes so much harder to find a good dupe to close dupe questions by.
@casperOne thanks
Whoa, casperOne is fast
> nyone know a computer with char bigger than 8 bits, by the way?
Yup
Feb 20, 2013 15:39
@jalf I don't disagree with you here. By that statement, can I take it to mean that you don't feel the current feature set would replace what you're gaining from the tag?
user1182183
hm who knows a bit DirectX here? ; o
I am wondering, what to do with that tag.
I mean, it is against what SO currently stands for. But I like that tag.
Hey, is an excellent example. Such questions are usually not related to some localised "practical problem that you face", which is really a problem more with that wording. Because these questions are the créme - the abstract, but specific and concrete questions about the languages that we use. I see a lot of silly downvotes in that tag, and if anyone threatens to remove that then I'll get passionate!
@speeder r u srs
I would find lots of use in that tag, but yet this would also attract lots of flak from common SO people.
Feb 20, 2013 15:40
@casperOne First and foremost, the reaction now seems to be primarily to close (and often delete) instead of trying to fix them and provide an appropriate answer. Second, now instead of a tag that make the status clear, I constantly (at least a couple times a day) see "and no, this really isn't homework, so you really can answer" kinds of noise in questions.
@casperOne See this is one of SO's problems, they want to delete around ever corner, but never consider adding features that would make up for problems being worked out by other means.
@casperOne the homework tag served a purpose in that it helped everyone know how to answer. In particular, "don't post complete solutions and ready-to-use code, but instead emphasize explanations and help the OP learn/understand". Now, homework questions usually just get ready-to-use solutions which don't really teach anything (and now there's added noise of verbally trying to establish if a question is homework or not, as Jerry mentioned)
suggestions for features keep getting declined
Yeah but that's a broader problem
Focus on please
@JerryCoffin So, regarding close reasons, questions can be reopened after they've been fixed. This is something a lot of people, especially newcomers, don't understand, or forget.
Feb 20, 2013 15:41
@speeder The problem is not that it's a language-lawyer question; it's that it's a "why didn't they do it like this" question
@casperOne Closed questions tend to die out
@casperOne I see nothing in the current feature set that even partially offsets the need for the FAQ, no. There is no facility for collecting information that the community agrees is (1) correct, and (2) frequently needed and referenced.
@JerryCoffin I haven't seen that in C++ questions much tbh.
@TonyTheLion The disconnect here is that I can only delete, close. I can't code for the core engine of the site. I can only make feature requests to devs on meta, like you. Occasionally, I get to drink beer or eat with them, and there's a real chance there to effect change, but the list is so long.
Lightness Races there are other questions in the same style (like: why you can put a final comma inside a {} initialization?) and they are not closed.
Feb 20, 2013 15:42
I'm telling you all. The problem is that there are too many people in the world. We can never solve this problem to the satisfaction of all groups. Ever. Let's just get drunk
But according to some SO people, they should be, actually most language-laywer questions should be.
It's subjective
26
Q: Is [language-lawyer] really an effective characterization, or a borderline meta-tag?

Robert Harveylanguage-lawyer For questions about the intricacies of formal or authoritative specifications of programming languages and environments. Typical questions concern gaps between "what will usually work in practice" and "what the spec actually guarantees", but problems with understanding...

Like everything human
@speeder That is a completely different sort of question, though. It's concrete. It's asking a question about stuff in a language, not stuff about why a language
Feb 20, 2013 15:42
@casperOne Yes, they can be, but the reality is that it's inordinately difficult in practice.
@casperOne I wasn't trying to attack you or anything, I was merely stating a problem I've noticed, and which has been talked about on several occasions. I realize you're not empowered necessarily to effect change more immediately than me or anyone else in this room.
@jalf That was another problem, it made the answers vague. If a professional with the same issue came along, they wouldn't get a definitive answer, just vagueness.
laalalalalala we're just slipping on different and different topics
Now I wonder if I should ask more questions about C++ itself, or not.
