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1:02 PM
Oh shoot me. I wasn't aware of the mess with 32/64 bit packages.
 
where?
 
Windows? Yeah you need to make sure you use the right x-bit :P
 
But of course.
I gave up on having 64 bit everything. Moving stuff to 32 bits, losing a day of work.
 
@Martijn From the shadows it leaps forth. I'm reminded strangely of the phrase in Buffy S7 : from beneath you it devours...
 
@MartijnPieters Didn't mean to malign your name, Just wanted to copy that post :(
 
1:12 PM
@BhargavRao I didn't take it as malignant!
I enjoy the joke as much as anyone else here :-)
 
meta.stackoverflow.com/q/286132/3005188 states there may not be any elections during 2015 due to the changes to flags and such. I wonder if that's such a good thing. Surely it might be better to have elections and allow fresh blood into the moderator system?
 
@Ffisegydd if it gets me off the hook of embarrassing myself, I'm all for it :p
 
@MartijnPieters :) Have so many other doctored images. Thanks to CSS
 
@Bhargav you use CSS to alter the text of an HTML element? Wow :p
 
Oops, Sorry, HTML
 
1:14 PM
(I assume it's been suggested before but) I wonder if having "moderator terms" would be a good thing.
 
Learning Web techs now :(
 
So you serve for 2 years and then have to run for re-election (if you wish to)
 
@Ffisegydd although then, you'd risk losing the experienced mods when someone just happens to be more popular...
 
Who says the new people would do a bad job though? I know there's pros and cons for it but it's still worth discussing.
I assume it's been meta'd before now, lemme search.
 
I want an election just to get more badges
 
1:17 PM
65
Q: Should Community Moderators be "elected for life", or have terms?

Jeff AtwoodWhile I applaud the excellent work of all our community moderators, the question has come up: How long will be the elected moderator’s “mandate”? Is it for life, or are we going to have “moderator elections” regularly? Of course, any community moderator who wishes to recuse him or herself c...

 
@BhargavRao raise a protest... the evil lords on SO are violating your democratic rights! If they fail to heed you, then arrange a riot or two :p
 
Lol. One man riot. They'll chuck me out
 
@Ffisegydd Ehh… what would be the problem with promoting more moderators even if they are not necessarily needed?
 
@Ffisegydd Prisoners and politicians serve time. Speak volumes, doesn't it?
 
1:22 PM
I don’t think relieving other moderators is a bad thing right?
 
I assume they have their reasons for not having too many.
You could imagine that if there were too many there wouldn't be much for them to do, some may end up doing very little but still being mods.
 
Is there a mechanism for moderators resigning? And also, for measuring activity? A la Debian DDs?
 
And how is that a problem?
 
@FaheemMitha moderators can just resign, and the decision on if they're doing enough work is between the moderating team, and then SE staff can step in if needs be
 
Because they would still have mod powers, but would be doing very little active moderation? I mean, how is that a good thing? Just remove them from the mod team if they're not doing much (which is what happens at the moment I think?)
 
1:26 PM
@JonClements ok
 
I’m an admin of a not-so-small wiki community, and we elect new administrators whenever the community decides to elect a new one. There is no limit. Administrators are appointed for life, and the community may—at any point—decide to reevaluate their position (so the community is in control). There is no harm in having too many administrators, so we don’t take away their rights regardless of how active or how content-restricted they become (we have some dealing only with spammers for example).
 
@Ffisegydd or just leave them. why not?
 
@poke so how does stackoverflow decide to revoke modship
 
@FaheemMitha I don't personally think it's a good idea, ideally I think that mods should be actively doing their job. I think having mods doing nothing is a waste, just remove them from the team.
 
DDs that aren't active enough are a concern because they have specific duties - management of specific packages and so forth. SE mods don't have clearly delineated duties. They are mods at large.
 
1:30 PM
@Ffisegydd You have the right to require them to do their job if you pay them. Since they are doing this on their free time, they should be allowed to only do whatever they feel comfortable with.
@AnttiHaapala That’s a process that’s missing. The community should be able to do so.
 
@Ffisegydd Well, it seems harmless to leave them. One can always appoint more mods. I guess if there are too many they could become hard to keep track of, but afaik it has not happened yet.
 
@poke But as they are not being paid and presumably they have no formal contract, SE are also free to remove their modship if they feel they're not doing enough surely?
 
@Ffisegydd Just because you can remove them, you don’t have to remove them. If they contributed positively in their moderator position, they should keep it.
The only reason to remove the rights would be if they end up harming the community/site.
 
You basically say "Okay you've volunteered to be a mod, thanks! That's awesome. As stated during the mod elections mods should ideally be able to put X hours in per week. We understand that some weeks you may not be able to do as much, that's cool seeing as how you volunteer. However, if it gets to the point that you can't put enough time in then we may need to have a discussion about you resigning. This would allow us to get someone else who can put the time in."
 
