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12:00 AM
The words of the RFC do not say that. "it only prohibits their usage as class, interface and trait names."
 
Yes
"Prohibits
 
s/prohibits/strongly recommend not using/ ?
 
As in: "Don't fucking do that."
 
E_NEEDS_REWORDING then
 
I'm not responsible for your comprehension failures.
 
12:01 AM
so the language designers ask us nicely to please not use them? what does this technically mean? will there be any notice? E_DEPRECATED? w/e?
 
Vote against it if you don't like my wording
Does the RFC talk about adding a notice?
 
Prohibit has a pretty clear meaning. If you're not using the standard meaning then I don't think it's my reading problem.
@Sara No, just prohibit.
 
the RFC talks about prohibiting, which from what I understand means "fatal" :P
 
@Danack The law prohibits you from driving over 100mph. You still can do it though.
 
> This breaks any and all cases where these new reserved words are used in class, interface or trait names. It does not break any usages as function or method names or as class constants.
Also from the RFC ^^
 
12:02 AM
@Oracramius Because you read more into it than it written, yes.
 
That doesn't seem open to interpretation.
 
a prohibition isn't open to interpretation (in Europe ;-) )
 
TBQH, I cribbed 90% from Levi, blame him
 
fair enuff
/me goes grab @LeviMorrison
 
It is usually his fault.
 
12:02 AM
@Ocramius You're physically incapable of driving over 100mpg?
100mph
 
@Danack :)
 
@Sara no, you're simply under arrest
that's what a prohibition is :P
 
Does Angela Merkle punch you in the face when you try?
@Ocramius Every time you do it? Law enforcement is that good?
Do you have a Future Crime unit as well?
 
> to make (something) impossible to do
 
May I enquire, what beverage are you partaking of to celebrate the evening @sara ?
 
12:04 AM
@PaulCrovella That's definition #3. Definition #1 is : to order (someone) not to use or do something
 
@Sara to be precise, currently working here in the UK on prohibitions about vehicles. A prohibitions means that they place a guy to guard you until it's past
 
Don't pick and choose with me, boy
 
:P
anyhoo, I think it's clear that everyone read "fatal" in that :P
 
Not drinking. Just not going to give into your bullying
@Ocramius Incorrect.
Unless I don't count in "Everyone"
Since we're being pedantic
 
Yo wrote it :P
 
12:05 AM
No, Levi did
 
@Sara given the context of a programming language it's not unreasonable to presume that definition, particularly when the language has no notion of "ordering" people to do anything any other way. And you're getting really defensive about this without cause. It is an RFC. These are comments. It is unclear.
nobody is bullying or being pedantic
 
@PaulCrovella Perhaps to you. You're the one choosing definition #3 over definition #1. Quite convenient that it suits your argument, isn't it?
Oh please, this entire argument is an exercise in pedantry
 
Okay, how about this - the RFC as currently worded says one thing, but people are either reading or believing it has a different meaning. This needs to be cleaned up - I'll ask the now relatively quiet internals list how we want to proceed.
 
@Danack I dunno, according to @Ocramius EVERYONE is reading it the same way
 
I'll use LIM(x->INF) on that
 
12:07 AM
That is, the way you've interpreted it
Right, so clearly it's well understood
 
@Sara You're choosing a definition that makes no sense whatsoever in the context the word is used. And chill out, nobody is attacking you.
 
Glad that's sorted.
I'm chill.
Je suis calme, boyo
You (plural) disagree with me and seem /incredibly/ insistent that I conform my view to suit yours. Perhaps that's not bullyish, it's just a bit rude.
Post to the list, present your interpretation and why it's bad.
I lack any actual fucks on the matter, at the end of the day.
 
Sure, that's what I'll do.
 
@Sara I think it's less rude to mention it with you informally here than on the list tbh
 
Nothing rude about a mention.
A multi-party pile-on hiding behind pedantry on the other hand...
Well, no matter,
 
12:11 AM
good night everyone
 
Well, we've got plenty of time to sort it out, so it's not a problem.
 
@Sara Yes, and @LeviMorrison did so, because they're actually reserved (and can't be used anymore), so there's no further BC break in 7.x.
 
Levi's RFC becomes irrelevant because of the STHv5 passage
Mine is about "addiitional" / "likely special" names
resource / object are *already* special, as they are real types known by the engine.
mixed / numeric / scalar: Are more like "it might make some sense to ask for these nicely, as we're thinking about union types"
Ergh, must get home. Ta
 
Yes, but the whole point of it is that their usage is not allowed anymore so there's no BC break in a minor version. Otherwise there wouldn't be any point in doing that now. resource and object are already types, yes, I totally agree there.
 
