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4:00 PM
replaced with the blog link
 
:p
 
Yeah. glaringly so. It (the blog link) hit me right between the eyes. hard.
 
@Raynos: wtf ? no way to reach this chat beside knowing the url ?
 
@jAndy yes
11
Q: Eeeek! Where did the chat top navigation link go?

Octavian DamieanThe chat link in the top navigation bar is gone. Instead there is a shiny blog link. Where did the chat link go?

 
I better don't ask what in the world should that be good for or who has such ideas
 
4:01 PM
@jAndy its still there in the footer
Apparently every time there is a blog post the nav bar will mention blog instead of chat for 24 hours
 
heya, did you guys see that job offer for barrackobama.com on SO ? :D haha I was SOOO close to applicate
you'll probably get a shot to shake hands or something :p
and then.. once you're in there...
jAndy for president !
 
Oh. Good. The (unique) element <asp:ScriptManager> needs a !@#$ing ID in order to function correctly.
 
random Q: are anon functions evil?
 
@Neal no.
don't ask me to back that up though.
 
@ThomasShields can u tell that to this guy: stackoverflow.com/questions/6999071/…
 
4:07 PM
13 secs ago, by Thomas Shields
@Neal no.
 
^_^
 
they are evil in a way that it can be priitty prittyy nasty to debug a whole nested bunch of those
 
@jAndy lol i never said to nest them
 
if you name your functions all the time, your friendly debugger will just tell you where you have to look
 
@jAndy so who said you cannot name ur anon function inside the setTimeout?
and voilà - its not anon
 
user1385191
4:10 PM
beware the named function expression
 
@jAndy makes a good point. And I thought of that, but anonymous functions, in and of themselves are not evil. Kind of like guns.
 
don't disagree with the next US PRESIDANT FOR GODS SAKE !!!!
:p
 
@RyanKinal exactly.
 
user1385191
foo.bar = function baz(){//bad};
function baz() {//good};
foo.bar = baz;
 
@Neal: yes its a good way to do that, I'm doing it all the time
@MattMcDonald: I'm doing the some.fn = function _fn() {} quite alot
of course IE6+7 might have some trouble there
but I wrote a little helper method which explicitly null's those refs
it's just too convinient not to use it just because of IE6/7 memo leaks I figure
 
user1385191
4:13 PM
ah, the all-powerful null
 
user1385191
my best friend
 
jAndy = null;
later guys
 
@jAndy Later
 
i missed this room
 
user1385191
we have to wait for the gc to pick him up first
 
4:20 PM
lol
 
@MattMcDonald lies
theres nothing wrong with named function expressions
As long as you ignore IE<9
IE can go die in a ditch
 
@RyanKinal your are the man ... I have been at this for like a week.
 
user1385191
(yes, I know you know)
 
@tanktery hehe, no problem. You might want to consider doing the same thing with slideDeck, assuming there are pages without the slideDeck plugin
 
4:23 PM
@MattMcDonald I'm simply saying if you dont care about those browser then you dont care
theres nothing wrong with nfe
 
@RyanKinal can you explain this statement a bit so I can better understand what is taking place: if ($.fn.prettyPhoto)
{
$("a[rel^='prettyPhoto']").prettyPhoto();
}
 
hes doing the same feature detection
 
@tanktery Sure! Basically, I'm checking to see that the jQuery object has been modified to included the prettyPhoto function.
 
except encoding the feature in the rel attribute on the <a>
 
@Raynos Using rel is the standard way of using prettyPhoto
@tanktery When you load a jQuery plugin, it modifies the jQuery object to include itself. So, in order to see if a plugin is loaded, all you really have to do is check the jQuery object.
 
user1385191
4:26 PM
man, it's awesome finding c.l.j. posts by crockford from the early 2000s
 
(This is, of course, slightly simplified - it's actually modifying the prototype of the jQuery object)
 
@RyanKinal fn is AKA for function that is the part that I am like ok where dose that come from? yes I get the rest of the statement
 
user1385191
shame he left so early
 
@RyanKinal I thought it was a custom plugin he wrote
@MattMcDonald clj?
 