That’s not really what I’m saying, no.
 
1:34 PM
I think that having someone as a mod who is not actively modding could be harmful. They may not be as active reading meta/keeping up with how moderation is working, meaning that they could handle some flags badly.
No that's what I'm saying it should be like (sorry for the confusion)
 
But I disagree with the moderator role anyway. I very much dislike how they cannot act as non-moderators anymore.
 
howso?
 
Everything you do, you do as a moderator, with moderator powers. You can’t vote to close anymore but are expected to have the final word on it. You can’t comment or contribute as a user but only as a moderator. I would have problems with that. Moderators should be peers that can turn on their powers to actually do moderator stuff.
 
I'm so happy that PBF comics is updating again.
 
omglol at Aranaktu
 
1:47 PM
blah, what is it with people that delete their question after you give the correct answer in a comment?
 
cbg
 
give them an answer instead
However, you won't be able to delete a question if it has answers voted up by the community (or if you accepted one of those answers)
:P
 
downvote and delete
 
upvote twice
 
meh :(
Today +100
yay
 
1:53 PM
Some days, I almost forget how much I love python
 
@Intrepid Python loves you too.
 
I can tell, in the ways it shows me
It just occurred to me, instead of having a settings file, I could have a settings module, and it wouldn't break any 3rd party code
Assuming I craft it correctly
 
@BhargavRao Peter Horvard is trying to be a one-man riot.
He has strong views, miles removed from community concensus.
 
-45 ....
He should have deleted his answer at -42
 
Bah, the post with the discussion I had with him is gone.
@BhargavRao Nope, not Peter.
 
1:57 PM
Yeah.. Just joked.
 
Who was the guy with that psychic problem?
 
Spelling correction: Horvarth, th not d
The conversation in question: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/285023/… (10k+ only)
 
Will bookmark it.
 
@BhargavRao The turkish troll? Rather not invoke him.
 
1:59 PM
He may rise again and kill 42 souls
 
lol ...
what a troll
 
I think he also deleted the comment where he claims scientific research shows that communities tend towards a core that likes being in control.
That was his reason for keeping up the fight.
He genuinely believes he is right. I think he feels morally obligated to show everyone how wrong they are.
Yeah, the comment was posted to this question and is now gone.
 
I guess the only favorite vote on that question is his
 
@BhargavRao Don't confuse the star with 'favorite'.
I know that that's what the label says, but it really just means 'watch this for me'.
So if things change, you get notified.
I use this all the time to watch for vandalism, for example.
That doesn't mean I like the post, just that I am keeping an eye on it.
21
A: Favorite a question but no up-vote?

Martijn PietersStarring a question can be useful for many things. Including: Tracking questions that you are thinking of closing, but you want to give the OP a chance to fix the problems you pointed out in the comments first. Tracking questions that are on-topic, but you really want to discuss the type of pos...

Since that user already changed username once (it used to be Peter Horvarth, now just peterh) it can be helpful to track the post, more than the account.
 
@MartijnPieters Oh god. That was truly a train-wreck.
 
2:09 PM
Damn. Now I know when I should star ;)
 
@MarkR. Was it a homework-ish question?
 
That user is now complaining about how many Meta effect downvotes they are getting.
People feel the user shouldn't have such much trust, I guess, but I don't think they are voting on the content when that happens..
 
@PM2Ring, not really, an SVN $PWD issue more or less
 
@MarkR. Oh, ok. Maybe they were a bit embarrassed to ask a question that could be easily answered in a comment.
 
yeah, I guess so
 
2:20 PM
The reason I asked if it was homework-ish is that some people delete their homework-related question to destroy the evidence that they cheated. Fortunately, that doesn't happen so much on SO but sadly it's fairly common on SE.Mathematics.
 
most of the Python homework-ish questions seem to be downvoted really quickly
 
for a good reason
 
It is not that they are homework questions. Posts get downvoted when they are simply bad questions.
 
they are often far worse than "haskell homework questions"
 
There is a correlation, just not a causation.
 
2:25 PM
With python turtle...how do you draw or highlight a point?
 
0
Q: Websockets test using low bandwidth in localhost

DavidDevI was trying to evaluate the cost of a tls/ssl connection vs a normal one. The fact is that I came across a problem in both cases. I've coded this app with Python. Using tornado for the server side and socket-client for the client side. During the test I send 1000 times one string with size 142...

I don't even
 
draw a circle around the point and fill it in
alternatively, switch to a GUI library, which will have an easier interface for such things. Ex. Tkinter has canvas.create_arc
 
^^ reminds me the college days. Subject : Data structures and algorithms.
 
