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1:00 PM
@LucDanton typedef here and warning/error about its use here
note that clang 3.1 is fine.
 
Well, I admit that global variables are shit, but I wouldn't say that of static variables, at least not in all cases
 
@Papergay static is global.
 
i thought global is static?
 
depends on if you mean the storage duration or the keyword. I'm not all into the exact definition of these things.
 
not storage duration, but storage type
 
1:03 PM
every static variable in C++ is global. Only function-local static gets you a soft guarantee of initialization order and safe initialization.
 
nvb
every static variable in C++ is global <<< huh?
 
@rubenvb Where is the anonymous namespace?
 
well i have no time, i will ask later if you wont mind
 
@LucDanton That's exactly what I'm wondering.
 
lol
 
1:04 PM
Maybe the lambda is in a hidden anonymous namespace?
 
Sorry, this looks like one of those very isolated errors that got quashed relatively quickly. I don't remember hitting it, and I can't repro.
 
np.
A comparator functor struct works.
 
@GorchestopherH Try it
@rubenvb A wild cat appears
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, it's probably for colours (markdown with true italics, YAY) that I use the GUI. But I use set guioptions=agi to reduce clutter.
 
I use eR.
 
dammit. Stupid GCC.
 
1:19 PM
PEEPS
 
dammit my map<file_type, set<pair<pair<string,time_t>, pair<string, time_t>>>> isn't as clean as I want it >:s
 
@rubenvb +1. My VM is useless now <3
 
@rubenvb Wat
 
@rubenvb use typedef/using
 
@Collin I want per file_type a set of source files (name+time last modified), unique per filename, and an assorted list of object files (name+time last modified). But the assorted is crucial: I need at least the same order in both sets, which isn't guaranteed by having to seperate sets.
@BartekBanachewicz That's what I'm using. But I need to iterate over only the first inner pairs or the second inner pairs.
@BartekBanachewicz how so? update-alternatives didn't work?
 
1:27 PM
@rubenvb Nothing did work. Now I ended up with so many dependency errors I'm hopeless
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh, you mixed squeeze with sid. That's not smart.
Pick one, stick to it. Or use another distro.
 
@rubenvb might help it out to instead of using a pair, just make a struct which contains a string and time_t
 
@rubenvb Now I know it.
 
and a struct which contains a source and object file
would keep your lookups from being map[".cpp"].find(probe)->first->second or whatever
 
@Collin I'd still have to select that part of the struct when I only iterate over the source files though.
@Collin that's true.
 
1:32 PM
@rubenvb The nesting would still be pretty deep, but at least the names would be easier to keep track of
or make a class which keeps track of map<file_type, set<source_file> > and map<source_file, object_file> and interact with it that way
 
@Collin that second map would be deadly in performance IMHO for no reason whatsoever. I know premature optimization is evil, but still, a map<string,string> would suck to keep for the potential hundreds of strings.
 
@rubenvb Maybe the source file type can just keep a pointer around to it's object?
ehh
 
Well, well, I just saw how to do a fall through switch case in C#: put a goto at the end of the case.
 
unordered_map then?
 
@Collin is the order in an unordered set/map the same as the insertion order?
 
1:36 PM
@EtiennedeMartel That's possibly the main reason goto is in the language.
 
@rubenvb Wouldn't think so
 
user784668
@rubenvb Hint: look at the name of the container.
 
@Fanael lol well yeah, but still. vector is unordered and its elements' order is the order in which they were push_back'ed (assuming no in-between inserts)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, well, let's just say I was a bit surprised when I saw a goto default in one of my coworker's code.
 
@Collin maybe I can keep an unordered_map for the source to object file mapping.
 
1:38 PM
@rubenvb Why would it need ordering though? I figured the goal of havingyour matching sets were just so you could match up the source and objects
oh, yeah that's what I meant
 
uhu. I'll go with that for now. Easiest thing to implement.
thanks
 
or have the source file 'own' the object, and keep track of whether it's built or not
I assume this is some sort of compiler
 
@Collin a build system yeah.
I want to skip command generation for files that don't need a rebuild by comparing time last modified.
 
