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9:00 PM
@MrAnubis Oh, congratulations.
@LewsTherin vim does indentation nicely, btw :P
 
@MrAnubis I got a job as well :) Congrats dude
 
I don't know where in the world you are, but a job most places is gold these days.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks , but i am sill under thinking process
@LewsTherin cool , congrats man!!
 
@keithlayne So true..
@RMartinhoFernandes I will give it a shot. Fingers crossed
 
company uses java mainly (WT..) , that's why i didn't join yet :D
 
9:02 PM
@MrAnubis, @LewsTherin good luck to you both in that job thing
 
Who cares? Java is OK. What will you be doing?
 
(What have I done? Either I inspired another fanatic or scarred a kid for life)
 
@LewsTherin firstly 3 months training i will be doing :)
 
@keithlayne Thanks, I hope they don't fire me first week :)
 
After having almost no time to program and keep up with technology for the last 10 years, I'm blown away at how much Java is still being used...
 
9:04 PM
@MrAnubis I get training as well, but they expect me to catch up quickly. I feel I know a lot more Java than C++ so I'm not too worried.
 
Dammit, my magnificent plan to get rid of all the weird metafunction calling syntax won't work.
:(
 
I'd say knowing Java is more about knowing the libraries, there's nothing too esoteric about the language itself (AFAIK)
But C++ is way awesomer because of things sitting right there in the language standard that scare many people
2
 
I cannot pass constexpr functions as function pointers and maintain the constexprness :(
 
@RMartinhoFernandes really? Is that your compiler or the standard talking?
 
@keithlayne That's pretty much it. Hence why I LOVE Java. Ha ha
 
9:08 PM
@keithlayne +1 , std::reverse(AVAJ) sucks :D
 
@keithlayne Actually, neither. I have yet to try it, but I have a strong suspicion it doesn't work.
:)
 
@LewsTherin oh man, that's not a fun attitude
 
@keithlayne I don't mind C++. But it gives me headache
 
@LewsTherin Don't worry, that's normal.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes unless I'm confused, you're talking about passing function pointers at runtime, right? My understanding was that constexpr functions behaved pretty well at runtime.
 
9:09 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes How did you declare your function pointer?
 
@keithlayne No, I want to call it at compile-time.
 
hmm.....
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah cool, I will get back to it.. someday
Got vim
it doesn't look too bad. That must have been vi..
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I confess, I can't imagine exactly what you're trying to do there
 
@KerrekSB int (*f)(int). Why? Can I say it's a pointer to a constexpr function?
@keithlayne Fooling around mostly. Got a shiny new compiler yesterday.
OMG it works.
 
9:13 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I think you have to!
 
I don't need to!
constexpr int app(int (*f)(int), int x) {
    return f(x);
}

constexpr int f(int x) {
    return x * 2;
}

static_assert(app(&f, 2) == 4, "");
This works.
Awesome!
 
What did you change?
 
Nothing.
I hadn't tried it yet.
 
D'oh
 
I really thought it wouldn't work.
Oh damn.
 
9:15 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes now I get it.
that's kinda awesome
 
:1908505 Yes. You could say int x[f(3)] and it would make an array of 6 elements.
Now, to the next level.
 
constexpr seems c++11 feature , i am good away from it :)
 
@MrAnubis Yes, it's C++11.
Now I want to pass a template function. That's not possible, is it?
 
Ok I hate vim
 
9:17 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes cool , but declaration of f has be prefixed with constexpr in this case , right?
 
yes
 
@MrAnubis Yes, otherwise it doesn't work because it won't be evaluated at compile-time.
 
ha ha my kids want to play uno, this is interesting though, I'll have to check back
 
constexpr int f(int x) {
    std::cin>>x; return x; // will this also work?
}
 
9:19 PM
@MrAnubis haha, no. constexpr functions are limited.
 
The indentation doesn't work!
 
You can only have a single statement in it, and it must be a return made of only constexpr and constant stuff.
 
aah
 
So, you can't open files at compile-time. :)
 
Has anyone used GNU Gettext?
 
9:21 PM
Not me.
 
is that i18n or am i confused?
 
Dammit, there's no syntax to pass function templates.
 
Facepalm I got indentation working on g-edit
 
Lemme guess, you turned it on.
 
Rofl
Don't know how I missed that
 
9:28 PM
28 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Are you sure you're not missing some setting or something?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah that's why I checked again, and vim scared the lights outta me
 
lol
27 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
(What have I done? Either I inspired another fanatic or scarred a kid for life)
I guess it was the latter then.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes ha ha yes
 
@keithlayne Yes, it's about making literal strings internationalized.
Like a mini database.
 
iostreams really suck for that.
Boost.Format recommended.
 
9:32 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes @RMartinhoFernandes If I have nightmares I know who to blame...
 
