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1:26 AM
@HostileFork Nice, but looks a bit Russian to me en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faux_Cyrillic
@earl So these patches help, but do not fix the issue
 
2:15 AM
I can't draw either, but it is fun trying. Here is another idea using the TOH as an E
 
2:38 AM
Interesting concept but it looks more like "Rad" under that balance. Perhaps something similar but biased left could work
 
2:56 AM
A variation on @JohnK's idea:
I think it looks a touch like RAD as well...
 
Beat me to it :)
 
The tower can be subsetted and segmented and used in various ways, but I agree with @moliad that it's sort of an either-or thing. If the icon is used you don't want the logotype to be too picturey.
 
3:11 AM
@AmberRoxanna Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 60 so chat away!
 
wow
lol
 
Hello @AmberRoxanna. We are brainstorming logo and typography ideas for Red. Nothing finalized, but based on towers of Hanoi. But we also discuss and teach the Rebol and Red languages here. Heard of them?
 
@HostileFork Not particularly, is it a functional programming language ?
 
3
Q: Is Rebol a functional programming language?

Benjamin GruenbaumI ran into Rebol and I was wondering about it. I ran into the following script from here: use [feed questions answers][ feed: load-xml/dom http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/rebol questions: map-each entry feed/get-by-tag <entry> [ find/match entry/get <id> "http://stackoverflo...

 
@HostileFork thanks for the confirmation, yes i have heard of it before...but i don't see it used often in industry ? What has been developed using these languages ?
 
3:17 AM
@AmberRoxanna We just learned at our conference in Montreal that it powers some factory automation, moving conveyors and packing/picking yogurt at Dannon factories. :-)
@RebolBot
print {"I'm written in Rebol," says {RebolBot}, "and I'm pretty cool. :-)"}
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print {"I'm written in Rebol," says {RebolBot}, "and I'm pretty cool.  :-)"}
"I'm written in Rebol," says {RebolBot}, "and I'm pretty cool.  :-)"
 
@HostileFork wow, that's pretty awesome considering that a company like Dannon would be excellent promotion for the language.
I also like the fact that it's rooted with mathematical functions in mind.
 
@AmberRoxanna Well, they hire outside people. It's not chosen by them specifically, they just want the solution...it's the company they hired that uses it.
 
@HostileFork is there any book i can purchase on the language ?
 
@AmberRoxanna Unfortunately most of the books and documentation are for Rebol version 2, which I discourage people from using or talking about. Because one of the issues hampering the adoption is that Rebol was not open source, and Rebol 2 will not be. Rebol 3 is. So we're in a little bit of a bind in terms of having good suggestions for where new people should start reading.
@AmberRoxanna There is a Free book by Nick Antonaccio but it requires doing something I discourage, namely installing Rebol 2. But there are worse things that could happen. :-)
 
3:24 AM
@HostileFork I'm not sure I'd discount the books/tutorials on that basis—most of the concepts of Rebol 2 apply, it's the implementation that has been transformed.
 
@HostileFork well, i'm definitely going to back and looking in to this further. I just started programming about 3 weeks and started with C++.
@HostileFork but thanks for the intro
 
@AmberRoxanna I'm a C++11 fan. But totally different tools for different purposes. At the moment, Rebol is best suited (in my opinion) to being a swiss-army-knife ... it's a good scripting tool, and actually kind of fun to use. You can really bend the language to let you express yourself almost however you like, and it's readable like English... lots of words and spaces and not so many delimiters.
 
@HostileFork that's sexy
 
@RebolBot
copy/part to string! read hostilefork.com 64
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> copy/part to string! read hostilefork.com 64
== {<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "}
 
3:30 AM
@AmberRoxanna We think so. :-) In English, the hierarchical structure of thought is built implicitly in our heads via a kind of language instinct (as per the theories of Universal Grammar). We throw in parentheses and punctuation here and there, but generally group clauses by experience that is basically proven to be hard-wired in our brain.
Our brains are naturally able to build sentence structures in our mind, without relying too strongly on parentheses and commas. Imagine how cumbersome it would be if I'd been forced to write that last sentence with explicit indication of its structure: (S (NP Our brains) are (VP (ADVP naturally) build (NP sentence structures) (PP in (NP our mind , (PP without (S (VP relying (ADVP too) (ADVP strongly) (PP on (NP (NP parentheses) and (NP commas))))) .))))) Or similar.
 
@wow, i'm speechless.
 
@AmberRoxanna So when I said copy/part to string! read http://hostilefork.com 64, Rebol knows in the processing pipeline that a partial copy COPY/PART takes two parameters: what to copy and the length or boundary. It knows that the conversion TO takes two parameters... the type to convert to and the information to convert. READ takes one parameter, where to read from. So we get the first 64 characters of the bytes of my webpage decoded as Unicode UTF8 into characters.
 