@rubenvb Actually, yeah, I'd just make the source file type own the object. Then you can just zip through (a vector even) of source files and ask them, "Do you need rebuilding?"
 
@Collin hmm. That's require some rewriting and a "source_file" class. Not a bad idea, but I'll keep a set of them (which a custom operator< in the class) to ensure uniqueness.
 
1:46 PM
@rubenvb uniqueness is a good idea
 
now to find a better class name than source_file
 
Turns out a woman's built-in defenses against rape-pregnancy aren't as good as everyone made them out to be: http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/a/10510/2794 - #Akin
^ I guess it must be, then, Akins daughter has never told him the real reason she went to Mexico in the summer of 2003? How surprising <whistle/>
Makes perfect sense, no? How else would a guy get these beliefs...
 
Are there as many delusional politicians in Europe as there are here?
 
@sehe USA. 'nuff said.
 
@Collin Sure, why?
 
1:50 PM
@sehe Just wondering
 
@Collin I don't think so. But that may be chauvinism in its purest form.
 
@rubenvb Sadly, it looks like that is the case :)
 
I never heard anyone make such a silly argument during the campaigns of both referendums on abortion we ran.
 
user784668
@Collin Do non-delusional politicians exist at all?
 
I think the way politicians get elected might be a bit in favor of the european system, to be honest: money has less to do with things than in America
 
1:53 PM
@sehe I don't remember anything as stupid as what was said in any President's election in the US, in Belgium, nor Europe.
 
However, in Holland we see a slow but steady shift to the American model. We get business men 'grabbing power' by starting political parties. Most of them either loose interest, go down with internal arguments or get discarded at the next election for not honouring their promises, but still
 
@sehe You're misrepresenting the original claim. Women only have defences against legitimate rape pregnancy.
 
@rubenvb Well, I don't follow politics abroad, but in holland we had a few, Austria and Belgium had a few (Vlaams Blok, anyone?), germany had this guy:
Karl-Theodor Freiherr zu Guttenberg (full name: Karl Theodor Maria Nikolaus Johann Jacob Philipp Franz Joseph Sylvester Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg; born 5 December 1971) is a German politician of the Christian Social Union (CSU). In 2011 Guttenberg joined the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) as a Distinguished Statesman. He also advises European Commission Vice President Neelie Kroes on the promotion of internet freedom regarding questions of foreign affairs. A Member of Parliament from 2002 until March 2011, Guttenberg briefly held the post of Secretary Genera...
 
European politicians are deluded on different subjects. For an obvious example, can you imagine anybody who wasn't delusional looking at Greece, say, 5 years ago and thinking there was't a problem with the monetary situation there?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I claim text room deprivation
 
1:58 PM
> full name: Karl Theodor Maria Nikolaus Johann Jacob Philipp Franz Joseph Sylvester Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg
W. T. F.
 
Karl Theodor Maria Nikolaus Johann Jacob Philipp Franz Joseph Sylvester Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg
That is a serious name for serious business
 
> the discovery and public criticism of plagiarism in his subsequently-revoked doctoral thesis led to his resignation as Minister of Defence on 1 March 2011 and from the Bundestag on 3 March
 
That would be an illegal name in Portugal (can't have more than 8 names in total).
 
@sehe Vlaams Blok is still a lot more "educated" than most US politicians. Some of their points (not nation-wide, but ocal) even have merit.
 
Or maybe he was just a little grandiose
 
1:59 PM
@rubenvb shouldn't your key function be the basename of the source object?
 
@rubenvb Well, well, aiming low. 'most US policiticians', really? Any evidence to back that, please
 
@sehe Unless he changed his name later, I think you have to hold is parents responsible for that.
 
@rubenvb And I never said all their statements should be equally disturbing
 
@sehe don't have any evidence, but it sounds fair.
 
Do you think anyone is born with such a name? Do you think it is coincidence that he 'frauded' his way into top positions too?
 
