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12:08 AM
@JacobGood1 TCC is not a C++ compiler, so no. The Rebol-with-embedded-compilation would be a C89 or C99 compiler.
C++ compilers are very large, and very complex.
 
 
2 hours later…
1:54 AM
@Respectech Could you show me the command it uses to compile the file t-routine.c?
 
2:26 AM
@ShixinZeng gcc ../src/core/t-routine.c -c -DTO_LINUX_ARM -DREB_API -02 -Wno-pointer-sign -fvisibility=default -fPIC -ffloat-store -I. -I../src/include/ -I../src/codecs/ -I../src/freetype-2.4.12/include pkg-config freetype2 --cflags -Ilibffi./lib/libffi-3.1.1/include/ -o objs./t-routine.o
 
-Ilibffi./lib/libffi-3.1.1/include/
that's the problem
Do you have MAKEFILE defined in makefile-armv7?
@Respectech ^-------
 
2:45 AM
Yes, but it is lowercase, like this:

makefile=makefile-armv7
Should it be uppercase?
 
Yes, it should be uppercase
 
@ShixinZeng OK. Trying it again with uppercase MAKEFILE. This is the makefile-armv7 in the git/r3/make directory, just to verify.
 
@Respectech correct
But in my repo, it's in uppercase: github.com/zsx/r3/blob/atronix/make/makefile-armv7
 
@ShixinZeng That's strange, because I cloned github.com/zsx/r3.
 
which branch are you on?
@Respectech you should be using the branch "atronix"
 
2:53 AM
I just cloned the exact URL that I mentioned above. I didn't clone any sub-branch.
 
"atronix" should be the default branch. but to verify, could you check the output of "git status -u no"?
 
@ShixinZeng It says it's on branch "atronix".
Compilation aborted again. This time in a different spot:
../src/os/Linux/dev-event.c:51:23: fatal error: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory
 
You need install libx11-dev
you will also need libfontconfig-dev
libfreetype6-dev
 
@ShixinZeng OK. I'll install it and let it compile. I'll check it when I get back in tomorrow morning. Thanks~!
 
Oh, you can just install libgtk3-dev
which should bring in all the packages I mentioned above
 
3:01 AM
@ShixinZeng OK. Thanks!
 
with gtk3-dev it could give you a working request-file based on gtk3
No problem
 
@ShixinZeng libgtk3-dev is not a valid package.
 
It could be named differently, I am not using ubuntu, so it's just my guess
it seems to be libgtk-3-dev
 
@ShixinZeng That works. Thanks!
 
No problem
Time to sleep. Let me know how it goes. I will check back tomorrow.
 
3:45 AM
Rebol.net and DocBase may have gone AWOL, but thanks to the magic of Internet Archiving you can relive all your favorite moments from history in Rebol Logo design, including Helpy and Rebdog, with http://blog.hostilefork.com/rebol-logo-docbase-wiki/.
...and that was a good waste of a couple of hours to put together.
 
4:05 AM
 
4:23 AM
@HostileFork Wait—who strongly disliked Helpy?!?
 
@rgchris @GrahamChiu was vocally opposed.
I recall some other people going "yeah no don't like it"
It would be in the history somewhere...
 
@HostileFork Ah, that figures...
 
I probably preferred a paperclip
 
:)
 
Anyway, the logo has held up strongly IMO, peer with the best and most meaningful of any. And it sits waiting for the language to live up to it. :-)
When trying to make all of ones commits rewritten and clean, you get into trouble when you accidentally squash a reference to something into history that didn't exist yet. Then you try going back and building to find a regression and it's a mess to sort out.
 
4:43 AM
I think I know what was missing:
user image
2
Helpy—Reb Dog hybrid!
 
@rgchris We'll have to see how that tests. :-)
Could work! Makes it more "emotive".
 
