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10:01 AM
@Mr.Meshuggah good grief
 
user2862309
Exactly!
 
I mean my general opinion of that is that it's a mess and I'm not really sure where to go with it
Which I realise isn't particularly helpful
 
@DaveRandom I believe I met you last night :D
tho I didn't realise till afterwards, that it was you
 
@Farkie We have met before anyway :-P
several times...
 
True
but name behind face
 
10:03 AM
I am... not at my best today
 
lol
 
Hey guys one question. How critical it is if i use url variable like this ?&var=1 instead of ?var=1 (speaking of first variable).
 
I've met you a few times, without realising you were @DaveRandom :D
 
btw @Farkie I have Stevan Goode's Elephpant at home, I tweeted him but I'm not actually sure which guy it was :-/
 
user2862309
@BikerJohn not really?
 
10:04 AM
fail
he was the guy sat on the chair
 
user2862309
You guys are Brittish, right?
 
rather than the sofas
 
@Mr.Meshuggah so there is no problem if it stays like that?
 
user2862309
@BikerJohn it is just an appenditure for multiple GET params I have tried it and it works
 
user2862309
It is just not pretty
 
10:05 AM
@Mr.Meshuggah great, thank you very much :))
 
user2862309
No problem.
 
@Farkie the tall guy?
With glasses I think?
 
He did have glasses, dark brown hair
 
OK right yeh I think I know who it was... any idea where he lives/works etc?
@Mr.Meshuggah yes
 
user2862309
Jolly good!
 
10:09 AM
:-P
 
user2862309
I am in the Netherlands, nearby :D
 
11am hunger is real!
 
@Mr.Meshuggah we have a few of your types around here
fricken stoners
:-P
 
smoking dem marijuanas
 
user2862309
I am Belgian, so I don't know what you are talking about :D
 
user2862309
10:11 AM
Btw a friend of mine in Manchester told me you guys smoke more than the Dutch.
 
Unsurprising tbh
 
user2862309
Because it is illegal.
 
So yeh @Mr.Meshuggah I think you probably need to try and separate all these methods into a few traits of related things, which will help you see the wood for the trees and work out how to actually fix it properly
The end goal should really be to have no static calls at all (probably)
 
user2862309
Yes, working on it already. I think that's the best option, just that I have never dealt with shitty code before so it kind of hits me when I see such things.
 
user2862309
Yeah, sure
 
user2862309
10:12 AM
Why are you so reluctant to using static calls?
 
@Mr.Meshuggah because they introduce hard coupling which makes code harder to change and test
 
@Mr.Meshuggah Tight coupling, hard to test, hidden dependencies, often hidden logic
 
user2862309
I still don't see what is hard coupling in terms of utility functions being static?
 
utility functions are usually misplaced functions
 
user2862309
If I have static functions that just process/parse some data and are not linked with anything else?
 
10:15 AM
@Mr.Meshuggah Foo::bar() <-- the code the writes this can only ever use Foo's implementation of bar()
 
user2862309
@Gordon can you elaborate?
 
user2862309
@DaveRandom well if it is something like absolute value I don't see how many implementations could there be.
 
@Mr.Meshuggah by virtue of InformationExpert, methods should be on the objects holding the most information in order to fulfill the logic in the method. it's a matter of cohesion.
 
git question. If I change a project name containing my repo on the website. How do I update my local repo to reflect those changes as it's saying 'Error: Project was not found as 'fabsrepo'.'
 
@Fabien Are you look for git remote set-url origin <new url> ?
 
user2862309
10:17 AM
@Gordon I kind of not understand that, I feel a bit dumb. Can you give me an example?
 
edit .git/config I usually do ... there's probably some magic git command tho ...
do what chris said yeah ...
 
Cheers guys
 
General Responsibility Assignment Software Patterns (or Principles), abbreviated GRASP, consists of guidelines for assigning responsibility to classes and objects in object-oriented design. The different patterns and principles used in GRASP are: Controller, Creator, Indirection, Information Expert, High Cohesion, Low Coupling, Polymorphism, Protected Variations, and Pure Fabrication. All these patterns answer some software problem, and in almost every case these problems are common to almost every software development project. These techniques have not been invented to create new ways of working...
 
user2862309
Thank you
 
@Mr.Meshuggah In 5 years, you will hate 5-years-ago-you for saying that
 
10:20 AM
so if you have a class Utilities and it has methods like toUpperCase and parseUrl and doRandomStuff then it's pretty obvious that the class has low cohesion because these things are unrelated. Actually, anything called Utilities is already indicative of that due the generic name.
 
5 years? more like 5 weeks.
 