Quite the thread on HN: news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9214464
 
12:27 AM
> I'm always amazed by how PHP manages to move forward without breaking BC.
this really is rather impressive
 
@FlorianMargaine lies
 
12:45 AM
Unless I'm not mistaken, @LeviMorrison's RFC isn't completely irrelevant even with STHv5 in, as his RFC includes true and false as reservations
 
@Rican7 And null
 
1:12 AM
@Danack I can approve pecl account requests.
 
@Tyrael I submitted a request through the form for Pecl access about a week ago.
Other people saw it and commented on it, so I don't think it got totally eaten by grues.
maybe.
...
mikko is only responding to emails very slowly - I asked him to comment on me being awesome and taking over the project, but no response.
 
@PaulCrovella it will have to happen at some point otherwise we'll have E_TOO_MUCH_DECLARE or get stuck
 
Oh hey @Tyrael I was just writing you an email! :)
What is the process for me requesting a karma upgrade so I can merge pulls into php-src?
 
@marcio Oh don't get me wrong, I'm typically in the "fuck BC already, just fix shit" camp. It's still impressive to me how PHP gets from point A to point C as smoothly as it does for userland devs. Even if that does mean cruft sticks around or something gets introduced that feels icky at first (like the backslash namespace separator.)
 
@PaulCrovella just a general statement. But indeed that's impressive, sometimes in a bad way sometimes not
 
1:33 AM
hmmm, do I let the contract on my 3 dedicated servers that cost X expire, and spend the money on a single server that also costs X, but has way more grunt (i really don't need a redundant setup tbh)
 
@Leigh contact your provider and ask them how much they'll reduce the contract by?
 
They wont, it's already rock-bottom pricing
and they're too big to care about the few £ I give them
 
1:54 AM
Is it just me, or does the "voting irregularities" thread feel like a high school reunion?
Stuff we've been doing before voting 'no' :)
 
I'm not sure I like the names int_castable, float_castable, and string_castable (technically many values can be cast even if the functions return false).
Perhaps safe_int, safe_float, and safe_string?
Or int_safe, float_safe, and string_safe?
 
I want to put Tony, Lester, and Yasuo on a committee together and give them something to try and accomplish. Not just to keep them busy, but to see what in the world comes out the other end.
 
@PaulCrovella Well between Yasuo and Lester it's pretty simple, they have to come up with a way of communicating where each can understand the other
and then share it with the rest of us
 
@TheodoreBrown How about ≈
/not sure if serious
 
I don't know how to type that, lets go for ~= ?
 
2:04 AM
@Leigh Is that seriously valid in a function name?
 
Yes.
Or a class name.
 
Danacks is, mine isn't
I was thinking of a language operator :)
 
Oh - I'd assumed you'd gotten an utf-8 equals sign.
 
would have to be a not-quite-tilde too, since it's binary not
 
I am seriously trying to think of the best possible names.
 
heh, not sure what fits better, or ... maybe even or the equiv you linked
the unicode maths symbols list is the best explanation of discrete maths symbols I've seen so far, learning so much
 
2:22 AM
hi all
 
@Ja͢ck It would be an very interesting project to correlate peoples views on the scalar typehints with peoples age, how long ago they last used PHP or whether they are still working on a code base that was written 5 years ago.
 
Meh, I think I'll stick with the _castable names. They make sense from the perspective that you would only want to cast if they return true.
 
The nice thing about userland functions.....you can rename them if you decide on a better name, without waiting for the next major version of PHP.
Actually what about matching the is_* syntax with eq_* ?
eq_int, eq_string.
 
@Danack eq as in equals?
 
2:31 AM
eq as in equine, he just loves horses
 
I'm working with old php codebases, php 5.3 and older mostly
 
Going through the list of common two and three letter English words now...
can_int, can_float, and can_string
tis_int, tis_float, tis_string
I love the symmetry of is_int and tis_int.
 
Intable, stringable, floatable?
 
@Rangad I thought of that, but intable looks a bit like "in table".
 
True, and int_able looks worse than anything else 😓
 
2:39 AM
intable stringable floatable ... (yes joking)
 
Lol, inty, floaty, and stringy
 
exactly
-ish is also an acceptable suffix
 
floatation $x;
 
bouyant ?
 
