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9:00 PM
good morning, 2 minutes ago called
 
> TypeError: it is undefined
 
Opening issues in my projects so that I can feel the pleasure of closing them later.
 
@Morwenn fun fun
 
@набиячлевэлиь Type "Google Translate" into "translation party". Makes Bing's head explode ("problem with Bing. Probably over limit").
 
9:01 PM
@Morwenn sounds like something @elyse could learn from.
 
user1804599
I do that too.
 
@TonyTheLion Haha, right (fold) :D
 
@Morwenn More like s/can.*/have another contribution for the streak/, amirite
 
@AndyProwl there. It's incomplete and could be clearer and places, but...
 
@набиячлевэлиь you're wrong :P
 
9:02 PM
@TonyTheLion I did nuthin'!
I do that too
 
I've even an issue tagged because fuck it.
 
I am wondering if I should split the post into two ones
One doing a bartek-style introduction of existentials
and the other showing the actual thing
 
@Morwenn Literally "help me, help yourself"
 
@Morwenn I do that for practice sometimes too. I'm sure I'll eventually write a bug, and when it happens I want to be ready!
 
yeah I know guys you want me to show the actual thing
it's certainly worth a star
 
9:04 PM
@JerryCoffin It's more for design decisions when I'm not sure they're good. That way I still have something to remind me why I chose a design rather than another.
 
> I drank sake so I chose this instead of that, which I'd've chosen if I drank white spirit
I cannot into past tense
 
@набиячлевэлиь I don't think I'd be able to make decisions anymore if I drank white spirit though.
 
@AlexM. so are you actually going to share the code?
 
@BartekBanachewicz nevarrrr
 
9:06 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I gotta write the decoding part a bit, and then refactor it
 
@набиячлевэлиь I believe the past tense would be: "I fucked up".
 
@AlexM. do you have it on some public repo anyway?
 
@Bartek thanks. Will take a look when I get some free time after the talks
 
@BartekBanachewicz nope it's something I write on some site like topcoder or w/e
 
9:07 PM
@набиячлевэлиь I'm Brittanish.
I cannot into slave.
 
@Bartek Is it cool if GF names her next horse Bartek?
 
@AndyProwl Assume it's terrible and just tell me where.
 
I am much offend
 
@JohanLarsson sure, lol
the name is older than the western civilization
 
9:09 PM
I'll ping you if it happens, she saw your name and liked it.
 
Seriously, one of these days, I'll end up using « cannot into something » thinking it's proper English.
 
@JohanLarsson Liked it or its owner
 
and/or
 
@Morwenn its propper Anglisch
 
@JohanLarsson hah cool
 
@AlexM. If you got a local install you'd get interactive shell and tracing in GHCi :)
in contrary to gdb, it actually works pretty well for me
 
This does make it look as though they had an AST though:
 
@BartekBanachewicz I have ghci and leksah but their platform also has all the unit test stuff installed and shit and I only need to press 2 buttons
 
How's Leksah working for you?
I found it, unfortunately, pretty crappy.
@AndyProwl I have no idea how not having it could possibly make compilation easier
 
9:19 PM
I don't know how to use it yet
 
I personally stick to composable tools :) So just shell and a text editor and a web browser
C++ is annoying with that setup for me, but somehow I don't feel it's problematic in Haskell
 
dang it socket api uses exceptions
 
@Bartek yesterday we were discussing lack of AST in VC++. I was saying I thought they got one already, but people said no. This guy's sort of implying they do have one thougg
 
user1804599
memcpy and memset are really those things that need template wrappers with static assertions in them.
 
9:23 PM
Gotta go ask at then end
 
@AndyProwl They have one now.
 
@elyse instead they're things that need to die and replaced by std::move/std::copy/std::copy_backward etc.
 
user1804599
no
 
@AndyProwl who's the guy
 
user1804599
memcpy_cast is very useful.
 