It's supported by the new Boost.locale, but you still need the tools to author it.
 
(or printf if you're into that kind of crap.)
@KerrekSB Oh, cool.
 
@KerrekSB the gettext format you're talking about there?
Is that all those .po files?
 
Yep
Somehow you need a tool that extracts the template from your sourcecode and them makes scaffolds for the translations.
 
I'm sure you know that I'm an American...
and therefore have no need for petty things like unicode, i18n, and l10n
 
9:35 PM
Yeah, keep your silly dates for yourselves :P
 
@KerrekSB how big a project you talking?
surely that tool exists anyway, right?
 
how to make type parameter friend of template class? e.g
template <typename T>
class foo{
friend class T;
};
it gives error
 
friend template class T; ????
I'm pretty sure I'm wrong
 
I don't think that's possible.
 
so is it just easier to camp out here and ask you expert-type dudes the questions rather than screwing around on SO?
 
9:42 PM
:)
Well, sometimes it's really best to ask on the main site.
 
@keithlayne only if you need live support? :D
 
I mean, I started to wonder what you guys do besides answer c++ questions on SO. Then I entered chat, and found out.
Apparently, you're all robots.
 
@keithlayne You think we only talk about C++ here?
You're dead wrong, sir.
We mostly talk nonsense.
 
by the way only @RMartinhoFernandes is robot here :)
 
All the big guns with big reps and memorized references to the standard were in here.
 
9:45 PM
This room is known for being permanently off-topic.
 
@keithlayne I'm not a robot damn you. I have feelings...
 
lol
 
Hey! That hurt! I have feelings too.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes not at all...I just meant that you guys never sleep, nor eat, work, etc. (apparently) (apparently is a hilarious word)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Then we can both be hurt together :(
 
9:47 PM
he didn't mean robot thing seriously? did he? then I must tell I also have feeling
 
@keithlayne Sleep is for weaklings, food is irrelevant, work requires effort.
 
@LewsTherin from which movie man? :D
 
@MrAnubis It's not from any movie.. lol
 
you guys are way more fun than the first crowd I stumbled upon in here
 
When was that?
> I didn't lie Kenneth, I massaged the truth — Jack Donaghy
 
9:53 PM
I never watched that show
Well, the *first* time I showed up I made a python joke about time travel
It didn't go over so well
> @RMartinhoFernandes You mean time travel?
> @keithlayne from __future__ import X. Don't know what they call it.
 
There there was that dude who couldn't take a joke
 
@keithlayne who?
 
Don't mind the puppy, he's a cool guy. A bit harsh sometimes, though.
 
lol @deadMG then
 
10:04 PM
he freaked out a little
but now I have power of invisibility over him
 
I don't know how old you guys are, where you're from, what you do, or anything
I know that all of us have some kind of interest in C++, and that's it
 
Well, you can see that in some of our profiles.
Most of us are from Europe.
 
shh, smartass, I'm on a roll
I want to use some strong words about that dude, but I also want to give him the benefit of the doubt
 
@keithlayne what does that supposed to mean ? lol
 
10:07 PM
See, I've been in a decided blue-collar job for the last 10 years. I'm poor. I'm a US Army soldier. (soon to be done)
@MrAnubis which part?
 
@keithlayne wow
 
Sorry, what's a blue-collar job?
 
It's just that this is a nerdy forum, and I'm pretty nerdy, but I also usually break some bones on faces and my hands when people talk to me like that guy
hmmm....how can I relate that? Menial?
 
@keithlayne don't you're dare to have war with robots :D
 
@keithlayne Oh, so it's one of those where people actually do things.
 
10:09 PM
@MrAnubis my war days are over, buddy
 
sbi
@keithlayne I'm old, I'm from Berlin, Germany, and I usually take care of my kids (many). Work hinders that, sometimes.
 
Not at all like marketeers.
Hi @sbi.
 
@keithlayne i didn't mean that seriosuly
 
Oh, my point wasn't really to tell about me, though it's great to hear about you guys
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Hi. What did you eat today?
 
10:11 PM
@MrAnubis I assume people are kidding, and people should assume I am too. It helps keep bones intact.
 
@sbi I actually cooked for lunch :)
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh! What?
 
anybody else here have kids?
 
A US Army soldier is poor?
 
@LewsTherin you alive?
aah seems alive
 
10:12 PM
@MrAnubis Yeah had to do the do
 
@sbi Rice, fish, and carrots.
 
@LewsTherin ... well, it's all relative, but here, relatively, yes
 
sbi
@keithlayne Of course, many have kids. Have you never seen any?
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh. You're practicing this one?
 
@sbi you got me.
 
@keithlayne That's weird.. how do you define poor though?
 