2:01 PM
@sehe Oh, we have that often here it seems. Previous prime minister was an engineer that "somehow" took an English exam on a Sunday. Currently there's a minister that graduated by completing only four out of 36 courses.
 
@SamDeHaan Meh
 
@sehe Just look at all the president candidates of the last few elections. Don't forget to count all the people clapping at their stupid statements. And there are numerous examples abroad on the internet of lower-level politicians saying awfully stupid stuff.
@sehe and Vlaams Belang never had anything to say. US arsefaces become presidents.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's nothing. The collective ministers of finance of Europe make all of their important decisions on a sunday :)
 
@sehe As an american, it wouldn't take much
 
@rubenvb All I can see is the same issues in a progressed stadium
@Collin Huh? You mean, you agree?
 
2:03 PM
@sehe and exactly that is the difference IMHO. Here it is still contested and often put down before it becomes relevant.
 
@sehe I don't know about Vlaams Blok, but I do know it wouldn't take much to be smarter
Many US politicians have advanced degrees, but I think many of them have forgotten how to look at anything beyond their party's talking points
 
@rubenvb I can see the 'amplitude' of the symptoms getting so big, that it will be a matter of, say 10 years, until a country gets the shock of a lifetime and must pray that the constitution doesn't get maimed enough in 4 years to sabotage the democracy.
@Collin Yeah. All fair game, but many != most. Also, don't just count the public-facing politicians
 
@sehe We should take a six-month break from democracy.
 
@Collin Vlaams Belang (Blok is the old name, they had to change it because they were found guilty of racism) is an "extreme" right party. Now they only border on racism.
 
Ah, kind of like the republicans!
 
2:06 PM
In fact, when you do, count H.Clinton, B.Obama, G.Rice and many many others. They might not have had the opportunity to enact the best of policies, but they can clearly think.
 
Good thing Chimera isn't here, I'd be in big trouble :-P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You're scaring me
 
@sehe That was an actual suggestion from a previous finance minister here (about six years ago).
 
@Collin yeah, exactly. but here the party is excluded from participation in the government (not really democratic, but hey, that's the way it turned out). In the US, half the people vote on such people.
@Collin you got that right.
 
@sehe B.Obama can deliver written speeches. Whether or not he can think is still undecided, imo.
 
2:07 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, Spain had democracy for only, what is it, 50 years? Can't you go chat with the neighbours instead?
 
@SamDeHaan elaborate please.
 
@SamDeHaan Really? The level of skepticism there is astounding.
 
@sehe If that matters (why?) ours is even younger. Less than 40 years.
 
Obama's managed to push through a lot more good than I would have expected
I don't think you can deny he's a smart guy, whether you agree with his ideas or not is another story
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Again proving I'm bad at history (and Portugal is deemed irrelevant in the average dutch curriculum)
 
2:08 PM
@sehe I'm a Merkin. If I pay any attention to what happens in politics, it's impossible to not be skeptical of every single one of them.
 
@Collin exceptionally smart, would be a more apt way to phrase that
@SamDeHaan Move or abstain from voting...
 
I think Bush started out as a compassionate, intelligent guy, but he got swept up in the whole war on terrorism and let himself get pushed by his advisors into doing stupid things
I'm more inclined to believe Cheney ran the white house those 8 years
and he's nuts
 
@Collin he didn't seem like a smart enough guy to think for himself. And held a ton of drunk speeches in the process.
 
He was a poor speaker, but I think he started out with everyone's best interests at heart
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes how the hell wasn't I following TinkerTim yet. Good call on the retweet. We need them ducks. Hand them out at the door to the lounge :)
 
2:10 PM
He just was not very good at it
 
@Collin Right until September 11.
 
I'm a bit torn on my lazy-eval EDSL. Should val(0) represent a 'local' value? This would mimic lambda expression semantics somewhat, such that ++val(i); would be the same as [i]() mutable { return ++i; }; (notice obvious use case for generator right here). That would diverge from Boost.Phoenix though, where val(0) is a constant.
 
