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12:09 AM
BTW, the ODROID-C0 was just announced, and it is a low-profile board. With that one, a standard thickness tablet could probably be made relatively easily. forum.odroid.com/…
 
 
2 hours later…
2:06 AM
@MarkI Lighter on the eye is for me the benefit—anything where the word is most prominent. I still am of the opinion that #(true) is the best notation and that #[ ] would be better for maps, but that ship seems to have sailed. There's also @(true)
 
 
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8:18 AM
Jun 27 '13 at 9:16, by johnk
@onetom I don't believe anyone contacted the http://alarmingdevelopment.org/ guys yet as we still need to reorganise more, especially around our web sites.
I bumped into Jonathan Edwards from the alarmingdevelopment site at a conference on Friday and had a small chat about rebol. He seemed friendly.
He is working on a hypercard type of application for mobile devices which uses a json style declarative configuration language, but it seems to be closed source
More details if you are interested ... a.confui.com/-3YkoIQ7Y
 
@johnk Cool...yes, it would be easier to outreach with some good killer demos, but I still worry of course about the foundations. So Red can demo and then when hard questions get asked there will be answers in Ren-C.
 
It seems he really wants to get users back into coding hence the drive for simplicity. Red and android would probably be a close fit for what he is trying to achieve. I'll try and find a link to his slides
I've lost track on how far red has progressed with android support. A hypercard style app would certainly be a good use case
 
@johnk Red's roadmap is to do Android GUI next, ostensibly. trello.com/c/11bblhBn
 
8:33 AM
@HostileFork thanks. I should find some time to play with the Red gui work.
 
9:27 AM
@rgchris It looks like a bugfix has turned into "go ahead and start taking those next steps toward SELF elimination". I will give a hopeful prediction that the keywordishness of SELF will be over before the New Year.
 
9:54 AM
About Rebol GUI - maybe we could offer an HTML5 interface (@rebolek lest + @earl shttpd)...
 
@giuliolunati I think it will be good to step back and see what Red does and how people react to that. It will gauge the audience. Ren-Cpp and Qt are a powerful basis for delivering functionality; I have not been focusing on it because I want the language itself to work correctly. So there is that as well.
@giuiliolunati There is a Qt5 for Android. I do not know anything about it.
I am planning a way by which C++ objects can respond to requests for bindings, like other contexts. This means you could have some kind of c++-object! that would be an any-context!...and be able to respond to requests to get or set, and hook into the garbage collector.
That has been hinging generally on an understanding of how objects will work in general, which with other big problems advanced on is now blocking.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:53 AM
@giuliolunati I don't like so much HTML5, it's not the most efficient thing we could have seen and still at the end of 2015, there are website like caniuse.com because it is not granted that what you do will run on the various browsers and OSes. This being said, anyone is free to make any project! About a year ago, I started a SDL2 R3 extension and I was then working on the DSL. I need to check how it works with Ren-C, also I should post the work I did so far, could interest some other people.
I've decided to rewrite RebelBB with Ren-C. I work occasionaly on this so it migth take some times to get it done. For now, the piece of code in charge of 'managing' threads work well. I will now move to the CGI side.
In the context of my day job, I needed a tool to process some datastreams. I've started making my own tool using Ren-C and parsing functions. So far, no bug found. I'm using 'change rule only' quite much.
 
@GregP Great news. Ren-C is slogging along; I really am focusing on trying to solve the "fundamentals" more than the "demos". If you missed it, APPLY is now userspace for instance... there are lots of "portraits of reform" like that:
If you want to revoke a refinement, you just use an unset...and IF returns unset...
;-- so try this for instance
append/dup [a b c] [d e] if 1 > 0 [2]
append/dup [a b c] [d e] if 1 < 0 [2]
Unset Changes on Rebol3 Porting Guide ("Ren-C" branch)
# Rebol2/R3-Alpha foo: function [a /b c d] [print a if b [print c]] >> foo/b 1 2 3 1 2 3 >> foo/b 1 () () ** Script error: foo does not al...
If you get some good use out of definitional return then you can look forward to, shortly, definitional self...and Rebol will be "keywordless" once-again. (Well, the evaluator will, dialects will still have them)
 
12:11 PM
All the R3 flavors should converge to a same /Core (Ren-C is an excellent initiative for this). Then, I like the idea of having modules. Some others will prefer to have R3 as a swiss army knife able to do everything from a single .exe. Different views, but still it is important to avoid being fragmented.
 
The hope is that Atronix will use Ren-C
 
Ah… ben 13 ans après, c'est plutôt raté. #rebol https://t.co/ov20d9V1iH
 
@GregP I lag in documenting sometimes on the Trello, but here's a new one for there:
Branches and Loops on Rebol3 Porting Guide ("Ren-C" branch)
# Rebol2 / R3-Alpha >> x: 5 >> switch quote :x [ :x [print "get-word :x"] ] get-word :x >> switch quote (1 + 2) [ (1 + 2) [print "paren (1 + 2)"]...
 
 
4 hours later…
4:59 PM
I mean hash functions need to be correct to work properly, but as for an example of it not working, I don't know
 
There is a test target in makefile but is not working, because src/tests/test.r don't exists. One could add tests there?
 
