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6:02 PM
Or else, where (which SE site) is the proper place to ask the question about that RQL/FIQL implementation? Definitely not SO, but.. where?
 
if($reset == $reset)
 
@PeeHaa In PHP, this is not entirely insane.
 
user1804599
 
:D
 
6:13 PM
@FlorianMargaine Tell me when you do :)
 
On using strict in PHP7: Strictly Research http://blog.krakjoe.ninja/2014/11/strictly-research.html #php
/me is out of energy ....
feel like I deserve some ice cream ...
 
@JoeWatkins You poor, insane, delusional genius...
 
@JoeWatkins NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO GOD NO
I'd thought of doing that before. It's a really, really bad idea. Please NO.
 
6:16 PM
posted on November 10, 2014 by Joe Watkins

Fig 1. Strict Easter EggRecently this screen shot was posted on twitter, there was a thread on reddit, and there was much nattering. While I value very highly the fact that PHP, at it's heart, is a dynamic language, why shouldn't we be able to use strict ? If a programmer wants to use strict type hints, then it doesn't need to effect all those people not using strict type hints. Strict para

2
 
@AndreaFaulds don't load it
 
@JoeWatkins your blog seriously is in need of a syntax highlight thingy
 
@PeeHaa it is, but I couldn't get one to work properly ... so I bravely gave up ...
 
@JoeWatkins ?
 
@JoeWatkins :-)
 
6:19 PM
@AndreaFaulds is an extension, if you don't want strict hints don't load the extension, or don't import any autoboxes, simple ...
 
user1804599
@PeeHaa is there also documentation on where filenames and line numbers are stored in the byte code and on how to execute the byte code from PHP?
 
@AndreaFaulds why?
 
In any case, if anyone has ideas..
0
Q: FIQL/RQL or RESTful query parsers PHP implementations

Alma DoRESTful queries: FIQL/RQL I'm looking for implementations for FIQL in context of RESTful application. The thing which I'm looking for previously was asked on SO, but I'm looking for implementations, written in PHP. So far I did some research and found javascript and java implementations, but it ...

 
@JoeWatkins E_TOO_STRICT
 
6:24 PM
@PeeHaa yeah, that was a check against NAN ;-)
 
eww reddit
 
@rightføld I don't know whether that is also in there? @bwoebi should be able to tell you magic stuff like that
 
user1804599
@bwoebi help!!!oneone
 
@rightføld well, what ever bytecode means here... Zend ops? in the op_array!?
 
@AndreaFaulds I don't care about frameworks because I don't use them. They ruin interoperability anyways with all their bad practices. Can't comment on the performance
 
user1804599
6:26 PM
@bwoebi Zend Engine 2 Opcodes
 
user1804599
With apc_bin_load I suppose.
 
@rightføld No, byte code is not well-defined and not stable. Generating PHP code is much simpler.
 
user1804599
OIC.
 
user1804599
But then I cannot set the line number and file name for stack traces right?
 
@rightføld Nope, you can't
 
user1804599
6:30 PM
:c
 
you can catch them and translate tho - I think that's what Twig does
 
user1804599
Ah yeah.
 
but directly generating opcodes is definitely a dead end - they're not designed to be used by anything but the ZE directly
 
user1804599
I'll generate PHP and then worry about line numbers and filenames later.
 
@rightføld Are you writing YAPL?
 
user1804599
6:33 PM
Just experimenting with lisp-to-PHP.
 
user1804599
I'm already working on YAPL as you may know, but that's not this.
 
Seriously, autoboxing... please, no. Someone's going to use this. :(
 
user1804599
Autoboxing is not needed if you get rid of non-objects.
 
user1804599
And if they're immutable you can optimise them to non-boxed representations as an implementation detail.
 
evenin'
 
6:38 PM
@rightføld It's not needed even with non-objects. The only use case for it in PHP is scalar type hints.
@rightføld If they're immutable, arrays are a pain to work with, and not performant.
 
so, anything interesting , that I missed, guys'n'gals ?
 