9:28 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Well, it was how C was designed to be compiled- just go over each thing and spew out code for it as they go along.
 
@elyse oh yeah. no worries
Have you looked at buffer_cast<> in Boost Asio?
 
@elyse Can be a std::copy_cast without issue.
 
@sehe Neil MacSomething
 
Works on static analysis tools for VS
Well, for VC++
 
9:30 PM
oooh cool
 
MacIntosh, ironically
 
try :: Exception e => IO a -> IO (Either e a)
this is great
 
@Puppy thought so
But then sehe's question of why don't we have proper 2 phase lookup does not have any good answer at this point
Maybe they have some AST-ish thing but not a full-fledged one
 
@AndyProwl It's coming (at least in theory)
I'd suggest that it's simply not finished yet.
 
oh, okay
 
9:32 PM
@AndyProwl IIRC they said that they were working on fixing both the two-phase lookup and the preprocessor.
 
So they're working on it
 
They will first fix the preprocessor.
 
this code's so fucky
pls help
 
Maybe not. But at east they plan to fix it someday.
 
Because apparently it's more important than two-phase lookup or expression SFINAE.
 
user1804599
dat puzzle
 
what's wrong with the preprocessor again
 
user1804599
SethBling is insane.
 
:25898324 Yes. I blame the function signature @Bartek posted.
 
@AndyProwl lol
 
9:34 PM
Excalibur SFINAE
 
@BartekBanachewicz dunno exactly
@AndyProwl will people get scared away if I include Haskell function signatures if the functors and monads talk?
:D
 
@BartekBanachewicz I don't know exactly, but it seems that they require an additional level of preprocessor indirection for token pasting tricks to work.
 
^ yeah
 
@elyse More like overly genious
 
@Griwes Not really.
 
9:35 PM
There's some weirdness that's "fixed" by another layer of indirection...
 
@Griwes puppy-like zealots will certainly rage
 
@Morwenn I was asking Andy specifically, sorry. :P
 
user1804599
Excalibur ctags.
 
also if that's C++ community they have a different meaning of Functor remember
 
@JohanLarsson that's win, no
 
9:36 PM
@Griwes « people » being general, I felt free to answer.
 
@BartekBanachewicz And functional zealots will rage at what I will be saying. Guess my primary goal today is to enrage zealots.
 
@sehe dunno, did not look fake
 
where are you both again
 
CppCon.
 
geographically
 
9:37 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Probably doesn't--any more. When you were trying to squeeze an operating system, compiler, and all the compiler's data into, say, 256Kb of RAM it was a whole different story. Eliminating that immense amount of data (might easily be 128 whole kilobytes!) occupied by the AST made a lot of the other parts of life a whole lot easier...
 
Seattle, or close by.
 
Bellevue, WA.
 
@Griwes I've been at a talk with Haskell signatures and people were mostly ok with it
 
@Griwes what will you be saying?
@Griwes oh cool
 
Or rather nobody said they were not ok
Also depends how complex those types are
 
9:37 PM
@BartekBanachewicz "Fuck you! And you! And fuck you too!"
 
@BartekBanachewicz basically that people have a choice, and don't have to religiously follow some rules, especially in a multi-paradigm language like C++.
 
@sehe you forgot "Fuck C++!"
 
Are you done with the slides yet? :D The talk is in two hours
 
@Griwes Wow. This will raise some controversy
 
9:38 PM
@AndyProwl I guess >>= is most complicated... (>>=) :: m a -> (a -> m b) -> mb.
 
@AndyProwl you gonna record all that right
 
@AndyProwl live tweet it. And use periScope or whatnot
 
@AndyProwl For the first one, mostly yes.
 
@Griwes that should be fine
 
Probably will do some minor adjustements here and there.
 
user406009
9:39 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I think the conference records all the talks.
 
@JerryCoffin yeah, but then again we're talking about a 2015 C++ compiler :S
 
user406009
Takes like 2 months for the videos to get out though.
 
