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War
12:01 PM
thats the idea :)
 
@War yeah, you can laugh :)
 
War
Having a career in IT is non trivial IMO ... especially if you want to go far ... if you are happy just being a junior / mid level dev for 20 years sure ... it's dead easy, 9-5 monday to friday
but if you want to be running teams and designing platforms it's a lot harder
you basically have to live it
hense why @Alex is right ... if it's what you really love ... it's not work and you dump extra time all over the placewithout even thinking about it
I recall having to deal with wnating to be in IT before the current generation where knowing stuff about computers all of a sudden became "cool" ... when I was learning I was labelled a geek which back then was a bad thing and meant a whole metric crap ton of "grief" from my peers ... shortly after leaving school I basically buried myself in my work until I came out as a senior level dev about 5 years later
 
@War Very true. You have to be constantly pushing yourself, learning new tech, new ways of doing things
 
War
I basically did near on 12 to 16 hour days all week
 
The proj lead doesn't want to learn anything new. Just wants to keep going with what he knows. He dumps stuff on the rest of us when it's challenging.
 
War
12:07 PM
I always felt there was something my peers in IT knew that I didn't ... the annoying thing is ... I still feel that way and it bugs me
@Alex yeh except in our case i am the project lead ... and I get right pissy when I can't fix something or I find a gap in my knowledge
someone on facebook pointed out to me the other day that terms I took for granted now have different meanings
stuff like ... how many bytes in a kilobyte?
 
There's no way to know everything. There will always be more to learn. Hence we're students forever, never thinking we know all knowledge in any field
I know this much: that I know very little
 
War
The more I know the less I feel I know
it's a crazy steep curve being in programming
 
@War what makes you think I didn't do that ?
 
@War But it exercises the mind... keeps us seeking answers
 
what makes you think people who work hard always succeed ?
 
12:12 PM
I would argue there are different measures of success. Some consider a big salary, while others gain satisfaction at a job well done, regardless of the material rewards
 
@War You are making lots of prejudiced comments, last thing I would expect from a team leader :|
 
War
@Mathematics I think we as humans are hard wired to gravitate towards what we are naturally good at
you can't work that hard at something you enjoy and not succeed at some level unless you are really bad at it and haven't found your true calling yet
 
what do you name a class that looks up user information from the database with functions like emailExists(), phoneExists() and getUserIDbyEmail()?
 
War
@Mathematics i'm just saying ... it takes a lot to be good, and natural gravity helps
you can't say "i don't have time" and expect that to be a reason for you to not be moving up the ladder
 
@War I am not disagreeing with what you are saying, I am only disagreeing with your logic that it always work
 
12:15 PM
@CoderDudeTwodee UserDetails or UserInformation, UserLookup
 
Honestly you don't even know or asked me how much hard work I did & you are already making assumptions about me :|
This is what happens in my team as well, people make prejudiced comments about technologies and you are making it about humans
 
War
@Mathematics i'm not judging you ... just saying ... you have to push ... IT is hard ... like really hard
there's always some arrogant prick who thinks they know more than you
I hate that
I feel myself becoming that though (and it sucks)
 
tbh I didn't feel War was talking about Mathematics. Just talking general.
and himself
 
War
^ yup that was the idea
soz if anyone was offended
I broke the SSO server code on friday at 4:45pm
 
@Alex I already have a class called user that holds functions for the current user like register() and login(), is it appropriate to have something like UserInformation?
 
12:18 PM
35 mins ago, by War
@Alex I know right ... I tell him what I have faced along my path and that he's backing himself in to corner then he complains when realises he's cornered ... I realise i'm not always the best at explaining things but jeez!
 
War
I ended up sat here til like 8pm fixing it
the break was my fault ... improving the code by choice
 
@Mathematics oh. That was way back, before the general stuff
and Yes, that part was about You
 
War
@Mathematics to be fair ... I have pushed you to do things using WebAPI and at every point you've pushed back at me
now you have issues / limitations in your current architecture
I was simply pointing that out
 
How does mathematics stand a chance against war?
 
