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12:08 AM
@rgchris I'm not sure if we could accomplish a chat forum, but it would be fun to try. Docs seem to suggest there's some support: htmx.org/attributes/hx-ws
 
@Edoc RIM wasn't at all that fancy—the challenge is contriving a way to distribute messages.
 
 
4 hours later…
3:59 AM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE My expressions on a dissonance on NULL/VOID are sincere. It may be that your writing hasn't clicked yet for me or that there is something amiss that, again, I can't put my finger on. So much weight on such a small distinction. Don't spend any time getting mad that I've missed something—if it's correct, I'll get there
 
 
3 hours later…
6:32 AM
@rgchris Not mad, but as my response points out, it's all part of a tricky matrix of established dogma and practice up against the limits of what's necessary and possible. The system is ready to flex to whatever rules are best, so just try to lay out real code and scenarios and it should be able to bend to it...either in the box, or for you personally.
 
 
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9:11 AM
posted on December 10, 2020 by rgchris

the difference between null and void is that null is a non-existent or empty value or set of values while void is an empty space — WikiDiff I think nailing down the definitions of NULL and VOID outside of their current application or behaviour—even simply within English—would be instructive. I still feel unsettled with the way both work in a way I can't put my finger on even if

 
 
5 hours later…
2:35 PM
posted on December 10, 2020 by iArnold

Perhaps this needs to be in a (sub)category of its own. You know the feeling that you want to do something that looks really simple but how to do this in Rebol/Ren-C Case: A. Transforming the content of a block into a string B. Transforming the content of a string to become a block First try: A. >> blk: [What becomes of a string when turned into a [] value?] == [What b

 
 
5 hours later…
7:25 PM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE am getting an SSL error browsing Ren Garden
 
7:43 PM
@rgchris Ugh, I tried to disable the https on the site that was autoconfigured by certbot, and it looks like my attempt to turn it off turned it on
@rgchris Okay, it was doing a rewrite rule I didn't realize it was doing: should be fixed
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE ^^^ Still getting this error
 
7:59 PM
@rgchris Are you using a https:// link or a http:// link? Did you hard refresh?
The server had started automatically forwarding http: to https: despite me not asking for it, it did it when I installed the site certificate.
 
I got http:// working in a private window—rewrite was cached
 
I have a skepticism of the design points of https. Not cryptography as a general concept, but this idea that there's an evolving and insane patchwork of protocols distributed across every server that is impenetrable.
The idea that every level of your communication must be encrypted is to my mind flawed; it's like the analog-vs-digital TV analogy Carl made where the analog set might get fuzzy reception but you can go around and use your intuition to tweak it and look for the interference from the microwave or whatever source. While the digital TV just is "all on, or all off" in the most annoying sense of the word digital.
When we're all forced into https where that https is dominated by evolution beyond our control it's analogous; I feel there has to be some sort of spectrum that keeps you more grounded. The idea of being able to tunnel communications through a channel which is arbitrarily mutable by bad actors suggests maybe you aren't doing a good enough job of finding and eliminating bad actors.
 
I've seen many posts by Dave Winer against HTTPS.
 
@rgchris I'm of the same feeling on ad blockers and pretty much any filter that takes away your senses. Now you're sending links to people and don't know what you're sending. Or Edge now not pasting the actual http://xxx text but giving you the page title hyperlinked when you paste places. These trends are all bad, hiding payloads, disempowering you.
 
8:19 PM
Yes, they are bad. Another one: My blog doesn't need HTTPS. Some interesting points in the comments though.
 
It is good when you share a secret with another party, to be able to leverage that shared secret to communicate with them in a way where the only way an attacker can interfere is to cut the connection. But cutting a connection is still a destructive threat (especially in a world where people willfully push the idea that lack of response means "not interested" or "they should know to stop bothering me, and if they keep writing when I did not respond they're psycho").
Anyway, there's a sort of "stack of premises" and blindly accepting any complexity cost--or forcing it--for the sake of one aspect of security while ignoring everything else isn't such a great idea, when the loss of control has tons of risks of its own.
You'd be better off with a "multi-internet" that checked against several disconnected ways of acquiring information and made sure it was all consistent than tying everything to one single "super secure" source that was assumed as absolute canon--but you couldn't understand anything about how it worked, and people can drop off from not keeping quite in sync with its evolving madness -or- on the whims of that medium for other suspicious reasons.
 
8:57 PM
So many other problems out there too, the whole 'fake news' thing (the problem that existed before the term was hijacked)—security doesn't guarantee authenticity.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:05 PM
@Feeds @HostileForksaysdonttrustSE The eight-year-old in me failed to point out sooner that you said doo doo!
 
posted on December 10, 2020 by rgchris

It occurred to me in this post that MOLD/ONLY appears to work at odds to other /ONLY options: >> append [] [] == [] ‌>> append/only [] [] == [[]] ‌>> mold [] == "[]" ‌>> mold/only [] == "" As my solution to /ONLY is to use an optimized equivalent of func [value][reduce [value]], this highlights the discrepency: >> append only [] [] ; same as app

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