 
2 hours later…
6:47 PM
posted on December 12, 2015 by giuliolunati

system/options/script gives path of script relative to system/options/path but clean-path expand it relative to system/options/current-path. If I run ./r3 ../src/tests/test.r, and test.r contains print clean-path system/options/script, I get <...>ren-c/src/src/tests/test.r, different from true path of script

 
7:33 PM
I wish suffix? -> suffix-of
 
7:46 PM
>> suffix? system/options/boot
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== none
 
Ren-c gives unset!
But then cannot assign s: suffix? some-file-without-extension
 
8:07 PM
Uhmmm... in ren-c:
probe suffix %/ --> unset!
print suffix %/ --> (does nothing)
s: suffix %/ --> (unsets 's)
But if I want check extensions of files in a dir I cannot write: foreach f dir [s: suffix? f if s = %.reb [do something]], because any file w/out extension unsets 's and then 'if fails...
@HostileFork ---^
I think suffix? %/ should be %""
 
8:34 PM
>> suffix?: func [path][either all [path: find/last path #"." not find path #"/"][to file! path][%""]] suffix? %/
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== %""
 
@giuliolunati It's a mezzanine, you can redefine it easily. Good catch!
To be true to the original, the no-extension case should be #[none] instead of %"", which would also work for your needs I think.
 
8:51 PM
Ok!
@HostileFork Another doubt: append "x" #[none] --> "xnone" ??
I wish: append %r3 suffix? %r3 --> %r3, not --> %r3none ...
@MarkI ---^
 
9:10 PM
@giuliolunati Hm, in that case you are stuck with my first solution, incompatibility notwithstanding.
But for me the whole "when is something nothing" thing is a ... tough nut to crack.
 
Think if we write a function no-suffix, so that (no-suffix %script.reb) = %script, and (no-suffix %r3) = %r3 . It should be (append no-suffix whatever-file suffix? whatever-file) = whatever-file
 
I think "basename" is what that function is called in Unix land. You are right, Rebol needs it too.
 
9:37 PM
@giuliolunati That would be either trim-suffix / strip-suffix (if you want it to apply to the original) or basename-of (if you wanted a new string to be made).
@giuliolunati That change is welcome, keeping suffix? in mezz-legacy.r
@giuliolunati This is indeed a by-product of the change that IF which fails is now UNSET! instead of NONE!. In this case, suffix depending on it being NONE! was an implementation liability for that.
The question on if %"" or NONE! is the better answer is a tough one...I favor NONE! because you can write if s: suffix-of f [...] but then if NONE! is going to append to strings as "none" that's no good. We do need append [a] none => [a #[none!]] to put the none in the block, but there may be good reasons for append "a" none => "a"
Then perhaps append/only "a" none => "anone"? Because otherwise /only has no meaning for strings. Note that append [a] [] => [a] and append/only [a] [] => [a []]
The other option is to say you have to use opt. So append %r3 opt suffix-of %/. OPT was chosen as a short word to make it easy to convert nones to unsets.
 
9:59 PM
I have no doubts whatsoever at this point that UNSET! is the correct result for a failed IF, CASE, SWITCH, etc. The "nothing happened" semantic brings a coherence and Quality feeling to the process. all [1 (if 1 < 0 [2]) 3] being 3 and not NONE! is the better interpretation, and all the ripples coming out of this are quite nice.
The one negative, as I've said, is potential for typos currently with :varable access. That should be an error and not UNSET!, and it parallels the same issue with set-words like foo: func [variable] [varable: 10]. Which is to say that code needs to be in modules with ISOLATE on, so those things don't bind.
 
10:18 PM
@HostileFork I love that append/only string none solution!
 
@giuliolunati NONE! is allowed to be special if we think it's worth it...it is a close relative to UNSET! and perhaps has more in common with UNSET! than it does, say, FALSE. So rejoin ["a" none "b"] could be "ab" instead of "anoneb". But we want compose [a (none) b] to be [a #[none] b] most likely. So it is a tradeoff of whether the none is there or isn't...
But we might say it is not there for COMPOSE unless you say COMPOSE/ONLY. Hard to say.
You might like to write compose [a (any [false none]) b] and get [a b]
 
10:49 PM
@HostileFork about *-of names: I'd prefer length-of over length
 
posted on December 12, 2015 by giuliolunati

Must return NONE, not unset! suffix-of now in legacy-r3.

 
@giuliolunati There's no harm in having it and we can certainly add it. It could be the "official" name of the native, but some people spoke out saying that length-of was too long and refused it. Details: trello.com/c/4OT7qvdu/2-length-length
There was a time when I did care more about appeasing those who thought that length? was just fine for retrieving the length, despite the existence of things like head? and head.
I care less now, but that still doesn't mean I have an answer as to if LENGTH is so foundational as to get a word like NEXT does.
What we might do is follow Rebmu's strategy... define the foundationals under a longer name (length-of, next-of) and have those always available, with the shorthands also defined, but overwritten by those who think they need to.
 
I agree!
 
@giuliolunati For starters let's say length-of and length are synonyms and see where that goes.
 
11:19 PM
@giuliolunati I just hit a bug that the mold/form stack will fix! :-) It is inconvenient to not be able to do some molding and probing for debugging inside of something that happens to also be molding, and that will resolve that debugging problem...
 
11:45 PM
We have a question to ask about the generators that are making the likes of RETURN and SELF regarding how prescriptive they will be...should they protect the words? Or should you be able to say foo: function [] [return: 1 return 2 3] and get foo coming back as 3, because return 2 3 became 1 2 3?
Historically SELF was protected.
>> o: object [self: 1 foo: does [probe self]]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-self-protected.html
    *** ERROR
** Script error: cannot set/unset self - it is protected
** Where: make object
** Near: make object! append blk none
 

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