Remember, the talking will be more important than slides in that one.
 
bummer
@Griwes what's in the other one?
 
@sehe @Bartek no idea how to live stream it. I can't tweet too much or stuff cause I want to actually listen
 
9:39 PM
There's not a lot of code that I'll be showing there :P
 
I'll post a few things here though I guess
 
user406009
Just wait for the videos to come out guys.
 
two months is eternity
Node.js will release at least 5 major versions by then
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, but keep in mind: Microsoft's current compiler traces all the way back to MS C 3.0 on MS-DOS. Although it's been obvious for years now that they should have an AST, they've never had the luxury of starting over, so it still follows a lot of the same structure it has for decades now.
 
9:41 PM
@BartekBanachewicz First one (the one which will be recorded) is about some ideas governing functional programming - where the points condensed way too much will be "pass your data explicitly" and "do stuff genericly"; the second one will not (as far as I know) be recorded, and will go about functors and monads (building on the second point of the first talk).
Oh.
I must remember to say "functional programming is not about functions, the same way as OOP is not about objects".
 
it kinda is about functions
@Griwes don't get what you mean by that
 
@BartekBanachewicz ...and after five versions, nothing of consequence will have changed at all.
 
@JerryCoffin pff, that's obvious. Since I started working with it professionally I can't not joke about it, though.
 
@BartekBanachewicz OOP is not about objects, I hope we fully agree there
 
well, actually
 
9:43 PM
Don't forget to say what they are about
 
@Griwes what is it about for you?
@AndyProwl burritos
 
Because those statements alone irritate people
Unless you explain them and put them into contexy
 
@BartekBanachewicz there's a "monads are not like burritos" slide in that presentation
 
*context
 
@BartekBanachewicz actually... values and data flow :P
 
9:45 PM
@Griwes I think that it pretty clearly is about objects.
 
@Griwes that's not specific to OOP
 
@AndyProwl If I were a real boy, my nose woul... I'd be irritated right now!
 
@BartekBanachewicz No, I meant FP.
OOP is about message passing.
 
@Griwes then we disagree
 
user406009
I thought OOP was about combining data and code together.
 
9:45 PM
@Lalaland ye
 
@Griwes FP is about objects. OOP is about indirection.
 
it's about passing the logic with the data
so once you have some data, you ask it how it should be processed
 
@JerryCoffin isn't that like, almost the same thing I said? :P
 
Which paradigm is about actually getting things done?
 
@Morwenn every one of them, duh.
 
9:46 PM
@Morwenn shut-up-and-code oriented programming
 
@Griwes I have no idea. I just said something randomly irrational.
 
yet right!
 
OOP is about your mom. FP is about my mom. OOP is way easier to get, abuse and expoit
9
 
:D
 
rip me
 
9:47 PM
I mean the existential example is the perfect showcase of OOP
when you want to have an instance of logic that needs its own state to work
each type of state is specific to a particular implementation, so you bundle those together and hide under an existential
in a way, OOP can be treated as a subset of FP
 
Yeah, that's an agent - but then there's means of interacting between things like that. Be it a function call, or actual message sent over network, whatever - messages are the part that glues it together
 
@Griwes that's completely irrelevant.
FP code also has to communicate
be it via function calls or messages
 
@AndyProwl have a cookie
> Some users did try to delete parts of my answer, and render it incomplete. Please do not do it. Any part is relevant to my answer. If you disagree, go to the comments section. I hope you respect my wishes. Thanks! o boi
 
FP eats data, spews data back. OOP throws data around between entities with state.
At least that's how I see it.
 
