last day (2765 days later) » 

5:23 PM
Man it's dead.
Probably want to go here ->

JavaScript

Topic: Anything JavaScript, ECMAScript including Node, React, ...
Room's dead though.
 
oh ok
nice avatar btw
akagi?
 
Yes.
Your not supposed to recognise it.
 
haha
 
If your serious write a singleplayer pong / tetris / breakout game in js.
 
not many ppl i know have watched akagi
 
5:25 PM
Mind you i havn't done that myself.
I jumped write into writing a multiplayer game engine
 
do u have an extensive programming background?
 
Not really.
About 8 months in JS.
 
I cant really get into node.js
 
Couple in node. a year in gamedev.
Ive messed with node a bit but havnt really done anything constructive with it yet.
 
ohh ok cool
 
5:30 PM
i like the community, I played with node and erlang
 
havnt touched erland
 
well as much as building pong/tetris/breakout would be the logical first steps, I've rarely stuck with learning a discipline from step 1 (I can't stay engaged)
 
its pretty awesome
 
@alex the most important thing is finishing something.
 
i was also thinking of maybe starting with the game design document and lay out all stats
true true
 
5:32 PM
I've you can't stay engaged at step 1 your not going to get anywhere with step 4
@alex it sounds like you want be a D&D Dungeon master. try that instead.
 
well not entirely true... i didnt learn JS and programming from "Hello World" but I've made a career out of it
 
I've tried skipping step 1. I didn't get anywhere. If you can do it, go for it.
The problem is you dont have a framework to build on top of with node.js
 
yeah i am worried that game dev is too complicated to do that
 
You could easily skip step 1 if you had a game engine to build on top of it.
You can start writing a platformer using crafty.js
 
what was your motivation to start your game engine in node? non blocking io or something else?
 
5:35 PM
javascript is awesome.
Same code on the client & the server is awesome.
I wanted a plugin-less browser game and having node.js on the server just clicked.
A heavy client / heavy server game is the easiest way to hide latency. Also if I can realise a node.js game engine then I can give to the community.
There isn't one yet.
@alex my personal advice is pick a simple single player (or multiplayer) game and write it all. Finish it. That's the most important thing. You need to finish a game. Writing half of it is no good. If your going to do that then don't bother starting
 
point taken
i think i'll take ur advice on that and make a single player game
maybe single player rpg based on crafty.js
 
good luck.
Oh I forgot to mention that javascript games are slow. It's hard to use generic libraries to write games with decent frame rate.
 
oh really? hmm
 
And tbh starting with an rpg is a lot of complexity.
 
i was hoping that w/ newer js engines these days js game performance would be much better
 
5:39 PM
77
Q: What are good games to "earn your wings" with?

DrewI believe that in order to become a good game developer, you need to make games. From a programmer's perspective, what are some good entry level games to get your hands dirty? What skills and challenges do each of these games teach you?

 
cool thx
 
@alex JS isn't the problem. HTML5 canvas is just damn slow outside of chrome
 
what about dom based animations?
theres some debate about which performs better, i havent come across any definitive stance yet tho
 
js games arent that slow
 
I would hate the concept of dom based animations
You can look at the lemmings based dom game.
@Loktar they aren't in chrome.
 
5:41 PM
lol that one is so old, but still works well
or FF 4.0 now
 
Any demo from the render engine is slow. Large abstracted game engines are slow.
Manual drawing and interaction with the canvas is fast enough
7
A: What are good games to "earn your wings" with?

davrIn my experience with novice programmers, the progression usually seems to go something like this: Pong Tetris Huge amazing awesome 50 hours of gameplay 3D RPG (note: most people give up programming part way through this step)

 
Note how your starting at step 3. It'll probably go downhill. Seriously, unless your really good don't skip these really basic games
 
First game to earn your wings with is def pong or breakout
pretty much look at most atari 2600 games and pick one and try to make it
 
hm i guess so then... breakout i guess i used to like that game lol
 
5:45 PM
you learn alot, such as the main loop, basic physics, collision detection
heh @alex one sec
there you go, breakout, and uses canvas
 
@Loktar dont use a main loop. The game tick is a horrible crutch
 
its a pretty decent tutorial
 
haha nice
 
@Raynos what game doesnt....
 
btw thx for all the links guys, i really appreciate it
 
5:47 PM
We Have an event engine for a reason (defiantly in node but also in the browser)
 
and advice
 
Games use main loops/ticks because its the easy way out.
Having the entire thing event driven is better
 
no because its the tried and true method lol
I would hate to attempt to implement a physics engine without a main loop.
timing is extremely important
 
6:08 PM
@Loktar thats just a way of thinking.
It's better to remove a loop.
@alex I may get round to writing a tutorial game in node/chrome.
 
you should, make an event driven breakout
or pong
that would be cool
 
@Loktar I was going to go for pong. Because 50% would be writing a polished game. and the other 50% would be shit latency. Why does it take 600ms for the game to react to input! How do I deal with this!!
 