@tereško krakjoe had another idea and implemented it (autoboxing (yuck))
@JoeWatkins Don't take this personally...
 
user1804599
@AndreaFaulds Why?
 
user1804599
I mean objects immutable, not pointers to objects.
 
user1804599
Just like Integer in Java.
 
6:40 PM
Integer in java is horribad
3
 
@rightføld You'd have to make a new one with every change.
 
user1804599
The implementation can optimise them to some internal primitive types without impacting the language.
 
Also what @NikiC said.
@rightføld Ahahahaha... no.
 
> horribad.
^^ I lol'd.
 
@AndreaFaulds it's code, but rather than just saying "NO", maybe measure, continue the research, prove me wrong :)
 
6:41 PM
@DanLugg godawful
@JoeWatkins I opposed it because I'd thought of doing this before (in core) and realised it was a bad idea
 
the fact is that the only places that would use it don't care about performance, there are no frameworks that are aimed at being fast
 
That much is true. This stops us adding proper, performant type hints with nice syntax in core, though.
 
that's not going to happen, I don't think I want it to happen ...
 
It'd be less horrible than this extension becoming widely used.
 
well I'm not sure it would, a core that support strict typing is much more complicated, I'll have to pay for that even if I don't use those abilities ...
 
6:46 PM
Much more complicated? Huh? Have you even seen how simple the patch is?
 
plus no agreement can be reached on how that should even work ...
actually strict is wrong for core php, it has to be dynamic in some sense and we can't come to an agreement, I'm not even going to consider the core getting hints as strict as this a possibility ... that's the simple patch, the one we want isn't simple, at all ...
 
The patch for casting type hints is small. Strict hints would be even smaller.
 
@JoeWatkins Why do you think so? Just because php should be "dynamic" or is there another reason?
 
Good morning :-)
 
6:49 PM
Good morning, @ircmaxell :)
 
> Quoting Rasmus:

PHP is and should remain:
1) a pragmatic web-focused language
2) a loosely typed language
3) a language which caters to the skill-levels and platforms of a wide range of users

Your RFC should move PHP forward following his vision. As said by Zeev Suraski “Consider only features which have significant traction to a large chunk of our userbase, and not something that could be useful in some extremely specialized edge cases […] Make sure you think about the full context, the huge audience out there, the consequences of making the learning curve steeper with every new featu
 
or evening
 
moin @ircmaxell
 
@JoeWatkins Typehints don't cost anything if not used, right?
 
well we can't come to an agreement on how casting should be performed, isn't there 3 or 4 failed rfc's for that ...
 
6:50 PM
@JoeWatkins Actually, I can tell you how much more complicated core is, because I (and originally @ircmaxell here) went and did it.
Only one function is affected. One. Just one. A single function. (Aside from adding some defs to the parser and scanner, but they hardly count, and you can actually avoid those entirely if you want)
 
@JoeWatkins Yes, that's the problem.
Maybe we'll come to our senses sometime and introduce strict typehints...
 
I've read through it before, maybe it's simple but if we can't agree how it should work then it's not happening ...
 
@NikiC That's why the safe casts RFC exists, to pave the way for that.
 
@JoeWatkins Could it be done in two votes? One for scalar hints and then one for the implementation? Unless people are so against one implementation that they rather have no scalar hints...
 
@Patrick But everyone agrees with scalar hints. There's no need for a vote for that.
 
6:52 PM
@JoeWatkins so .. why the hell we got Traits added to php ?
 
@NikiC the more I think about it, as long as we have a safe cast mechanism (external to the type hint), then I am +1 to strict hints
 
@Patrick That's actually a nice illustration as to why two votes are pretty useless ^^
 
I suggested we should allow having a preliminary vote in the RFC process. It'd be useful for some RFCs. But not scalar hints.
My vision of the future: FunkyDatabaseModelThingieWowImSoObjectOrientedIsntLavarelSyphomonyNice::getUser‌​(to_int($_GET['id'] ?? $_SESSION['user_id']));
 
/me runs
 
@ircmaxell OK, does getUser‌​(to_int($_GET['id'] ?? $_SESSION['user_id'])); sound nicer?
 
