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9:02 PM
You're overestimating their operation
 
yum, beer
rocket jumping is hands down the best thing to do in quake
when done right it's both ultra impressive and useful
 
as opposed to rocket-eating
 
I think the only reason I play team arenas is to practice rocket jumping
 
9:18 PM
lol...
Windows 8 changed the includes for Windows :v
for some reason GetProcessId is now under processthreadsapi.h instead of WinBase.h.
Makes some sense but dang
 
I wish there was a stack overflow for high-level, architectural design rather than specific questions :\
 
> Android Overtakes iOS in Usage Stats for the First Time Ever
let's celebrate by doing nothing at all!
 
Android has had more market share than iOS forever
 
wow, Other is a pretty crappy OS
 
user3010322
9:26 PM
Lol
 
user3010322
Windows Phone barely making it.
 
all of that
switch to metro, make it mandatory
whoops, not good, bring back the start icon
wait guys, in win 9 you'll get the whole classic start menu back!
cool, let's make an android nokia phone!
wait, no, let's discontinue it
really tells me microsoft doesn't even know what they want to do really
 
windows.h so bad
._.
 
@AlexM. Microsoft isn't a single homogenous entity. Part of their problem is that they have lots of groups which have a stake in this, and all have different ideas of where to go
 
And MS phone has barely overtaken Symbian.
And it's not because of their growth...
 
9:29 PM
I liked my Symbian phones :v
They were cool.
 
me too
 
user3010322
Never had one.
 
my nokia 5530 running symbian had the best "desktop" ever
the name for the mobile desktop eludes me right now
 
I had a Compaq WinCE PDA
Back when
 
@ThePhD Sucks.
 
Xeo
9:31 PM
@AlexM. home screen?
 
home screen, yeah
thanks
 
Xeo
@ThePhD Yay, I'll have one of those tomorrow
 
boauls, making virtual function thunks and thunks in general.
 
here
I still think it's the most beautiful phone I've ever seen
but paint it black
I had the black one
 
where did you find that, a cave wall painting?
 
9:32 PM
woot, it's art
or what are you referring to?
 
Xeo
@AlexM. O2 only had the white Lumia 635, unfortunately
 
> If this is the mind set that the current MS Development team had going into Windows 7 then I'm not going to wait around for Windows 8. I will keep my fond memories of this once great API and get out before they are all replaced with rage.
lol
I used to have a Motorola Razr.
 
Xeo
I'd really have liked the black one :<
 
@Xeo does it not have changeable backplates?
 
Xeo
that's what I'm checking right now
 
9:34 PM
@AlexM. The object in the hand.
 
c'mon, the phone is beautiful
it's like a brick
 
my history lessons in school didn't go back that far into prehistory
 
buhuh
 
it also had a stylus... which was sometimes useful
 
9:34 PM
plus, I made a maximal effort to ignore them
 
sometimes not so useful
 
I sometimes us my 6300
use*
so much battery
 
Xeo
> The phone comes in black or white, but the back shells are removable, and other colors (green, yellow and orange) are available for $15 each.
Now I just need to find a place that sells that
 
carriers usually sell those here
 
Xeo
I'll have to check
Amazon also has one, for 12eur
 
9:41 PM
Paypal. Taking security one step further. http://t.co/InIckGN0sJ
 
lmao
 
Xeo
Fuck security questions.
 
I don't even know the answer to that
@Xeo I put random generated answers and store them under my KeePass notes.
 
@Rapptz Find out!
 
9:44 PM
Hmm, I think I do.
 
Well this could be cool for Oculus Rift
 
> Unfortunately, in Hebrew vowels are not always written, and the words “wives” and “debt collectors” are indistinguishable, but nevertheless Game theory in holy books
 
Who pinned this message?
 
certainly not Patricia
 
user3010322
Wait
 
9:52 PM
@Jefffrey sehe.
 
user3010322
I can't install VS 2013 on a Windows 7 computer?
 
user3010322
Someone please tell me I'm losing my mind or something.
 
@sehe Why is that message pinned? Am I missing something?
 
@Jefffrey I did. I thought this key insight was so damningly illustrative of a certain person's intellectual capabilities, it needed to be noticed by a larger audience.
 