@HostileFork Can i bake you cake now ? that's amazing
 
@AmberRoxanna Well, you can bake a Rebol cake and take a picture, we need more fan art. :-) I made a clay Rebol logotype...
But Rebol is in the family of languages in which you can store and "meta-program" by putting the code itself into variables and messing with it.
@RebolBot
code: [print 1 +]
print ["The length of your code structure is" length? code]
append code 2
do code
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> code: [print 1 +] print ["The length of your code structure is" length? code] append code 2 do code
The length of your code structure is 3
3
 
3:37 AM
@HostileFork we need to stay in touch on this. how often are you in this room?
 
@AmberRoxanna Many of us are here every day, on and off. And we answer questions, provide links, etc. We'll even often do people's work for them, if they're willing to use Rebol. A nice bonus on it by the way... it's tiny and no installation... Rebol 3 console version is under half a megabyte and it just runs.
 
 
5 hours later…
TGD
8:10 AM
Hello, shouldn't a string<->binary conversion be symmetric? Is this a bug, or am I missing something?
@RebolBot
probe foo: join crlf crlf
probe goo: to binary! foo
probe to string! goo
probe to string! #{0D0A0D0A}
probe to binary! "^/^/"
 
 
2 hours later…
10:05 AM
@TGD I'm not sure I can answer why this is exactly. It may be to do with the way that rebol tries to use the local operating system newline convention when saving data. It does seem odd though. BTW when you speak to the bot you need to address her at the start of the message.
@RebolBot
probe foo: join crlf crlf
probe goo: to binary! foo
probe to string! goo
probe to string! #{0D0A0D0A}
probe to binary! "^/^/"
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> probe foo: join crlf crlf probe goo: to binary! foo probe to string! goo probe to string! #{0D0A0D0A} probe to binary! "^/^/"
"^M^/^M^/"
#{0D0A0D0A}
"^/^/"
"^/^/"
#{0A0A}
== #{0A0A}
 
@TGD and welcome :-)
 
10:16 AM
@HostileFork The E being a tower is a great idea. That flat look is fine as long as it has some gradient/shadow. Do we need to keep the R and D in red color, or should we reserve it for the E/tower only? I wouldn't mind having R & D (yeah, like in R&D ;) painted in white with a black edge, somehow reminding the Rebol [o] logo. ;) What do you think?
 
10:34 AM
Doc - what about red rectangle, where R and D are white, and tower is in a white subsquare, being red? Will try to compose something quickly ....
 
10:53 AM
@pekr Let's see how it looks like.
 
11:30 AM
hmm, tried to adapt one template, mostly probably does not make sense :-)
ah, found some of my old attempts ...
http://xidys.com/pekr/rebol/red-logo
 
12:19 PM
 
@pekr I like that. Nice work.
 
Thanks @johnk - just playing with the Sothink Logo Maker ...
 
12:50 PM
well, enough for this afternoon, time for coffee and other work :-)
 
1:34 PM
a quick test I did yesterday...
 
2:01 PM
@TGD I'd say that binary to string conversion is a bug. Someone please check if it's on CureCode already, and report it, if not.
 
@earl If you don't convert the line endings then, when will you get the opportunity later if you write it out to a file? Doesn't the file writing get cued by the string type, rather than having a "binary mode", to do the convversion?
@pekr This is interesting, I like that one in inverse better than not. It's still readable as RED, at least I think it is. Would have to make sure by asking people who weren't watching this conversation that it says something like "R&D".
 
@HostileFork - do you mean the one Doc requested, a hannoi variant, just as an inverse variant?
I am still not sure, that just skewed hannoi (which is centered), is a good idea to use, just to describe stocking. Not sure ppl will relate it to the hannoi anyway and not sure it works as "E"
 
@pekr I just mean I like the one I replied to (left-baised tower pieces, inside the white square). You can find out which message a chat is replied to by hovering over it (if the poster used reply) or you can click the gray reply arrow on the left.
 
I might even like @moliad 's variant, but maybe I would try square variant, not rounded ...
ah, not sure how do I know, which message did you reply to?
 
@pekr These kind of variants are not necessary to be the "main site" but someone might use them for red-related things...
2 hours ago, by pekr
user image
 
2:16 PM
as I said - if you center hannoi, it looks like RAD
 
11 hours ago, by HostileFork
user image
 
@rgchris I liked this Chris idea - boxes mean stocking, machinery, automatition. I would just incorporate RED into them somehow ...
 