5 weeks if he sticks around ... and listens :)
 
user2862309
@DaveRandom haha really, why?
 
user2862309
Thank you people, really useful information
 
user2862309
Ok, thank you
 
@Mr.Meshuggah because of the unpredictable project that suddenly requires the absolute value to be forced to be a string or something. Essentially, it costs very little to avoid a situation where you cannot swap things out. You may not need to now, but that doesn't mean you won't ever need to, and on that day you will hate the guy that took the shortcut that means you now have to spend 2 days on a job that would have taken 2 hours
 
Normally I am against the separation of blacks and whites... but it really annoys me when I see coffee granules in my sugar.
 
user2862309
@DaveRandom Oh I see, yeah, better not use static if that is the case
 
> and on that day you will hate the guy that took the shortcut that means you now have to spend 2 days on a job that would have taken 2 hours
and that's the difference between an easy solution and a simple solution
 
user2862309
10:24 AM
@Gordon I totally have that
 
user2862309
The guy here mixed general functionality with specific functionality in an abstract class, I am trying to separate things now
 
@Mr.Meshuggah Read this too. The Power of Technical Debt
 
OMG this is fantastic: youtube.com/watch?v=2gfuYjujkwI
 
user2862309
 
user2862309
and he said quote "If I have to believe all those guides, I shouldn't program at all, stupid fucks"
 
10:28 AM
@Gordon Played Borderlands (or more specifically Borderlands 2)?
 
@Fabien no
@Mr.Meshuggah maybe he shouldnt
 
You should check it out if you like the above humour you linked :)
 
user2862309
Yeah :D
 
user2862309
@Gordon he decided to implement his own promises using a setInterval of 100ms to check whether all ajax requests are finished and I asked him why he did it like this and he said cause it is too much hustle to go at the callback of each function and set a check facepalm
 
user2862309
I told him about the Promises concept and he said quote "This is something new and not really well tested so I don't like using things that I don't know how they work and if they work well at all"
 
10:32 AM
@Mr.Meshuggah your colleague is a chump ...
 
A straight up busta
 
user2862309
Haha, yeah I know, that is why I am asking you people because I know that many of you are active participants in the building of a better PHP so you can provide me with much more truthful information.
 
Well... we may be talking crap too.
Read and read a lot and formulate your own opinion is the crux.
 
user2862309
Yes, that's what I try to do, I try also to find best fit technologies for particular cases but sometimes you know it takes time to fix something big, especially if other people working with you have high opinion on their skill set and don't allow you to do such things.
 
PHP sucks.
5
 
user2862309
10:34 AM
Haha, no shit
 
@Fabien I disagree. Read and read a lot and then accept my opinion as the single source of truth.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum sucks
 
@Gordon lol
 
user2862309
I don't hate PHP but I am sad about some things
 
@JoeWatkins PHP is as good of a programming language as C is :D
 
user2862309
10:35 AM
Many of them listed here -> phpsadness.com
 
user2862309
@BenjaminGruenbaum trololololo lo lo lo, lo lo lo, lo lo lo
 
Morning
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum not biting ... don't need too ... 80%
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum nice try
@DanLugg woops, my cache was renewed just now.. so - morning, unknown avatar
 
lol, that avatar makes my nose look exceedingly larger than it is
 
10:37 AM
+you can find things that suck about almost anything ...
 
Morning Dan
 
moin
 
@JoeWatkins right, php just makes it very easy :D
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Did you decide on your deployment service for the mail?
 
find me a perfect language, find me a language with 0 wtf's ... I'll show you a delusion ;)
 
10:38 AM
@JoeWatkins D ;-)
 
@DanLugg still testing them.
@JoeWatkins oh boy, go find me WTFs in Python :D
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Cool. For the record, I'd give Bronto a B-, as there's room for improvement by it works well enough. MailChimp might be your best be through for API driven automation.
 
Or just say fuck it, and do an in-house.
 
user2862309
@JoeWatkins when can we expect PHP to be rappidly improved in terms of speed
 
10:41 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Offside rule. It's not a "wtf", but if I can't program comfortably, then why the fuck am I doing it?
 
@JoeWatkins german
:D
 
^^ lol
 
@Gordon very good :D
 
@Gordon Really? KUGELSCHREIBER!
 
10:42 AM
@Gordon german has umlauts :D
 
kumquats?
 
@DanLugg :D
 
the most powerful sourcerer in the world ... itsy bitsy living space ... even with really awesome stuff, there is drawbacks ...
 
user2862309
@Gordon SCHMETTERLING is such a beautiful word for such a gracious creature
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum That and single expression lambdas. If Python was C-syntaxed, and had multi-statement blocks, it'd be the perfect language.
 
10:44 AM
@Mr.Meshuggah yes, of course. Much better than butterfly. I mean, it's neither a fly nor has it anything to do with butter.
 
that
 
Flutterby is a much more appropriate name.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum lack of interfaces/type hinting and using lots of error checking aka ducktyping instead? :/
 
@Fabien Nah, ampersand-knuckler is far more descriptive.
 
