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00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 20:00

12:00 AM
lol?? you sure are crazy sir johan
 
it is not time well spent, not sure how it compares to coding the bot though
 
how is it doing now?
 
if we had a girl in here she could be milady
 
lol
 
12:18 AM
Oh. OH. OHHH! I think I've got the stupid thing. It's compiling, anyway.
 
12:32 AM
High Five!!
 
 
6 hours later…
6:33 AM
@Sisyphe M really sorry there some misunderstanding i m actually new to WPF n silverlight so got confused between m beginner in learning this. n i just hav got new laptop by some mistak my capslock key got pressed n i wrote some line but didnt thought it will be considered as harsh
i was so busy didnt got time to come back to this chat room n continue
 
 
2 hours later…
8:15 AM
good morning guys :)
 
8:45 AM
morning folks
 
8:56 AM
morning guys
@shilpa : its ok
 
9:18 AM
morning all
 
hey ;P
 
:), and how are you today gregory
 
yeah good thanks, yourself mate?
 
9:42 AM
not to bad hour late for work again :S
 
tut tut. You been working over time again then?
 
always do :), that's why I don't really care :P
 
10:08 AM
@E.LDunn I displayed my Pie chart getting the values from DB using entities.. yayyyy
hey @gregory.bmclub
 
hey buba
 
how u doing tday..
nail biting .. tomo demo in front of my boss.
 
10:29 AM
good luck :)
 
thank u @e.l
 
goodluck Buba, im sure itll go well :)
 
thanks greg :) ^^
 
10:47 AM
Morning!
 
Good day ppl
 
Good day mate :)
 
hello :)
 
Hello, Sup ? Never visited this room :P
until @Buba said one exists..
 
welcome then @codebrain
yes we tend to lurk in here pretty much 24/7 :)
somebody's usually around - mostly in EU day times
 
11:02 AM
hey @Maverik :)
 
hey buddy!
 
I managed to do that search filter :)
 
knew you'd nail it :)
 
with help of SO :)
 
AMAGAWD!! AIMP for android - just as i've sold mine!
well that's SO's job ;)
 
11:04 AM
@Maverik same thing happens at every room mate
 
and why have you sold your andriod?! andriod rules!!
 
my new phones 2 days away (hopefully!) and it's feeling like eternity
well my best mate needed one and he was flying out today - so he called me last night and just picked up
 
ah fair enough. what new phone you got now if you dont mind me asking?
 
he was gracious enough to offer me some cash for it too which normally isn't a requirement between our trading xD
N4 of course!
sold G.Nex
 
i want the N4 :(
 
11:05 AM
Haha.. Xperia z is nice ?
 
instead i have a crappy HTC
 
Xperia is nice if you don't want to feel the innards!
 
is that so bad ? lol
 
well even HTC is better than xperia
@gregory.bmclub wildfire?
 
desire C... >.<
 
11:08 AM
wildfire sucks i have one
 
use to have a wildfire then it frazzled when charging.,
 
gotta look up
I had wildfire before my gnex
wildfire is pretty awesome once you know how to tweak it
 
its very slow device, hardly it take 15 sec to open msg app
 
does the trick, small and nifty. And cheap on my contract. only £8 p/m for unlimited texts, 1G data and 100 mins
 
running 4.1.4 on a wildfire is nothing short of awesome
 
11:09 AM
temme how to tweak it :P
 
on a device that came with 1.6 !
@gregory.bmclub definitely nice deal there i think
 
you say so ? i have 2.2.1 :(
tonight thats the job ,. rooting and looting :D
 
Desire C is like elder brother of Wildfire from the quick look i've had on features
 
yeah, pratically is the wildfire
just without a flash haha
 
ERMAGAWD!! you have an android and you haven't rooted?
I rooted my wildfire in first hour i laid my hands on it (it was my first android)
 
11:11 AM
i did, it was awesome!
 
lol.. i rooted once and its dead for a week ! then i gone way back :(
lol ..warranty ?
 
i don't know how you can kill an android with root O.o
warranty? who needs it when you can fix it yourself
unless you flash wrong radio.. you can't really brick android
almost everything else is salvagable
 
it wasnt dead, but it was behaving weird since then..!
 