6:55 PM
@AndreaFaulds The Laravel Static Symfony Presents: Cake, Igniting The Aura
9
 
@DanLugg TLSSPCITA
Sounds like some new CVE with a semi-marketable name
 
Too many consecutive consonants. In particular, consonants that are difficult to pronounce together.
 
I'm still gonna have ice cream ... lata ...
 
/me still runs
 
@AndreaFaulds Tullspckeeta
@ircmaxell Getting in shape?
 
7:00 PM
@ircmaxell what's so scary? D:
Does getUser‌​(to_int($_GET['id'])) sound less dystopian?
 
scary, did you see my last tweet?
 
The view from my hotel room... http://t.co/VflFF6bx1A
?
So was @DanLugg right then:
3 mins ago, by Dan Lugg
@ircmaxell Getting in shape?
?
(away, acquiring and/or eating food)
 
well, not quite
dinner won't happen for another 4 or 5 hours
 
@AndreaFaulds would it be possible to add just the strict hints (without the boxing) as an extension? (I have no clue about such things)
And if so, any objections to that?
 
but I won't be staying in my hotel room long :-)
 
7:07 PM
argh
my terminals are going crazy
I type characters in one terminal, but some of them go into another one...
 
Only some?
Are you in tmux/screen or something?
 
afk / beers
 
@KevinMGranger yeah, was using screen. just restarted everything, now working again :)
 
7:56 PM
crap
spent two hours debugging a wrong bit set in a mask :(
 
@NikiC If only gdb would provide some means to show a field in an or'ed form of some defines...
(you tell gdb which flags can be in that bitmask and gdb then shows it nicely to you)
p/x and p/t are nice, but I always miscount there :x
I completely agree that wrong bitflags can be a frustrating thing… @NikiC
 
@Patrick Yes, they could be done as an extension. I don't think adding core language syntax features as optional extensions is good, though.
 
@bwoebi p/x wouldn't even have helped here, because the mask was written into read-only memory mapped to an interrupt controller
 
8:14 PM
@NikiC I already had done a mprotect() call inside gdb to access protected data...
@NikiC err… you mean write-only?
 
@bwoebi yeah, sure ^^
 
@NikiC well, then just call mprotect() in gdb on that memory area to debug…
 
8:42 PM
@PeeHaa lolwut
 
It's ok. She had it coming :P
 
@PeeHaa haha geweldig
 
:)
 
@AndreaFaulds deleted the session commit and fixed the simplexml commit
you can pull my branch
 
8:59 PM
@hakre This is an awesome answer, I'm glad I don't work in the same team as that miserable guy. — Jimbo Jun 18 '13 at 15:22
@Jimbo Screw you. :)
 
@salathe Why? Isn't he just being right?
 
@bwoebi Sorry, why what?
 
@salathe why "screw you" to @Jimbo
 
hmmmmmm invalidating a cached file just took down apache...
 
@bwoebi because he said I'm miserable. :P
 
9:04 PM
@salathe yeah… but, you don't have to say "screw you" if he's being right?
 
Sure he does.
Screw you @Jimbo
 
:>
 
:D
 
@bwoebi Huh? I'm not say hakre's answer isn't awesome, I'm saying "screw you" at the snarky comment about working with me. And even then, I'm poking fun at him.
Maybe the smiley didn't give the message the appropriate internet-emotion.
If I meant "screw you" in the traditional sense, I wouldn't be smiling. ;)
 
You really didn't get that I just was joking too?
 
9:07 PM
E_NEED_MORE_SMILEYS
 
user image
4
 
@PeeHaa ^ this
 
Screw you, @bwoebi.
 
@salathe hehe
 
(no smiley)
 
9:08 PM
@salathe sarcasm doesn't need smilies to be sarcasm.
 
@bwoebi Very true.
 
@salathe strikethrough is with three dashes...
 
@bwoebi I know that...
 