10:47 AM
although admittedly, Schmetterling comes from an old slavic term for butter, so it pretty much means butterling in german. presumably because butterflies like butter.
 
urm the cats premise is flawed ... honey bees (or badgers, if you like) don't taste like honey, nor do we expect them too ...
 
that's because it's a cat; it's premise is flawed because it's ego-centric nature prevents it from rationalizing the world around it according to anything other than it's own flawed perception, without account of the wisdom of colleagues.
 
do they actually like butter ?
 
I ninja edited that.
 
heh ampersand-knuckler
 
10:50 AM
+100 ninja points for @DanLugg
> Old English, from butter + fly2; perhaps from the cream or yellow colour of common species, or from an old belief that the insects stole butter.
 
fuck, I have a raging tooth-ache -- wisdom teeth: the only thing wise about them are the people who have them removed.
 
@DanLugg Aids teeth.
 
@DanLugg If it's really bad see a dentist to ensure they're coming in correctly.
 
yeah I had to have one removed as soon as it came in ...
 
You need to see a dentist btw, if you get an abscess.. they're so bad
 
10:52 AM
codiene ftw
 
s/codiene/rum/
Yea, all my wisdom teeth go through this about 9 months apart.
They've been doing it since I can remember; I think I'm teething, like, honestly, that they're just cutting the gum again in the back.
I reckon I'll check into a dentist in a week, provided it hasn't subsided.
 
if you do it now they'll squish the pain ...
 
are people w\out wisdom teeth naive?
 
@Gordon afaik
 
@JoeWatkins Yea, but if I get it taken out (or anything done to it) it'll probably kibosh my weekend for which I have planned a lot of shirtless drinking in a canoe.
So, I'll wait until the hangover wears and if the pain is still there, dentist time.
 
10:56 AM
don't let them take it out ... they could just give you better painkillers than you can buy ...
 
lol, not than I can buy ;-)
 
don't let them extract it without good reason anyway ...
from the shelf I meant :D
 
I think my buddy keeps em' on a shelf...
:-P
 
tranqs won't work properly you know ...
 
Not tranqs. But I'm more-or-less kidding anyway. I really just need anti-inflammatories.
High-octane ibuprofen!
 
10:58 AM
I take ibuprofen + something with codeiene in it, but the stuff from the shelf is crap, the stuff from a dentist/doctor has much more in it ...
 
And that's what I shall do :-) (though, I probably won't go to the dentist to get it, and just double the dose of something else)
 
I registered at a doctor yesterday, to get my records they had to contact my doctor from when I was a 9-11 year old boy ...
well the stuff on the shelf has a bunch of paracetamol in it, and that's bit risky maybe ... unless you are trying to dilute your blood for some kind of experiment ...
8mg of codiene to 500mg of paracetamol ... crappy ...
very nearly pointless
 
I dunno, I think here in yonder Canada our regulations are a bit more permissive of the quantity.
 
@JoeWatkins I smoke Pot.
It makes all the pain go away.
 
11:11 AM
preaching to the choir @SecondRikudo
 
@DanLugg ah ah ... maybe ...
 
@DanLugg Oil of cloves - available from boots.
s/boots/most pharmacies
 
gross stuff ...
mostly ends up everywhere and takes paint off shit ...
there's some stuff called oragel on the shelves here ... much easier to use, works for about 5-10 minutes so well that you can eat where there was unbearable pain before ...
but seems to return with a vengence ... alright if you haven't eaten anything decent for a few days tho ...
 
@Danack Already have some, actually :-)
 
11:23 AM
@DanLugg Does it work at all for you?
 
user2862309
Joe Watkins, btw I had no money last week because the Tax authorities hit me because of a bill from 3 years ago
 
user2862309
it is good that I have some friends to help me with some money for food
 
that sucks ... it is good to have friends that can help :)
 
Feel yourself inside Hollywood movie: map.ipviking.com
 
@Danack Haven't tried it myself; girlfriend swears by it, she had a toothache not long ago.
 
user2862309
11:25 AM
@JoeWatkins I know that is why I asked you because for me it is easy, I am a single person, but you have children to feed
 
user2862309
so one can imagine it's not that simple
 
11:39 AM
emm ... how can I position the FB.login() popup ?
 
@DanLugg Put some on your tongue then try to talk. Always good for a laugh.
 
user2862309
@JoeWatkins github.com/krakjoe?tab=contributions&from=2014-06-01 you work even on sundays and saturdays :D
 
@rdlowrey btw you still have a require of "rdlowrey/alert": "0.10.2 as 0.9.0", in Artax - it seems to work...but is confusing as anything.
 
BTW @JoeWatkins Have you spoken to the docs about the whole pre-diabetic thing?
 