🔝
 
2:43 AM
 
how sexist, new rfc, type system also caters for womantissas
(womantissa is always 0, and the actual value is siphoned off to buy shoes)
Oh wow, I just realised, I bet we can really confuse Lester, if we tell him every time a number is rounded, the fractional part keeps taking up memory, and it can cause Firebase to crash...
2
 
2:58 AM
hi
 
@TheodoreBrown tb_to_int? :p
 
buoyant floatatious lustring
 
 
1 hour later…
zan
4:26 AM
Good Morning folks
 
5:18 AM
@Leigh Trust me, that wouldn't just confuse Lester haha
 
5:40 AM
Mornings
 
mon, ronn
 
Work in 10m ... Just enough time to coffee up
 
5:58 AM
6am and still not tired :/
 
Sounds interesting :)
@Leigh Do you only sleep on Sundays? heh
 
So far it's going over how different people look for bugs in different ways, and what steps in the processes are, over the actual exploit development itself
I wish, I sleep most days, for a couple of hours here and there
 
Have you tried melatonin before?
 
nope, and I probably shouldn't
 
It ought to be what the body naturally produces
 
6:03 AM
while I was working, I was taking anti-depressants and anti-narcoleptics, since I quit I've stopped both, but when I start work again (and I'm more mentally busy) I know I'll get more tired and go back to them
I go from one extreme to the other, when I'm busy I want to sleep all the time, when I'm not I can't
 
That sounds like a bad dream =S
 
any one have worked on websockets ?
 
@mynameisbutt Try a question specific to the actual problem you're having
 
and change your name :P
 
that could be his real name...
 
6:06 AM
I have set up a websockets chat with the purpose of learning. Everything is working on the localhost but not working when I uploaded the files online
I think issue lies here
Server = new FancyWebSocket('ws://127.0.0.1:9300');
 
Yep, you would probably be right.
 
should i use the same ip on the online hosting server also ?
or different one ?
 
You could consider making it listen on 0.0.0.0
 
If that's the listening socket, binding to 127.0.0.1 means it will only accept connections from the local machine
If that's the outgoing connection, then obviously it's trying to connect to the local machine, and not your remote one
 
so what should I write their ? my domain name ?
 
6:09 AM
is that an outgoing connection or the listening connection?
 
well I don't exactly know as i am newbie in sockets but in my code the ip has been written in two places. one is this


// start the server
$Server = new PHPWebSocket();
$Server->bind('message', 'wsOnMessage');
$Server->bind('open', 'wsOnOpen');
$Server->bind('close', 'wsOnClose');
// for other computers to connect, you will probably need to change this to your LAN IP or external IP,
// alternatively use: gethostbyaddr(gethostbyname($_SERVER['SERVER_NAME']))
$Server->wsStartServer('127.0.0.1', 9300);
may be you can have any idea now
the above one was written in jquery where the chat html is
 
well it's called server, but that doesn't mean anything ;)
as Jack says, change the IP to 0.0.0.0
 
ok on both the places?
 
The -> wsStartServer() only
Then, the client should connect to the public ip address of the server.
 
server -> 0.0.0.0, client -> whatever the remote IP of the server is (domain name should work)
 
6:13 AM
Btw, make sure the server firewall is configured to allow that connection.
If applicable.
 
Ok
I AM sorry I had to go.. I will be here in 30 mins.will let you know the progress
thanks for all of your help
 
no worries, butt!
 
fedora release schedule is pretty nuts... v22 due in may...
 
is that .. ehh .. fast? :)
 
v21 was december
 
6:18 AM
not sure whether i would like such a distro
 
feels fast compared to upstream redhat/centos or debian :p
it's not as mad as arch..
about to refresh my toy servers, I don't like the way debian is going, so checking out other server distros
 
I moved from Redhat, to Debian, to Gentoo, to Centos ... and now we just use whatever AWS uses lol
 
I want something that's updated often, but not broken all the time
 
Gentoo was broken most of the time for me
Gentoo updates are like a box of chocolates, and sometimes you bite into a rock.
 
Arch is like a bag of rocks, sometimes someone hits you over the head with it
 
6:24 AM
I wonder how freebsd is doing these days. Was rather fond of it when I used it, but that was some time ago.
 