2:32 PM
Being able to see it as R&D isn't necessarily a bad double meaning. @DocKimbel could call his company "Red Research & Development". :)
 
@pekr Too serious, looks like a consultant visit card. ;-)
@pekr The red E on white background is a bit lost. It doesn't look like a E anymore to me because of the white square...
@moliad Not bad :) I like the minimalistic look and the fact that most people will look at it on a T-shirt and think these are just alien symbols. ;-)
 
2:51 PM
 
@HostileFork So it's no more Hanoi, it's Pise. ;)
 
@DocKimbel It's a speeding tower, going so fast the bottom plate is moving ahead and pulling the top towers along for dear life. :-)
 
but it also might mean, that it is incorrectly built, and hence collapses ...
 
@HostileFork Ah! :-) Maybe we could then get some inspiration from Speedracer, as I have a Mach 5 model sitting under my monitor since I've started Red. ;)
@pekr Yep, let's not try to help the inevitable trollers. ;-)
@moliad Do your custom Cheyenne mods implement the method-support internal event? I'm moving it further in the processing pipe as it is problematic to use before receiving all HTTP headers.
 
Interesting image of Ruppi money - contains R, e, and D in some sense
 
3:18 PM
@DocKimbel I don't recall using it.
@DocKimbel I thought of pulling the top line of the D further so as to make it almost attached, like the bottom line. The overall shape also is based on the red pill idea.
 
3:33 PM
fast forward:
Not sure "E" is obvious though ...
@moliad - yes, try to make the top of D the same distance as the bottom. And eventually - remove the curly at the bottom right of the R imo ...
 
3:50 PM
@pekr the curly (serif) is required, its what joins the R with the rest otherwise it doesn't join well... it just becomes 3 symbols.
 
My tiles/boxes/cogs/dice, dark on light:
 
@rgchris I find the white on red background to look a bit nicer, both are nice though. The thing is: who can guess what the logo means. ;)
 
4:06 PM
Red on fire. Ok, enough, need to go out to have some beer with a friend :-)
I like idea from Chris, but would like the pure white background ...
As for Doc's worry. Not sure, we can make it easily initially without subclaim, being it a programming language, programming reborn, whatever
then the meaning of the logo might be explained, and as for Chris, I can see stacking there, various level (sizes), machinery, automatition, maybe it could be made into gearwheels, but that might be already overused ...
 
@pekr Searching for something that complements the Red. May not be it, but the red on whites aren't going to be comfortable on a page...
 
it is a hannoi, shifted a bit. Nice logo. But I am all for pure solution, so red on white, no gradients, but the above one would be difficult to turn into ...
 
@pekr Ok, but don't say I didn't warn you...
 
Chris - how would you something like above put onto your t-shirt?
The logo should imo work even in a monochrome
I mean - something like the following prototype - we wanted be sure, it works on different backgrounds: xidys.com/pekr/2zone_loga/2zonemedia_logo_B.jpg
 
@pekr I hadn't thought of that </sarcasm>
 
4:21 PM
It's good to consider typographic variations, but I think that the "mental hook" of the hanoi tower is solved. Unrelated graphics, like generic meaningless swoosh thing or something you can generate with the flaming logo generator is not the direction we should be going.
 
If you thought of that, how can you post a logo, which makes my t-shirt into batik? :-)
 
@pekr What are you talking about?
 
about the background of your last logo posted. Would prefer a solid color ....
 
@pekr Jeeze, man—so I tarted my logo up a little. I wasn't suggesting the texture was part of the logo. What's wrong with you?
 
4:24 PM
@HostileFork - if anyone will push skeumorphism, I will travel to devcon, and kill that person :-)
 
@pekr The wood is not integral, also texture on T-shirts is possible with tri-blending, not that it even matters.
 
@HostileFork I like the wood.
 
Chris - nothing, what would be wrong? Should I just shut up? You are a designer. I was part of process, where some unnamed company team had 3 months selection period. They tweaked the logo so much, that they started over. So - you can expect that there might be many variants to each single idea posted here. In fact, if you noticed, I fight for your logo ...
It is just that Doc does not see it as self-explanatory enough, and Fork might not like it, as the boxes might look to him, like generated using some pictogram generator :-)
 
I'd lose the wood, but I'll definitely suggest that regardless of death threats, the best strategy is not "pekr said so" or "fork said so" but to test against the relevant audience. It's good to generate possibilities, even strange ones like the dice as they get people thinking. And also it's not necessary to make the logotype have any towers in it... it can just be a distinctive font and be used alongside other things.
 
What I just would like to ask is - if anyone comes up with anything, will any logo ever be self explanatory, so that an average person will imediatelly see, that it means - Red programming language?
Hostilefork - who is the relevant audience? Ppl in general? Programmers?
 
4:30 PM
That is a start at defining the audience, although I'd argue there are probably a few more qualifying questions which would differentiate those you should be trying to appeal to vs. those you never will appeal to
 
@pekr Ok, fine—We're presenting ideas, not finished artwork. Judge the ideas, not the artwork. Use your imagination, min.
 
So you can rule some people out.
 