Feb 20, 2013 15:44
@JerryCoffin I don't disagree, FWIW, I, as a moderator wish that more people took part in this cycle. I think a softening of the close reasons would help and give people reason to invest in trying to salvage their question.
Because it is clear that unless I have a pratical issue to solve, people will be against it
@casperOne but surely another version of the question would exist without the homework tag (or he would create it, and then it would exist for the next guy who came looking), and that would have a non-vague answer
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Not specifically in C++, no.
Bon ça me saoûle un peu ce dialogue de sourds quand même
@everyone : Just wanted to say thanks for everything. I finally finished it all.
Feb 20, 2013 15:44
@TonyTheLion I didn't take it as such, but thank you, that's considerate =) Just trying to point out, I wish I could make core changes to the system. As much as you might not believe it, I do wish that I could make technical changes to the system to address some of these things, and we could optimize the aspects of the site that are meant for very specific things.
@GamesBrainiac Great!
@LightnessRacesinOrbit : Thank you so much. Also potato
I can't explain how good it feels like when your program runs and does what you want it to do
I'm sure you've this feeling thousands of times
-2
Q: Could a significant reputation requirement for asking questions be ethical and/or practical here?

Lightness Races in OrbitI imagine that this will be highly controversial but, well, we're here to ask and discuss, right?! In the tags that I frequent, namely c++/php/javascript on SO, it feels to me like we have reached a kind of saturation point, in that the vast majority of new questions daily are either duplicates ...

@jalf Possibly, but then what happens, how do you handle the dupe? How does the guy find the dupe? If it's not closed as a dupe, you've failed the professional. If you've closed it as a dupe, you've done the homework for the kid.
Anyone ever tried proposing a C and C++ site on Area51?
Feb 20, 2013 15:45
^ that is your answer, @casperOne!
@casperOne I don't think the problem is the close reasons in particular, rather that closed questions drop off everyone's radar. Who's going to vote to reopen a question they don't see? SO aggressively hides questions with no activity (and closed questions tend to have no activity for good reason) :)
Stop the flood.
@speeder too late, really. we'd just be migrating questions all bloody day long
@BartekBanachewicz : Thanks for cppreference. This site actually works! :D
@speeder That probably wouldn't fly. I'd expect someone from SE to close it. You can always try though. Normally, Mathematica and other sites like that succeed because there's an application aspect to them.
Why someone from SE would close it?
Feb 20, 2013 15:47
@casperOne To get very far, you need to motivate others than the OP to do the editing.
@jalf We have queues for reopening. If an edit is done on a post that is closed, then it goes into the reopen queue for people to vote to reopen it. And I believe you can filter on tag as well, I'm not sure on the latter part.
@jalf Again, the problem here (much like Twitter), is that there are far too many questions. Everything just gets hidden by everything else. There's no solution to that except mass-deleting everything that's (a) low-voted, (b) closed and (c) subjectively full of utter shite despite ridiculous pity upvotes by rep-whores
@casperOne the professional would be more than capable of coping with two answers existing for his question. And the kid with the homework would be no worse off than he is with the removal of the tag. But again, if that is a concern, then perhaps a more robust replacement feature is needed. :)
And then remove question-asking powers from anyone with less than 500 rep
@casperOne and who sees that queue? :)
Feb 20, 2013 15:47
I seem to be getting more and more radical as this discussion continues
Only the few people who actively looks for it. Who goes "hmm, I wonder if there are any closed questions whose closure I disagree with"
@jalf I think it's something like 3K rep needed.
jalf's right - there's zero incentive to bother seeking out that queue
who the hell wants to choose to look at questions that lots of other people decided was rubbish
also, who edits closed questions?
@casperOne To be able to see it, sure. To actively see it, you need to hunt it down and remember to check it regularly
@jalf As far as I can tell, mostly people working on the attached badges, who do a lot of clicking, but pay little or no attention to what they're looking at.
user142019
Feb 20, 2013 15:48
Oh the joy of debugging applications that make heavy use of async.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's a clique perspective, IMO. I get it, you guys, for lack of a better term, are very anti-governance on SO. That's fine. There's no requirement that you have to take part in it, but it's there if you want. If you don't though, that's cool too. But sometimes, the tools are there.