@PaulCrovella I'm using it as a desktop on my laptop, it's doing well :)
even works with gnome 3.14 now :D
no uefi support for encrypted ZFS roots yet though, but meh, can't be picky
 
You use it as a desktop?! Holy crap. I really need to look at it again.
 
sure why not? I even used OpenBSD as a desktop for a bit when I was feeling really sadistic. xfce worked fine
 
@Danack "Do you really think the RFC to tighten up the RFC process will be less contentious?" -- we'll find out in a few days. I'm going to be drafting a "thou shalt not edit near voting" rule clarification RFC in the next few days, based on some earlier more comprehensive work.
 
well, last I tried that was somewhere around v 4.11 so.... yeah, manually configuring X wasn't fun
 
6:29 AM
You still have to manually configure X :)
but there's enough information out there that it's not a challenge
and it's really only minor tweaks
even the nvidia driver for FreeBSD is up to date!
so yes, I'm running a hardware accelerated fbsd desktop even :)
 
we truly live in the future
 
imho forking bsd was the only thing apple got right
 
xf86config? :)
 
didn't get things right for me
 
6:45 AM
hi guys and girls can i ask you a question about PHP and SQL?
 
just .. ask
 
say I have 2 tables, one storing usernameID's with a usernameID as a PK, and then an age table that includes peple's ages and it has a "usernameID" as a FK to reference which username has which age
if i have a form on a site that asks, what is your age, so the user puts in 18, so I can add that value to the table
however, how do i know how to fill in the correct FK for that person's usernameID
 
you wake up one day and PHP7 has scalar type hints and a strict mode ...
true story ...
 
better than yesterday for sure
 
@ircmaxell when does work begin on jit stuff ?
 
6:49 AM
anybody know what I am saying? i feel like it is pretty simple, i don't know what it is called to search for it on google
 
if all you know about a user is their age, it's impossible to also know their id.
 
@johnc. Might be beside your point, but that seems like anti-normalisation. Why would you have a separate table for ages, referenced by a FK, when you could just store the age against the userID to start with (or better yet, their DoB so the age can be calculated dynamically)
 
i just used it as an example
 
so you want to do a multi-table update/insert?
 
basically.. i need to add values to one table, but i need to make sure the right FK gets added to it as well
 
6:52 AM
the user is logged in right?
 
yes
 
and you store their userid in their session?
 
that is something i haven't built out yet, but i'm trying to figure out overall how this needs to be done
okay is that what happens? so i need to pull it from their session?
 
that's generally how it's done :)
you put it in their session on successful login, and then it's available to you on every page they visit
 
okay so it's called a session and this is using cookies?
 
6:54 AM
the session will set a cookie yes, don't set the userid as a cookie
 
okay so it is stored in a session and then it is accessible ok i see
then when you have the insert statement, then it is passed through there?
like you have a function, then you pass through that userID from the session?
 
well, you have to pass it
 
ook
that gives me a place to start searching for hwat to do, thank you so much i love u
 
hooray, I did my good deed for the day, now I can go push a granny in front of a car to balance it out
 
hi
 
6:56 AM
hahaha
 
<?php
session_start();
var_dump($_SESSION);

$myValue = isset($_SESSION['myValue']) ? (int)$myValue : 0;
$myValue++;

$_SESSION['myValue'] = $myValue;
var_dump($_SESSION);
there you go, that should get you started, you can get the concept of how the session is working from that.
 
exactly how many people are you planning on killing today?
 
couple of billion
 
Stop doing so many good things!
 
wow, you are gonna be sooo helpful!
 
7:09 AM
Uh, this is the good thing
 
that's what you think, but what of others who stumble upon this gem and are instantly enriched?
 
I'm confused, I was proposing the world would be better with a few billion less people in it
 
Right, which you're trying to balance out by teaching people php.
 
ah, i thought the killing was necessary as part of doing so much good .. oh well
 
thx for that session code @lei
@Leigh
 
7:16 AM
@johnc. no problem, so if you refresh the page a few times you can see what happens. Even though HTTP is a stateless protocol, some information about you has been stored and is available to the request each time
Once you have the users ID, you can store and access it in the same way
And don't try and set any cookies yourself, let PHP handle it
(you can ignore this advice when you're a bit more experienced with it :))
 
the session value can be anything?
or you set it to the userID-PK ?
 
$_SESSION is an array, so you can store data in it associatively
 
not just any array, it's magical.
 
yes, it's powered by unicorn poop infused with pixie dust
 
@Leigh regarding your email to internals: I wouldn't mind mixed simply for being explicit - i.e. I know by looking at a function signature that that's expected rather than something just not being declared (yet) at all. Though userland defined union types would handle that use case for me too, should that become a thing.
 
7:22 AM
@PaulCrovella Personally, I don't use the word mixed anywhere for a class name, so I don't really care, if that's the consensus I'm fine with it. As long as it gets nopped by the parser ;)
although I suppose we can't even get away with that, because regenerating the code from the token list would omit it... as long as it basically does nothing, I don't care :)
But your point is valid
 
is the session the same as a cookie?
 