The nose should be RED :)
 
 
4 hours later…
8:33 AM
Are you sure it is a dog and not a lovely pig? :-)
 
 
3 hours later…
11:10 AM
posted on August 04, 2015 by fork

[Wish] At time of writing, APPLY will fill in NONE for unspecified arguments or refinements. It will also tolerate too many. So in the test suite, the following is expected to succeed: 1 == apply func [a] [a] [1 2] As APPLY is already somewhat brittle in terms of corresponding to the order in which refinements appear in the function spec, this "laxness" only makes it worse. It likely repre

 
12:07 PM
Error handling changes seem to have shaken out a bit, so that's merged to master. Let me know of problems before the next thing happens.
But still, as long as the commits are kept fairly independent, it's possible to go back and find where a problem got in.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:30 PM
Um, what is the RETURN keyword supposed to do in stock R3 PARSE?
>> parse "a" [return []]
Gives me "". Anybody know why?
It was my understanding that PARSE is supposed to, by design, always return a boolean.
 
@MarkI Nope. And in fact, I think a more useful default is it should return NONE or the input. But the RETURN construct lets you return other things.
If you do return ( ) then it will evaluate what's in the parentheses and return it. Anything else is treated as a rule, and if the rule matches that's what's returned. If the rule fails, it's acts as a failure and nothing is returned.
>> parse "abbbc" ["a" return [some "b"]]
== "bbb"
>> parse "abbbc" ["a" [return [some "z"] | some "b"] "c"]
== true
>> parse "abbbc" ["a" some "b" return (10 + 20) "zzzz"]
== 30
Useful stuff. Anyway, been tracking down an elusive heisenbug and I think I'll have a fresher take on it in a few hours, so... laterz...
 
2:04 PM
@HostileFork You mean "what the rule matches is returned". Thanks!
Also, if RETURN is the last word in a rule, it is silently ignored, a bug in my book.
@HostileFork I think if you need this, you should SET a var and return a boolean. Callers of PARSE deserve predictability.
But, I haven't seen the discussion that went on when this "feature" was introduced.
You can always write my-parse: func [data rule /local r var][r: parse data rule either/only var var r].
Interestingly, that example highlights the readability problem with either/only.
I am a Rebol noob. I should've used any [var r] instead of the either cruft.
 
 
3 hours later…
5:13 PM
Here's how to get "return FALSE or the input" behaviour: parse2: func [data rule][parse reduce [return rule]]
 
@ShixinZeng I think I'm getting really close to having a valid build. Here's the latest error:

g++: error: libffi/lib/libffi.a: No such file or directory
make: *** [r3-view-linux] Error 1
cp: cannot stat `r3-view-linux': No such file or directory
 
So "return NONE or the input" is also easy: HFparse: func [data rule][any [parse data reduce [return rule]]]
(Oops. I forgot the data in parse2 above.)
 
5:31 PM
@Respectech I fixed that one yesterday: github.com/zsx/r3/commit/…
 
6:00 PM
@ShixinZeng Thanks! Trying again...
 
 
1 hour later…
7:09 PM
ARGH. And both return words in those blocks passed to reduce should be 'return.
Or maybe I should have used compose [return (rule)] ?
I am not sure which is better. Opinions welcome.
 
7:30 PM
@HostileFork well, in any case, that is still awesome
 
8:17 PM
@MarkI Reasonable argument, and made more reasonable by my wish for return to actually return the input on success, because that is predictable and more useful... and would make it harder to differentiate the output from success/failure in the face of return. (You can't parse none and you can't parse false, so simple if parse would be a good enough test.)
Currently the result of evaluating parens in parse is ignored. But here is an idea. What if it differentiated how it behaved w.r.t. return vs. if you didn't return? So parse "abc" ["a" ("bc")] behaved as today, but parse "abc" ["a" (return "bc")] would give back success?
(or in case of my recent concepts, parse "abc" ["a" (return/with "bc")] would give back success, while parse "abc" ["a" (return "bc")] would give back failure because without a with, return just returns...)
Hm, though that would mess with definitionally scoped returns. This might have to be a use for exit and exit/with instead.
Something of that form is at the present moment of consideration seeming very, very useful.
Hmm. Or parse could take over returns, and you could say return/with '(return "bc") if you wanted to return from the function instead of the paren code. :-)
 
8:34 PM
@ShixinZeng I just ran "apt-get update" and then "apt-get install libgtk-3-dev". Just now ran "git clone http://github.com/zsx/r3 r3-1", moved %r3-make into the r3-1/make directory, moved libffi.makefile-armv7 into r3-1/make and ran "scripts/build.sh armv7" and got the following error:

g++: error: libffi.makefile-armv7/lib/libffi.a: No such file or directory
make: *** [r3-view-linux] Error 1
cp: cannot stat `r3-view-linux': No such file or directory
 