@War it might just be a misunderstanding
 
War
12:20 PM
everything that followed was just generalisation though
@CoderDudeTwodee am I being overly hard on him?
 
@War No, war in general is hard.
 
War
@Mathematics apologies man ... did not mean to offend ... i am C*** though as my other half likes to point out daily ... then I buy her more pandora jewelery and ice cream
 
@War no, but you are making lots of assumptions about me, which are not true
 
And mathematics is hated by a looooot of people around.
 
War
@Mathematics Assumptions? I've made a few about people in programming in general but not about you
 
12:22 PM
I guess it was coming.
 
War
lol
 
2 mins ago, by War
now you have issues / limitations in your current architecture
 
War
@Mathematics do you remember when we talked about using WebAPI in sharepoint ?
 
there is nothing wrong with architecture, maybe I made it sounds like it.
Everything is working but I am missing some functionalities
 
Somehow I feel better when War changes topic/generalizing, than the rest. In my view it's like War beeing trolled. Others see themself offended by War
 
War
12:23 PM
you said that it was basically impossible ... and it doesn't work
 
@War I remember everything, and I will try implementing that at some point in future
 
War
I really wish I had some of my older corporate intranet stuff floating about
I could have shown you how I got WebAPI and sharepoint talking
or at least sharing certain info
bugs me actually that I couldn't have given you more at the time
 
@War I am not challenging you on that, and I did some research on it few weeks ago, I can't go as fast as you :P
give me sometime... :P
anyway do you have family ?
 
War
My bad ... do I learn stuff fast?
 
@War maybe, but I don't have enough time
by the way I am constantly bullied at work, and you are asking me to work extra hours to move forward :D
 
12:28 PM
leave the company. Bulling isn't something that should be coped with, or being normal work environment
 
@ntohl visa dependency...
 
War
@Mathematics bullied ... why?
@ntohl agreed ... that's horribly bad business practice
@Mathematics what country you working in ?
let me guess ... America?
 
I was bullied in the last month at my last work. It was not pleasant. They knew, that I will move to next company, so they showed their real side.
 
@War you forget lots of things :P, I don't work too far from you..
 
War
I quit my last job because of Americas attitude towards employees ... employment law over there favours the company, over here it's more equal and in places gives the employee an edge
@Mathematics Oh that's right, you're in reading right?
 
12:33 PM
@War yes, just near reading
 
War
So you can take it up with HR and if they try and fire you you can sue them for unfair dismissal
you'd basically get back every penny and then compensation on top
 
@War small companies don't have HR ;)
its easier to wait till I get my visa then getting into risky situations
 
In one place I worked, the HR dept. was under the same people who were behaving badly/bullying the employees. Going to them was like telling your boss how badly he was behaving!
 
morning :)
 
War
@Mathematics every UK company has to have HR process ... its a legal requirement
 
12:37 PM
I don't know the law over there, but a good advice is to save every invoice that may be related to extra, that company pressured You to pay for
 
@Mathematics Good idea. You'll move on from this place, trust me. I worked in some truly crummy places over the years. Felt I couldn't get out. Then one day the opportunity came and I grabbed it. So don't lose hope :)
 
War
they may not have a HR department but if you complain they have to follow a process for handling it
 
Every Company has an HR policy some just are 1 person
 
@Alex yes, been here for 7 years - only an year left :)
so yes I am very positive
but it affected my abilities to stand out though... that what bullying does.. kills your confidence
 
War
@Mathematics yeh that's tough man
didn't you say you can move on in a few months?
 
12:41 PM
has it been bad since the start? @Mathematics
 
@War well yes, it's less then an year :)
@Proxy not this bad, but I was junior in start so you they had benefit of doubt
 
War
have you not been keeping up with the team or something?
usually there's a reason people get shitty in offices and it's probably something retarded like you ate the bosses sandwich once
 
can You please share some examples? In my company they told me, that because from next Year I won't be working with them, I'm not invited to the Christmas dinner. Because there will be some secret information about the next year plans. Next week (the same HR girl, who told me I'm not invited) came, and they told the external that he is invited to the dinner, and hope he will come.
So low level bully/revenge
 