@Zoidberg Wait. You think you can talk about actual programming here? Whatever gave you that idea? :-)
my point is that the deck is stacked against reopening. everyone sees open questions, just by going to the main index page. But only a tiny minority, those who intentionally decide "I am going to try to clean up a bit of the site today" see the queue of "things that should perhaps be reopened"
how I create a proposal on area51???
@JerryCoffin We have had problems with that, very bad problems.
Feb 20, 2013 15:49
it seemly only lists proposals, no button to create a new one
user142019
@speeder click the create button.
there are no create button
@casperOne I think you misunderstand. That has nothing to do with us or with cliques or with meta being evil
@jalf Sometimes, the tiny minority feels like the subset of the 15 SO mods. Imagine how we feel =P
it's just teh simple fact that the vast majority of users are here to look at questions, and if a question has no activity, it gets taken off the one list that people look at
user142019
Feb 20, 2013 15:50
@speeder Select category in the sidebar and scroll down.
@jalf I kind of get it, I think. We don't promote closed questions enough. Problem with putting them on the front page is the high rate at which google goes through that.
user142019
Fuck this shit.
So even if you (hypothetically) changed the close reasons to "hey, this was closed by mistake, please reopen!", it wouldn't change much
user142019
Stupid debugger from hell.
SO suffers from being indexed so fucking much, that they have to take steps to make sure that bad stuff doesn't get indexed.
Feb 20, 2013 15:51
@Zoidberg What are you whining about again
because most people don't see the close message
@casperOne lol usrs /cc @Wikipedia
user142019
@Cicada debugger doesn't break where I want it to break because of async. :v
@Zoidberg next project?
user142019
lolyes
Feb 20, 2013 15:52
lol
@casperOne yeah, I know. I'm not saying closed questions should be displayed prominently on the front page either. I don't know what the right solution is, I'm just pointing out that as it is, people generally don't see closed questions, so it doesn't matter how people feel about reopening them
user142019
Wait I know.
@casperOne I'm not anti-governance at all. If I understand the meaning correctly
user142019
I'll set a breakpoint instead of breaking manually!
by the way, I'm not actually suggesting you change the close messages like that. Just for the record. :)
Feb 20, 2013 15:52
@Zoidberg ehh, you were breaking manually?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I know you're not, but generally, those in this chat room are. Like I said, for lack of a better term, and I'm generalizing.
I'm just pointing out that, if people don't go to the reopen queue, then the practical outcome is that there is a problem with closed questions not getting reopened. Sure, that's only our own fault for not choosing to go to the reopen queue. But ... we still don't!
user142019
@Cicada yes you know pressing the pause button.
@Zoidberg that is retarded
And there's no incentive to so, on the wider scale, you haven't really solved anything by providing that tool
Feb 20, 2013 15:53
@jalf Well, we changed the duplicate close. There might be other ones coming down the line, I can't (because I don't know) say.
@casperOne IMO, a lot more "salt" is needed -- IIRC, I've only seen two of the test messages there, and one of those was (IMO) a poor test. I clicked "improve" when it thought I should "reject", even though (at least IMO) the un-edited question was open to pretty obvious improvement.
@casperOne just don't change them to the one I outlined above.... ;)
@Zoidberg You boggle my mind. Regularly.
user142019
Also why is this member null I clearly set it.
I'm plonking you all because you are polluting the room. Please tell me when this oh-so-constructive-discussion is over.
Feb 20, 2013 15:54
@JerryCoffin Define "salt", I come from the fighting game community, and salty means really fucking pissed. =)
user142019
Oh I didn't.
@casperOne The test questions -- I.e., the ones for which the "correct" answer is already known, so you're checking that the reviewer is really reviewing, not just clicking.