Bound words behaving differently based on where they are evaluated... heresy. Anyway, it is a good idea to have a way to make a paren in a parse rule give back a value that is used as a rule, and we know we don't want that to be the default behavior of what it does with the last value evaluated, so some kind of throw-y thing would be needed. Can't be return.
This does point to a possible new lease on life for exit, as a weirder kind of return that has no definitional scoping. It could be used for this purpose, and it could also return you out of function scopes with the 'whatever the last function you entered was' rule. Because that's how the parens would work, more or less...no word to definitionally scope to.
(Calling a non-definitionally-scoped exit "weirder" than a definitionally scoped return is not precisely fair. This is all weird.)
 
@Respectech hmm, do you see make/libffi.makefile-armv7/lib/libffi.a? if not, you need to repeat what you did to compile libffi first
since it's a freshly checked out repo, you need to run "git submodule init"
"git submodule update"
and then ./autogen.sh under src/libffi
@Respectech Actually, I think you should be able to build it with your old directory, as you've got libffi compiled there. You just need an up-to-date makefile-armv7
 
@ShixinZeng I've checked in my old directory and the new directory after running autogen.sh. libffi.a is not present in make/libffi.makefile-armv7/lib/libffi.a .
 
8:51 PM
posted on August 04, 2015 by fork

[Wish] With definitional scoped returns, EXIT will not also get a word to be scoped to in the function call. So RETURN will always need to be used to get the definitionally-scoped behavior, while EXIT will simply return from whatever function was last invoked...making its behavior in loop wrappers surprising to the caller. For this reason EXIT is being looked at for re-purposing for what othe

 
@ShixinZeng I just reran the git clone, git submodule init, git submodule update, and autogen.sh. Still don't have make/libffi.makefile-armv7/lib/libffi.a .
 
@Respectech then can you find libffi.a anywhere under make/?
 
9:06 PM
@ShixinZeng Searching now...
@ShixinZeng Not under make. However, I found it at /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libffi.a and copied it to the correct location.
Attempting to build again....
 
@Respectech So your libffi didn't build correctly
 
Good to see progress made on R3. Can't join the effort for now, but keep it going!
 
@ShixinZeng This is quite a challenge. Thanks for all your help so far!
 
@Respectech could you give me remote access to your pi? I can compile it for you
 
@ShixinZeng Where can I send the credentials privately?
 
9:14 PM
@Respectech send it to zeng.shixin AT gmail DOT com
 
@GregP Can't... or won't? (!) Joining the effort can be as simple as building and reporting bugs... github.com/metaeducation/ren-c
 
posted on August 04, 2015 by cklester

[Reddit] I really like the [Red|Rebol] syntax and want to start trying it for my GUI projects. Can you guys hurry up and get to 1.0.0? hahahaaa! But seriously. In the meantime, I won't be wasting my time playing with Rebol, will I?

 
@ShixinZeng I'll send it to you after the latest attempt finishes.
 
@HostileFork Can't for now as I have to focus on the job that pays the bills... but hopefuly I will have some free time later. I started a good work with SDL2 R3 extension and I wish I'll continue. As you said just reporting bugs or documenting or even speaking about it is participating.
 
9:26 PM
@GregP Yup, well I'm still working on stability and the basic premise of the language for now... doesn't do a lot of good to tell people IF and WHILE are functions and they can write their own, then when they do try and write a loop wrapper with my-loop [... return 10 ...] it returns out of the loop wrapper, thus evaluating the my-loop call to 10...
"I can write my own, except...they won't work?" :-/
Started looking at that one and ran across all kinds of other things that needed to be straightened out.
 
9:42 PM
@ShixinZeng Well, I got it compiled! R3/View running on Raspberry Pi!
2
Thanks for all your help!
 