War
@ntohl file a discrimination claim
 
I could, but I couldn't make myself pity to pick up that low level offense, to reply
I felt like they are mocking themself
 
War
12:47 PM
well yeh ... I had the manager give me no end of crap in my last job
 
don't want to get too explicit, but if I prove to them using X methods will save us 3 months time...
They would initially speak bad about it... and say it's rubbish (not strictly)
After a while they start using it and anything challenging comes up... they would say what a rubbish idea you came with & it keeps happening :D
Again I am not speaking strictly and they don't use same words as me
 
War
He would say stuff like "if you know better then put something together and present it to the team"
 
Mornin' folks
 
War
I actually did that, and he pulled me up on a discplinary despite the team going "wow that's way better than what we have right now"
@Kramb hi there :)
 
@Mathematics Look to the end of things. That's how I survived some of the awful places I worked. Look to the day you walk out of that place for the last time
 
War
12:49 PM
I use the time to prep my own stuff, buld up a port folio of how it should be done instead
when I left I told the head of HR for the parent company that the entire team would follow me ... I got some sarcastic email back ... they all left within 9 minths
the management there just didn't care ... this seems to be the american way
 
lol
 
War
attitude ... never had that from a UK manager
 
@War the amercian way...ironically is to be a dictatorship
 
many many manager bumped his/her head in a wrong choice of tech in the years, that is why they are so reluctant to try something new out, and try to "teach" everybody, that new tech you have choosen should be taken with a grain of salt.
 
War
@JABFreeware I know right ... all about their "freedom" and yet they have completely the opposite take on business
 
12:51 PM
I discovered the show Silicon Valley this weekend on HBO, and it couldn't be more accurate if it tried.
 
@Alex you are right, I am trying to stay low key though
 
@War not just about business but yeah. I wish I lived In Europe honestly
 
War
@ntohl in my case it wasn't new tech, we were already using WebAPI but they had some "api's" that were basically webforms accepting querystring values in a get request
I requested that we replaced those with webapi
and got pulled on it
 
@War thats not an API thats a disgrace
 
War
yeh that was our entire teams take on it
 
12:53 PM
@War I feel your pain. We're currently using Visual FoxPro...in 2017...and their idea for upgrading is a Windows Forms App in vb.net -_-
 
it drags down morale to use such shitty tech. At least it does if the team knows even a little bit about what they are doing
 
War
@Kramb W ... T ... F ... kill that guy, quick ... you'll be doing him a favour!
 
@JABFreeware That's normal HTML forms. Old-fashioned, but not terrible.
 
@Kramb how? It isn't true that You are saying. Right?
 
@Kramb Hey, did people complain when the swapped the Horse for the first automobile? No, no they did not
 
12:54 PM
@Kramb lol just googled it and i've never heard of it until now :D
 
I tried explaining the advantages of moving to web, and it was met with, "We've been working in Windows Forms Apps for a year and a half and were wrapping things up. We'll try web when we're done"
 
i mean 1984
 
@KendallFrey 1gb of memory was once a lot for a server too
 
@RoelvanUden Sure they did
 
@ntohl Yes. Unfortunately
 
War
12:54 PM
I would never demand my team use a specific tech ... I would just ask that they justify that it's both "fit for purpose" and "maintainable by everyone"
 
@RoelvanUden I would be very surprised if they didn't
 
@KendallFrey Fuck you and your logic.
 
I didn't even use logic, I straight up contradicted you.
 
War
@RoelvanUden I bet someone did, he was probably @Mathematics boss
 
And I'm doing it again.
Happy Monday.
 
12:55 PM
:-(
 
Hi, please, does anyone know how flag object is named? If I store flags IsMonster BreathesFire and Flies... how do I call that "flag composite"?
 
@KendallFrey those words do not go well together
 
> I would never demand my team use a specific tech ... I would just ask that they justify that it's both "fit for purpose" and "maintainable by everyone"
lmao
 
War
@Gonzi CreatureTypeFlags ? (maybe)
 
@SebastianL Your face doesn't go well together.
 
12:57 PM
Right now we have batch scripts that run FP programs. An ODBC connection is used to create a temporary table for each existing FP table. All rows are deleted from the existing tables and the temporary table rows are inserted into the existing tables.
 