@tanktery jQuery.fn is the same as jQuery.prototype. But it's the standard way of extending jQuery
@Raynos Understood. I guess I had a bit of an advantage in that I've used prettyPhoto before.
 
user1385191
 
@RyanKinal lies
 
user1385191
he uses a few different accounts
 
its the same as jQuery.init.prototype
 
var jQuery = function(selector) {
  return new jQuery.init(selector);
}
 
4:31 PM
> jQuery.fn = jQuery.prototype = {
 
Oh
have they refactored it?
 
Huh. Interesting.
 
Oh they are the same
I just never realised it wrote to jQuery.prototype aswell
 
4:41 PM
@RyanKinal ok, so when the function is run it reads "$" JQuery "fn" (which makes more sense if it stood for function but what ever ... ) prototype check to see if prettyPhoto was insirted into the JQuery base libery/prototype there by extending it if so run the function ... ok I'm I under standing this right?
 
@tanktery Yep! Sounds like you got the important parts, if not the specifics
 
@RyanKinal lol these are not easy concepts to grasp ... this will take me some time ... I am new to the chat and new to JS so I am starting out with JQuery ... do I have to hand out points or something to you guys how dose this work?
 
@tanktery No, chat doesn't really have anything to do with rep
 
@tanktery Hahaha, that's bounties
You don't reward people on chat
 
Community ftw.
 
4:46 PM
You can offer your part of your rep on questions to promote good answers
 
@RyanKinal @Raynos well thanx guys to think I was paying expert exchange for a year and never once got this much help.
 
@tanktery Yecch. Experts Exchange.
@tanktery We just do this out of the kindness of our hearts
Or maybe bragging rights.
3
I haven't figured that out yet.
 
Hahahahaha
Maybe a mixture of both
More towards the bragging, though
 
lol @RyanKinal
 
TX again I have to go get a book on JQuery at BN later
 
4:52 PM
Pretty cool that the "awesome" tag is right above the users in this room.
 
@tanktery , you would be better off if you found a book on javascript
 
I'm never going to be able to read "tanktery" as anything other than "Tanqueray"
This is a problem.
 
if you say so
 
user1385191
I'd consider MDC + MSDN + comp.lang.javascript + ECMA specs + W3C specs a better resource than a js book
 
besides , @MattMcDonald , W3C has nothing to do with ecmascript
 
user1385191
4:56 PM
DOM
 
@MattMcDonald w00t to that
 
5:10 PM
anyone ever heard of Eric?
-1
Q: Nested windows in jQuery simpleModal

AlexanderI heard that "Nested windows" is a feature, on which Eric is working on. Has this feature been implemented? If not, what can be done instead of this? jQuery 1.5. SimpleModal 1.4.1. Thanks in advance, Alexander

 
It's @teresko \o/
 
room topic changed to JavaScript: It's @teresko day! [javascript] [awesome]
@tanktery ._.
you used experts exchange :(
@RyanKinal I defiantly do it for the bragging rights
 
@Raynos Are you multitasking? You're a little laggy today ;-)
 
@tanktery you want the definitive guide edition 6
@RyanKinal I was cooking food :(
 
5:20 PM
@Raynos Ah, makes sense :-)
 
@teresko please tell me it happens to be your birthday
that would be the best
room topic changed to JavaScript: Discussion for JavaScript and the many frameworks - jQuery, Prototype, MooTools, et al. Weekly Topic: We need one -.- [javascript] [awesome]
I put the topic back again >_>
 
Weekly Topic Suggestion: Game Programming with JS
 
@Raynos ish
 
(Since I happen to be trying to make a game)
 
@ThomasShields Using joystick DOM events? :-D
 
5:28 PM
@ThomasShields once I get my blog up and running
I'll start a game programming html5 tutorial series
 
@RyanKinal I will. finishing up the game logic and engine.
 
user1385191
what type of game?
 
@Raynos awesome.
@MattMcDonald snake, as suggested by @Raynos. Never really done any game programming before.
 
user1385191
you'll want to do a grid
 
user1385191
with modulus
 
5:30 PM
I kind of am. Here's what I have so far: jsbin.com/udavoq/4/edit
Forgive the ugliness; I'm gonna clean it up in a bit.
 
user1385191
an idea would be to track the actions of the head
 
@ircmaxell nice tie!
 
user1385191
and ensure each part of the body matches it once it hits the corresponding square
 
@MattMcDonald I can get the head fairly easily with snake[snake.length-1]
 
@Raynos Topic: Java is to Javascript as Car is to Carpet
^_^
 
5:32 PM
@Neal that's not...really...a topic.
 
