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12:00 AM
Exactly. One does not need to trust them. But there are certain things we humans have not tried.
 
If it was as objective as that the world would not be as it is today in regards to the scientific community.
Oh yes, there are many.
 
In ancient India, they used to dessicate their bodies and they realized these higher truths
 
The problem really is we don't know what we're trying to emulate reproduce, so it's impossible to objectively answer.
 
I am sure if scientists or really anybody willing to know the truths could do that
 
Well I am. I've changed my views quite dramatically over the years.
Going from an extreme atheist to quite the opposite.
 
12:01 AM
I believe soul is not replicable
 
Well if you're saying "I believe X is not possible, is X possible?" then that's quite silly.
 
It is what makes us conscious. Scientists are taking the logic road.
 
@KapilVyas what about babies?
 
The senses in babies are developing gradually.
In the beginning they are not aware of themselves
They don't have an idea of the self
They don't have an attitude of this is mine
 
and then their brain develops more
 
12:03 AM
So, they gradually generate souls?
I thought "soul is not replicable"
 
No. Their physical senses are in development
The functioning organs/brain has not fully developed
 
I think if we assume souls to be real, then we can't treat them as a discrete "have or not have" since it's way beyond our understanding
@KapilVyas are you denying that the brain controls how we sense the world?
 
Correct
Can you elaborate
 
Given fully functioning eyes, you may still not be able to see
 
Brain is a hardware
 
12:06 AM
I get what you mean
the brain is basically part of the eye
 
As we encounter different experiences in life - we are basically wiring the neurons
 
Well, it's an interesting way to look at things, but provides no objective insight as of yet.
I say yet.
 
Imagine as you grow old - you stop hearing
 
as many do
 
The brain is still functioning but the ears - the sensory input is failing
 
12:08 AM
it can be the other way around too
 
Yes ...true
But in most cases ...it is mostly at the receiving end
So basically the software is working (the brain)
 
I don't know about that, but it doesn't matter really
 
but the hardware is defunct
When someone is unconscious - we show them fingers etc
 
My point is, you do not know if any of this is true, and neither do I. What we do know is that we have chemicals that are linked to our emotions, we have a brain that is linked to our thoughts, and those things we can reproduce.
 
How can we explain dreams?
Because we are very much conscious in our dreams
But the reality is that dream is not real
 
12:11 AM
that depends on what you define as concious
but dreams fit into that model perfectly fine
 
While in dream state, the experience is that people really feel imagining it as real
Only to realize it was just a dream - some kind of illusion
What model?
 
But with the brain being such a complex device, it is perfectly reasonable to say that dreams stem from its inner workings.
 
I have a different belief to this...
I am not saying consciousness is a magic soul. It is something physical. Consciousness is always supervening onto the physical. But it takes a particular type of hardware to instantiate it.
 
Yes, but it's a belief, not a fact
 
This is what scientists believe
 
12:13 AM
We do not know.
It's a hypothesis
it's no more right than your belief
 
Yes...all of this is very mystical.
 
@KapilVyas If consciousness is physical, why is there no physical theory of consciousness?
 
And mind baffling
 
indeed @KapilVyas
 
If it was physical we should have created in the lab
 
12:14 AM
@KendallFrey I don't think that's valid really
people didn't know about quantum mechanics until recently, but that doesn't mean they didn't exist
 
> It is something physical. - You
@OMGtechy Particle physics existed, but the description was wrong
 
Scientists argue that we came from some organic soup
 
just like GR, there were theories of gravity, but inaccurate
 
@KendallFrey regardless, just because we haven't discovered something doesn't mean it isn't there
 
But, over time - all living entities have just arised from reproduction
From some conscious entity
So from logical math - only a conscious entity is capable of arising another conscious entity
 
12:17 AM
Yes, but it's how it became concious that is the real question
I see where you're going with this, but just don't.
 