@salathe 8 pings later :P
 
@Machavity only 8? :)
 
9:11 PM
But why do people misinterpret a joke in reply to a joke as if one hadn't understood that the first joke was a joke?
 
per the PDO docs "Persistent connections are not closed at the end of the script, but are cached and re-used when another script requests a connection using the same credentials." So if I am using an SQLite connection, which does not have credentials, does it make sense to use a persistent connection?
 
... did chat adjust its colors?
I feel like I see more contrast between colors now.
 
When I first started to use PHP I used persistent connections. Then I ate up all the connections to MySQL and stopped doing that.
 
9:21 PM
@LeviMorrison maybe you tilted your monitor or something? i'm not noticing a difference
 
I upgraded to Mac OS X Yosemite but that's the only change I can think of.
 
@crypticツ no, because sqlite.org/serverless.html
There's nothing to remain persistently connected to...
 
I hate jabbascript!
HATE IT
 
invalid left-hand side in assignment means you did something very wrong
 
@LeviMorrison No, but I've been confused by justgetflux.com suddenly kicking in before now?
 
9:23 PM
@FlorianMargaine And I have no idea at what point I broke it. And it's all minified and shit
 
@PeeHaa well, get the unminified version...
 
@PeeHaa Call it ECMAScript and pretend it's something else entirely. Otherwise you'll be sucked into Node.js and there's no coming back at that point
 
@DaveRandom I assumed in this case the persistence would be keeping the file open.
 
@FlorianMargaine Yeah the unminified version works for now
 
change your minifier :D
 
9:26 PM
I think I used yui for it
Any suggestions?
 
do you have a throws variable somewhere?
 
@DaveRandom I don't use it. Guess I'm just seeing colors better \o/ ^^
 
try deleting the code you just wrote, re-add progressively...
 
@crypticツ The only thing that really costs you is a stat() call, if you're bothered about that you probably shouldn't be using sqlite ;-)
 
@DaveRandom Broken certificate is broken
@FlorianMargaine God I hate js :P
 
9:29 PM
hate yui, not js
 
@PeeHaa not for me, what's your browser bitching about?
 
@DaveRandom Expiration date too long :P
> NET::ERR_CERT_VALIDITY_TOO_LONG
@FlorianMargaine Can I hate both please :)
 
:(
 
@PeeHaa lol, sounds like Google are being pretty aggressive with the whole SHA1 thing, you on canary?
The cert is valid until 2019, Google are going to drop support for it some time in 2017 iirc
 
9:32 PM
yeah
 
I bet the recent mess with OpenSSL probably helped push them to do that
 
One of our customers just rejected our PDF invoice because it contains color pixels.
I literally can not even.
 
@FlorianMargaine Re-minifying did the trick for now so I am going to close the file and not look at it again before I screw it up again :P
 
9:49 PM
i.stack.imgur.com/l1DFP.png Can yalls look over this and see if I need to delete it and go back under my rock, or edit it and submit it?
 
@crypticツ isn't PHP then opening a virtual squlite file or something similar?
(just to check)
 
@bwoebi it's suppose to create the file if it does not exist, but in this case there is no file to create due to no path, unless it's trying to create in / which it should still error since no permission.
 
@bwoebi As in :memory?
 
@PeeHaa that's what I mean
 
That might be the case @crypticツ, but imho without passing it that would be stupid
But php...
 
9:54 PM
@crypticツ can you create a table and read from it or something alike?
 
I think I would say it is a bug either way
 
... Apple overwrote my Apache config when upgrading to Yosemite.
Just... wow.
 
@LeviMorrison There's an app for that. Oh wait...
 
@LeviMorrison lol
 
@LeviMorrison You don't keep your own configs in a separate file for that? You're actually not supposed to edit the apple config…
 
9:57 PM
@bwoebi You can't actually use your own without editing the apple config anyway.
 
@LeviMorrison also, each OS X upgrade I do, I have to re-run make install in the php dir etc.
 
Welp, now you've learned to just to an Include conf.d/*.conf...
 
@LeviMorrison no, you should change the plist to startup with a different main config
 
apple sucks
 
By the way, if RHEL did something like that they'd lose support.
 

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