What we need is for the /faq to be way clearer on what "too localised" means. We need the wider community to be way better at closing debugging questions, immediately. And we need a set of canonical questions/answers that will inherently be dupe-targets for almost every remaining new question. We need a way to find those questions to make dupe-closing efficient and fun to do. But.... then all you've done is created a wiki.
And there are anyway too many questions. Too many people. Impossible. Let's get drunk
6
Isn't there some sort of codepad for crappy code?
@EtiennedeMartel pastebin? oh, I thought you said "some sort of codepad run by crappy code"
Feb 20, 2013 15:55
Like a place where people dump the shit they encounter on a daily basis?
@casperOne I'm not sure if that's word I'd use. I'm all for the removal of harmful content and spam. I think the distinction is more that "you" (plural, generalizing) want to delete everything that doesn't have a clear positive value. "We" want to only delete things that have a clear negative value. I'm not sure that's "anti-governance"
2
@LightnessRacesinOrbit No, I meant, where the crap is intentional.
@EtiennedeMartel Just open one of your projects
@EtiennedeMartel thedailywtf?
user142019
Daily WTF?
Feb 20, 2013 15:56
@Cicada probably along the lines of 'neither my parents were born back then'
@EtiennedeMartel thedailywtf.com? :)
@JerryCoffin Ahh. Yes, we have some conditions around moderator actions to flags that help prime the system. See meta.stackoverflow.com/q/160754/140951 for why we're being so strict on some flags now.
@jalf Yes, but without the explanation and the weird editorial line.
@EtiennedeMartel also, Zoidberg's PC
I mean, just crap code snippets.
Feb 20, 2013 15:56
@EtiennedeMartel bash.org
I remember seeing stuff like that.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's for IRC logs.
@jalf Fair enough. And I see the disconnect there between the two sides (negative vs positive)
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel Stack Overflow?
Feb 20, 2013 15:56
yes I know. I have no memory of what you speak of
Well, if there's none, there should be.
Incidentally, codesuppository.com is for sale.
which isn't to say we particularly want to keep worthless content around, just that we'd rather err on the conservative side. If in doubt, keep it as long as it does no harm
user142019
Vapourware.
You post snippets and people vote for how crappy it is.
Feb 20, 2013 15:58
area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/51543/c-and-c <<< my proposal of where we should go with c++-faq and language-lawyer
:)
@EtiennedeMartel not any more
> A suppository is a drug delivery system that is inserted into the rectum (rectal suppository), vagina (vaginal suppository) or urethra (urethral suppository)
hmm. what have I done?
ugh, it just shouldn't be possible to trigger NVidia GPU driver bugs from a web page...
@Cicada : This was really funny : stackoverflow.com/questions/6926433/…
How do you shuffle? You just shuffle
@EtiennedeMartel The @Cat would cherish that :P
user142019
@LightnessRacesinOrbit urethra ಠ_ಠ
Feb 20, 2013 16:00
it would need a "this is terrible" button that you can click forever
@EtiennedeMartel I'm up for it
the name sorta fits, too
@TonyTheLion he would soon get tired
To sum it all up:
1) We're not actually removing the `faq` tags yet, this conversation was strictly to see how it might impact you.
2) Removing it would impact searchability for finding questions quickly, for reference or for closing questions
3) You feel the removal of the tag would be detrimental because there is a dearth of authoritative sources which you feel that this tag can help identify for the C++ community at large.
4) The existence of the tag is slightly detrimental because you'll close new questions against those reference questions which doesn't do enough to actually *help* the
@EtiennedeMartel: Need lunch then.. design time :D
Did I miss anything in relation to the faq tags?
Feb 20, 2013 16:01
@casperOne Yeah, I agree. With the small adjustment that I don't think "help the user" is as narrow as you do. Sometimes the "teach a man to fish" approach is way more helpful. Even if the OP doesn't realise it.
5) (i.e. There's no overwhelming outcry against the possibility of categorising c++-faq questions in some other (non-meta-tag) way, if such technology existed on SO (which it presently does not)).