Mav - i think i have implemented MVVM wrongly or not done it in the correct manner :/
 
i didnt brick it i knew
 
11:13 AM
how come greg
 
@Sisyphe I solved it was available under namespace "http://schemas.microsoft.com/winfx/2006/xaml/presentation/toolkit it worked thnks :)
 
well code.. then you should have just kept at it
 
Well, I have a View, and I have a VM. but my properties are within the VM ^^
so i dont have a model...
 
umm isn't that how its supposed to be?
that's fine
in small apps, you don't always have split model / modelview
 
so its more like VVM
 
11:14 AM
patterns there to help not to dictate
most of standalone apps are like that
 
well said
 
my M usually comes from services
 
i was told not to use a service... ^^
 
well it depends
"told to" then you probably don't need a service
 
@Shilpa ? Where in india ?
 
11:15 AM
when you need to go with a service, you'll know
She's a busy lady :P
 
Mav how did you catch up with MVC initially ? if difficult for webform blood ?
@Maverik May be she is from same country of mine, lol.. I am not busy though :P
Chrome does not show the <object> in view source when it streams a video :( , firefox does
 
whats the purpose of a service mav?
 
@codebrain i'm just inferring from her earlier statement
@gregory.bmclub i generally use it for seperation
 
searching for her last message.......loading ()
 
11:22 AM
in my case there are multiple backend servers and multiple front end terminal servers
my client side runs on terminals while processing is handled on backend (as services)
and relayed to client
@codebrain its around 8am
 
cheers guys :D
 
well umm i dunno what time will it be for you but its 11:22 on timestamp for me right now
 
yeah , here its 4.52pm , and there is only text froh here since E.L.Dunn said good morning
lol
it ll be your local time printed, UTC
 
another scenario where services really help (again separation) is when I'm working within company infrastructure but i need to expose data to clients over internet
5 hours ago, by shilpa
i was so busy didnt got time to come back to this chat room n continue
 
@gregory you want to know about services ?
 
11:26 AM
Well i was just curious that it would benefit my application
 
lol..Thanks for the look up , if i get a chance i ll meet her up and say Hi! :P
 
np code
 
yeah any suggestions for good video streaming server ?
@greg Services are hosted in a server where any appllication can access it, give input to it and get relevent output like a reception
Google has services for location and weather, you open the service , give it a location name (new york) and it will give you the current weather status of new york
Services work that way
Com -> Com+ -> Dcom -> web services -> WCF -> Web API , the older to current service tech from MS
 
okay, cheers for the explanation guys :)
 
11:44 AM
welcome :)
 
@shilpa : glad to see you solved it !
@Maverik : hey mate
 
hey @Sisyphe
welcome back :)
 
I've been using chromium for the last days
it's awesome
thanks mate
I finally have time again to lurk here
 
heh you're welcome :)
 
so what's up ?
 
11:53 AM
and i'm glad you haven't had time and we're at least in same 1000th rep bracket :P
 
what are you playing these days ?
hehe
 
nothing much - rough days
 
yeah I didnt answer many questions lately
that's hard ^^
I'm beginning GOW Ascension
 
GOW? nvm.. googling
 
God Of War
sorry :)
 
12:00 PM
yea i'm checkin it out :)
no need to be sorry! you should be able to throw random stuff and people should be in habit of googling before asking!
 
or ask jeeves ;)
 
well i say google, but i dont google
left google months back when SO introduced me to DDG
DuckDuckGo.com
I've even flattr'ed them :)
 
 
1 hour later…
1:17 PM
How bad it is to do MDI in WPF ?
Anyone ?
 
MDI as in Multiple Document Interface ?
 