Hehehe
 
That's like saying that the first cat must have come from a cat
the same logic
 
If evolution appeared to be so elementary in the first place, it should not have taken us so long to reproduce this in the lab
 
yet we did
humans being slow is not an excuse :P
 
Now we have very sophisticated machinery
To reproduce the best conditions
It should have been simple enough
Because in the beginning there could not have been simple conditions to begin with
 
12:20 AM
I couldn't call reproducing the theoretical conditions on earth when life began ... "simple"
 
"simple" in the sense reproducible in modern times
With all the gadgetry and equipment we have at our disposal
 
I still wouldn't call it simple, but regardless it has been done
 
Scientists think of it as a random process
 
no
 
If a random process could generate something complex
Then it is no longer random.
Makes sense?
 
12:23 AM
that makes no sense whatsoever.
And is totally flawed
 
It is like throwing random things in the oven - and expecting a finely non-reproducible cake in the oven
 
No, not knowing doesn't mean it's random at all
You're confusing the unknown chaos with random
 
That is the theory scientists are giving us
That random generations led to an evolved human being
 
it's not random, it's chaos
there is not true random AFAIK
 
What is the difference
 
12:25 AM
An order of things happened, we just don't know what it is
 
But that order of things was roughly random
 
it's quite a huge topic
just take my word for it for now
it's a long long long topic to explain
 
Imagine doing random things for a million years and expecting a computer to come out of it
 
The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a given text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare. In this context, "almost surely" is a mathematical term with a precise meaning, and the "monkey" is not an actual monkey, but a metaphor for an abstract device that produces an endless random sequence of letters and symbols. One of the earliest instances of the use of the "monkey metaphor" is that of French mathematician Émile Borel in 1913, but the earliest instance may be even earlier...
 
At the end...that would literally want me to have some leap of faith
Didn't hear about the infinite monkey theorem @OMGtechy
Thanks for sharing...
 
12:27 AM
no probs :)
point of it is, given enough time and enough psuedo-randomness (just to avoid chaos vs random), you will get anything
 
But the monkey might at best come out with William Shakespeare but not a work of William Shakespeare
Not anything.
Just plain stupidity...which makes no sense at all
 
no, that's the point, it will come up with the complete works of WS
think of it like this
 
We don't have any evidence to prove that yet...
 
we do, it's just logic
 
As simple as random text generation
 
12:29 AM
@OMGtechy pseudo-randomness will not in fact give you anything
 
@KendallFrey I'm trying to avoid randomness arguements here and failing :P
 
pseudo-randomness has finite states, which means it will repeat in a finite number of operations
@OMGtechy randomness is fine, determinism is a whole new thing
 
@KapilVyas you have a random number generator that generates numbers between 0 and 100. Eventually, it will produce 42.
extend that to a random string generator
 
@OMGtechy Assuming a distribution that includes 42 :)
 
@KendallFrey stop it xD
perfectly uniform over an infinite amount of time
happy? :P
 
12:31 AM
The chances of it even generating that in the infinite sample space would be almost zero
I mean something interesting
 
@KapilVyas but not 0
 
If that one interesting thing happened...it has to follow with another random generation to produce the next interesting thing
 
The probability of choosing a given number from an infinite distribution in an infinite number of iterations is NaN
 
Imagine if it was that easy...then people would create AI through random generation
 
12:32 AM
@PhonicsTheHedgehog feels :(
 
!!> (1 / Infinity) * Infinity
 
@KendallFrey "NaN"
 
@KapilVyas given a powerful enough computer which we certainly do not have
I had a NaN
she died though
 
@KapilVyas it's called artificial neural networks
 
@PhonicsTheHedgehog I'm like middle right haha
 
12:33 AM
Of course, when you are compiling, you are in Schrodinger's State, where you are both the god and the dog, and you don't know which one you are, until you actually run the program.
2
 
ahahahaha
 
@OMGtechy Compiling, I guess.
 
@PhonicsTheHedgehog na, it's more I know enough about what I'm doing to know I have no idea what I'm doing
paradox much
 
On the other note, learned what class was useful for in my class in highschool! Go me!
 
woo!
 