9:54 PM
R3-View for Raspberry Pi can be downloaded at video.respectech.com:8080/a.com/r3-view
4
 
@Respectech Neat. Would be nice to see some more blogs about that.
Okay, so I think I might well be onto something with the exiting a paren in parse, with an optional value whose meaning is "use this value as a rule". But I think it's better to use BREAK and CONTINUE, and have them each spin a slightly different meaning. Where CONTINUE means don't end the current rule's processing... keep going. And BREAK means end it.
It seems parens in PARSE really would like to have access to the "last matched thing". Without that ability, it gets necessary to shove ever more stuff into parse, like to have a KEEP keyword when (keep LAST-THING-MATCHED) would have done the trick. It seems like a slippery slope where ever more keywords get added.
Same thing with this RETURN problem. "just set a variable" isn't what the people want, because keep rule is shorter than set x: rule (keep x). return rule is shorter than set x: rule (exit/with x) (using the EXIT idea here, because RETURN is a no-go in parens for just leaving the parse)
Another possibility could be that if you return a function from a paren, its arguments are fulfilled by the next parse rules if they succeed, and skipped otherwise. :-/ (:keep) rule
That one's actually fairly interesting.
 
10:28 PM
posted on August 04, 2015 by Bo

(After much hair pulling and gnashing of teeth...) R3-View is now available for Raspberry Pi and Pi 2 at http://video.respectech.com:8080/a.com/r3-view Feel free to move the binary over to rebolsource.net or other locations. Thanks to Shixin Zeng for great support in getting it to build!

 
>> block: []

>> parse "abbbbbbc" ["a" (func [x y] [print y append block x]) some "b" "c"]
c
== true

>> probe block
["bbbbbb"]
It's a little oblique, but I think that a "uniform but unusual" behavior for parens is likely better than having the keywords themselves alter how parens work.
The break/with and continue/with ideas help avoid accidental use of paren results as a rule, and function values just aren't that common as evaluative results. Rare enough that PARSE's parens might make an allowance for that as a distinct meaning from inert values.
(I'll remind people that this "activated value" distinction exists on words themselves.)
 
DNC
Any marketing strategists in here?
 
@DNC Um. I made the Red tower and came up with the open source ad thing.
 
DNC
@HostileFork are you interested to participate in a project?
 
@DNC I am participating in several projects already. If you're interested in participating in mine, then I might be interested in participating in yours. If not, probably not.
 
DNC
10:41 PM
@HostileFork what is your Skype id?
 
@DNC I chat here except with about 2 people personally. I'll measure your participating in my projects seriousness by willingness to learn a bit about Rebol/Red and explain your interests here, if you like.
 
DNC
@HostileFork check www.sinasgames.com , I want to take it one stup further by advertising.
 
@DNC Looks like you're busy making stuff, but do you have metrics to measure if your games are any fun?
(I do not have an iPhone and iPad so I cannot answer that.)
 
DNC
Let me tell you this: the download rate has dropped down to almost zero, but I still have a monthly income, that means the people who once downloaded it, are still playing.
that is the reason I got motivated to advertise
 
The one with the guys and the ball reminds me of an old CGA game...
 
DNC
10:47 PM
Ye it kinda that game, but with gravity
and better graphics
 
@DNC There were only 4 colors in those days, 320x200 resolution. And you drew the sprites on graph paper and then entered them in hexadecimal :-)
That was an early freeware game that made the rounds on bulletin boards, back when you called the internet with a phone... and "the internet" was just a computer in some guy's basement in your town. :-)
 
@HostileFork I keep clicking on the guys but I can't make them move!
 
DNC
I understand. But do you think you can help to advertise the games?
 
@DNC Anyway, "better" is always relative to the time, but even then that was pretty cheapo. :-) But people's computers couldn't do too much, so any game was a novelty.
 
DNC
You will get a monthly cut for 1 year
 
10:51 PM
While I'm all in favor of bizarre trades of my time for an interesting exchange, that is an unlikely trade for me to make.
 
DNC
@HostileFork I see, you have a lot of experience with computers. But I don't need any of that. Besides that, I got the feeling you have a lot of general knowledge, including advertising.
What would you like in exchange?
 
DNC
I know something: you think about a game, tell all about the game, I will let it be developed and put online in the app store, and you will get the revenue
 
@DNC Making a game someone comes up with is indeed a more interesting offer. You might try thinking along those lines in general, as a pitch to artists/marketers.
Here is an idea you might try to work with that I had. I was thinking about how annoying dead pixels are.
So I thought: what if you were playing a game where dead pixels were part of the game mechanic somehow?
So you're playing a relatively ordinary game, but then dead pixels are happening. Just miscolored dots. And more and more of them show up, and you have to do something about it or they ruin the game.
Maybe it's been done, I don't know. But there would be an interesting game, and gimmicky that I think people would blog and write about it.
 