@Neal but what's to discuss?
 
It's just a fact.
 
@ThomasShields or is it? :-P
@Nathan how is javascript a carpet? why isnt it the car?
^_^
 
@Neal it's a purely linguistic analogy. The analogy reflects upon linguistic inflection and prefixes, not the nature of the words chosen.
 
o_O
 
5:33 PM
Pity the poor soul who didn't realize that and isn't the guy who made MineCraft.
 
@ThomasShields ha
 
user1385191
you definitely need to make it OO, though
 
I'm going to try to. Right now I just want to see what I can do.
 
@ThomasShields jsfiddle.net/kfbRD/9
 
@Raynos whatever that is it's very buggy for me.
Half the time the keydown isn't working and it keeps skipping on the rendering.
 
5:39 PM
@Raynos it doesnt go past a certain point
 
@Neal canvas is fixed size
 
@Raynos , you are 4 month early
but i will soon have my name's day
 
RT @w3c: First Draft of HTML5: Edition for Web Authors Published http://ow.ly/1eapct
 
@Raynos hmm
 
6:14 PM
@ThomasShields jsfiddle.net/kfbRD/21
Works fine in chrome for me
 
Thanks @nathan
 
6:28 PM
@Raynos that works.
cool.
 
@ThomasShields WHY U DOM
I just realised you use divs
and stuff like that :\ instead of canvas
 
what is the difference between these statements?

$(function()
{
// code to run
});

$(document).ready(function() {
// code to run
});

(function($){
//code to run
})(jQuery);

any thoughts?
 
@Raynos because I know how and I just want to get my game logic and stuff right, for now. Then I'll make it more OO and then i'll add canvas. no sweat.
 
@tanktery 1 & 2 are the same
1 is shorter then 2 therefore better
3 is executed immediately
I prefer
// #4
jQuery(function($) {
  // code to run
});
@ThomasShields wrong way around
"making it more OO" is gonna be a pain
design it right the first time
 
@Raynos I'm almost finished my "tests", which is basically me just figuring out how to move the snake, how the game will work. Then I'm going to start from scratch and do it right.
 
6:31 PM
@Raynos why is the jQuery short hand use in such away?: ($)
 
@tanktery what do you mean?
 
I am use to seeing "$"denoting jQuery: $(function(){}); so the $ in side the () leads me to question dose is mean the same thing $ AKA jQuery?
 
$ === jQuery
it's a lazy shorthand
1 character vs 5 characters. Easier to type
 
@Raynos I get that but what dose putting the $ inside () mean?
 
Oh
it's a pattern to ensure $ always means jQuery
Other libraries also overwrite $ in the global namespace
jQuery itself passes jQuery as the first parameter to the domready callback
It's also cheaper to look up local variables then global variables
so it's a micro optimisation
 
6:40 PM
0
Q: `make` Javascript compiling/testing

LimeIs there a library intended for compiling/testing your Javascript libraries? I've noticed many common Javascript libraries like jQuery still use gnu make. Nothing is wrong with the traditional make, but I was just curious if a solution in Javascript has been crafted. Obviously using node.js yo...

 
Closure, YUI, uglify
browserify, boxjs, ender
Ender is probably what you want
 
@Raynos I don't for see using any other JS liberty aside from jQuery but if but some change I where to do so. I'm I safe in using option 4 in stead of the rest kind of a catch all as it where?
 
@tanktery that sums it up, yes.
 
@Raynos sweet!
 
@ThomasShields I recommend you use requestAnimationFrame for rendering btw
 
6:50 PM
@Raynos righto. I'll check it out. I'm assuming it's not eluding Google?
 
eluding google? :S
Oh
annoying phrases ¬_¬
 
Sorry. :D I just meant I'd be able to find out about it, right?
Without asking you for a link?
Which, at this point, I may as well have asked you.
:P
 
However browser support is chrome,ff & ie10
I guess you aught to use a shim for that
I really dont care about browser support when doing html5
 
I don't care. When I'm coding for my own learning and benefit I couldn't care what support is.
 
user1385191
6:56 PM
I really don't like that site because it's smug to the max
 
@MattMcDonald whats wrong with it?
 