@casperOne In #3, "it is detrimental" refers to the FAQ, right? And not the deletion of it?
@jalf Yes, to the existence of the tag, not the deletion of it.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Just added #4, but yes.
I thought 3) meant "you feel that tag deletion would be detrimental because[..]"
@casperOne Oh, missed that. Yeah.
@casperOne I'd say (for me) is most useful to be able to find those top answers quickly.
@sehe and the reason you need to find them quickly is when answering/closing-as-dupes new questions, correct?
Feb 20, 2013 16:05
@sehe I find that the best answers are not on questions.
@sehe Updated #2
blargh, I switched to D2D1.1 / updated DirectWrite, so now it can interop with D3D11 directly, no keyedmutex crap...but I still get exactly the same behavior. now it fails completely silently though...
y'know, I don't remember the last time I closed any question as a dupe of a faq question
I just link to them
@melak47 OpenGL please and thank you
@GamesBrainiac What? That's how she beat my rep count?
@EtiennedeMartel : lol...poor you
Feb 20, 2013 16:07
@jalf that. but i'll also reference them for background information in more tailored answers.
perhaps a simple (partial) solution would be to introduce special handling of "*-faq" tags. A question can only be marked FAQ if it has been linked to from other questions at least N times (or if others have been closed as dupes of it). So if I wanted to create a crappy [r-faq] question, I couldn't, until the question had "proven its worth"
@LightnessRacesinOrbit true. Yet, the faq items would otherwise be very hard to distinguish, precisely because of the F in FAQ: they're asked requently, so there are many 'so-so' contending answers.
that still doesn't solve my problems with the FAQ, but it would solve yours, of getting rid of the bad-quality knock-offs
@sehe I think is a misnomer. Pretty much none of those questions are "asked frequently". might make more sense. And then we're back to "why is this a tag? and actually why is it even on SO?"
and then we're back to "let's expand the tag wiki system"
Did anyone mention we monitor the use / abuse of by @feeds subscription in the lounge?
Feb 20, 2013 16:09
@jalf oooh and make the BG colour maroon!
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'm not into any politics here. I just said how I use the tag, and how it benefits me most. Someone else can redraw the future if that is really necessary
@sehe *shrug* Whatevs. Just saying.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Same here
directed at you only because of the reply-y nature
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yeah, that's clarified - no problem
Feb 20, 2013 16:10
@sehe yeah, and once again I'd love to see the latter case catered for more. Make it easier for me to custom-tailor an answer to a question which has "sort-of" been asked before, or or where a "frequently answered answer" should be part of the full answer, but wouldn't be able to stand alone
why doesn't English have an adjectival adjunct for "reply"?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit 'return'?
1
C and C++

Proposed Q&A site for all C and C++ coders, that want to ask questions about C and C++ in general, including questions currently not welcome on Stack Overflow (like questions on SO tags language-lawyer and C++-faq)

Currently in definition.

@speeder that is the worst idea ever
Feb 20, 2013 16:11
@LightnessRacesinOrbit 'return'? (return mail, return statement etc.)
@speeder I don't like this.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit What I thought of when reading that sentence: seven of nine-tertiary adjunct of unimatrix zero-one, grid 9-2 of subjunction 12
just because of adjunct -.-;
@speeder Note that your proposal would not permit the last part (stuff not allowed on SO); those guidelines (not constructive, listy, language lawyer) are pretty much network-wide. Also, you'd instantly become a dumping ground for an extreme amount of crap.
Fucking trekkies.
i love you too
Feb 20, 2013 16:13
@casperOne programmers.SE covers a lot of language lawyery, doesn't it?
@speeder Well, I don't understand it. I don't recall ever seeing you here, in the C++ sub community of Stack Overflow. How come you jump to an initiative unilaterally, then drop it here to see if we're interested?
