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8:02 AM
DERPCON (Degrees of Edge-Reachable Personal CONnection)
 
@BartekBanachewicz vOv maybe you should have a serious play around with perl. Yes it can be ugly as shit if done badly, so can any language, but done well, and making the same presumptions about knowing the language you do when showing the 'beauty of Haskell' it's very easy to read.
 
@thecoshman and?
this sentence stopped half-way
The language is poorly designed, full of quirks, slow, superseded in every area by better alternatives, and fit for trivial text processing tasks at best.
Why would I spend time learning it if I can learn one of the more modern, better languages?
 
> Perl
> designed
 
user1804599
@TLP, sub two {} is BEGIN { *two = sub {} }, so it captures over the $var that existed when it was compiled. my is basically a new that occurs on scope exit, so two's $var becomes distinct from one's $var after the first run of $one. — ikegami Apr 17 '12 at 16:03
 
user1804599
Amazing.
 
8:08 AM
Also, you're completely misrepresenting the "beauty of haskell", but I presume it's just because you know Perl but don't know Haskell. Beauty of it doesn't lie in clever one-liners or a lot of symbols.
It's in the clever abstraction structure based on mathematical primitives that still make sense even if pushed outside of abstract contexts and every consequence of basing on that.
 
user1804599
You are completely misguided about Perl.
 
Ven
if beauty lied in symbols, haskell would definitely beat perl
 
user1804599
Perl is not about one-liners with lots of symbols.
 
@BartekBanachewicz seems to be all people like to show off about it vOv
 
@rightfold everything you've managed to show us in Perl so far are either those or ambiguously parsed programs
 
8:10 AM
@BartekBanachewicz s/Perl/Haskell/
 
@thecoshman It's hard to show off Applicative Functors.
 
user1804599
I doubt you've ever read code from a well-written large Perl project.
 
@Ven quality of quantity
 
I doubt anyone
 
@rightfold s/ Perl//
 
8:11 AM
if f <$> g is just a "one liner with lots of symbols for you" then you're totally not getting it
 
user1804599
Or read a book about how to write good Perl code.
 
because the essence doesn't lie in the symbol of applicative application at all
@thecoshman Also you haven't answered my question.
 
Perl is crap
 
project size is inversely proportional to chance of quality
@BartekBanachewicz there was one?
 
5 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
Why would I spend time learning it if I can learn one of the more modern, better languages?
 
user1804599
8:12 AM
So that you can argue about it with arguments.
 
argument argue(argument a, argument b);
 
:24067050 And I forget you fail to see the irony when you complain about adhominems being used against you.
 
sorry it's been happening way too often and trips me way too early now.
hence deleted.
 
user1804599
@TonyTheLion should be a set of arguments.
 
user1804599
And return void because of CQS.
 
8:15 AM
@BartekBanachewicz I openly admit that I mock Haskell mostly just to wind you up. If I wanted to seriously talk about it, I'd have to go learn it. I don't think I really know any language well enough to talk about them in any real technical detail.
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz applicative parsers
 
baddesign.txt
 
> CQS is a London-based asset management firm.
 
@Ven why not monadic parsers vOv
 
8:15 AM
You however seem more than happy to have skimmed over some Perl and set your opinion in stone.
 
user1804599
Command–query separation (CQS) is a principle of imperative computer programming. It was devised by Bertrand Meyer as part of his pioneering work on the Eiffel programming language. It states that every method should either be a command that performs an action, or a query that returns data to the caller, but not both. In other words, Asking a question should not change the answer. More formally, methods should return a value only if they are referentially transparent and hence possess no side effects. == Connection with design by contract == Command–query separation is particularly well suited...
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz because monadic parsers don't help showing off applicative parsers \o/
 
@Ven oh you're the funny guy
:D
 
user1804599
State-mutating subroutines should at most return status reports.
 
@TonyTheLion trust you to be looking to work at some place that manages asstits.
 
8:16 AM
all monadic parsers are applicative parsers
we're in 2015 after all
 
user1804599
No.
 
> asstits
 
user1804599
It's the other way around.
 