@johnc. no, but the mechanics behind the session sets a cookie
The reason I'm trying to warn you away from setting cookies manually, is because people invariably end up using cookies to store user controlled input, which can lead to security issues.
If it helps, imagine that session id's are PKs for associated user data, you're storing the session ID with the user as a cookie, and when they make a request to your site, you're using that ID to look up the associated data, and bring it into your script
but PHP handles all of that under the hood, so you don't have to worry about it - it just works
 
what do you mean by associated user data?
 
posted on March 17, 2015 by kbironneau

/* by GCube */

 
7:40 AM
morning
 
@Ja͢ck @Leigh hello I am back sorry for the inconvenience. the solution you propose didn't work for me
 
@johnc. ok man, being honest, getting a little bit frustrating now
 
cool no problem
 
@johnc. the data that you put in $_SESSION, is associated with the user who the session belongs to
 
7:42 AM
ok i see, thank you for your help
 
@johnc. yea sorry, I don't normally try and explain things to people, I think this is why :)
I forget that just because I understand what I'm saying, other people might not
 
finding the point of departure can be... taxing
 
@PaulCrovella Like, a bus stop?
 
0
Q: Getting facebook place id from instagram place

Kamran AhmedI know from the documentation of the instagram API that instagram has facebook locations mapped so you can search and get the location detail via facebook place id i.e. https://api.instagram.com/v1/locations/search?facebook_places_id=273471170716&access_token=[ACCESS-TOKEN] As you can see I am...

 
@Leigh The base already understood by both parties, the commonality that can be used to build on in order to explain something.
 
7:48 AM
morning Nikita
@PaulCrovella ah you meant departure as in divergence, yes, it's difficult
 
@johnc.@Leigh
 
@mynameisbutt don't do that, if people feel like they can help you, and they want to, they will
 
I suck at it, particularly over the internet. It's a lot easier when you've got visual cues (like a confused look on their face) to provide immediate feedback.
 
hmm, has anyone ever suggested to make foreach work on strings?
 
@Ja͢ck foreach char in str?
 
7:52 AM
yeah
 
s/char/byte
 
I am sorry
 
I think I've tossed the idea in here before, but nowhere official
 
it came back to me when i was reading through the in proposal
 
@mynameisbutt I don't know the software you're using, or your server/client set-up, I can't guess what the problem is, sorry, I don't think I have anything more for you
 
7:55 AM
well I have shared a link of what library I am using
 
Yea, and I don't really want to spend my time learning your library :)
 
well I googled it and whatever tutorial and code i see every code is same
 
Why did I never submit this as a PR! github.com/lt/php-src/commit/…
 
ok its fine if you don't wanna help
 
8:20 AM
good morning
 
dood morning
 
hi. does anybody help me in stackoverflow.com/questions/29094438/… this question
Thanks
 
8:35 AM
morning socium!
ripa, what is snapchat ?
 
Morning people
 
@animaacija google it...
 
you want to update snapchat? lol
google play store?
 
@johnc. ?
 
@ripa What makes you think snapchat has anything to do with PHP?
 
8:41 AM
@AllenJB no idea. I'm new in snapchat
 
@ripa so you just... guessed they're somehow related?
 
hehe
 
goto google play store
 
@johnc. ok
 
are u talking about this: github.com/JorgenPhi/php-snapchat
 
8:50 AM
Hi @ripa
 
@AniketDeshmukh yes
 
you know any opensource software for screen sharing
 
hi...I'm working on Zurmo Crm I have downloaded community edition then I have changed all stuffs...now, I want to sync the google apps (calendar) with the zurmo...I found their blog. seems useless for me...can you tell me what kind of approach I should go for? and how? I've no clues over it.
 
@Justcode how is this related to php?
 
@Patrick zurmocrm is php based....so I assumed some one might have worked on it in this room.
 
8:56 AM
@Justcode facebook is also php based, yet people don't come here to ask how to delete their account
 
@Patrick I get your point...still,I just wanna ask approach nothing else...I searched so many articles didn't get any
 
The bipolar swings in this room are like watching the various timezones of the world get up and start work, come back from lunch, get out of class and begin their homework.. etc. Like those sped-up world maps where you see street lights turning on and going dark.
 
@Justcode you're probably better asking in a more suitable place, like their forum... for software-specific questions.
P.S. Good mouring :)
 
@salathe already asked in the morning...not single person replied :)
anyways, thanks for your concern.
 
@Justcode You're no more likely to get a response on that topic here, sorry.
 
9:00 AM
yup get it
 
morning
 
9:31 AM
Arghhhh
i.imgur.com/mNo61rx.png This is not good.
 
posted on March 17, 2015 by kbironneau

/* by thureos */

 
9:47 AM
good mornings
 

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