@sehe lame
@Borgleader :)
@speeder Is < faster than <=? is it really question ?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Hey, that's not me. Blame English
Feb 20, 2013 16:13
@TonyTheLion I'm really skeptical about that video. Looks to me like "hey heres what were planning to do" rather than "heres how it actually works"
@NullPointer It's even a frequent one. Sadly
NullPointer it is the fourth or fifth most voted C++ question on SO
@jalf I don't believe it's in their scope. They've battened down the hatches because they were the dumping grounds for listy shit on SO and that quickly spiralled out of control. They are no longer on the migration list for users. Only mods can migrate.
@sehe hardly unilaterally. Area 51 supports discussions and is completely predicated on democracy
@sehe Oh I do
> We’re looking for bold, creative individuals who want to join us and be a part of shaping the future of Glass.
Standard marketing bullshit.
Feb 20, 2013 16:14
Have you guys seen this?
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: A roomful of happy skeptics huddling to create a good place on the interwebs [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [no-helpdesk]
@sehe I in the last year or so was using Lua, anyway I switched back to C++, asked a question, got bashed, and when I asked on Meta, someone pointed me a old discussion about language-laywer tag, where C and C++ folks wanted to keep it, while everyone else wanted to delete it.
@EtiennedeMartel more like "blowing the future of Glass" amirite?
If this was able to be filtered on a tag, would that help with the searchability issue?
@casperOne No; where did that come from?!
@casperOne I'd love to see that for specific tags.
Feb 20, 2013 16:15
@LightnessRacesinOrbit We've had that for a while.
On it, people explained WHY the C++ subcommunity of SO tend accumulate questions that should be closed... So I thought it was appropraite instead to have a C and C++ separate site.
Question is, if it was filterable by tag, would that help with the FAQ tag issue.
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, my lawyer says we probably can't sue, but we can claim a part of the revenue generated
> Using Google+ or Twitter
Why not Facebook, hmmm?
Feb 20, 2013 16:15
@casperOne where's the link on the UI?
@sehe LOL
@speeder Appropriate perhaps. Feasible? Nah.
@speeder Nice story. However, in no way does it address my question.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit There is none, I had to ask three people for it. There was a blog post I think somewhere.
@sehe what is your question?
Feb 20, 2013 16:16
@casperOne Speechless
3 mins ago, by sehe
@speeder Well, I don't understand it. I don't recall ever seeing you here, in the C++ sub community of Stack Overflow. How come you jump to an initiative unilaterally, then drop it here to see if we're interested?
@casperOne I don't think so: the problem is still that the FAQ questions are "curated", they're on the list because the "expert" community on SO explicitly gave them the thumbs up, as something of high quality that is useful as a reference. That is not necessarily the same as "all C++ questions which have a million billion views"
"scroll up?" is a bad question and you should feel bad
@jalf Fair enough.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Haha. Slow poke
Feb 20, 2013 16:17
Ok, I'm out. Thank you for the feedback. Also for the low (non existence) amount of Hitlers thrown about.
@jalf the concern there then becomes "who are you to decide what is good and what is not". but the answer, frankly, is us. it just is. I know that goes against, like, things. but it is true.
@casperOne Only one, I think.
@casperOne Oh! You went there! Bloody delete Nazi.
@EtiennedeMartel The one on the starboard?
@EtiennedeMartel Off-by-one-error.
Feb 20, 2013 16:18
@casperOne but something like that list could be made, and built into the site, instead of relying on a tag. A "FAQ" list (or "curated questions", or heck, even "community wiki") could be built-in like that, and users (with lots of rep in a relevant tag) could vote to FAQ-ify, just like they can vote to close today...
@casperOne Sorry about that. See topic change. It won't happen again.
@casperOne But she's a notorious troll, so it was to be expected.
@jalf I dunno about vote to FAQ. people upvote all kinds of bullshit
@casperOne Thanks for asking us.