@rightfold argument is composite pattern object :P
 
user1804599
All applicative parsers are monadic parsers.
 
8:17 AM
@TonyTheLion oh come on! I did it for the funny!
 
@thecoshman what are asstits?
 
user1804599
Applicative parsers need not involve monad-specific operations.
 
a monadic parser implies operation in a monad context
 
@TonyTheLion ass t its
it's a god damn crappy pun ok :'(
 
@thecoshman what "some Perl" should I skim over to change it? There's not "some Perl". There's "p much every single thing I hear about this joke of a language".
 
8:18 AM
@thecoshman ok
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz I'll take that as a compliment :P
 
It's almost like reason and common sense were optional when designing a language.
 
> Remember that it is the monad that enables the magic.
proven that monads are magic
:P
 
enables != is a
 
user1804599
Friendship is a Monad
 
Ven
8:20 AM
OH: me in another country "I'd like a burrito" "what's a burrito?" "well, it's a bit like a monad..."
 
Friendship is a monoid in the category of endofunctors
 
Is IEnumerable magic
I think it is
it allows you to enumerate various things
 
@BartekBanachewicz so magical
 
@TonyTheLion so deep innit
 
8:20 AM
@BartekBanachewicz very
 
IEnumerable is an interface for enumeration
omg interface
omg enumeration
hard words
 
I just love when people do that.
 
@BartekBanachewicz seen anything from not hear? @rightfold isn't fanatical, so only posts what he finds amusing, which good code isn't.
 
Oh wait, except they say "omg endofunctor" and "omg monoid"
 
Ven
8:22 AM
And here I am, wondering why the IT world conflates "abstraction" with "indirection"
 
Yet another reason why not to ever set foot on the USA soil.
 
user1804599
@Ven abstraction does imply indirection however.
 
@thecoshman I did. Hell, I've even written some Perl code in my life
 
user1804599
Was that before or after you learned how to write proper Perl code?
 
@wilx hahahahaha
 
8:24 AM
There's no way to write "proper Perl code"
 
lol defending shitty languages
 
it's an oxymoron
 
Nerds are the worst
 
@wilx not sure if it makes it better or worse that they failed to kill him with a shot to the head...
 
@buttifulbuttefly I wanted to start that line with LMAO and then I self censored remembering how sensitive people here are recently. And you go all "hahahahaha" about it, you insensitive clod!
 
8:25 AM
@rightfold I've opened that book and I'm reading about the 13th way to define string values.
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus Lekker! Nu heb ik zin in een worst.
 
> If the identifier begins with whitespace, that same whitespace must be present before the ending delimiter—that is, <<' END_HEREDOC'>> needs a leading space before END_HEREDOC. Yet if you indent the identifier, Perl will not remove equivalent whitespace from the start of each line of the heredoc. Yes, that's less than ideal.
> Yes, that's less than ideal.
> less than ideal
 
@wilx Ah yes, of course the title of the article omits the important part where they were responding to "officer-needs-help".
 
@CatPlusPlus but hey this language is exciting
> You may nest loops within other loops:
 
Ven
vOv
bartek trying perl. fun
 
8:28 AM
@Griwes What? Nothing excuses them from shooting at the dude for holding a towel or having it wrapped around his hand.
 
@Ven can't wait to try nesting loops within other loops
I always wanted to do that
> Effective programs need effective (simple, fast, efficient, easy to use) ways of representing their data.
 
user1804599
I don't see what's the problem with allowing nested loops.
 
who minds "correct" or "reasonable"
 
@BartekBanachewicz What has that to do with Perl?
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz I don't want to be part of that ;-). you guys figure it out
 
8:29 AM
> You may (...) but you'll confuse yourself if you do all of that..
 
Ven
I like perl(5), but mostly for its ideas
 
@wilx apparently it allows that
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes? And?
 
@BartekBanachewicz really not that big a deal, and really down to bad programming if it is a big deal
 
@Ven funny, I thought that its ideas are precisely the thing to hate it for
@wilx they felt it's important to mention
@thecoshman lol what is a big deal then
 
8:30 AM
did you know that Haskell doesn't prevent you having a 1K line function! it's TERRIBLE!!!
 