DNC
Sounds interesting.
If you have a more detailed view of it, I can let is be sketched in Photoshop, than we will discuss, improve the sketch, and than I will let the game be developed. What do you think?
 
11:02 PM
I think I'm pretty busy. But I was thinking maybe the gameplay mechanic would be that dead pixels are hard to see, but they do some kind of damage to your character and the enemies, so like... it slices or scratches them as a streak as they cross it
And the idea is you have to accomplish some mission on the level before there are too many dead pixels to possibly maneuver around.
 
DNC
3d or 2d?
 
2d. Has to be relatively easy to see the dead pixel. It would be a pixel or so in size (or on retina it might have to be more).
The pixels have to be just possible enough to make out to play the game, but hard enough to make it irritating
 
DNC
I see. Do you just have this idea or do you also have a visual view of it?
 
Would be with something flat like that. The idea being that you have some other goal you're trying to accomplish, but there's this secondary game of pixels going bad on your screen as you're playing.
 
DNC
I see, do you have a visual view on your mind?
 
11:07 PM
Imagine that. But with a dead pixel. Different kinds of dead pixels... always on, always off, always on red/green/blue. Multicolor blinking.
No real visual view, the above is as good as any.
I like the idea of the game space scrolling, but the pixels staying where they are.
 
DNC
I see. Are you interested in a deal where I let this game in your mind be developed and you will be advertising the games?
 
Maybe some tricks like the always on pixels hurt the bad guys, but the always off pixels hurt you. Or something
@DNC Well, I was just responding to your game-idea-profit-sharing proposition. That's an idea I have. I don't know that I woke up this morning thinking I would get involved in such a thing, I'm already rather busy.
 
DNC
So you are saying you are not interested?
 
@DNC But if you modified the above soccer game such that every 15 seconds a small red pixel would appear at a random location on the screen that the yellow guy had to avoid but the red guy could hit, and then every 15 seconds a small yellow pixel appeared that the red guy had to avoid but the yellow guy could hit, with the rest of the gameplay unaffected, I would find that an interesting show of effort in which to involve myself with the design.
 
DNC
That would be no problem, but you are not very clear about the deal. Are you willing to advertise the games in exchange?
 
11:15 PM
I rarely make promises, and ones without complete contractual terms with random people on chat rooms asking about topics the chat room is not about is not a general case in which I will suddenly reverse course and make them when I am busy.
I will tell you that introducing such a mechanic into your game might make it more notable or something that people would be likely to talk about, because as it is it looks unremarkable.
But it ties into what my initial advice was on advertising. Before expending great resources in advertising, make sure it's something that if advertised people would want.
 
DNC
Okay, thanks for your time
 
Yip.
 
@HostileFork how close is the c-interop-I-dont-even-have-to-shut-down-my-program-thing?
also would you like for the to attempt building anything on windows?
 
@JacobGood1 Today with FFI you can load a LIBRARY! dll or .so and run functions out of it with ROUTINE! and STRUCT!, probably more or less like Red can. Once you can build a DLL from within Rebol of C text (hopefully with the C text being able to just be a string in interpreter memory and not even a file on disk), then you will be able to build code and load it with the same mechanism.
@JacobGood1 if "the" is "me" then you can build Ren/C anytime you like and make sure it's going. Ren Garden was building against it when I last checked but haven't checked in the last few days.
 
11:31 PM
lol yea it was supposed to be me
that sounds so cool, coding in ren garden, slapping c around everywhere
 
@JacobGood1 We'll see what happens. It will be interesting, if nothing else.
 
11:52 PM
posted on August 05, 2015 by fork

[Wish] We see in Red the addition of KEEP and COLLECT keywords. Yet there's not really anything all that specifically sensible about PARSE needing its own KEEP and COLLECT. It's a specific implementation of a more general desire. The desire is effectively "I want to match a rule and have the thing that rule matches implicitly grabbed into a variable that I can use without naming it" Which i

 
We need a conditional that returns the result of the condition if "conditionally true", or something else if it's "conditionally false". It probably exists under some name I'm just not thinking of.
"abc" = foo "abc" [1 + 2], 3 = foo false [1 + 2]
 

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