@War - so you would just call it "flags"? somehow, that didn't occur to me :D THX
 
War
@Failsafe when proposing new tech I mean ... I don't force my decisions on them is what I meant to say lol
 
@KendallFrey ahh cmon use at least a little bit of creativity for a comeback
 
War
@Gonzi lol yeh ... call it what it is right?? it'll make the most sense that way
 
something something moms chin
 
12:58 PM
@SebastianL You do realize it's Monday right
 
sure but a monday is never a happy day
 
something something friday
 
@Failsafe This is just the most terrible thing ever.
Who said that?
 
Is there a way to determine the parent source of an ODBC connection?
 
@RoelvanUden look 10 lines above that post
 
1:05 PM
Ohhhh.
Yeah that's not smart. That's how you end up with VB.NET WebForms.
Because nobody is inclined to learn C# or MVC, because it is "difficult"
And why some companies dare not use LINQ, because "some don't understand"
 
@RoelvanUden HAHAHA. :') This makes me so sad
 
management decides that, it's hard...
 
Management deciding on technology? Wrong. Run!
 
usually programmers doen't have problem with trying something new out
it's usually decided at the borderline, who is programming and manager also. Like proj leader
 
I sense you don't Scrum :-P
 
1:08 PM
ALL scrum worked like that here before
there is always a way to sacrifice scrummishness to let someone manage programmers
 
The team should decide on the technology stack. The Product Owner should only concern himself/herself with the features and functionality, and not the technological choices. Thus, there shouldn't even be a 'manager' that 'decides on the stack'. Of course, the programming team should talk with other involved parties, e.g. devops, and weight the pros/cons.
 
@RoelvanUden Try that in a government setting. It doesn't work
 
There's a reason government doesn't work.
 
so apperently im not working today
 
Ha the government does everything ass backwards
 
1:12 PM
who knew
 
?@JABFreeware you on strike?
 
@juanvan new company I am working for fucked up my schedule
 
War
@RoelvanUden I hate corporate policy like that
it's the team leads responsibility to step u pthe teams knowledge if need be
 
ahh screw balls
 
@juanvan but strike sounds cooler so...sure
 
War
1:14 PM
it's not hard to teach devs how to use tech ... they are devs are all so it's not like they aren't interested
 
@RoelvanUden I think the idea is teh manager prevents the tech team from spending too much. Like not buying 3 servers when they can make do with 2.
 
War
@RoelvanUden been there too ... last gov job I had I was told "we are putting in a biztalk server" ... i was like "neat, what we gonna use it for?" to which the boss responded ... "dunno yet, but it's mandated so lets get rolling!"
I was like ... eh ??? ... that's all kinds of WTF!!!
 
@War thats the government for you. No one knows anything about why they are doing whats been ordered
but you dont dare ask questions because thats borderline insubordination
#freedom
 
@War preach it! lmfao. We have a parent IT agency over every shop in our agency. This parent agency has a Federal agency mandating it. So if something is passed from the top, by time it makes it to the individual shops, the answer is IDK that's just what "they who shall not be named" said to do.
 
War
all kinds of wrong
surely it would make more sense for gov to deploy data centers then build out web apps in those dat acenters
they already have the data centers
 
1:21 PM
@Kramb its the nsa isn't it?
 
War
so where's the centralised web apps team?
 
@JABFreeware I don't particularly think that a minor cost like that should influence the technological decisions. Servers are cheap, people wasting hours because the tech sucks balls is not.
 
@JABFreeware worse
 
War
instead they hand over to like 1000 individual IT teams <insert random, poorly specified requirement here>
 
@RoelvanUden I didn't say it was good just that its a reason for the evil
@Kramb what could be worse. You work for ISIS?
 
War
1:23 PM
they got it right when they built the data centers IMO ... now they just to actually use them for what data centers should be used for ... centralising and standardising the IT infrastructure that way each gov building only needs a network of computers that can access the net
 
@JABFreeware hahaha, no. I work for several mental health facilities. But the fed contract is through NG
@War We have that. It doesn't work if that team is full of morons. Our DIs must include hyperlinks to folder locations in which to copy data FROM, and then hyperlinks to folder to copy data TO.
 