I'm scrolling through this manual and so far the biggest feature is "you can declare strings in 13 ways, but some are a bit broken"
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz well, the execution is sometimes lacking. regexps are a good idea. unicode support came to perl very early
 
can you just point me to a section which showcases something more interesting than nesting loops
 
user1804599
Haskerl
 
8:31 AM
Thus all of these are equivalent:

    my $billion = 1000000000;
    my $billion = 1_000_000_000;
    my $billion = 10_0_00_00_0_0_0;
rubs forehead
 
user1804599
That's a good feature.
 
0_0
 
Important things
 
@CatPlusPlus very
 
Ven
8:33 AM
_ is good _ :P
 
@wilx fuck sensitive people in the eyes with needlesticks
and red chili
 
@buttifulbuttefly maybe not in the eye -_-
 
You don't tell me what to do!
 
@buttifulbuttefly You were pretty sensitive yesterday about me saying "Nice."
 
@wilx WOW that's fucking rude
 
Ven
8:34 AM
Nice is a beautiful city
 
user1804599
I want food.
 
> Again, weigh the benefits of clarity versus the benefits of conciseness.
 
@Ven Yes one of Africa's northernmost cities
 
@buttifulbuttefly Nice.
 
I already did and it spells "don't use perl" clearly
 
8:34 AM
@buttifulbuttefly I'm ot
 
Do you pronounce 0x2A as "two aye" or "twenty aye" ?
 
What are collars but a miserable pile of Perls
 
> Many Perl programmers refer to iteration as foreach loops, but Perl treats the names foreach and for interchangeably. The parenthesized expression determines the type and behavior of the loop; the keyword does not.
 
debate now
 
@Mr.kbok zéro ixe deu a
 
8:35 AM
this is a very useful feature that introduces even more confusion
 
@Mr.kbok "2 A", clearly
 
> Perl 5.10 introduced a new construct named given as a Perlish switch statement. It didn't quite work out; given is still experimental, but it's less buggy in 5.18 than it was in any previous version of Perl.
@thecoshman
help
 
But then you have twenty eight, twenty nine, two aye ... two eff, thirty
 
it's too hilarious
 
user1804599
Why?
 
Ven
8:36 AM
@BartekBanachewicz my book says "use foreach to foreach". funny that the manual doesn't :)
 
user1804599
Experimental features being buggy is very usual.
 
Instead of reading about stupid languages you can think of funny content for a mud
 
@CatPlusPlus stab avoidance device
or bust
 
@Mr.kbok no you don't. When reading Hex values, you never read "20" as 'twenty', it's two zero
you read the individual digits
just like in binary you read one zero, not 'ten'
 
Maybe you do, wierdo
 
8:37 AM
@rightfold I can imagine GADTs beign buggy
 
@thecoshman I read hex 20 as '0', 'x', "20".
 
only when reading base ten do you say anything other than the digits.
 
but seriously "switch"
 
how bad must your language be for it to make switch experimental and buggy
 
8:38 AM
> very racist line
wow fuck off
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz reminder: perl gained sub signatures last year
 
Q: Are people retarded?
A: Yes.
5
 
@buttifulbuttefly ahahahhahaha
 
@Griwes you freak
 
@thecoshman Thank you.
 
8:40 AM
still can't find anything of interest
there's example code
it's an imperative program with all of weird symbols in variable names
I also have no idea which parts of it are strings and which are indentifiers because there's 13 way to define strings
 
"Weird symbols", said Haskell programmer.
 
it's also terribly structured
 
@BartekBanachewicz now now, I already said that you can't complain about it presuming you know the language as you wouldn't stand for the same being used against Haskell
 
@rightfold is that the best of "good perl code" you have
 
with it's crazy : and -> and | all over the place.
 