@Jefffrey Protip: Click the "10h ago" for context.
 
9:54 PM
@Rapptz I read the context before asking.
 
@Jefffrey By the way, I explicitly explain this action some 5 messages down from that incident. (CAUTION: Wear your sarcam hat)
@Jefffrey Oops
 
@ThePhD You're nuts. I have VS2013 on Windows 7
 
Then you are missing something
 
10 hours ago, by sehe
@PolymorphicPotato I've decided to star this message. Its profound wisdom, acute insight, coupled with well-argued foundation does really merit wider audience.
 
That, and also
10 hours ago, by sehe
Also, it is an excellent example of a psychological device used to great rhetoric effect.
 
9:55 PM
lol
@sehe you are still missing something
 
No longer have the option to care
 
> sarcam
 
Golly. You don't say.
Oh pardon
> Golly
 
lol
 
user3010322
Oh. Apparently I don't have the service pack.
 
user3010322
9:57 PM
But why won't Windows Update tell me I don't have the service pack....?
 
You haven't got what it takes
 
@ThePhD Try downloading a 6 pack first.
 
@Jefffrey It'd be a lot easier than working out =/
 
But it's still Microsoft. I don't think it will work out
 
Xeo
Hm. I have to say, I quite like VMware Player's unity mode.
 
10:08 PM
unity mode.
That must absolutely top UX, because it's completely obvious what it should mean
 
Xeo
embeds the guest OS's windows into the host OS
 
@Xeo RightCtrl-F for me makeuseof.com/tag/…
 
Xeo
@sehe Oh cool, didn't know VBox also has that
 
It works pretty well
 
Of course, with guest additions (for linux, they're usually standard in kernels, AFAICT)
 
Xeo
10:12 PM
VMware Player needs the guest additions too, so yeah
 
I've been doing this shit with a hacked RDP client back with Win2k + VirtualPC (still Connectix, back then)
That was prolly around ~2002
 
welp
I think that drugs melted my brain a little too much to handle ABI details right now
 
Hey folks
 
Ell
Hi
 
@Ell ooo, there is life here then haha
 
10:23 PM
 
As an avid C++ user, I thought I'd come say hi
 
heroes 3 makes it look so easy
 
hi
 
@AlexM. hahahaha what o.o
 
@AlexM. haha, is that heroes or aow? I can't remember which is which anymore
 
10:24 PM
1 min ago, by Alex M.
heroes 3 makes it look so easy
it's age of wonders
@Borgleader some custom campaign or something dunno lol
 
@AlexM. ahh missed that
@Rapptz hey :)
@AlexM. were you on gamedev chat at one point? I remember mentions of an Alex M that got banned once
 
no, that was someone else
 
@OMGtechy Hi
 
@sehe hey
So, what sort of topics are usually discussed here? Other than C++ of course haha, I'm new to this room.
 
this guy's excitement is through the roof
 
Ell
10:28 PM
@OMG anything Nd everything
 
@AlexM. ?
@Ell the answer to that is 42 clearly
 
Ell
Of course :D
What is your current project OMG?
 
@Ell I make games mainly, although I do like solving random programming problems every now and then too. Yours?
 
Ell
Do you have any I can see? :)
 
s/see/review/
 
Ell
10:33 PM
I'm writing a cooperatively multitasked IO pump currently. In scala
 
@Ell Never used Scala, and I'm not entirely sure what that means either. My hardware typically refuses to cooperate! As for my programming things, I did have some open source ones on GitHub, but looking back on them I became ashamed of my old programming style and got rid of them haha
 
google's Venn doodle is cool :O
 
@AlexM. it is indeed!
 
Ell
@omg to be fair I did invent the name pump I think. But the basic goal of it is to be able to transform a function that does synchronous IO into an asynchronous one by passing a modified stream
 
@Ell that sounds pretty awesome
How's it going so far?
 
Ell
10:40 PM
Its going okay, I haven't actually written any code but it should be a very small project, it's just understanding delimited continuations now
 
Xeo
Yay, VN in a VM (with Japanese locale).
 
@Ell design is as much a part as implementation
 
with what WM?
 
Xeo
With seamless integration into my actual desktop
 
Ell
And there isn't all that much information on it (or my google skills are poor, which is more likely)
 
10:41 PM
@Xeo who what in a what what?
 