@Collin No, he's actually a Dick :)
 
@rubenvb Exactly, and that's when the whole government got paranoid and stupid
@sehe That too
 
@Collin that was what? One year into Bush's term?
 
2:11 PM
@rubenvb Not quite a year
 
@LucDanton Why would you 'defer' a prvalue into a reference?
 
He took office January of 2001
 
lol @ American politics.
 
@Collin If it were just the US government that got paranoid and stupid...
 
@LucDanton I think constant is much more ok, especially with a view to optimization after inlining
 
2:12 PM
@sehe Ya, I know what you mean. val(0) in Phoenix really means 'the literal 0'.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Would have been nice if the brits could have talked some sense into us
 
Perhaps I could leave val to match Phoenix's val and introduce var.
 
@Collin they had their heads too far up Bush's ass to think straight.
 
var(0) += val(2) <- generator of even integers
 
True true
 
2:14 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I liked Bowling For Columbine for that analysis: USA seems to be feeding itself more fear to cure the (addiction to) fear
 
@Collin At least from what I've heard, the Brits have the highest density of cameras to "spy" on themselves of any country on earth. If that's even close to true, the chances of them talking anybody else out of being paranoid seem rather remote.
 
TIL: In Opera, hit Shift-I to hide/show all pictures. Makes the chat a lot more usable since I moved to a position where my monitor is facing the group - including the project manager :)
 
Actually I've heard that as well. I read a story once about a plainclothes police officer chasing himself for 20 minutes at the direction of a CCTV operator until the chief walked in and laughed at them
Not sure if it's true, but definitely hillarious
 
@Collin Yeah, that was hilarious.
 
@Collin Hilarious. Linky?
 
Feb 7 at 17:14, by R. Martinho Fernandes
This is fucking awesome: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9066337/CCTV-police-officer-chased-himself-after-being-mistaken-for-burglar.html
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I linked that article a few days ago. I think it's relevant: calgaryherald.com/opinion/letters/…
 
@Collin No one uses them nowadays.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Not sure if pulling a gun would have been the most defusing thing to do in that situation
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
2:20 PM
@Collin I hear that 'torygraph' is one of its nickname.
 
@Collin You must be kidding
 
@Collin Guy approaches. You pull gun and shoot guy. Situation defused.
 
@sehe Huh?
They probably wanted to hand the dude a flyer
Obviously I was not there
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's ridiculous. But you're a robot and I forgive you.
 
@sehe I'd just caution that you won't get very far by taking Michael Moore's "documentaries" too seriously. It's been pretty clearly established that he starts with a specific viewpoint he wants to portray, and finds people who'll say what he wants. He sometimes apparently interviews hundreds to find a few who say what he wants -- and even then sometimes edits what they so to the point that the interviewees claim he's falsely representing what they said.
 
2:24 PM
@JerryCoffin oh wow. I didn't know people did that. Every documentary has that.
 
@Collin They were working for the government, actually. The Calgary Stampede is a big touristic event there.
 
Critical thought is something missed by the masses.
 
@rubenvb Maybe I should put a disclaimer somewhere that I do not condone shooting people and any time I suggest someone should do so I'm using sarcasm, possibly to make a point.
3
 
@EtiennedeMartel I was just looking that up
 
No, the "masses" are defined by absence of critical thought. That's better.
 
2:25 PM
@rubenvb Everytime people say "mass", I think about a sledgehammer.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes heck, you should probably pin that on the starboard ;-)
 
@rubenvb Sounds like the Wizard's First Rule: people are stupid.
 
@rubenvb The others may not be much (or any) better, but it doesn't change the fact that taking his seriously would be pretty foolish.
 
@JerryCoffin I enjoy his documentaries, although I haven't seen this particular one yet.
@R.MartinhoFernandes most people don't know that.
 
^ Somalia
 
2:27 PM
@Collin allowing people to hand me flyers is a violation of my rights, obviously
 
@rubenvb It's really cool! There's guns in it!
 
@rubenvb He's a good enough film maker that they're generally enjoyable, but taking their message as anything but Michael Moore's own opinion is a mistake.
 