8:42 AM
@thecoshman at least it doesn't force your variables to start with a dollar sign, jesus
very readability
: is list append and | and -> aren't operators
well -> is a type-level operator but then again
 
Fuck ADL sometimes
 
let's look at this textbook perl program
sub rock
    {
        print "I chose rock.  ";

        for (shift)
        {
            when (/paper/)    { say 'You win!' };
            when (/rock/)     { say 'We tie!'  };
            when (/scissors/) { say 'I win!'   };
            default           { say $confused  };
        }
    }

    sub paper
    {
        print "I chose paper.  ";

        for (shift)
        {
            when (/paper/)    { say 'We tie!'  };
            when (/rock/)     { say 'I win!'   };
            when (/scissors/) { say 'You win!' };
 
Who caaaares
 
user1804599
eww duplicate code
 
@BartekBanachewicz lol, learn the language or stfu, or admit you are just taking the piss and know nothing.
@BartekBanachewicz I didn't say there were, just that they are all over the place :P
 
8:45 AM
@thecoshman I know enough to state this language is a joke without learning it in depth, can your mind comprehend that?
It's broken BY DESIGN.
There's no "learn it" phase.
 
@BartekBanachewicz vOv Haskell is a joke, it's useless BY DESIGN.
 
You don't have to learn to ride a bike with square wheels to realize it's broken.
 
You're all ridiculous nerds
 
any way
 
and you write O(n^15n) code
 
8:46 AM
@thecoshman why don't we compare Perl and haskell design then
 
Now dance
 
@CatPlusPlus ;_;
 
moving on to interesting things
 
oh wait you've no idea about either Perl or Haskell design in the first place
 
> Perl
> design
let's not get ridiculous
 
8:47 AM
is there anyone even remotely competent with perl so that he could point me to a place where I could find a piece of code in that language that isn't absolute shit?
 
@BartekBanachewicz me. And no: you can't.
 
As much as I don't enjoy these stupid pseudodiscussions about language design focusing on dumbest things
 
I swear I sometimes think those people are just braindead and would defend a fucking piece of rock as a programming language as much as they defend perl
 
if you have N values you can read, and M properties you can set, and a subset of the N values can be used to determine what is good... more or less talking neural net... or is that just me? Opposed to using some mad ass duzzy logic system?
 
"but why don't you learn it look it's a rock"
"but what can you do with it" - "oh I dunno look at things people do with rocks"
"but it's retarded, heavy, and it's not a programming language in the first place" - "stop hating you just don't know it"
 
8:49 AM
Actually poeple do neat things with rocks
 
I guess you could use Perl code to write hard drives with random garbage as well
 
Also I have no idea why ADL is insisting on picking that particular overload and not that other
 
Because it hates you
 
wish I could find the instrumental of this in high quality on youtube :<
it's so good
 
@buttifulbuttefly fairly sure that look up is dependent on the argument
 
8:50 AM
I swear every time I discuss Pearl I get dumber because my brain tries to kill itself when faced with that stupidity.
 
Because it's a dumb idea
 
user1804599
fuck Jinja2
 
samurai champloo is my fav anime
 
I didn't watch it
just listening to nujabes' music
 
user1804599
Mako is also shit.
 
8:51 AM
good music, good animation, funny characters, not that serious
 
user1804599
I should write a preprocessor.
 
@buttifulbuttefly Are you using Visual Studio?
 
yeah... I think I need to start learning up on ANN and genetic algo's...
 
@Mr.kbok Sadly
 
8:54 AM
I love importing data from databases that miss foreign keys in places
 
interview on tuesday
with the perf monitoring guys /cc @Cat
 
user1804599
Oh right, Python has significant indentation, making code generation a difficult job.
 
user image
2
look
they seem to know about their business
 
could be a beastly neural net though... it needs to look not just at current values... but historic data (well, it will probably help it learn...) and it needs to be able to make a decision about what to change to improve the fitness... and also work out how accurate it's prediction was about the change... well... I think it should...
vOv I have no idea what I'm doing
 
Join the club
 
8:56 AM
@rightfold and the language not worth looking at :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz butt monitoring is what I do when I go outside my room
 
user1804599
oh look how fun
 
user1804599
I have to implement the same formula in both Python and JavaScript oh the web what a wonderful platform.
 
user1804599
Maybe I should look into Emscripten and SWIG and use C++.
 
@buttifulbuttefly try out Embarcadero. You'll never complain about VS again.
 
