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12:00 AM
The difference is, instead of putting your dialect on "my-processing-dialect" you can have it inline. So it's strictly more expressive. What you do with it, well, that's up to you...
Main thing is it doesn't cost more in the evaluator design than you were already paying. It "falls out" of having it all factored and lined up.
2
In the "I wonder what if..." category, what if you could put things in a mode where you could read variadics and see where the source has newline breaks? :-/
Perhaps if you say <end> on a variadic, it could give you voids on each source newline (given that variadics always check TAIL?)
 
 
3 hours later…
2:54 AM
Cool features @HostileFork.
 
3:49 AM
posted on May 30, 2016 by greggirwin

/key support (should be portable across platforms once digest funcs are in place for them) Added /hash placeholder message Replaced algo-specific interface funcs in crypto with single calc-hash func

 
4:45 AM
Sneak peek of Visual Studio Code plugin for Red #vscode https://files.gitter.im/red/red/w4hg/red-vscode.gif
 
4:59 AM
Ok, that is pretty neat!
If one has a console version of whatever on linux (arm), what is needed to make a console version for android?
 
5:21 AM
7
Q: Running ARM binaries for Android on Linux ARM

ov1d1uIt is possible to run an ARM binary built for Android (not the .apk) on other ARM devices featuring Linux (such is Raspberry Pi)? I'm trying to port one of my projects on ARM but I need to use a closed-source binary (SopCast) which is available only for x86 (Windows and Linux) and (recently) Andr...

 
5:35 AM
I wonder if there's any way you can fake being on rasp pi with some libraries so the arm binary thinks it's not on android?
 
 
1 hour later…
6:54 AM
@Feeds That looks good, is it written in Red or something else?
@Brett I'm trying to mix in some "fun" of new features while doing a lot of drudge work of rebasing and pulling things out of the specific binding branch before the "pre-specific-binding" freeze point
So hopefully I'll get a few more in. But mostly what I want to do is make sure that the pre-specific-binding drop has basically every user-visible complete "API change" in it, while still being able to run <r3-legacy> to act like an R3-Alpha if necessary
 
 
2 hours later…
8:53 AM
Quick mini poll. Why are you not using R3 at this time, and using something else ( could be r2, or red)?
 
@GrahamChiu I can quickly say that something I do not care about is the GUI, and that I am not very enamoured of the GUI dialect, but one of the main reasons I am not that interested in it is because most of the GUI things that I find compelling require significantly more sophistication. While it's true that VID/Red has a much smaller footprint than the design tools for GUI of fatter systems, the GUIs I'd build would have the fat hanging around anyway.
So that's a reason I'm not blocked by R3-Alpha-isms and focus on language design issues. For the kind of simplistic tool that the VID guis generally might be interesting to me for, I'd rather just make a config file and run it vs. hassle with radio buttons and the like.
 
for me, if I need to do anything I can use r2 on windows. But if I want to do any work on Android I need a GUI, and you can't run config files etc there.
 
9:18 AM
@GrahamChiu - some time ago I wrote a short acticle, called - What makes a good beta. You repeat question, which Carl was asking too. So for me, it is a mixture of various things ...
My take is, that each thing has its momentum - the window of oportunity. R3 was way too long in development, and while updating on some features, it also was a step back. Until R3 got open-source, it lacked a friendly concole (gee, even multiline was missing), it lacked networking protocols, DB protocols and the GUI was mostly experimental. It also lacked a simple DLL interface, while providing more sophisticated extensions ... Well, and CGI and related stuff ....
So, the thing was, that most recent (back at that time) R2 users had no reason to switch to R3, unless they were willing to miss some significant feature.
So - after R3 got released, many things got better - FFI (DLL interface), some networking protocols, fixed console ...
But also - situation got more complicated - various distros to follow. Saphir mostly stopped R3-GUI development (well, at least I think there is not active development anymore), Atronix has its own UI, @HostileFork does a bit different things at the language level and if his work would have GUI, it would be most probably Qt. His Ren Garden console was much more, that what R3 ever offered
The advantage of Red is (so far, as noone forked it), that you mostly follow just one stream of development, you know the roadmap ahead, you can see almost daily commits, etc., but most importantly - Red, even with its 0.x release, is delivering some smooth user experience, e.g. View based console.
Today for e.g., Visual Studio Code editor support appeared, just look into the Twitter message ...
 
@pekr The reason I paused work on Ren Garden wasn't that there weren't a lot more places to be taking it, or that I couldn't polish up a really great UI...but just too many foundational language issues that made me feel it was putting lipstick on a pig :-) So with more language issues pinned down, I'll have to see how I feel about it, really the debugger features are the main area I want to see
 
And most importantly - you can talk to Red author on mostly a daily basis. Here you can talk with HostileFork, but less so with Atronix or Saphirion guys
And hence pity Earl disappeared and Carl not taking care of the official distro PRs, etc.
 
It's good that people are looking at Red and the GUI dialect and so I'm hoping that somewhere in there will be enthusiasm and a design for a replacement port model or something that can just be copied. But, it's hard to tell how much design vs. cross-platform-hack-and-slash it will be.
 