Yes.
 
we had a user around here that worked on an MDI project
he used an existing WPF custom framework to do that
it was ok
I personnaly did a full MDI Shell in WPF
 
But, do you recommend, or have any other suggestion ?
 
it was easy
hmmm
well having MDI is a technology agnostic choice as far as I'm concerned
if that's a UX requirement, you won't have any issue implementing that in WPF
 
1:23 PM
Better if I get an outside code or try to implement myself, if it is really easy ?
 
well the guy I told you encountered several issues with its framework
and it's REALLY easy to implement
so I would suggest doing it from scratch
 
Do you have a quick tutorial about it ? :)
 
NOpe I don't sorry :(
I didnt use any
 
Hm, I don't want to sound lazy or anything but, do you have any start point where I can look at, or anything related ?
 
wpfmdi.codeplex.com <-- that's the framework our buddy used
it's a starting poitn to see how it was done
 
1:28 PM
Excelent. I was looking at an SO question that the upvoted answer was that link haha
 
Avalon may be worth looking at
^^
 
I will look at it.
Be right back quickly.
 
sure :)
 
1:42 PM
do we REALLY need MDI in this era?
i mean yes we have to have multiple documents open at a time but generally tabs work just fine
@Sisyphe GOW looks a lot like DarkSiders II - and i loved that game - also loved Prototype I & II so i think this will fit right in with my taste :)
 
avalondock looks pretty cool actually.
 
avalondock is great. I implemeted it in PowerDesigner
 
easy to work with?
 
@Maverik : be sure to try GoW 3 before Ascencion
it's one of the best game of this kind out there
 
well it probably wont happen for a while as I'm already consumed by Shaiya
 
1:48 PM
(and Darksider I and II were excellent too ^^ )
:)
@gregory.bmclub : well...
@gregory.bmclub : it's okay
 
i didn't play DS I but after playing DS II - dont htink i wanna go and try DS I
:)
 
hehe
 
Back.
 
DSII was really great
 
most of deaths in DS II were environment deaths
he'd just not latch to walls properly
 
1:49 PM
@Maverik : but you can't serisously called yourself a gamer if you didnt play GOW III :D
 
I'm trying to recreate a whole system. It has about 50 forms.
It wouldn't be nice to put 50 forms in tabs. :(
 
lol oh yes i can!
 
nononono you can't
 
@AndréSilva but it would be ok to put 50 in 50 windows ?!
if you need more than 10 at a time, you need to go back to your UX and see what you're doing wrong
your app can't be more complicated than VS
 
@Maverik : agree with that
 
1:51 PM
and while it does use MDI, it doesn't do it the old fashioned way and even at that it contains the complexity very well
 
however I think MDI is still interresting from a UX point of view
 
back to meeting
yes.. MDI as a concept.. not the windows thing
 
you sometime want 2 or 3 view at the same time to compare stuffs
 
anyways brb
 
yup
see ya
 
1:51 PM
@Maverik It is a system that is used for Transfer Pricing and what it does is extract information from SAP to do some calculation for taxes and some other complicated stuff.
 
ho you're using our softwares ! good boy :D
back on MDI topic, it's actually pretty simple. you have to manage two Controls (SurfaceControl and InnerWindowControl) and their respective ViewModel.
on control, you just have to manage scrolling/zooming as well as add/Close events
manage the list on inner windows in the surface
some work on physical to logical units transformation
and logical to physical
and finally a bit of code to manage windows DnD + resize
 
its a few hundreds of code lines, nothing too nasty
 
Yeah, really simple..
 
yeah :P
 
1:57 PM
I was sarcastic btw..
 