@SamDeHaan I think that giving guns to stressed out people is a mistake.
 
What about guns and a stress ball?
 
@JerryCoffin I know that. Actually, I left the whole documentary alone for that very reason. But when he made it publicly available just a while ago, I watched it (while programming at night :)) and I found a few bits in the analysis to be interesting
 
2:29 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Are you claiming that cops are immune to stress?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes cops have been trained to operate under stressful situations. Though not immune, i'd argue "more resistant" by which I mean they are expected to think straight in such a situation.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The guy felt threatened by two guys who asked him if he went to the Stampede.
 
Stampede sounds dangerous.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, they're rednecks alright.
 
Dammit. Getting loads of C++ style error messages that make little to no sense whatsoever. So far goes my "let's compile and see where this thing needs fixing because I made a change" plan.
 
2:32 PM
Fucking Albertans.
 
@rubenvb Haha, that always backfires for me. And then I end up going to sleep too late.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yet a job that requires you to carry a gun is pretty much guaranteed to be one that leads directly to massive stress.
 
@JerryCoffin I understand. Still, in Canada, if you go talk to any police officer, he won't react by putting his hand on his weapon.
 
Working on my end. I'm cutting out swaths of crap code from my lazy-eval stuff. The immense stack of errors is always funny whenever expression templates fail.
 
We don't have a culture of "anyone is a potential aggressor".
 
2:35 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Can't say I've ever seen a policeman in the US do anything like that either though (nor anywhere else I've visited).
 
@JerryCoffin Maybe it's just that guy.
 
@LucDanton Well, forward declarations tend to worsen everything a lot. An extra include does magic.
 
@rubenvb They do? I don't have a lot of those -- they're often a sign of coupling, aren't they?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well, my guess would be that there are areas where it's a lot more common than others. Given the crime rates in some places, police officers assigned there are probably fairly justified in thinking of most people who approach them as possible aggressors. I don't live in such a place though, and oddly have never felt much inclination to go there on vacation either.
 
@JerryCoffin From what I've heard, increased law enforcement typically leads to higher crime rates.
 
2:39 PM
@LucDanton I have a typedef header that uses (for now) 3 of my classes. So maybe coupling yeah.
@EtiennedeMartel that's an expected correlation in the first few years of increased law enforcement: lots of baddies are caught.
 
@LucDanton It's funny, and also a good reason to use Vim in a terminal: cut down on time wasted with slow screen updating... /cc @Xeo
 
I don't think crime rates include only those where the perpetrators are caught.
 
@EtiennedeMartel The two are undoubtedly correlated, but figuring out which actually leads to the other is probably a bit more difficult. If it were true in general, we should obviously eliminate all law enforcement, but I hope you'll forgive me if I entertain some doubts about that working out for the best.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Maybe not only those where the perpetrators are caught, but certainly only those where the crime itself is detected.
 
@JerryCoffin Progressive measures (reinsertion instead of incarceration, for example) give better results at a lower cost.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Some people are too serious to hang out here. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [fun] [not-your-helpdesk] [nsfw]
The topic was getting old. Also hi.
 
2:45 PM
@CatPlusPlus Hello.
 
hmm
 
Damn. Clang uses method to denote a member function. WHHHHYYYYY?
 
@rubenvb Java influence?
 
@rubenvb seems sensible enough
it's not like it has another meaning
 
@ecatmur I know. I just hate it.
@ecatmur method == way of doing something ~= algorithm.
but I've ranted about this before.
 
2:53 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Worse: Apple influence.
 
APPPPEEPEPEPEPEPEELLELELELELEL
 
there. I refactored the source_file object_file thing into one struct with both.
Thank you Clang. Thank you glass of water. Thank you laptop. Thank you mom.
2
 
it was a bitch to fix... Shut up... Leave me alone!
 
user784668
@rubenvb You can change the strings if you want, y'know.
 
2:57 PM
@Fanael lol. Local patches: sed s/method/member function/
 
Meanwhile I'm getting nowhere. Silly placeholders.
 

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