12:34 AM
@OMGtechy Well, its like wielding a capable weapon you have little control over, it feels like.
 
short answer, encapsulated data structures and associated functions
 
@PhonicsTheHedgehog Usually, it's the right side before 5PM, and the left side after
 
Try writing your next best program by generating millions of text!!!
 
some would argue against the data
@KapilVyas you're just being silly now
 
@KapilVyas The chance that you will generate a syntax error approaches one
 
12:36 AM
@KendallFrey Something magical happens after 5PM??
 
@PhonicsTheHedgehog you're not at work, and suddenly pretend to be better
 
@OMGtechy that's exactly the story scientist are trying to tell us - they are being modestly silly
 
@KapilVyas do you realise how silly you're making yourself look? For your own good, stop.
 
HAMMERTIME!
 
My computer is struggling to install Visual Studio 2010... QQ. Webpages are not loading fast enough.
 
12:37 AM
@CapricaSix ahahaha
@PhonicsTheHedgehog why 2010? :P
 
Ok...I will stop for now
 
thank you :)
 
@OMGtechy Hmm, you would pretend to be better when actually working, wouldn't you? Or are you supposed to fake incompetence? I have no idea regarding a workplace.
 
Thanks for debating ...just wanted to see where it will go...sorry ...for the blah
 
@PhonicsTheHedgehog fake competence
 
12:38 AM
@OMGtechy Its the one school uses, and they let me borrow the CD for one day. I needed to sign a contract and everything.
 
@KapilVyas it's cool, until next time :D
 
@PhonicsTheHedgehog I stop working on business software and start working on fun stuff
 
@KendallFrey Ah, makes sense.
 
@PhonicsTheHedgehog dreamspark is your friend
 
I guess more effort does matter in coding
 
12:38 AM
aka quitting time
 
anyway, gnight folks!
 
Gnite...what place of earth are you in
 
England
it's 01:40
 
The sun never did set yet in UK, ya know
 
12:39 AM
Oh ok - I see...nice chatting with you...sorry for making you stay up late
Blow that's quite late
 
Maybe in couple of centuries, but still not yet.
 
It is 7:40 p.m. here in Dallas,TX
K i too got to leave for yikes home!!!!!
 
Ah, NJ here, 8 42
 
The relevance of the theorem is questionable—the probability of a universe full of monkeys typing a complete work such as Shakespeare's Hamlet is so tiny that the chance of it occurring during a period of time hundreds of thousands of orders of magnitude longer than the age of the universe is extremely low (but technically not zero).
 
 
3 hours later…
DPM
3:34 AM
How to zoom a graph when a mouse move over it (in c# windows application)?
 
sup nerds
 
DPM
3:54 AM
???????
 
 
2 hours later…
5:32 AM
???
 
5:43 AM
nice question
 
6:19 AM
where have they all gone
 
6:31 AM
hi guys !
hi @c0dem0nkey...
hi @Shell
 
hello @bhuvin how are u?
 
ahh doing good man ... !
 
sup
 
Guys now theres a particular thing which i need to discuss ...
Now we all have exceptions ... So now the questions is what are the patterns could we follow to handle the same ?
1. Throw all of them from below , then in that case we can just have try {} catch{} on the main calling method only ... code underlying doesnt have the try catches there ...
2. Return a sort of Magic Structure : which is used globally into the System , Which has got the Relevant Response codes internally ...
Which contains the basic checks on each layer and accordingly handles the further flow. .
3. Suggest ?
which seems better of the 2 above ?
 
hey guys
anyone worked with omnis programming language?
 
Omniscience /ɒmˈnɪʃəns/, mainly in religion, is the capacity to know everything that there is to know. In particular, Hinduism and the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) believe that there is a divine being who is omniscient. An omniscient point-of-view, in writing, is to know everything that can be known about a character, including past history, thoughts, feelings, etc. In Latin, omnis means "all" and sciens means "knowing". == Definitions == There is a distinction between: inherent omniscience - the ability to know anything that one chooses to know and can be known. total...
 
hahaha
 
hehehehe
 
@ton.yeung
!!google omnis programming language
 
hahaha
 
@Gotalove why u want to work in omnis?
 