SyntaxError at line 1
 
hi guys, give me an advice, which is faster, iterating over a large list or file instant ?
 
@PYPL ?
We need more context.
Did you build the large list from the file?
 
Do you mean, .readlines() or for line in file?
 
How large a list are we talking about?
 
2:33 PM
well look, i have a file which is 200 mb, i just want to make the script run faster, and this script iterates over that file 3 times, which is faster, take the file content into a list and then start itrations, or iterate over file doing .readline() and seek-ing handler to 0,0 every time
 
if you have ram, read it in and iterate 3 times
but what does it do?
 
is iterating 3 times really necessary?
 
well, unfortunately yes
 
faster would be iterating over lines only once :D
and using some algo
so what are you doing?
 
^ what are you doing, AND what does the data look like?
 
2:35 PM
guess ill copy it to the list coz its 32 gb
 
the iterate in memory / not in memory does not sound interesting
 
should be enough
 
we want context
!!! :D
 
To determine which approach is faster, implement both and see which one is faster.
 
:D you, stay there
 
2:36 PM
notice that in modern operating systems it will still be kept in memory either way
 
Iterating 3 times sounds like you are forgetting to store some details the first time around.
 
but syscalls have overhead
iterating 3 times sounds a lot
 
@MartijnPieters yes you're right, it grabs information on the first 2 iterations
 
I have iterated a file 2 times, for converting json to csv
why doesn't it do in 2 iterations then?
 
If you have 32GB of RAM and the files "only" 200MB, then seeking and re-reading may not be that much slower than loading the whole thing into a list, since your OS should cache the file.
 
2:37 PM
thats what I said
 
Ah, so you did. :)
 
@PYPL Sounds like you need to iterate smarter, not faster.
 
this sounds like you want to have O(n) for smaller values of O(n) :D
 
uhm no, its not possible to do it "smarter" because i need values from the first iteration to be used in the second iteration and both for the 3rd iteration
 
@PYPL And there is no way you cannot incorporate that information in a datastructure to use later on?
 
2:39 PM
so what are you doing :d
 
Why do you need to iterate over the whole dataset again?
 
ultra secret :d
 
lol
 
I cannot think of any problem with 3 iterations really
 
@Kevin got it...dot() does that exactly
 
2:41 PM
I can see that some algorithms require multiple passes, but the later passes can use in-memory data. That doesn't have to be the whole file.
 
:D because the file has information that is stored in the middle of file but another information is keep on the top of file which you can find only by using the middle foudn infromation
damn complicated :D
 
I am hard-pressed to think of a situation where you'd actually need to scan the whole file again..
@PYPL Then keep information in memory long enough to be around when you hit that middle bit.
 
"Are you writing a new Zope?", @AnttiHaapala
LOL
 
my coworkers are looking at me oddly now, thanks
 
user559633
2:43 PM
@AnttiHaapala lol ( stackoverflow.com/questions/28517238/… ). i love how fragile this "solution" is
 
@MarkR. context?
 
user559633
also, lol at laike9m thinking that SO is some sort of "give me the codes" helpdesk
 
@MarkR. ah, missed that one.
 
That polymorphic mapping question is odd to me. Why have a dict that stores attributes of a bunch of classes, instead of just storing them as properties in the classes themselves?
 
2:45 PM
@AnttiHaapala: it's off-topic, resource request.
 
I've started imagining a getattr that looks up class.__bases__
time for a break
 
@MartijnPieters well almost on-topic :P, and is still better than most on-topic questions today
 
@MarkR. for cls in reversed(obj.__mro__): if cls in self._actual_mapping: return self._actual_mapping[cls].
 
oh, mro
hmm
yeah, no, I don't like where that is going
 
rhubarb
 
2:52 PM
yay
HTML parsing with regex
 
@MarkR. Otherwise you'd have to traverse __bases__ yourself.
__mro__ gives you a helpful sequence instead.
 
hmm? didnt adapterregistry.lookup work without interfaces in zope.interfaces 4
 
@MartijnPieters, cool, wasn't aware of mro
 
says sro is not defined...
 
@AnttiHaapala It does, but zope.interfaces is included in the dependencies.
 
3:05 PM
Hmm, how to tell that stopwatch OP to use a GUI, without getting put on the hook to answer all his follow up questions...
 
which stopwatch OP?
 
0
Q: User interactive stopwatch (Python)

albin varghese(On python 3.4.7) I am currently trying to create a stopwatch that will start and stop by the user's will. But, I am experiencing difficulties making the program suitable for this. The stopwatch itself is there and running accordingly but the starting and stopping isn't. Is there a way to make th...