9:05 AM
isn't that for delphi
 
Xeo
@buttifulbuttefly SSCCE or bust
 
@AlexM. originally yes. Then they bought Borland/Codegear C++ Builder and messed it up, prentending they can do C++ as well.
 
@rightfold just make a Javascript based Erlang node :P
Erlang all the things!
 
user1804599
can't
 
can't... or won't?
 
9:10 AM
@BartekBanachewicz I'm sure it has nothing to do with a predilection with victimization and dramatization :)
Good morning
 
user1804599
@thecoshman Did I say "won't"? No, so not "won't".
 
user1804599
You can only communicate between client and server through HTTP and Erlang nodes don't use HTTP for communicating.
 
@buttifulbuttefly erm because it's in the associated namespace for the argument type... :)
@CatPlusPlus They're not nerds. IMO.
Nerds are about factual information a lot more
 
@rightfold don't or can't? :P
 
user1804599
They don't, so you can't.
 
9:15 AM
srsly just 2 stars for butt monitoring but twice more for cicada's inept jokes
cmon people it's funny :<
 
user1804599
Also, what you are suggesting is dangerous.
 
> Further, it has been shown that the use of irrational values for weights results in a machine with super-Turing power.
oooh, super-Turing
@rightfold what am I suggesting? :P
 
user1804599
Running an Erlang node on the client's machine that connects with a node running on the server.
 
user1804599
Which is incredibly dangerous for obvious reasons.
 
Also pointless
 
9:21 AM
@buttifulbuttefly Even when they hinted that phonetically it would be racist slur, I couldn't figure it out. I though maybe Apaches were supposed to be offended. "Pakis" - never heard before.
People should get out of their self-centered holes
@AlexM. the cloud-to-butt is very meh and old. Cicada's joke isn't not a joke. Which is why it's actually worth a star
 
@rightfold yeah, don't do that, are you crazy?
 
@sehe It's a top-level function, is there no way to have ADL select it without :: prefix?
 
@sehe wait so it isn't a real mistake on their site?
 
@AlexM. What inept jokes?
 
BARTEK YOU LIAR
 
9:22 AM
@buttifulbuttefly SSCCE/link?
 
I'll try to make one butt then again MSVC...
 
@AlexM. ...
 
user1804599
@Ven Can I read S-expressions at runtime in Racket?
 
> It is too late to undo this operation
fucking...
 
@rightfold Erm. Yes!?
 
9:23 AM
@sehe I thought it was a translation mistake or sth
 
@AlexM. lel
 
user1804599
@sehe Nice.
 
@rightfold (just guessing of course. I can't see how not)
@AlexM. oh. Well. That's not inept.
 
9:31 AM
wait 4chan can create a project and get somewhere, but Lounge<C++> cannot?
 
4chan can create things alright
they also made a full commercial game
(that I know of, there might be more)
 
@fredoverflow they also use batch files as build systems
and commit .exes to repo
 
@TonyTheLion 4chan has made many games too
browser extensions too
 
9:40 AM
@TonyTheLion What is this?
@BartekBanachewicz lol
 
Welp 6 hours already logged
 
user1804599
Nevermind.
 
It'll be the happiest day of my life when this fucking project ends
 
@Xeo That seems... actually far more readable than brainfuck. lol
 
9:43 AM
@CatPlusPlus or the saddest ...
depends on how it ends
 
user1804599
Ugh, LFE has no special syntax for tuples.
 
> "I'm just not seeing it. I don't think most humans want to look stupid," says Deus Ex designer Warren Spector.
wrt VR
 
That's not an answer. Consider asking a new question, perhaps linking to this question (because it's referring to different versions of the tools) — sehe 8 secs ago
 
@AlexM. have he tried turning it on
 
9:54 AM
@Xeo ergh... these get tedious
@Griwes vOv use > < ^ v O I F B
 
This chat is quiet when you plonk too many people ... maybe I should plonk 2 instead of 3
 
should I just be offended?
 
I upvoted a question! Maybe second time this year:(
 
@MartinJames how many downvotes?
 
@thecoshman FP overflow:(
 

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