@Griwes FP is like ))<>((
 
9:50 PM
@Borgleader
-14
Q: HOW TO WRITE A CODE WHERE THE OUT PUT GIVES YOU THE AVERAGE OF THE EVEN NUMBERS IN THE LIST

Mikei need help writing a code for java where the return of the number is the average of all the even numbers in the list 3391, 3391, 3391, 0, -1036, -3676, -4840, 3798, 0, 0, -1350, -1350, 4320, -265, -265, 3222, 3222, -77, 0, 0, -3344, -3018, 1479, -2085, -2085, -2085, -20...

 
user1804599
 
@sehe no, that's OOP, throwing shit around
 
@sehe FP is like a burrito. OOP is like a Gyro. I like a good kebab.
 
To me OOP is about dependency management and encapsulation. Saying it's not about object has some truth in it but unless you explain it it really just looks like one of those impressive statements to shock the audience and blow away all they know.
 
@Griwes OOP doesn't need to be stateful
 
9:51 PM
your mother is like a burrito
 
consider
 
done
 
struct Data { int x; string toString() { return lexical_cast<string>(x); }};
that's clearly an object
 
but that's not really object oriented code
 
That's a type :v
 
9:52 PM
@Griwes Your mother is more like a burro. Only more stubborn and not as cute.
 
That's just... code.
FP also has objects; what's your point? :P
 
ITT: No True Scotsman
 
@Griwes it bundles data and logic together. It's an object. So it's object-oriented.
 
@JohanLarsson ? ?? ? ???
 
9:53 PM
@BartekBanachewicz lol
 
4 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
in a way, OOP can be treated as a subset of FP
 
@BartekBanachewicz Everything is object-oriented
 
except no.
 
Okay, so here we are, Bartek trying to tell us that FP rules all.
I'm out at this point.
 
@набиячлевэлиь just a dumb wrapper class, would have been really ugly without the C#6 stuff
 
9:54 PM
@Griwes you were never in, considering that everything you brought into the discussion where your preconceived ideas about OOP.
 
and, of course, "no because no"
 
er, that's all that any of us bring into the discussion; ideas we've had.
 
@BartekBanachewicz s/OOP/FP/ and that'll perfectly describe you
 
2 mins ago, by Griwes
That's just... code.
 
9:55 PM
Barket stahp
 
bartekplonktime
too much to still do today to waste more time on this
Also hey
 
What's wrong with public class Test { public int foo() { return -18.3550295858; } }? — sehe 11 secs ago
 
I just hope someone listening to the talk will have the balls to point out his bullshit.
 
I said I wanted to enrage zealots
2
 
9:55 PM
Links about VS static analysis:
 
did I just achieve that?!
 
@Griwes you're out there being dumb. That can be annoying, yes
dunno what else can be added here.
 
I'm annoyed by people trying to sell me their ideas of "paradigms" as universal truths
 
9:57 PM
@JohanLarsson pretty dense. And sooooo much exposed details
 
user1804599
Flaccid penis is nice.
 
user1804599
Erect penis is nicer.
 
You mean the JS library? :G
 
No penis also isn't bad
 
note how I said "in a way, OOP can be treated as a subset of FP"
 
9:57 PM
I have preconceived ideas about your mom too.
 
@sehe Don't understand the dense remark. Don't understand the details remark.
 
user1804599
> I didn't have any idea what to do, but I knew I needed a click
 
@BartekBanachewicz what makes you so entitled to crush a talk you didn't see yet (?)
 
user1804599
well then adding a click is an idea of what you have to do.
 
@elyse So I put a click.
 
9:58 PM
@sehe I've managed to talk with the author you know.
 
@JohanLarsson good. then we're even
 
@elyse guess what I read instead of 'click'
 
@BartekBanachewicz I've missed that happening
 
@AndyProwl Clock?
 
Barket stop ffs
 
9:58 PM
@sehe I'm 3/3 now
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl keming
 
@Morwenn Right!
 
@набиячлевэлиь oh get off me already
 
@elyse Nope
 
@BartekBanachewicz runs away
 
9:59 PM
so ugly hacks just to make a makefile compile all source files within a subdirectory and create a library >_> but hey, "it works"
 
@набиячлевэлиь thank you
 
@Gizmo Makefiles are the simplest thing
 

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