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12:00 AM
@HostileFork last time I checked it wasn't possible to give tagging rights without giving full admin access, but hopefully that is not the case now
just checking ...
 
@johnk Well, if you give me no more and no less access than Ladislav, honestly, I'd call that...let's say...more than fair. Anyway, it is not a priority, which I'm only lamenting it not being a priority...because it would have been nice if the effort could have been a centralization. Anyway, you were not the weak link, nor was I. :-)
 
 
Some people deliver when asked. @johnk, @rgchris, @Brett, @HostileFork. Some others....not so much the deliverators or responders when asked for things. :-)
@johnk Thanks, well, you did a great job with the import.
 
Ladislav has no specific rights (as per screenshot). If I add you on, you get write which annoyingly also gives arbitrary access to modify any issue ...
 
@johnk I have no interest in abusing any privileges, just throwing away privileges I don't want, as is my habit. I don't destroy data.
 
12:06 AM
@HostileFork thanks :-) - I still need to spend a day fixing up the edge cases including a few missed tickets :-/
 
@johnk I'd not lose sleep over it, the whole import is great, it's just that no one is using it yet. But the thing we might consider is firstly, how likely is it in 10 or 20 years that curecode.org is up and findable? Vs. how likely is it that github issues are findable?
 
@HostileFork I trust you
 
@johnk Well, trust no one, I'm only as good as my password, which is 1234 last I checked ;-)
 
The one thing I will prioritise on my list is taking regular backups of the issues to mitigate the risk of the overly broad permissions
When I last looked there is a (relatively) simple python script to allow you to dump all issues from github
 
@johnk This gets into an issue which is, that if GitHub were not a business, that these features would be a priority, which just emphasizes:
So not everyone knows this, but I have owned property at one address in my life, e.g. land title to my name.
Know what address that is?
 
12:11 AM
Back on the topic of rebol - I vote to stay with #[true] over $true for purely aesthetic reasons. When I see $variable I tend to shudder and think of perl
 
Same address as the founding address of Amazon.com (modulo unit number, but y'know, same address, I might have swapped packages)
@johnk The thing I think is jarring there is the [ ] because it suggests a block not there, and now we get into whether @rgchris has a point about the () boiling away would "ease" matters. I'm not one afraid to rip things up. I haven't committed any $. I'm trying to see if we have better ideas.
I suggested :-) and :-( but this has not been well received.
2
"Should array indices start at 0 or 1? My compromise of 0.5 was rejected without, I thought, proper consideration." --Stan Kelly-Bootle
 
✓ and ❌ with an APL style keyboard
 
@johnk You will, I assume, not be surprised, that this has also been suggested.
But, the spin being: in source it's TRUE and FALSE, it's only in the transmission protocol of literals that you get the ✓ and ❌
e.g. you still use the word TRUE and the word FALSE, but if it goes to the wire format, you use a wire format that's symbolic and not easy to type.
And also, the part where you realize this is a horrible idea.
@johnk Instead of working further on bug DB importing, I wonder, if you might write up "git interfacing with Rebol"? I am thinking, if you have followed the latest, of basically jettisoning R3-View dependencies (though, with a conversation with Atronix regarding this and planning) to make Ren Garden "the console"
So what about, a really awesome GIT dialect?
 
@HostileFork yes I have been quietly following and I can see how it makes sense even though it will leave us with a less featureful r3 for a while
 
@johnk "Metaphysics lesson." The internet archive says... http://hostilefork.com/2007/11/06/workaround-firefox-scrollbar-bug-on-mac/. What do you git with that 2007 link, pasted into a browser now? And what does that tell you?
Decay is a sign. It shows you "no one still here".
 
12:28 AM
@HostileFork it tells me that the wayback machine still works well
 
@johnk Crossing GitHub's records and doing it intelligently is a "sign of life", and a capture of a lot of interesting thought.
@johnk Don't count on it (though they're saving everything anyway)
I like crashing lots of powerful interests together, and, while "crashing internet archive and GitHub" isn't necessarily much to speak of, it's more than that, Google keeps a copy of everything and so do lots of "people".
 
@HostileFork agreed. Anyway - must go - work to do!
 