I like that he says "sorry about the messed up format" but doesn't actually attempt to fix it
 
sorry about my general lazyness
 
cbg
I have a question, what's the most pythonic way to iterate every item and the item before it in a list?
As in - in [1,2,3,4,5] I want to iterate [(2,1), (3,2), (4,3), (5,4)]
 
yes
@BenjaminGruenbaum ^
 
user559633
3:15 PM
If I want to @ mention someone that's not currently in the room, do I @ mention his username or is there some hackery to pick the right UN?
 
@AnttiHaapala Thanks, what's what I had :)
 
@MarkR. class.__mro__ is the cached output of the class.mro() class method.
 
@tristan he only gets the ping if he was in the room in the last 48 hours
 
user559633
@BenjaminGruenbaum ah, okay. i wonder how they deal with multiple people with the same UN being in the room in the last 48 hours
 
They ping everyone
 
user559633
3:17 PM
Oof. Thanks
 
os.linesep if not line[-1] == os.linesep else ''
or
os.linesep if not line[-1].endswith(os.linesep) else ''
 
latter
less [-1]
 
because '\r\n'?
 
os.linesep

    The string used to separate (or, rather, terminate) lines on the current platform. This may be a single character, such as '\n' for POSIX, or multiple characters, for example, '\r\n' for Windows. Do not use os.linesep as a line terminator when writing files opened in text mode (the default); use a single '\n' instead, on all platforms.
 
aha
why would I use \n if I want \r\n?
 
3:19 PM
because text files convert \n to \r\n
this is the mindf*ck that microsoft brought to us :D
 
user559633
Alternate option: Don't support Windows.
 
I think it is actually from CP/M and then came to Quick and Dirty OS
if you don't support windows
then it is '\n' :D
not many os using \r anymore
CR: Commodore 8-bit machines, Acorn BBC, ZX Spectrum, TRS-80, Apple II family, Mac OS up to version 9 and OS-9
 
I've simplified my code enough to show you - I'm using tee and next but I'm not using the output right.
Basically - I have a sentence and I want to replace new york with new_york this is of course simplified:
def without_irrelevant_words(words):
    new_words = [words[0]]  # dummy word to replace if starts with New York
    words, more_words = tee(words)
    next(more_words)  # progress iterator
    for first, second in zip(words, more_words):
        cur = (first[0] + ' ' + second[0])
        if cur == 'new york':
            new_words[-1] = ('new_york', first[0])
        else:
            new_words.append(second)

    return ((w, p) for (w, p) in new_words if w not in irrelevant_words and w[0])
The words are (word, part_of_speech) tuples, this is super ugly (also probably doesn't work since I edited it to simplify, but you get the idea)
 
Is there a standard way of reporting bugs for SciPy documentation here?
 
text files don't convert anything since they're not actual programs
 
3:23 PM
why do you do "cur"
 
@ReutSharabani except in some languages
 
why not if (first, second) == ('new', 'york')
 
Never mind, if I click on "Source", it links to a GitHub repo. I can make a pull request.
 
@AnttiHaapala because it's simplified, and in practice it performs an in on a dictionary.
 
ah
so in this case you might want to use a generator instead?
if you're removing irrelevant
 
3:25 PM
Maybe I just need to split it into several methods - one for iterating the pairs and to abstract the POS part away (that is, unwrap the pairs into just pairs and couple them with the parts of speech later. The problem is since I'm filtering it might go out of sync.
Maybe I'll just do a .replace before I POS tag it.
 
No use to answer when Ninja has answered, just upvote and gtfo stackoverflow.com/a/28544721/4099593
 
Thanks for the help
 
I'd rather delete my answer. It is quite useless now
 
No inputs, so we cannot possibly even begin to reproduce the OPs strange claims.
 
cbg
 
3:34 PM
why oh why "I am python newbie, I am using python 2" :(
 
python.org should just hide the download link for 2 under "I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING"
 
yes
"Please enter your credit card number to continue"
 
send BTC to ...
 
user559633
2.7 is pretty good.
 
all of my prod stuff is on 2.7
because I can't really justify the migration at this point
plus, pypy for 3 sucks
 
3:39 PM
and jython :D
omg jython 2.7 beta 3 :D
 
New language
 
heh
codereview #python is kinda slow
 
haha :D
 
feed it more mice
 
It sounded bad
 
3:45 PM
@MarkR. then it'll just lie there digesting!
 
@MartijnPieters, then adjust env["MICE_PER_MINUTE"]
 
suddenly a wild gold badge appears
 
Woah @AnttiHaapala Perfect 10
Finally
 
This question was voluntarily removed by its author.
Just need that guy to accept my answer, then I'll get a silver badge
 
3:57 PM
pfft, badges
:(
only slightly jealous.
 
@BhargavRao perfect 10 what?
 

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