Ell
@OMG exactly yeah :)
 
Xeo
@LucDanton ?
Windows guest on a Windows host
if that's what you're wondering about
 
I thought we were doing a thing
 
Xeo
oh, just wanted to continue the 2-letter acronyms?
 
With gusto!
 
10:44 PM
@Ell so how do you plan for it to work at the moment? I know that's a huge question haha, but in a nutshell
 
@LucDanton We often do things.
or at least, I, the great and powerful puppy, often do things.
 
WHOA Amazon, when did my AWS storage bill drop from ~$12-14 to $4.32?
I'm gonna have to check what I'm forgetting here
 
@sehe are you complaining?
 
Of course
@Jefffrey s/review/bash/
 
10:50 PM
@Borgleader Yeah, I caught that round. Perhaps I forgot about also axing some VM images/EBS volumes since then
Gun' have a look-see
 
Ell
@OMG well basically you will create some kind of "pumping stream" with an underlying synchronous stream and then call some kind of "colaunch" function which launches the function you give it in a coroutine. It calls the method which needs the stream with the modified stream
When the modified stream is read, instead of blocking when an io operation can't be completed
The control will be returned to the original execution context until the "cofuture" is "pumped" (checked for new data and if so resume the method)
 
Nah. All family pictures are still there. CD collection in 320bps mp3, check.
 
Ell
It's difficult to explain, esp from a phone
You'll see when it's working :P
 
@Ell I'll bet. I think I understand it a bit though
And yes, even better then
I do hope you're not making it on your phone? ha
 
Ell
No I'm not haha, I'm just on my phone to chat
What kind of games do you write? Do you do art etc for them too?
 
10:55 PM
@Ell I did once look at designing a language for a mobile device, might go back into it as it'll eventually be a niche that needs filling
I wrote gambling games for a couple of companies, and tools to help them do so. I am writing a new version of an old game engine of mine at the moment, in my free time.
 
welp
 
Ell
3d?
 
drugs kicking in, time for puppy to go to bed
goodnight, cavemen, try not to smear your blood all over your wall paintings
 
Ell
Night puppy
 
@Ell gambling machines tend to be 2D, but this newer engine I am writing will support 3D yes (thought it was about time I made the leap)
I am also making an app in Unity for Android and possibly iOS
For a small games company that I'm not allowed to name yet due to an NDA
I personally prefer the gameplay logic side of things
 
11:05 PM
Is there a badge associated with having accounts on more than 20 SE sites?
 
@sehe I can't imagine there is, or at least there shouldn't be. A new user can go make 20 accounts straight away, making such a badge pointless
 
As opposed to what?
 
@OMGtechy There used to be a badge just for visiting every section of the FAQ.
 
@Borgleader So you're right; the cost reduction did more than half my bill. And the other ~30% was indeed me deleting a bunch of AMI/EBS data prior to that.
Nice. Thanks, AWS
 
why do I suck so much at python?
 
11:15 PM
The python wonders the same
 
that takes skill
be proud
 
imports always mess me up if they're not the way I'm used to :|
 
user3010322
I RETURN!
 
user3010322
It feels nice to be back in Windows 7.
 
user3010322
Even if Aero is misbehaving a little.
 
11:18 PM
suddenly
having unique_ptr::pointer point to Deleter::pointer is a good thing
:D
 
user3010322
Why so?
 
I just realised they probably did it for handles
 
user3010322
Yes.
 
user3010322
Albeit those handles still have to compare to std::nullptr_t properly.
 
user3010322
You could probably get away with a free function,
 
11:19 PM
well I know that HANDLE on Windows is void*
so not much of an issue for me
 
user3010322
Maybe.
 
no maybe
 
user3010322
In some cases it's a dummy struct.
 
A handle to an object.
This type is declared in WinNT.h as follows:
typedef PVOID HANDLE;
poor man's generic.
 
@Rapptz The right exercises can help get rid of those too... [NSFW?]
 
11:24 PM
lol
I don't know what to call this typedef thing
using /* magic */ = std::unique_ptr<void, handle_deleter>;
 
user3010322
handle
 
@Rapptz An anonymous typedef?
 