Carl pre-announcing R4 just means, that he really likes to work in isolation.
@HostileFork - Red has still a long way to go ...
 
Everything does
In other news, I believe that after coming up with lots of interesting ways to specialize functions, that word-valued-refinements are getting the axe...and refinements will be TRUE or FALSE. So always LOGIC!.
But, with parentheses still evaluating in paths, you could say e.g. append/(if only ['only]).
 
9:33 AM
in retrospect it was a bad move to work on the r3gui
 
@GrahamChiu Well, you can turn any bad moves into something useful if you leverage the knowledge of what it did wrong to design something right
 
What Carl did was good enough for most people. But it was greatly made more complex by Saphirion to be unusable
they improved it for the purposes of making it more robust for large programs whilst ignoring the issues with the language which should have been dealt with first
Meanwhile everyone drifted away because development took place behind closed doors
 
So I want something that lets you adapt a function... like a specialization, but you get access to its inputs, can muck with them, then call it, then process its output...but you don't have to write a separate spec and it all happens in the same frame.
 
That's exactly how I remember the situation ...
 
So no extra function call.
foo: adapt :append [
    if string? series [trim series]
    result: do-the-adapted-thing
    return reverse result
]
The biggest problem I have with it is what to call "do-the-adapted-thing", which basically says "I'm done preprocessing the arguments, so run now".
super? evoke? invoke? I kind of have plans for chain
Perhaps it needs to take two arguments and use the lambdas
foo: adapt/result :append [
    if string? series [trim series]
] ([result] -> reverse result)
That's probably the best idea, because not everyone wants to mess with the result...and the invocation would be implicit if you didn't do /result. But you should have a way to say "no don't run"... hm.... also you need a way to say "nevermind, don't run the function"...that could come from the return result of the block.
 
10:00 AM
@GrahamChiu What it seems is that there are a lot of people who write code before writing out a reasoned rationale that explains and attacks the edge cases. It's always going to be a dynamic process when making something new, you don't completely "know what you don't know". But something that I find a bit troubling is how much code is written in Rebol without good academic-like formalism afterward to clean the design.
The people who thought that way besides myself, earl and BrianH and Ladislav, aren't around and/or aren't publishing such things anymore
 
 
3 hours later…
1:05 PM
Does Ren/c support function! like Red 0.6 and Rebol 2.7? In try.rebol.nl, there is no Ren/c, right?
 
1:24 PM
@DarekNędza No, there is no online Ren-C at this time... though perhaps an emscripten javascript build will be up at some point (there've been some experiments). I don't know what you mean by "does it support function!" but yes, it has FUNC and FUNCTION and DOES and all of that, this is just a notational convenience that one can implement, which is cool.
([a] -> print a) is just another means of making a FUNCTION!
I think one should be careful when coming up with these new variadic-based concepts, not to create a new piece of functionality that is not accessible another way. The variadics are trickier in their interface with those wishing to call a generic APPLY, whereas the fixed arity functions are more "normalized"
But the -> is a good example where it really is just a nice syntax for someone who might like it. And when it comes to calling a variadic when what you have in your hands are blocks and values, the Ren-C chaining is better than any similar facility I've seen in an imperative language.
 
I mean function! as datatype. "fooo" is the string!, 1.1 is the decimal! etc
 
Yes, same.
Well, not the same... in that there's only one FUNCTION! type... there is no OP!. (And there is no CLOSURE! as in R3-Alpha)
But this one function is SuperFunction, it's good for everything...it has the abilities of closure without the cost.
 
good enough
 
And it means you don't have to worry about the ANY-FUNCTION! typeset, there's just FUNCTION!
 
 
5 hours later…
6:17 PM
posted on May 30, 2016 by SteeveGit

FIX: Find datatype! #1947 by SteeveGit

 
6:53 PM
@HostileFork I think that's how innovation works. You ship a buggy product with enough functionality to attract people, and fix it later on. Which I suspect how all software is released even if you're Knuth
If your aim is to release perfect software, you'll have no income stream for 5 years or however it takes to get it to a point where it is "bug free"
 
7:09 PM
@GrahamChiu Well, it takes all kinds, I just wish there was more critical mass behind the "kind who care about getting the details right"...because society and its prioritizations have sort of marginalized that...and everyone who says "we have to do it hurriedly and not think" are contributing to the problems being created faster than they can be solved.
 
@HostileFork in a perfect world, yes. But it doesn't work that way.
If you try and do it perfectly, you end up in an obscure branch of history
 
@GrahamChiu It does in perfect worlds, we just didn't win the world-drawing lottery.
 
 
2 hours later…
8:46 PM
@ShixinZeng I heard a rumor that you got View running with ren-c ??
 
 
1 hour later…
9:49 PM
0
A: Windows 7 does not offer rebol view as file opener

GordRSteps 1-4 are required if you are not already signed on as Administrator. Otherwise just open the Control panel from the start menu. Navigate to through the Start Menu to 'Start/All Programs/Accessories' and Right Click on 'Command Prompt' 'Run as administrator' Allow the program to make chang...

 

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