12:09 PM
 
@Fabien Madness :D
@Mr.Meshuggah Best code is written in the weekends!
 
user2862309
@Naruto too much sun to miss the beach
 
Depends what your goals are ;)
 
user2862309
true
 
user2862309
But in this goddamn country when there is sun only 60 days a year
 
user2862309
12:12 PM
I prefer to use the 8 weekends during those days to go to the beach
 
guys, a new room to discuss about android L
 
user2862309
@DaveRandom
 
user2862309
 
I hate facebook with passion
 
user2862309
@tereško how so?
 
12:18 PM
Facebook, somehow, bothers me less than Google these days
 
user2862309
How so?
 
@tereško I do not care about Facebook. Without passion.
 
@AlmaDo ... it must be nice to work in a place, where nobody thionks that using FB for login is a good idea
 
@tereško what is "facebook login" after all?
 
@AlmaDo Passionately apathetic? :D
 
12:20 PM
@AndreaFaulds ehm, no. I do not care about how I do not care
 
Oh.
@AlmaDo Apathetically apathetic.
 
@AndreaFaulds no, *RECURSION*
like
$iDontCare = ['about'=>&$iDontCare];
 
user2862309
Haha nice
 
user2862309
array(1) {
  ["about"]=>
  &array(1) {
    ["about"]=>
    *RECURSION*
  }
}
 
that's a concept
 
12:27 PM
You're writing a REST api. Would you use 503 Service Unavailable (temporary) if something is going wrong on your server that needs to be fixed? Means you're saving face instead of returning a 500, and a 503 is temporary anyway...
 
of what do I not care (:
 
@Jimbo I think 503 is used when the service is down entirely, right? Like under a DoS for example?
 
user2862309
@AlmaDo to understand recursion you must understand recursion
 
@Jimbo in these circumstances it really doesn't matter
 
> The server is currently unavailable (because it is overloaded or down for maintenance). Generally, this is a temporary state.
or it's currently unavailable because of my bad code. Same thing, right?
@AlmaDo But it looks better from a clent perspective instead of seeing "omg 500 their servers are crap" it's "503, oh they have engineers fixing something right now"
 
12:29 PM
it may be difference if it's some continuous interaction (so external side would know that is' temporary and may try to react something (like delayed query repetition) to that)
that's my point, of course
 
@AndreaFaulds DoS, bad coding.. either way you don't want to tell them that your api sucks with a 500, so I'm proposing a 503 to say "it's only temporarily down"
 
if it's about just "one single query" and you're looking on it as on independent entity, then - no difference. Both things are same (you've lost face) and the only thing to notice is "how badly" did you lose your face - but, I believe, it's irrelevant for the client in such case
 
How badly, yep! :D (I'd like to make this less badly)
 
503 suggests you're actually blocking requests under load, 500 suggests your site is poorly made and letting your server get overloaded :P
 
 
12:33 PM
@Jimbo again - it makes sense when it can be used,. For instance, it's continuous interaction, like: Request: provide me the data! => Response: Woops, we have troubles, but here's my 503: we'll be back soon! Request (thinks) A-ha, I'll try to repeat my attempt in $timeout seconds.. {timeout passed} Request: provide me the data!
 
@AlmaDo This is a fair point, they'll just keep looping on their end until I fixed the problem though ;)
 
@Jimbo yes, but if client doesn't care about that (or simply can not perform such interaction) - then either 500 or 503 are same
 
Okay okay, from a robot -> robot perspective, 500 makes the most sense then
Might make it a 418
 
and also, you should be able to distinct your 503 from 500, i.e. - when your troubles are just a temporary rainy cloud or when it's the hurricane
because if you'll always respond in 503, you're under risk to get DDoS by your own clients (and it's the worst case since you're already in troubles)
 
Okayyyyy, 500 it is -.-
 
12:37 PM
:D
 
12:50 PM
Today is JS jquery day.
If the slider sucks build it yourself!
BIY
 
Oh boy guys
phpng vote has begun
Prepare for a lot of whining and bickering in internals... =/
 
@AndreaFaulds RFCs really ought to be open for debate more than the minimum required time before going to vote.
 
@AndreaFaulds On it
 
@Danack Depends on the RFC. Some things are uncontroversial and can go to vote in 2 weeks. The intdiv() function, for example. The operator, maybe not.
 
@AndreaFaulds It's not so much the controversial-ness....I don't think there's any doubt about which way the vote is going to go (not many people are going to vote against faster) - however for massive changes like PHPNG, rushing it is not good.
@AndreaFaulds For example, the RFC impact section is almost empty, and there are no details of what is needed for the extensions to be ported.
 
12:57 PM
There's limited info on updating extensions on the wiki pages for phpng
But yeah :/
 
@AndreaFaulds even more than usual? Surely that's not even possible...
 
@AndreaFaulds link?
 

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