@Thomas modernizr.com this will help with support for browsers.
 
@tanktery cool thanks.
I use modernizr.
 
Awesome. .NET AJAX is caching its scripts, so I can't force my app to a new version of itself. Thanks, PageMethods. Thanks.
throws his computer out the window and into the pouring rain
 
@RyanKinal take the windows server
smash it with BRICKS
BRICKS. Ryan, brick it.
 
6:58 PM
@Thomas boilerplate ships with modernizer look in to it.
 
If only.
 
is there something wrong with this code
 
@tanktery cool, thanks
@ChamaraDenipitiya press the up arrow key to edit your last message. Like so. or so. you get the picture. right?
 
Also ctrl-k to format code.
 
Ugh
I touched the power cable
@ChamaraDenipitiya no
@tanktery you would hope tom already knows about modernizr and html5boilerplate
 
7:02 PM
@Raynos but this doesn't work
 
(@Raynos I do. At least, I use modernizr and have heard of the boiler plate)
 
here is php
 
@ChamaraDenipitiya WHY U NO CODE FORMAT
Press the fixed width font button
 
@Raynos that should be "Y U NO CODE FORMAT" ;)
 
2 messages moved to bin
 
7:05 PM
@Raynos what? how
 
@Raynos I use modernizer but I am still try to figure out HTML5 PB the build scipt is what I really want learn to use
 
Shields.Thomas.imitate(Users.jAndy, function() {Shields.Thomas = null; });
later guys.
 
@tanktery PB ?
@JeffAtwood @MattMcDonald what did we do wrong?
Otherwise known as.
> The mods are here, scram!
 
@Raynos type o BP = Boiler plate
@Raynos I can only have one

(function($){
// code to run
})(jQuery);

per initialization file right?

I only ask because I am combining the slide deck query plugin and the pretty photo query plugin into one file and they are both inclosed in the above statement.
 
You can have as many as you want
but it doesnt make sense to use more then one per file
 
7:35 PM
Any python geeks in the room?
 
@Raynos ok, understood ... at the and of the PrettyPhoto plugin in the above statment is this: var pp_alreadyInitialized=false;
 
@jon3laze ask @MattMcDonald
 
user1385191
LOL
 
user1385191
I've spent a grand total of about a week or two with python
 
That's about where I am. A friend of mine convinced me that I need to use python to do the Project Euler problems.
 
7:38 PM
@jon3laze :\
use anything you want
 
user1385191
most of my time with it has been helping a friend with their compsci homework
 
you dont need to
Just as long as its not ASM
ASM is a pain in the ass for project euler
 
@Raynos I just got JavaScript The Definitive Guide, Sixth Edition for my iPad is this a good book for beginners?
 
It's a reference book
 
user1385191
blech, the new tag editor is annoying as hell
 
7:42 PM
It's a good book
but it's big and dry
but do use the definitive guide as a reference
@tanktery this is a good book : oreilly.com/catalog/9780596517748
The good parts is probably the book about JS
 
user1385191
it's more of an essay, but yes
 
user1385191
what surprises me is how crock was talking about this stuff as early as 2003
 
user1385191
and yet, nobody picked up on it until the book
 
@Raynos last question does one need to know JS in order to use jQuery? I have the book called Jquery from novic to ninja ... have you heard of it?
4
 
hm
trying to figure out how to write this selector API on top of an ast
 
user1385191
7:50 PM
starring that...immediately
 
pin it!
;)
 
@tanktery yes you do
 
@Raynos TX
 
grumble
 
@RyanKinal so do you hate .NET yet?
 
7:57 PM
I've hated .NET since I started working with it
 
why dont you quit?
 
Because I like the company, the people, and the benefits and perks
 
Oh
why dont you go to a different department
Or at least upgrade to .NET 4.0 :\
 
Because there is exactly one IT department
With little to no upgrade funding
 
what are you funded for?
I mean what do you do?
 