@Raynos i'm not sure if u saw this or if it helps, but i think it might relate to the latency hiding u mentioned
4
Q: Tips for communication between JS browser game and node.js server?

Petteri HietavirtaI am tinkering around with some simple Canvas based cave flyer game and I would like to make it multiplayer eventually. The plan is to use Node.js on the server side. The data sent over would consists of position of each player, direction, velocity and such. The player movements are simple force...

 
@alex I wanted to write a 2d browser side scroller like maplestory :D but its a nightmare
 
at least the first comment, someone built a node based game
lol really?
i think the whole 2d sidescrolling mmo is a promising market
 
6:11 PM
I always go for the top down games.. idk why
 
maplestory has little to no competition for years
 
in terms of creating them that is
 
top down is like the old zelda view?
 
The point is real time multiplayer communication is HARD
 
yeah
 
6:12 PM
hm yeah i can see that being the biggest challenge
 
I dont know how garrys mod does it.
 
lots of awesome developers :P
 
Client A sends a message "Move X 1". 300ms later server handles a message, 300ms later client A gets told that server has handled its message its position is now x + 1
so you press Right, and 0.6s later you move right.
 
well thats a slow connection... optimal ping is below the 200 ms range
 
hi folks
 
6:13 PM
thats why you get people jumping around when your connected to anything over 200ms genrally
 
i see a lot of game dev enthusiasm here
have you seen this google techtalk? youtube.com/watch?v=_RRnyChxijA
 
idk if any of u guys tried wonderking, but the latency in that game is horrible
and its not even browser based lol
 
nope, thanks for the link
 
@Loktar but in any serious game you need to handle at least 300ms
 
It all depends on the game for sure. An fps if your getting 300 your going to notice some lag, but an RTS you may not notice it "quite" as much
I bet people do it less now than 5-10 years ago when 300+ ping wasnt so uncommon
now people take fast connections for granted
which I dont agree with
 
6:17 PM
is ~300ms latency also applied when using websockets?
 
@yojimbo87 depends on location. you can get as good as 100ms I think
 
> Reducing kilobytes of data to 2 bytes is more than "a little more byte
> efficient", and reducing latency from 150ms (TCP round trip to set up the
> connection plus a packet for the message) to 50ms (just the packet for the
> message) is far more than marginal. In fact, these two factors alone are
> enough to make WebSocket seriously interesting to Google.
From Ian Hickson (Google, HTML5 spec lead)
 
@yojimbo87 thats true. Websockets are a lot better.
But as a developer I will assume 200ms latency
which is 400ms for a round trip.
 
so theoretically, what's the workaround for latency (besides more and faster servers)?
and also, its not really feasible to pitch a game design document (even if its complete) in the hopes it'll get picked up by a company huh?
 
6:31 PM
oh nice article, thx, this is gonna be a good read
 
There's an article im looking for.
Oh it was that easy to find
@alex BAM This is what you want to read.
 
cool, thx!
 
Your going to have to do lag compensation and client side prediction to get smooth gameplay out of something as simple as pong.
What have we learned? Do a singleplayer demo. Let me write the multiplayer game and you can learn from my mistakes :p Feel free to complain daily that I'm not doing it
 
hahaha
there was a saying: "An intelligent man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others."
so far, i guess im not all that wise ;x
how long ago did u start?
 
Ehm I started writing a game engine in september 2010
I procrastinate
 
6:41 PM
@Raynos do you have repo of it on github or somewhere?
 
a lot.
@yojimbo87 look for Raynos on github, the scraps of code there are shit. I have nothing finished to show anyone.
 
@Raynos do you use socket.io for communication between server and client?
 
@alex if yoou want a recommendation on libraries and tools. I'm going to use express, socket.io, rapheal, backbone.js.
@yojimbo87 yes. Simply for re-usability. If you want to make a public library build on popular tools to increase market usage.
 