10:13 PM
@sbi :)
I tried the spaghetti sauce you taught me the other day (with meat this time) and @awoodland helped me save it when I had an accident with the herbs.
 
@LewsTherin relatively.
 
@keithlayne An example salary ?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh. What accident was that?
 
@LewsTherin That's a little personal for a first date isn't it?
 
Nov 15 at 12:54, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Ok, imagine that was cooking and, let's call it an accident, I made the sauce way too spicy. Is it counterable?
 
10:15 PM
@keithlayne he wants example though :D
 
@keithlayne We're not dating, I'm already married to my computer. Just among friends :)
 
sbi
@keithlayne Here's a hint: This is not a dating site. I'm sorry to break the news to you.
 
@keithlayne I just wanted to test out those boost features... I don't think the size of the project matters.
The question is whether and how one automates the process.
 
My base pay after about 9yrs, as a Sergeant is US$2800/month
...but it's a little more complicated than that, with tax allowances, healthcare, etc
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah, that one. I remember. I knew the thing about yoghurt, but not about the cream.
 
10:17 PM
hey there
 
@KerrekSB ah, I thought you were facing a big PITA maybe
 
@keithlayne What the... I thought it would be higher. Jeez, why'd I want to be a freaking soldier then?
 
I would think the tools are there though
 
@keithlayne I'm sure there are. I just don't know them and was hoping someone might have experience with that.
 
@KerrekSB It's called xgettext.
 
10:19 PM
@LewsTherin now that I told you my salary, can you tell me where you're from? not that I'd want you to give away any trade secrets
 
Then there are fancy tools to simplify translation with UIs and shit. You know, it's for translators.
 
It may be totally different where you're at
...and translaters are dumber than...
 
@keithlayne I'm from a place where the trees whisper songs of love, where the skies twinkle with the promise of many pleasures.
 
@keithlayne No, I mean that translators are not necessarily used to the kind of environments programmers are.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I know, you should be aware at this point that I'm a little sarcastic every now and then
 
10:22 PM
Damn, that's not going to work out well :(
 
@LewsTherin seems like you're from porn website lol
 
@MrAnubis well played sir
 
@MrAnubis Loool, that is but one of many pleasures :)
 
@sbi Have you started reading The Mote?
 
sbi
@MrAnubis That might be news to you, but there's places other than pornsites where one can find poetry.
 
10:24 PM
You can find poetry in pornsites?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Of course. Best poetry ever. I actually understand it :D
 
@sbi the only poetry I've ever found there is unintentional haiku with dirty words
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes No I haven't. I twice forgot to take my book for commuting this week, so I'm not finished with it yet. :(
 
@keithlayne anyway, I haven't introduced myself yet :) I'm from Portugal, I'm 24, and apparently I'm still a student.
 
right on
 
10:26 PM
@LewsTherin xD
 
@sbi Oh, ok, then. The Mote is one of my favourite books ever (you know, the desert island kind). Tell me what you think when you read it.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I will.
 
@LewsTherin saw movie gran torino ? , awesome movie , give it a look
 
@MrAnubis Not seen it yet. And I'm bored, so might as well :) I also have Captain America to watch
 
10:30 PM
@LewsTherin Captain America ? seriously? you just wasted your bandwidth again :D
 
@MrAnubis I used the college's :D :D Why? I was told it was a decent movie
 
Someone's decent movie is someone else's piece of crap.
 
@LewsTherin it is good but story is ok-ok
 
....see? everything's relative
I heard CPT America had big man-boobs
 
10:32 PM
Moobs!!!
 
Gran Torino is outstanding though
 
@MrAnubis Well I will give it a go ha ha
Can't wait for Avengers.
 
@LewsTherin good one?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Someone's decent X is someone else's piece of crap.
 
10:35 PM
@sbi Spoken like a true C++ programmer.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes You mean I templatized it? :)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Uh, I didn't get it..
 
@LewsTherin It's generic now. Like a template.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes @sbi Were you referring to the sci-fi book The Mote in God's Eye?
 
10:36 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Why is it a template? I thought X was just a variable.
 
@keithlayne Yes.
 
@LewsTherin cool promo man! always had imagined what'd be movie like if all superhero are in same movie , this is the one!
 
sbi
@keithlayne Yep. He suggested it when I asked what to read next.
 
@LewsTherin Dammit, it's a template, because it's not as good a joke otherwise.
 
@MrAnubis Have you seen Xmen :)
 
10:38 PM
@LewsTherin and that god of thunder too lol
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Uh, why does it make a difference?
@MrAnubis Thor!!! The movie was too short :(
 
@LewsTherin Templates are cool and C++ specific. Variables are not C++ specific.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Templates are in Java though...
 