I managed to get taht in under 1k code lines ^^
I know buddy :D
 
Damn ._.
 
maybe it sounds harder than it really is
WPF makes it pretty easy
 
I'm reading some topics and everyone is bashing mdi :(
 
well
that's just stupid
there is nothing wrong having multiple "Windows" to manage documents in an application
old style winform MDI may be outdated
but the multipled document interface UX principle is not wrong
Visual Studio is doing it in a pretty good way
 
1:59 PM
In graphical user interfaces, a multiple document interface or MDI is one whose windows reside under a single parent window. Such systems often allow child windows to embed other windows inside them as well, creating complex nested hierarchies. This contrasts with single document interfaces (SDI) where all windows are independent of each other. Comparison with single document interface In the usability community, there has been much debate about whether the multiple document or single document interface is preferable. Software companies have used both interfaces with mixed responses...
 
however i think doing "pure" mdi can be bad... having some sort of docking manager seems mandatory
 
There is no way I can put tabcontrol in this project and not look ugly ._.
 
well the raw WPF tabcontrol is pretty limited
if you have to manage 50+ tabs, you will need some UX customization
 
I was thinking of using a toolbar to tell which tabs it can open
And on the tabcontrol you manage to close
 
why not
but you'll have to customize the tabconrtol anyway
 
2:05 PM
Because it will look ugly ._.
 
50+ tabs will look ugly
yeah
exactly :)
 
2:23 PM
but the point remains.. if you have that many tabs open / windows open.. you're doing it wrong!
again.. look at VS - its a prime example of very complex & informative system that gives you just what you want.. only when you want it
and customization is unavoidable in this scenario
@Sisyphe have you used MS Project Server?
 
@Maverik : never
 
hmm guess i'm gonna have to experiment
 
good luck :)
 
2:42 PM
Hey all :)
@AndréSilva - Coincidentally I'm the one working on the MDI project :P I've been working on it since October
My advice would be to forget the WPFMDI plugin unless you want to get your hands dirty and modify most of the code
It's basically not supported any more, and is full of bugs. In hindsight it would have made more sense if I just created MDI functionality myself, as I've ended up changing most of the plugin's code
But then again I had never even heard of WPF in October, so I doubt I would have managed
 
@DotNET but you've learned so much cos of that :)
so all in all .. some good came out of it!
 
That's true @Maverik :)
But not everyone is a beginner, so it might just be a waste of time for others
 
2:59 PM
true but in this context he's likely to learn if he gets that far
 
and tbh things would have been a lot easier if I understood that the library was a bugfest
for the first few weeks/months, i used to debug the library's code out of desperation
Because it wouldn't even enter my mind that a plugin could actually be written very badly
so i used to think that all problems were from my end, rather than the library
Hence lots of wasted time :p
 
yea i know what you mean
thus when i go for 3rd party, first thing i check is last modified on their source
if its more than a year old - i normally just skip
i'd rather be on bleeding edge where things get fixed atleast, than be on stable that never moves forward with bug fixes
 
Didn't have much of a choice unfortunately :/ This plugin was the only one which satisfied my requirements. I had looked into avalondock too, but it wasnt what I needed
 
yea I remember your case
admittedly you were doing something rather edge case
well you are
 
Yep, it's pretty unique
 
3:09 PM
tough i'm still sure that it can be done without "mdi"
you just need to combat some of users mentality
 
I'm not so sure. Everything which can be done with SQL should be possible with my application. Since it's strictly 100% GUI based, I cant think of another way
For example what I'm working on right now is combining sub-selects with joins. Users can use my application to join 1000 tables if they like, as well as specify subselects within the filters
And it can be done very easily. All you'd need would be time to join those 1000 tables. Whereas with SQL you'd need time and a new set of eyes when you're done
And i'm aware that users would never actually need to join 1000 tables, but since this is a scientific approach, one may argue that it's possible to do that with SQL. Hence, my application needs to do that too
 
agreed with the requirement
but View has nothing to do with the requirement directly
thus it can be done in multiple ways, one is just easier than other
 
But that's not the only requirement :)
More importantly, the application is tailored for users who have absolutely no SQL knowledge
So that removes many GUI representation options
 
aa
i'd disagree with that
again you're linking view to model/viewmodel stuff
there's always a way to do things that doesn't involve windows!
here's an idea: did you consider using ListViews as "windows" ?
ListViewItem drag and drops would have provided you with FK links for example
while ListView DnD would have given you tables to throw on "Surface"
it wouldn't have been as free form drag and drop (would have snapped to some form of grid) but you could have avoided the entire mdi thing
the concept of mdi is there.. but no windows
of course i'm talking pretty generic here as i dont know the specifics but the point remains, you could have actually done things wihtout use of windows :)
 
I'm sure there are some other ways, but I can't think of any that would have been better. For example in your approach, how would users select which fields to include in the final query? With a window, you can just list the fields as checkboxes, and the window itself would represent a table.
 