7:59 PM
Me, personally, or the department in general?
Or the company in general?
Right now, I'm mostly pissed that, for some reason, Visual Studio isn't hitting my break points.
 
you
and the it department
what is your role, what's your teams role
how can you move away from .net 2.0
 
I work on the above website. Plus support applications, and the online course delivery platform.
 
user1385191
I think on my next project, I'm going to skip the flash IDE except for compiling and code my AS3 in vim :)
 
user1385191
that's going to be fun
 
@MattMcDonald Sounds like it
 
8:02 PM
@MattMcDonald I think you mean "I think on my next project, I'm going HTML5"
 
@Raynos I don't think it's possible to move away from .NET 2.0 at this point. Not without major upgrades and migrations. And we just did a server migration a couple months ago.
 
you migrated the server to win 2008 right?
please say yes.
I'm going to reboot into linux, node.js dev time \o/
 
I don't actually know the windows version... our web server is outsourced
But we're at least on IIS 7 now -_-
 
user1385191
@Raynos hearty laugh
 
I'm going to bang my head against the keyboard for a while, and then give up and go home.
 
8:11 PM
@MattMcDonald whats wrong with HTML5 :(
 
user1385191
needs js solution just for markup styling in IE <= 8
 
user1385191
that's big
 
Oh
I forgot you care about IE <= 8
 
 
2 hours later…
10:10 PM
Am I way out of line here in this question?
2
Q: jQuery Modal Confirmation Dialog Not Submitting Form

manyxcxiI am trying to pop up a confirmation modal when the user presses the delete button on the edit form. The modal pops up fine, but when jQuery should be submitting the form, it's not doing anything. I have delete as a type="button", because when it is of type submit the modal function does not hold...

Doubly so in my comments where one answer says "use ajax" ?
 
user1385191
actually, a better idea is to tell the op to ditch modals :)
 
user1385191
if there's a problem with confirm besides the disability of rigid styling, I'd like to know
 
@MattMcDonald Blah, modals bother me to death.
"hey look, that website you wanted to see is behind me because I'm super important, want to buy some crap?!"
popup window 2.0.
 
user1385191
lol, br tags in a form
 
user1385191
just use a p tag
 
10:15 PM
I don't know, I tried to give some advice, I really did. There's a lot of things he could improve on, but like... that's a long answer already. And it's downvoted now too, so like, wtf?
 
user1385191
I like the sporadic use of headings
 
user1385191
it really conveys a slow descent into insanity
 
Thanks!
You should have seen my answer on a PHP question today, I throw around the C source of it.
 
user1385191
disagree on the onsubmit part
 
user1385191
it's not cancerous by any means, but definitely avoidable
 
10:20 PM
Personally, I'd rather never see it. That function might not exist yet, it mixes code into your HTML elements, gives you more places to hunt things down.
I don't see any merits to it, is my main reason for saying that, but I see reasons not to use it.
But I remember you saying there's a time you've had to use them, and you're actually why I have this:
> (with the exception of ultra-extreme circumstances you are very unlikely to encounter)
 
user1385191
I'm partial to onsubmit="return false;" on occasion
 
I'm still not keen on it.
I'd change my mind if I saw a redeeming example or instance where it was very useful.
 
user1385191
About your last point (naming form controls), you should note that both name and id attributes overwrite built-ins via the forms HTMLCollection
 
I thought I stated that in my final rant.
Maybe it's ambiguous.
 
user1385191
10:25 PM
it's the form.elementnameorid accessor that kills it
 
Updated with credits to you for the link :P.
And thus ends the epicness of questions.
Read the comments for drama?
 
user1385191
I just realized youtube uses fancy tooltips instead of the title attribute
 
user1385191
this bothers me
 
Youtube in general bothers me.
If vemo wasn't so laggy I'd use it all the time.
 
user1385191
lag either means crappy internet, bad code, or overloaded servers
 
user1385191
10:39 PM
I'd say it's 3 with a hint of 2
 
I'm on a 128kb/s connection from home. Youtube is blocked by a firewall at work where we have good bandwidth because we run a server and 2 DSL lines.
You could always use offliberty if you just want to get the youtube video instead of watch it through youtube.
 

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