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12:05 AM
Nice talk everyone
4
 
 
2 hours later…
2:11 AM
posted on December 13, 2020 by hostilefork

Recap: Historical Rebol has this behavior for GROUP!s in conditionals: rebol2>> branches: [[print "Apple"] [print "Banana"]] rebol2>> either false (print "take" take branches) (print "take" take branches) take take Banana Doesn't seem ideal. But having both groups run is the only choice you have if the branches are evaluative parameters. The GROUP!s are evalua

 
 
1 hour later…
3:29 AM
> "equally important to what kinds of wild paths and tuples you might create if you wanted, is the fact that mysteriously evil paths and tuples won't be able to exist."
 
4:07 AM
A question from a non-programmer: what are the conditions (non-typo) where you reference a word unassigned to a value? Why do you need GET/ANY?
 
4:22 AM
@rgchris for-each item block1 [append block2 item] ... if "bad-word!"s (unsets, voids, what-have you) are reified existing things, they may be in the block. Generic code wishing to process the situation and punt on the weird status needs a way to do it.
You don't have to offer the access via GET/ANY; it could be some other construct that doesn't fold into GET, but then you'd write a branching code that would be like "if it's not a bad word, get it, otherwise do this other thing"
The hope is that most people won't have to write code that worries about this. But if you have the desire to make something that is "like copy, but different" it would be frustrating if you were somehow more limited in your powers to copy "bad" elements.
Raising errors is the intentional general behavior, deferred to the moment where it's a problem:
> A void! is a means of giving a hot potato back that is a warning about something , but you don't want to force an error "in the moment"...in case the returned information wasn't going to be used anyway.
foo: func [...] [
    case [
        ... [return reduce [1 + 2 3 + 4]]
        ... [return reduce [5 + 6 '~not-applicable~]]
    ]
]  ; potential kind of application
 
 
4 hours later…
8:11 AM
Recording of the talks today: youtu.be/AeayMEmh7Bs
 
@GrahamChiu Seems to be frozen and not working after your bit, perhaps after your edit.
 
8:29 AM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE Just tried it now ... seems okay so far
Maybe just skip a little?
I don't think video works that well but the voice is captured
Maybe someone else can try recording as well .. maybe I don't have enough grunt or what I'm using OBS isn't good enuf
But, I'm happy the audio is clear
 
 
7 hours later…
3:59 PM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE It's a more fundamental question: in which cases do we encounter words without values? Why do we go HAS-NO-VALUE => VOID! -> ERROR! instead of HAS-NO-VALUE => ERROR! ? In a sense, BAD-WORD! is moving toward being an alternative to ERROR!
(I presented this in an abstract way of someone that will not likely ever use the interpreter)
 
 
6 hours later…
9:50 PM
@rgchris make block! system/contexts/user or anything which asks to reflect the state of something that has named things which are as yet unassigned. Unassigned things are created as placeholders in order to coordinate future assignments. "The Real Story about User and Lib Contexts"
That is the core issue.
As outlined above...my feeling is that if you remove the "bad" state from the list of user reify-able things, you wind up creating rendering and storage problems that are basically analogous to if you had a representation for it.
I think it's okay and natural for most code you would write in the style of for-each item block1 [append block2 :item] to do it like that and ignore voids..letting them error if they happen. That is the intent. I'm a little wary of the fact that you get functions in such iterations without asking for them, so I had proposed needing to say for-each :item block1 or similar else it would error.
I could have said mold system/contexts/user also. Point being you have to have a way to talk about unset things, that are there, but not set.
There and not set are distinct from not there, and that distinction has relevance to many levels of work of interest in userspace.
Believe me--I'd wish it were not so. I'd like every field in an object that isn't set to just not be in the list of keys you can see. Problem would be solved. Except that doesn't work.
 
10:52 PM
@rgchris Early (and even not so early) Ren-C pushed the premise of something you may be wanting to get at...that NULL was the best idea for the encoding of this state. That way, you don't worry about a value that represents unsetness. However, there's a train of documented and complete thought moving from that point up to today.
 

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