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3:58 AM
FYI, I've been busy last days because of InnovationWorks 5th birthday, lot of meetings with many CEOs and investors, so not much time for coding. I plan to finish this weekend the implementation of dynamic methods invocation that should solve several tickets. Though this is quite experimental, but very promising technic that could extend the range of dynamic Red semantics that the compiler could handle.
 
@DocKimbel Saw your mention about the conference in a month. Are you speaking "officially"?
 
@HostileFork I'm still waiting for the confirmation. I should have a one hour slot for making a Red presentation and explain "How to build a programming language".
As it's a mobile conference, I need to show a good demo of how to use Red for mobile programming.
 
I think, a good demo, is to actually show people fresh installs of OSes.
Just after the install is done, have them in the Virtual Machine saying "Welcome to your new OS" or whatever.
Then grab the executable, and make an APK from each
And show the size of the compiler.
Then run something--anything, even the silly dungeon demo from a cross compile from each to the other.
I do not think anyone else can show that.
 
@HostileFork Which executable?
 
@DocKimbel Well you grab the red executable from the website download page I meant. I do not know what the mobile demo you would want to do is.
It would be nice if you had a flappy bird or something kind of viral
A tower of hanoi game, with the red tower, would be great of course in OpenGL
Three posts maybe laid out vertically... touch and drag from a post to another and it will pick the top piece off that stack to take to the target post
I'm sure qtxie could write it in one night :-)
You don't really need OpenGL for it if that's too hard, it could just be sprites
 
4:08 AM
@HostileFork Gaming support is not our first focus for mobile support, we want first to support the native widget set and core Android API. For gaming support, we need an efficient C-level OpenGL ES binding and new high-level 2D/3D gaming dialects. I don't think this is doable in that time window as we have 0 available resources to work on that.
@HostileFork Right, a 3D ToH would do a nice demo.
 
Hmm. Well maybe there is a compromise possible. Perhaps some layout of a list view with bitmaps can portray it as a "poor man's" game?
So an outer frame that is broken into 3 inner boxes, each box a list?
 
@HostileFork I need to show something "impressive" to the audience, poor's man demo is hardly an option.
 
I think building an APK start to finish from multiple VMs is the impressive part and showing off the size.
 
I already have an idea of what to show, but I need networking to be done, so this will be challenging given the time left.
 
Charles Simonyi once told me "It is like the singing dog. The thing about a singing dog is not that it sings in tune. It's that it sings at all."
 
4:12 AM
@HostileFork You can achieve that using the Android SDK already. The fact that it is done by a single 1MB exe is nice, but that won't sell Red to people, it's not enough.
 
@DocKimbel I assume there'd be other things in the hour
You can't set the bar so high that you will have a great Android app built with it, you're raising it too extreme... to try and impress with both tool and application.
Inspiring people is about mindshare.
 
@HostileFork You don't know what I have in mind. ;)
 
Well, keep it organic.
Try telling lots of people about things and if they go "meh" to something then don't pursue it, and if they perk up their ears even if it isn't your favorite then that might be the right demo direction.
It's often hard for us to predict what will impress or not impress people.
 
Networking + demo app ready in one month? Do you mean just some stub, or ports, schemes, etc.? Would be nice, but is that doable in such a timeframe?
 
@pekr Probably just an adhoc networking implementation just for the demo.
 
4:26 AM
btw - watching Object branch tickets, I saw the term "multiple inheritance" or something like that? But rebol does not have that. Is Red different here, or some misunderstanding on my side?
 
@pekr Rebol3 does have it.
 
btw - along with objects, there was new COPY semantics implemented for R3. What you think about this? Some found it a bit "complicated" rebol.net/r3blogs/0241.html
Copy semantics wiki page - rebol.net/wiki/Copy_Semantics
 
4:41 AM
Switching the bias so that COPY is deep by default and needs to be /SHALLOW to not get a deep copy may be a favorable change, it comes up often.
 
4:52 AM
@pekr I haven't considered these extensions yet. IIRC, they are not implemented in Rebol3 either?
 
Not sure if Carl did those changes ...
Most probably he did - blog article contains his comment: "A80 has been released with the stated changes. Type CHANGES at the R3 prompt for details."
 
 
6 hours later…
10:56 AM
@pekr My 2.101.0 R3 version does not accept the syntax mentioned in the blog article.
 
oh, maybe it was not finished after all, who knows. But as we don't allow 'append on objects in Red, some options to navigate how to "clone" object could be handy in future.
As we've lived with R2 for 10+ years, I think that most probably you have more important things to implement right now :-)
I for one can't wait for the ports/schemes, networking and concurrency :-)
 
11:47 AM
"some options to navigate how to "clone" object could be handy in future" I don't understand what you mean. We can clone objects and extend them that way since I learned Rebol...what are you missing?
a: make object! [value: 123]
b: make a [value2: 456]
probe b

make object! [
    value: 123
    value2: 456
]
This is a basic feature of objects in Rebol, as in Red.
Though, I might be reusing Carl's proposition for a spec part for objects, for documentation purpose, adding some special features and restricting some fields to one or several datatypes (that would be helpful for the compiler).
 
12:23 PM
Yes, that would be good. What I meant was that "Copy semantics" blog and wiki article, but maybe it is more related to make/copy itself, than objects ...
 

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