Fork - you did great job with one logo, don't remember the blog article, was lighthouse related ... maybe you could try harder with Red one :-)
Chris - then I like your ideas, it simple works for me ...
 
@pekr I'd wager the Red tower is quite good, has flexibility as it's not just a logo it's a "system", and will test well. You give that kind of thing to a graphic designer or marketing department and there's all kinds of fun they can have with it. There are many ideas and projections. The Rebol logo is also very good, for many of the same reasons.
 
@pekr I bet that people will come back to skeumorphism, after the "everything flat" delirium will fade away. ;-)
 
4:35 PM
@HostileFork It's a strong idea, that's why we're all working with it :)
 
@DocKimbel - might be true, but I wonder, how you get that nice wooden texture onto your t-shirt :-)
 
@HostileFork It's almost good...the "speed" effect still looks odd to me though, it would need another try.
 
@DocKimbel I'm sure of it, the idea of replicating natural surfaces is compelling (whether it's right or not).
 
@rgchris "Natural" is a very funny thing, we wouldn't know much about wood texture if we didn't take the bark off of trees and turn them into boards. (also: what will cartoonists use to show characters having an idea when no one in the living generation has ever seen a lightbulb as we think of them now?) Flat things could start to seem like the natural state, and then some weirder avant-garde idea would arise to rebel against it which isn't based on things we've seen yet.
@DocKimbel The leaning is part of borrowing the R shape there to suggest an E more strongly (and to look like it may have the same lean as the D and thus be from the same font). An adaptation of the R shape might be able to get the same effect without a lean. Or some other concept with the D. I dunno. Typography is hard.
 
@HostileFork Agreed, I don't want to have the final word on that, I prefer a consensus from an audience, though, I reserve my right for a veto. ;-)
Maybe we should short-list the proposals first? Unless you guys have more ideas to try around the tower idea?
I would exclude the flames and Rupi logos though. ;-)
 
4:49 PM
@DocKimbel Well, we need sort of a list of what is needed and for what purpose. I think the good thing about having lots of variants is a pool to draw from when one has a Red related project that needs identity. So we should keep anything that people like, even if they don't like it for the main homepage... app icon... favicon etc.
 
My attempt at alien stuff, the leg in R could be made shorter, just a small square box at the bottom right, etc.
 
The red tower I proposed was supposed to fit into something like the OS/X dock, and it could work for windows too. Like the Rebol logo, it will need to have a variant for small resolutions.
Gotta run, back shortly...
 
@pekr Strange :) ...reminds me of chinese trigrams
So the E would be the Qián which means Sky/Heaven/Expansive energy...Bodes well. :)
 
5:47 PM
wow... Red is the programming language with the most logos ever :)
 
6:12 PM
@rgchris Perhaps some Red project called "Respire" could use such a logo. A database written in Red or somesuch? :-)
 
6:29 PM
@onetom Which one would make you buy a Red T-shirt? :)
 
6:41 PM
Not particularly trying to push my gears idea, but I thought I'd t-shirtify it anyhow (just for @pekr, the t-shirt is actually part of this logo):
So you might imagine it on a tshirt:
Or a mug:
 
Or a tattoo. Anyone feeling committal? :-)
I still say that this is the kind of thing that would go nicely as a variant for something like "RedGears"...some kind of application framework, which could be either mentally (or actually) animated into a tower by being part of the "family" of the icon motif.
The strength of a good icon system is adaptability while retaining the "core". Android is very good in this respect.
 
7:02 PM
Ah, have a particular fondness for the center-bottom :)
 
I will again point to this kind of strength in the Rebol [o] and Red Hanoi, and it's a strength that I do not see in the suggestions by beginning designers.
 
Fork, sometimes your remarks sound a bit bold. I stikl have not seen your portfolio, yet you dare to talk about beginner designers :-)
I would buy Chris' t-shirt imediatelly ...
 
I think the "Red / 3" is good but I would separate the medium sized piece from the large piece. Again, I think it is RED/STACK/3 that's the node.
 
8:07 PM
 
8:28 PM
Alternately, with shadows:
 
9:12 PM
@HostileFork "RedGears", that would be a nice name for a web framework for Red. :)
@HostileFork It looks too much like a logo for tobacco, with a pile of matchboxes and a cigarette in the middle. ;-)
 
@DocKimbel Er, I don't see that. On bad habits, A Public Service Announcement...
 
 
2 hours later…
11:08 PM
@TGD This is BrianH's answer from the curecode ticket: "REBOL strings use "^/" as a line terminator internally. When you convert to REBOL strings, you convert to REBOL internal line termination. All of the REBOL functions that deal with strings expect REBOL line termination. Other line termination standards are an external matter, handled by the conversion routines that are used to format the strings in binary: WRITE if you want something platform-specific, TO-BINARY if you don't. And use DELINE and ENLINE if you need to work around this (though see #601).
 

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