@Raynos and do you use it only with websockets as a transport option?
 
@yojimbo87 I degrade where <strike>possible</strike> neccessary.
Although I'm only going to tests and support chrome 10+
 
6:56 PM
so websockets are the best what you can get out of network
 
Unless you write your own browser
Although testing websockets vs server side events would be interesting
 
well that will be hard-code action
 
7:08 PM
aren't server-sent events one way only?
it looks like client can't use them to communicate with the other side
 
True. but ajax is the other way.
Might use a combination of both
Just wondering how fast eventsource is vs websockets. Its worth testing
 
maybe people working on jsgamebench will do also networking tests
@Raynos BTW what IDE or editor are you using for node.js development?
 
7:26 PM
@yojimbo87 im going to use c9ide
 
in cloud or self hosted?
 
but webstorm, netbeans, any text editor will do
cloud
My personal recommendation is learn vim
 
yeah I tried that
but then settled with notepad++ in combination with winscp
 
try it again :p
notepad++ is my windows text editor of choice
 
I like jslint plugin for notepad++
 
7:30 PM
if you want an ide use webstorm
 
is node.js supported in it?
I mean debugging and stuff
 
Nope.
 
sad frog.jpg
 
but use ndb
 
yup thats my current one
 
7:32 PM
Maybe I mean node-inspector
 
it looks abandoned
December 15, 2010
last commit
 
Oh.
Then try cloud9ide :P
 
I run away from it :D
I was doing long poll server with JSONP as a transport and I needed to test it on my server
to simulate real thing
 
8:33 PM
textmate became my preferred text editor for macs
 
Ew maxs
macs*
 
I see textmate almost everywhere related to node.js and macs
except Ryan Dahl
he is using Vim I think
that article about game networking was pure aswomness
totally masturbatory
 
i used to be strictly pc, idk tho, over the years, i now prefer macs for the most part
they're just too expensive lol
and thx @Raynos for the link on game networking, definitely a good read, even if i dont code a game lol, its nice to know how multiplayer games actually work behind the scenes
 
8:49 PM
@alex what are the most valuable advantages of macs compared to pcs based your experience?
 
hmm... i feel like they overall perform better (since apple gets to control both software and hardware), and the unified experience (because of Cocoa, most OSX apps use the same shortcut paradigms as the rest of the OS), Expose I think is great, Spaces, although I don't personally use it, I can see the utility behind it
the OSX Finder is much better than Windows Explorer i think
there are some things that are annoying about OSX though, but most are more minute details
 
do you have desktop or notebook?
 
macbook
and i think the overall construction of the laptop itself feels "better"?
it feels overall more durable, less prone to overheating, etc (mind u these are opinions, not facts at all)
generally speaking tho, software wise macs are SOL lol
 
do you buy any additional software?
 
except for some smaller apps, like Scrivener (creative writing tool) that are mac only, and textmate, although "e" text editor is a port to windows of it
well this is a company laptop, so no
 
8:56 PM
I see
 
oh and i loveeee Quicksilver for mac
there are launchers for windows too, but they generally lag my machine
or arent as powerful
oh and u can easily script almost anything in OSX
to automate things, and they have some apps that help with that like AutoHotKey
 
I can't imagine working without two displays
 
and even tho i dont know unix commands that well, i like the fact that the terminal is tied deeply into osx
yeah me neither lol
u can connect 2 monitors to macs tho
im on 2 monitors right now
 
and also I'm a .net developer so macs are not good for my work
 
ohhh
yeah thats a deal breaker for u then
 
8:58 PM
yup
 
oh and the other thing about macs, they can run windows, but not vice versa
im a frontend web dev, so thats a huge plus for me
 
in some emulator mode or native?
 
well thru vm
virtual machine*
 
ah I see
 
Get ubuntu
 
9:00 PM
I use ubuntu on servers
but I don't like it on desktop
 
9:11 PM
@alex do you test IE compatibility only through VM on mac?
 
@yojimbo87 you test IE compatibility? I just test chrome/ff
 
@Raynos well unfortunately I have to because of clients
 
Sucks to have clients
(I run windows at work, linux @ home)
 
but having no money sucks sometimes more :)
have some of you saw Douglas Crockford's videos from YUI theater?
the 6 parts thing
 
yes
Watched a few
 
9:22 PM
it's funny what you can do in JS
undefined = true; for example
 
:D
 
how long are you working with JS and node.js?
 
9:55 PM
8 months js.
only 4 months node
 

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