@johnk Userspace bugs on Ren-C welcome, anything stopping Rebolbots or otherwise, speak up. L8r
 
@HostileFork quick last question. Have you finalised the 'last' commit before the split? Let me know and I will look at locking rebolbot into that last gold build
 
@johnk Nope, not yet.
We will all have a big discussion about it. :-)
And "last commit" is actually not what it sounds like
 
12:33 AM
On my list ... pull down the latest ren-c and get it running with rebolbot in test
 
Because there's a second-to-last commit
e.g., what I'm talking about is a fundamental complexity that I think is an irreducible complexity.
I realize, that Red does not care one bit about it.
And that's... going to have to be okay, I'm calming down about that.
But, still, I will maintain the post-branch, I just *won't promise it for applications beyond the ones I test."
If you think about it abstractly, I've been pretty generous. Zero cost development of code and correcting of factors, concern for my peeps at Atronix...
All I'm saying is that, I cross a line to where I build Ren Garden as I envision it. In essence, I'm pulling a DocKimbel.
"No one matters but me and my vision, I will make it for you, take the EXE!" Well, not as extreme, but still honestly about the same.
Except I'm building back so that Atronix can use the lib
But in effect, it will probably be about the same as saying "Ren is a new language".
I'll still try and negotiate to see if that can't be the only conclusion.
Anyway, I hope to negotiate with Atronix such that we share code, I think there are few illusions there that the benefit is to use Ren-C.
 
12:50 AM
That makes a lot of sense. There is still lots of fun foundational work to be done to make this fascinating language more predictable and understandable. It is a research project and a good one at that. I have learnt a lot about languages and computing as a whole by following these discussions and look forward to learning more.
 
@johnk Well, indeed, I think the main thing here is a kind of research, so that's why you see me not biased too strongly in the "have a lot of imperative code putting a window and a slider up"...
But, at the end of the day, question is if people are moved by what you are doing.
 
 
6 hours later…
6:59 AM
@Morwenn "have sort, will travel"...you ever going to put that into a paper?
 
7:45 AM
posted on May 27, 2016 by hostilefork

@Ladislav I mention in #1879 that when I tried to actually do what you suggested with INTERSECT, UNION, etc. (which makes a lot of sense) that you run up against the practical problem that these operations were treating BINARY! as "sets of bytes". Basically they were shackled by the idea that these operations had decided to define themselves for ANY-SERIES! instead of being an error, and they

 
 
1 hour later…
9:13 AM
>> m: map [ p 1] m/p: :print m/p "testing"
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
testing
 
 
2 hours later…
11:39 AM
@rgchris @johnk Ren-C has already been basically planning to take & away from "word characters" to a nobler purpose anyway (because it's an ugly word character). Is &true and &false ok? Perhaps it could become the construction syntax marker as well, and use parentheses. &(function! [...][...])
 
12:22 PM
With # covering BINARY! and ISSUE! already (and CHAR!), and with Red wanting #( ) for map literals too, then it seems that perhaps shifting the construction syntax over to & would be prudent, and the opportunity could be used to get &true and &false also and to get the at least choice of parentheses. That would also free up #[] for some other literal down the line, in theory, but it could be kept for compatibility for now.
 
 
8 hours later…
8:42 PM
(-: I like this :-) and :-( I like this less then the other )-:

Do not answerthis. What kind of fun project is perfect for REN/C?
 
9:31 PM
>> all [true if false [true] true]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== none
 
I mentioned how that's a behavior change in Ren-C, because ALL considers voids to be no vote (which is a consistent enforcement of the almost-consistent-but-not-quite R3 behavior)... and if returns void if the branch isn't taken. So that would be TRUE.
However, this opened up an interesting question... what if there was a "conditional IF", e.g. all [true | if? 1 > 2 [true] | true]... where what you get back isn't a void or the result of running the body (which also could be void)...rather, it would mirror the conditional truth or falsehood of the condition. Other things could do this as well... switch? which told you if any of the switches ran or not...
This would save you the trouble of worrying what "falls out" the bottom of your cases if all you wanted to know if a case matched, by normalizing it to true and false. It's actually rather useful. And in Rebmu it saves on needing to save a condition into a variable if the condition is what you were interested in. So i?, s?...
 
 
1 hour later…
10:49 PM
@farmdawgnation #lisp #red #rebol for the right CS epistemology https://twitter.com/honest_update/status/736236019364835329
 

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