@ton.yeung @Shell Its not a scam I have a program written in omnis looks just like a winform app
thats a snapshot
Some developer here in Kenya worked on it
Am just curious coz prior to seeing it I dint know of its existence and there doesnt seem to be many people who know about it
hehe @ton.yeung if you hate winforms for your desktop apps what do you use?
 
^ That. Forcing people to learn and deal with issues in some non-supported obscure community-less programming language seems like a bad idea.
 
@RoelvanUden am not forcing anyone
Am not even advocating for it
Am just curious if am the only one who is surprised it even exists
hehe WPF is neater appearancewise I agree
 
7:17 AM
WPF or node-webkit (github.com/rogerwang/node-webkit) imo. :-)
 
Node js
damn
why do I keep finding applications of it everywhere
 
Because nodejs is easy and everyone knows the language, high-performance, well supported, tons of packages, cross-platform, and above all, fun?
 
not everyone :-P
but you are right though
So many people know it
 
If you've ever done a bit of front-end web development, you know the language.
 
@RoelvanUden have you done any projects with it?
does look like a whole lot of javascirpt
 
7:22 AM
@Gotalove Yes. Whenever I have time to tinker with personal projects, nodejs has become the easy and fast choice.
... It is JavaScript. That's the whole point.
 
will try learn it with time
 
@Gotalove brackets.io is a beautiful example of HTMl/CSS/JS desktop.
@ton.yeung Brackets exists longer, has more packages, and a better performance and release cycle. Atom is mostly, as I see it, a GitHub clone of Brackets ideas. Atom for me, is slow, cumbersome and memory hungry.
 
the whole codeeditor was made with HTMl/CSS/JS @RoelvanUden?
 
@Gotalove Jup.
 
what he asked ^
very impressive
 
7:31 AM
@ton.yeung It's more power hungry, but I don't notice much difference (It eats more RAM but I have plenty). It's vastly superior in terms of linting and compiling and whatnot. I have JSHint and JSCS, CSSLint, HTMLLint, JSONLint, TernJS and Epic Linter which makes it all a charm to work with.
If you want, for example, LESS or SASS or Jade highlighting and completion, there are packages for it. Even things like Lua, PHP, etc.
 
so you prefer it over sublime?
 
@Gotalove Absolutely.
@ton.yeung Remember that the base is pretty light weight. The truly interesting things are in plugins :-)
Holy shit.
 
@ton.yeung what are in your projects miltary secrets o_O
6gb thats a whole lot though
you guys must have some serious dev work over there
 
Or some serious RAM waste.
 
7:53 AM
:-P
 
8:30 AM
@Pheonixblade9 umm...no? Tesco, world's second biggest grocery retailer.
 
anyone seen ccinc lately
 
8:48 AM
Yes! IE8 is finally behaving like it should on my web app. Woo!
 
9:02 AM
anyone still uses tables on web layouts instead of divs?
 
9:38 AM
ello
@c0dem0nkey No.
Only teenagers.
 
@Sippy I use them at times applying bootstrap table classes
 
@Gotalove That's not a table layout.
That's using css.
 
9:54 AM
I remember when tables for layouts was considered cool.
That makes me old..
 
@Sippy I use a table and apply table class
thats a table but with css right
hehe It was
@RoelvanUden
 
10:15 AM
@Gotalove You should stop doing that unless you actually need to make a table ..
 
AH FPER OYOEPYUTOEIUSTIOEYIOEYR T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STOP TALKING ABOUT TABLES ARGH!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
this new course i'm doing... our 3rd unit (which i'm up to now) well at the beginning we have to create a form and use TABLES to make the layout for the form
I HATE tables
unless they're used for tabular data
 
10:50 AM
@Sippy divs are abit confusing for me
I dont know how to structure them quite as easily as tables
 
@Gotalove At first they're a bit odd, just think of em like tetris.
Except square.
And you can move em anywhere
Tetris isn't a great example.
 
hehe
 
11:37 AM
wassup guys
 
@Sippy worst metaphor of all time
 
11:52 AM
hehehe wsup @Shaun o/
 

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