@Kramb oh you mean the facilities that routinely get confidential info hacked?
 
@JABFreeware Not sure I follow, but I haven't heard about that in my state.
 
@Kramb medical records get hacked all the time
I assumed mental health was includedd
 
War
@Kramb yeh by having a single team that handles keeping the web farms up and then a second team that handles building apps on that farm, then replicate to the 3 data centers they have it's basically a done dea l... each council / whatever gov building literally just needs a domain controller "proxy" and a bunch of client machines
so internal IT teams are basically just 2 or 3 support guys, and dev is done for the whole of gov by one "actually clued out team"
instead they farm this crap out too 20k + offices each with 1 dev and then don't put them in touch with each other
 
1:28 PM
@War Yea that sounds about right. lmfao
 
War
I had to scream at my line manager to get to talk to the guy in the closest office to us when I was working for the local council IT team
 
jesus
 
War
and those guys were doing completely different towhat I was doing when I finally got there
and the next team across were doing completely different again
but all 3 teams were serving up the same functionality to their local community
why not just have 1 team for us all and push the functionality of that team to all 3 areas
it's not friggin rocket science!!!
 
That's the boat I'm in now. We're consolidating apps right now and every dev is in hyper mode because they want their apps to be the one the agency goes with.
 
@War you mad brah>?
 
War
1:31 PM
@JABFreeware funny thing is ... I ranted that hard whilst there that they actually started pushing the complaints up the chain
 
Right now, the app that the wigs are going with has a DB that mixes client data with user data. I'm not sure if this is actually a problem, but it hurts my soul to even think about mixing the two in a single app.
 
War
they came back down to a bunch of other teams who basically said "he's got a point"
then they did nothing to actually fix it
I recently went back in to my local council for something unrelated and low and behild ... they now have everything managed through a system for the whole of the south of england
wow that was hard wasn't it!!!
I was moaning about this 10 years ago
 
thats good. A squeaky wheel gets oiled



...or replaced
 
War
@Kramb if it were me making the call, I'd be ... fine, justify it ... whats great about your app and why will it scale for the greater needs?
 
War
1:34 PM
but I'd do it in 2 stages ... one to the "non IT boss" and one to the IT guys so it can be seen to work both from a business point of view and a technical one
IMO there's literally no accountability in gov these days
 
@War That was my concern, and I asked if we would be able to modify the app to fit our client's needs. They said yes, but you must submit changes to the committee to vote on whether or not it can be included.
 
War
everyone is just like "well ... uh ... reasons"
 
I said, what if the committee nixes it and it's something MY client's have asked for. Their response was, you have to build a new app for that.
 
Hello!
 
@Mr.Noob what do you want?
 
War
1:35 PM
@Kramb wow that's a great idea ... :facepalm:
 
@War not just government. All kinds of organisations, public, quango and private businesses, all decisions made by people who have no idea what they're doing
 
War
@Mr.Noob hi
 
from you nothing...
 
War
@TomW yeh like my ex boss!
 
@Mr.Noob what about my mom?
 
1:36 PM
@War worse thing is... who bullied ain't my boss but colleagues lol some junior and some senior but there moto was to play me down lol
 
@TomW The guy that knows the most "buzzwords" gets to call the shots hahaha
 
In a deindustrialising economy there has to be an oversupply of people in office work
 
War
@Mathematics that door swings both ways
 
This is the consequence - lots of empty suits
 
War
I have a habit f producing better quality work than people that bitch like that all the time then having my work speak for itself
those sorts are easy to better because they focus most their time on bitching whilst you're working
@Kramb seems like a legit way to run a business these days
maybe we should stop learning tech and start learning buzzwords only
 
1:39 PM
@Mathematics take that junior out and slap him one or twice
and then let him watch haskell tutorials
 
I use segoeui font in my wpf app on win 7, but on win 10 its looks different :(
is there something i can do about it?
 