Ell
Yup
 
lol, no I meant the name of the typedef.
I was using handle but it felt bare.
 
Is it intended to hold Windows thingies? Then something like handle or handle_type? handle_ptr doesn’t seem appropriate as the handle is the pointer, not the pointee.
 
Ell
11:26 PM
I think just handle is fine
 
@LucDanton Yeah.
I guess handle is fine.
 
Will you reveal to us that handle_deleter is void(*)(void*) and will this derail into a highly-opinionated non-discussion I can only wonder.
 
nope.
struct handle_deleter {
    using pointer = HANDLE;
    void operator()(HANDLE h) const noexcept {
        CloseHandle(h);
    }
};
 
One function does it all? I clearly know nothing about the Windows API.
 
Why do people set stuff to NULL after deleting things again?
Re-usability?
 
user3010322
11:33 PM
Common practice and sometimes you reused pointers.
 
user3010322
Also helped people diagnose if they had a dead class just sitting in the stack somewhere.
 
Erroneously using that pointer variable again is more likely to yield a crash.
 
user3010322
Or a destructed reference: you'll be able to see its null, at least up until the operating system writes over the memory (which isn't actually immediately sometimes, which is nice).
 
So. That tells a story
 
Crazy wild swings.
 
11:36 PM
@sehe thats a pretty insane reduction o.o
 
Of course, the price reductions are just the planar jumps. The spikes in the beginning were mostly me experimenting and using EC2 quite a lot for bug repro work
But yeah, it took me 4 billing periods to spot that the last price drop more than halved the bill
 
I don't set my things to nullptr because I use RAII.
and reset kind of deals with it if I wanted to reuse it
 
Kate redefining Boat Programming tweet
 
If you're just using storage then I think Azure comes out cheaper
 
@sehe Is this a variant of cargo cult programming?
 
11:45 PM
I wasn't really expecting Erik Meijer there.
 
I don't think so http://i.imgur.com/rlIUCl4.png
And I'm not aware of popular CLI tooling to facilitate Azure easily on linux (mount block device/sync folders)
 
Azure doesn't bill for inbound traffic though
 
@sehe Woa
 
95
Q: What is the boat programming meme about?

Michael StumI remember some time ago there was some huge problem regarding some question that had something to do with a boat, and I think I missed that topic completely. As I see it being mentioned every now and then, I'd just like to know what it was about.

 
I take it my boat vs cargo ship pun was just terrible then =/
 
11:48 PM
Reminds me of an old story: at least supposedly, the original version of HPFS (the predecessor of NTFS) came as rather a surprise to most of MS. Gordon Letwin (one of the kernel devs) went on vacation--went for a cruise on his private yacht for a month, and took along a laptop. When he left, nobody'd really even contemplated working on a new file system. When he got back, he had it pretty much complete and debugged (written entirely in 386 assembly language, no less).
 
@Borgleader It was just beautiful. :D
 
@Borgleader yes
 
Do people really listen to SE's podcast?
 
Yes.
 
I thought it was some sort of vent for the authors.
 
11:51 PM
Try not to use wikipedia as your main references. Use it as a starting point. — slybloty Nov 12 '12 at 20:52
Unix SE is run by schoolteachers =/
 
@Rapptz Do you?
 
Nope.
 
Anybody?
 
Nope
 
Mysticial does
 
11:53 PM
@Jefffrey I've listened to at least parts of a couple, but honestly only when I couldn't get to sleep...
 
From this room.
 
I've tried once or twice
 
@sehe Boring?
 
user3010322
I think this is like the 7th time I've had to reset.
 
Too boring for me. And in-crowdy
 
11:54 PM
@DavidLively: Happy New Year — Lightness Races in Orbit 6 secs ago
 
@sehe Interesting
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol
 
@Jefffrey They try to keep it interesting, but you really need to care about their entire network for the time to make much sense--all I've listened to started with 15 minutes (or so) about new sites that have gone into public beta, but most are on topics that I'd guess are unlikely to interest most of us.
 
I had the same impression last time I tried to listen to one episode.
I barely lasted 5 minutes IIRC.
13
 
That's what she said /cc @ParkYoungBae
 
11:59 PM
you dirty bear
 
Your words, not mine
 

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