I had never heard of it (surprisingly), but it's plugged by Heinlein, who I like (google is wonderful)
 
and in D too
 
10:39 PM
@LewsTherin You mean generics? Nowhere near the same.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh for real? Dang.. How come?
 
java generics cheat in the implementation I think
 
@LewsTherin They're not as flexible.
 
C++ templates are really very flexible ( though i don't know them much)
 
c++ templates are turing-complete I think
 
10:40 PM
@jalf I was supposed to start playing Beyond Good & Evil but I ended up fixing the VS2010 build of my little Tetris / STM thingy.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I really want to learn templates. But I have never seen a practical reason to write templates.
 
@LewsTherin you have much to learn, young jedi
 
@keithlayne turing-complete ?
 
@keithlayne Yeah, and Heinlein acted as a consultant to Niven and Pournelle.
 
@keithlayne Everyone tells me that, stop picking on me guys lol
 
10:42 PM
@keithlayne C++11 is out , so everyone has to learn much (but i have to learn very very... much then)
 
sbi
@LewsTherin It's been long ago since I wrote C++ and did not see a reason to write templates. Very long, actually.
 
@MrAnubis I have to learn very very very much
 
@MrAnubis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_completeness
Of course, I can't be bothered to read that right now, but essentially means that any program can be represented with a particular language
@MrAnubis well played, sir
 
@sbi Wait, so I shouldn't be worried? I thought it was me...
Oh wait
damn I see. I should be very worried.
 
No, he meant that he sees a reason pretty much every time.
 
10:43 PM
@keithlayne i am not sir , more stupid than any here , also i'm just 23 :D
@sbi is only sir here :)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Should it be "did not see a reason not to write templates?"
 
sbi
@MrAnubis I'll "sir" you.
 
He meant that (the last time he didn't see a reason to write them), was a long time ago.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh right. Yeah. So when does one write templates?
 
@LewsTherin have you read much about them? For me, I started using the STL, then moved to using generic algorithms, then to writing simple template classes. I'm very interested now in template metaprogramming and other goodies. C++11 aside, there is tons to dig around in in C++, especially if you don't have tons of time to dedicate.
 
10:47 PM
@keithlayne I read a bit about it. But not enough to tell me when to write one..
 
@sbi does your sentence contains double meaning? it's like you're always mad on me :)
 
@Lews if you've used the standard library, then you've used them. The simplest use case is probably writing a template specialization for a standard library function for one of your types.
 
@keithlayne When to write one..
 
@LewsTherin Pretty much, once you start, the possibilities seem limitless, you want to templatize everything.
 
sbi
@LewsTherin I use templates whenever I want some algorithm/type to work for different types. Or when I'm too lazy to spell out a complicated iterator type.
 
10:50 PM
The things have a habit of getting everywhere.
 
sbi
@MrAnubis Actually I find it a pretty clear and obvious meaning.
 
Once you start, they spread like wildfire.
 
The code have seen here using templates posted here all look messy.
 
Yeah, it gets messy sometimes.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes you should post some of your metafunctions
 
10:51 PM
someone recently had said "You never stop learning templates" , i find it very true and others too i guess?
 
I read an argument about which keyword is better to use to declare template parameters...I had never even considered the ramifications
 
do you mean class and type
type makes more sense to me.
 
@MrAnubis Maybe ask Stroustrup, he'd probably say yes...anyway, metaprogramming techniques are being discovered still I think, and cxx11 will continue that
 
My most recent exploits involved an adapter to use Boost.Fusion with std::tuple.
 
@LewsTherin class vs. typename
 
10:54 PM
@keithlayne What's the ramifications. Yeah typename makes more sense to me.
 
See, I have barely read about MPL, not even skimmed Fusion
 
What's the ramifications?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes your code always goes above the sky beneath which i live :0 (pretty hard for me as always :)
 
there are rules about typename and where it can and can't be used, and it can cause ambiguity possibly in the template declaration. class seemed lame to me, but you see it in STL source, but I think boost uses typename
sorry, I type slow
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh my God. That isn't programming you alien.
 
10:57 PM
I added my narrow/wide conversions to the FPAs.
 
@keithlayne I will pretend to understand that :D
 
@LewsTherin That one was actually pretty straightforward. The code is very repetitive.
 
Hardest topic in templates is overload resolution as i heard
 
@LewsTherin sorry
 
@RMartinhoFernandes God! Chatting in this room about C++ makes me sad.
 
10:58 PM
@KerrekSB I can't see the header names after the #includes.
 
@keithlayne The fault is mine :)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I use CDATA marked sections :-)
Lesser browsers don't handle those :-(
If you like to remove those and replace them by entity references, I'd be happy to upload that.
 
most of here are boost lib lovers
 
What? Damn you Firefox.
 
@KerrekSB same here, chromium not okay?
 
10:59 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes You can just view the page source, it's ac C++ anyway
 

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