Just to let you know, there's no immediate plans to do anything about the faq tags. So don't think that there's an impending date where they'll just disappear. You'll hear about it if we considered taking any action against them. We might make a meta post and get rid of the other ones, but mention the specific reasons the C++ one exists but it's not a good reason for "android-faq" to exist.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Weigh the votes by rep|activity
Feb 20, 2013 16:19
I feel that this was very constructive, even if nothing really new was said
@jalf I'll try to talk to some of the core Q&A people, or put a meta post together.
@sehe And neither are inherently a good indicator of expertise
The problem I suppose is that.. well, nothing is.
@sehe I didn't even realize the topic, I was just being funny. I've not always been welcome in this room (I might not even be now), but at least there aren't torches and pitchforks now!
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Better than weighing the reddit flock equally
@casperOne Oh, nobody is welcome in this room.
Feb 20, 2013 16:21
@LightnessRacesinOrbit NP, it was the point to get feedback
@LightnessRacesinOrbit suppose you had to have a [c++] gold badge to get the option to vote for FAQ-ifying a question tagged C++? Anyway, it's just a rough outline of a possible suggestion. I'm pretty sure a lot more tweaking would be necessary. :)
@casperOne I gathered that when you came in asking for feedback
@jalf That's edging closer
And if any of you want moderator input for anything (doubtful, but perhaps a feature request if you come up with a great idea), feel free to ping me.
@casperOne I changed the topic when I noticed everyone so meekly and constructively expressing their concern and skepticism. That called for a celebration
Laters all.
Feb 20, 2013 16:21
Cheers
@jalf Actually, I do like that. It's hard to get to gold simply by repwhoring, and then you've still got the vote aspect to protect against the odd person-who-got-lucky-through-Reddit upsetting the system
@sehe and fuck you too. ;)
also <insert yo momma joke here>
@casperOne How about a system that sends me money every day? Just me
@jalf Good morning :)
@jalf Flesh this out, ping me if you don't want to write a feature request, I'll do it for you.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I have one. I built it from the idea in "Superman III"
Feb 20, 2013 16:22
Woot. Synergy
@casperOne there were no ideas in Superman III
@casperOne well, feel free. It's not something I've thought about at all. :)If you think there's potential in "something along those lines", go ahead and elaborate on it. :)
@jalf I can help with this too. It's a good idea. Capture it. Don't be a lobster.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You don't remember? Richard Pryor took all the fractional cents that were discarded from rounding errors and had them deposited in his account. He made billions (or lots of millions, I can't recall).
They then used that as the basis for the whole plot of "Office Space".,
@casperOne I was joking ;P all the ideas in Superman III were bad ones
Feb 20, 2013 16:23
@casperOne I probably won't do so, since it doesn't really solve the problems I see with the FAQ. But it might be a way around the problems you see with it. So the ball is in your court, I guess :)
right, can we go back to insulting each other now please?
@jalf I'm talking about the larger reference material issue. Not relating to the faq tag specifically. But if it solves that problem, then so be it. If it's just a great feature request, I'm really happy with that.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Tar in kryptonite. Horrible.
@casperOne ah, that. Yeah, I'm not sure. I muttered something about that a long time ago on meta, and it got howled down. Maybe I just worded it badly, and maybe I should give it another shot, but I usually try to avoid meta. :)
Laters all, and thanks again.
@jalf If you round up the salient points in here for me, I'll put it up and take all the glory (or all the agony).
@thecoshman sigh. I'm supposed to recompile OpenGL 3.1
Feb 20, 2013 16:27
@casperOne I'll see what I can do. No promises. But at least I've seeded the idea with you now. Maybe one morning you'll wake up and know exactly how it should work. :)
and now, I'm heading home. Have fun, al
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Q: Special handling for FAQ questions

Lightness Races in OrbitThis came out of a discussion in the C++ lounge today with @casperOne regarding the long-term viability of keeping the c++-faq meta-tag around. Please help me to flesh it out. The problems: meta-tags are bad C++, possibly uniquely, does need this sort of thing though collections of "authoritat...

^ This is a fucking mess and should be deleted. But at least the topic is raised.
 
Conversation ended Feb 20, 2013 at 16:33.