@War agree it depends on scenarios
 
@War utilized dynamic deployment strategies using AGILE and Java EE. Converted RAID to SSD storage...
 
@Mr.Noob have them install the font
include it in the install
 
no segoeui on win 10?
 
1:41 PM
@Mr.Noob nope
 
War
@Proxy PMSL
 
@Proxy Lol
 
War
@JABFreeware you forgot "cloud, architecture" and "solution based approach"
 
@War yeah true that. Just become a public sector outsourcer and you don't have to ever actually produce anything
 
War
1:41 PM
words that make you sound like a big thinker
 
ffs, i will join SpaceX program and fly to Mars I can't take it anymore :\
 
War
@TomW you mean like a SAP rep?
 
@War oh right. And "load balanced"
 
@JABFreeware Make sure to include, streamlines data retrieval and allows for synergy within the company.
 
Just take their money and give back a bunch of spreadhseets of made up reasons you couldn't complete anything
 
War
1:42 PM
@JABFreeware "load balanced farm with clustering datacenter in the cloud"
 
@Kramb TILIDK buzzwords
 
War
@JABFreeware you gotta really cram them in there
 
@War its like a resume
 
War
@JABFreeware haha
 
@war pmsl?
 
1:43 PM
@TomW you mean do what the IRS does on my taxes?
 
huh never saw that one before
 
War
:)
 
 is a British expression similar to ROFLMAO
 
!!urban pmsl
 
1:44 PM
@RaisingAgent [pmsl](http://pmsl.urbanup.com/576068) possiably the worst and most unrealistic of internet jargon....
'pissing myself laughing' [\[sure u are\]](http://urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sure%20u%20are)
 
pmsl :D
 
is it sfw?
 
the internet?
 
if I ever own a company everything will be SFW. Want to share porn during work? Cool. All good as long as you still do your job.
...however I will compile a list of likely fetishes every employee has and email CCing everyone
who wants to join my company?
 
sure if i can test porn quality on work
 
1:48 PM
once on a lan party while we were playing quake 3, I left the porn of my friend rolling on the back, and put in on speakers. Just to split their focus.
 
@Proxy test porn quality?
please explain
 
i need to watch it 1 before i can share it
 
@JABFreeware Emails are limited to 102k chars apparently
 
@ntohl I once was gaming with a friend and knew on one screen they had a chat with me open. I sent multiple pictures of someone they were really into. It worked.
@RaisingAgent Part 1 of 10
 
@JABFreeware Sweet, I can find someone else who is also into weird stuff!
 
1:50 PM
@KendallFrey No one is as weird as you. Sorry.
 
@JABFreeware :D pmsl
 
@JABFreeware I can at least get close...
 
Fact no.1 : There is porn version for everything.
 
@KendallFrey like last night?
 
sick burn
@ntohl That's #34, you dunderhead
 
1:52 PM
Fact no.2 Kendall's mom got close last night
 
@KendallFrey I'm checking at the moment for "haskell porn"
first result: functional pornography
 
@ntohl That would be the (.) (.) function
 
Haskore
 
Which I've actually used once
 
first result was Rewrite porn detection algorithm to C++ using OpenCV
a job someone is paying $350 for
 
1:54 PM
$350 to find porn? Just use Google.
 
@KendallFrey Bing
 
touche
 
Bing for porn Google for all else
I bet its some weird messed up parents wanting to know if their kid is watching porn
and the kid is smart enough to get around the filters
so hire an indian to fix everything
but even his ingenious copy pasta solution wont defeat live disc porn viewing
...not that I am speaking from experience or anything
 
web filters are pretty useless. I know from experience.
 
just detect every time video playing and take screen shot
same as windows know how to not show screen saver when video playing but not audio only
 
1:57 PM
@Mr.Noob Do you want to see what little billy is video chatting about with his gf?
I don't.
 
Use whatever tech defeats screen capture when gaming
 
but his parents want to know if he watch
 
@KendallFrey or pop in a live disc / virtual machine
 
@Mr.Noob I'm pretty sure it doesn't look at your screen, it's smarter than that
 
1:59 PM
my screen saver is literally a bunch of videos playing in sequence
but in a very clever way
 

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