3:24 PM
using checkboxes in ListView ??
I think you're thinking in winform terms - you have to remember ListView / Windows are basically same thing as far as your concerned
they're just controls with customised behaviour.. there's no reason you can't repurpose them
 
I've never used ListView in WPF so I'm not sure about the differences though
 
you dont even need ListView, ListBox could have worked too i think
there's some subtle functionality difference that I dont recall but it doesn't matter much which you use
ListBox -> xx -> ListView (thats the inheritance chain)
 
What advantages would it offer though, vs. a window?
 
@DotNET Sorry to come late to the party, but are you building a sort of database explorer?
 
A query builder @AlexMaker
 
3:27 PM
@AlexMaker you can think of it SQL Management Studio clone
he's been on it for months and nothing can change now
 
Sort of like SQL Management studio, but catered for people who have no idea what SQL is
 
this is purely intellectual discussion :)
 
Definitely cant change anything hehe, deadline is a month away :)
 
anyways, as for advantages - thats a good question
here's one - it soothes my purist soul!!
of course since you intend to stay here - thats a big advantage :P
 
Maybe if I could show you some screenshots once the system is done you'd change your mind :)
 
3:30 PM
i find window to be a fairly heavy object - certainly not meant for the sort of thing that MDI approach from winforms days used to do
i'd avoid it if i can
the fact that you don't have Native child windows, should be an indicator (at least thats how I see it)
one thing that i can't figure off the top of my head is how would you work with logical tree
window is root object - how do you connect one root to the other
@DotNET i doubt it :)
 
What do you mean @Maverik? RE: your last point about connecting roots
 
well like how would you inherit a datacontext from a parent window?
 
There aren't really parent windows as such
The only case is when windows are joined, i.e. theyre contained in a parent windows representing the join
But even then, the datacontext isn't really relevant
 
well.. it is in a proper MVVM app
if you're not working with datacontexts, then you've already made exceptions to the pattern
 
I'd say this project is slightly different to the norm - the GUI isn't really an inidcation of what goes on in the backend
Which is why it's catered for users who aren't really IT literate
I have to go @Maverik, we'll continue this discussion another time :)
 
3:41 PM
:) see ya
 
3:58 PM
2
Q: Changing the label foreground on mouseover, but the label is inside of button content

PnctI am new at WPF and xaml, but still as I was reading about this is tricky thing. The thing what I want to change on mouseover is the label foreground color, but the label is inside of the button content. Everything should be done by styles, without C#. <Button Name="Home_Button" Height="50" ...

 
posted on March 19, 2013 by Eric Lippert

Though we've exchanged a few emails over the years, I've only met Joel Spolsky once, back in 2005, and since he was surrounded by a protective layer of adoring fanboys we didn't get to chat much. So it was a … Continue reading →

 
4:19 PM
@DotNET Sorry for the late response. It was lunchtime !
Thanks for the advice. I think I might be working with tabcontrol though..
 
4:39 PM
good choice Andre - the discontinuity is going to be a major pain if you take the third party route
 
Probably.. Even though the major pain is actually rebuilding the SAP framework.. Because the actual one we use are terrible
And I mean are because we use a framework that uses another frameworks that uses the SAP framework.
So it is one that is actually 3
 
cute
 
I think he doesn't realise :P
 
4:57 PM
Who doesn't realize what ?
 
did you get Sisyphes comment? :)
 
I got to read, not to understand actually
 
i think he chuckled at SAP Framework part
considering he's an employee of SAP peeps :)
 
Ah
I'm not bashing SAP.. I'm bashing the people from the company I work for that made a framework that uses the SAP..
 
yea we got that eventually :D
 
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