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12:18 AM
Ha, looks like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed!
 
 
4 hours later…
3:56 AM
@rgchris is the board software evaluating the post?
 
So anyone with a spare hard drive around, pick up a mirror of the HD MP4s:
Wiping the sources.
 
why not just burn them to DVD?
 
I'm being selective about my archive
And video source files from HD cameras are stupid big, along with a timeline in a format no one will use in the future, really I'd need one disc per
Unnecessary. Just get those files mirrored about a bit, I think that's all digital forensics will need. I get to make these kinds of calls.
 
@pekr I'm converting the client side software to run on an R3 webserver using JavaScript and R3 on server-side. The cameras are working quite well. Also working on an infrared solution for covert night vision.
The cameras are now on revision 150, with about 10 of those revisions happening in the last month or so. Haven't done much with Red/System recently although the cameras are still using it for motion detection. I'd like to rewrite that part to utilize the new updates made to Red over the last year and a half.
In the last week I've also designed a custom case for the cameras and printed up some on my 3D printer.
 
 
8 hours later…
11:50 AM
@rgchris Oops, your talk is at https://www.dropbox.com/s/3y5bio95lfzvgpx/chris-recode-talk.mp4?dl=0 (I pasted the carl link twice)
 
 
1 hour later…
1:14 PM
@HostileFork I'm sorry but that is BS. we had a setup in place, it was working and then the HW it was based on stopped working. I'
 
@moliad Well, simpler is better. In any case, there is no reason to rehash it, other than I've done all the editing I intend to do...the rest is up to you as I'm letting the files go.
 
The camera was a backup, it worked, but my editing station blew up the week-end of the devcon, so I've not been able to put all the conferences on line. that's the bummer.
 
Files above if you want to archive copies -^
 
I will put them in my recode vid archive. thanks for this.
 
1:22 PM
the link to chris's video is the same than Carl's link.
 
@moliad I corrected it, although the correction isn't working. Hm. Let me try again
@rgchris @moliad https://www.dropbox.com/s/5rj6tp2ve94hgyc/chris-recode-talk.mp4?dl=0 okay THAT is the link. sigh
 
thanks... will be downloading them throughout the day.
 
1:43 PM
@HostileFork looking at backlogs and honestly, after 15 years of reboling, this is a bad idea. A lot of rebol is designed around principles of strictness being the option and in practice I've used case sensitive search at most 10 times since I've started to use Rebol. And I do semantic analysis for a living.
 
@moliad It needs to be consistent either way... if "A" = "a" then it shouldn't have "A" < "a" too. I feel like the case-preserving-but-comparison-insensitivity of symbols within Rebol is fine (and it's essential to Rebmu, also)..but there are other things that are too lax.
>> <FoO> = quote foo:
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== false
 
Hm, I thought that was true, oh no wait it was
>> <FoO> = "fOo"
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== true
 
>> #foo = quote foo:
 
1:49 PM
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== true
 
Having different types compare equal like that, I don't like.
 
in my version of R3 & R2
>> "A" > "a"
== false

>> "A" < "a"
== false
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-value.html
    *** ERROR
** Script error: >> has no value
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
(as it should be)
 
>> sort "ABCabc"
 
1:51 PM
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== "ABCabc"
 
@moliad The sort implicitly does comparisons
Which was the trigger of my observation
>> sort "abcABC"
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== "ABCabc"
 
I agree that sort should NOT change the value. in this second case. SORT is the culprit.
The larger problem, I think, with unicode is that CASE is a per language thing and we have no per language CASE specification afaik, at least nothing the user change change from within R3... or is there?
 
I would imagine it is not handled in a full-unicode-spec kind of way. w3.org/International/wiki/Case_folding
 
same thing with alien encodings, it would be nice to have text codecs we can define and chose when doing text i/o.
 
1:57 PM
There is a table here, actually: github.com/rebol/rebol/blob/…
So that's what it does
 
ah it seems like the complete list. :-)
I will be coming here a bit more often in the next weeks. I am very near the process of transitioning to Rebol 3.
with stonedb now stable enough that I have time for other projects too.
gtg, will be back on monday
 
TTYL
 
 
3 hours later…
4:55 PM
@moliad Read @HostileFork's original post more carefully. It's character comparison that's case-sensitive:
;; Rebol 2:
>> system/version
== 2.7.8.4.2
>> #"a" < #"A"
== false
>> #"A" < #"a"
== true
;; Rebol 3:
>> system/version
== 2.101.0.4.4
>> #"a" < #"A"
== false
>> #"A" < #"a"
== true
Combine that with the example that SORT (in R3) being case-sensitive for sorting characters in strings. All the while string comparison and sorting strings in blocks is case-insensitive.
 
5:31 PM
posted on August 24, 2014 by Chandra MDE

Good day, How do I execute an external program in Red? Thanks and regards,Chandra

 
 
1 hour later…
6:32 PM
posted on August 24, 2014 by iArnold

Hi Chandra, You have a dll with functions in it that you want to call? Or do you want to run/start another (.exe) program? Can you please be more specific? Regards, Arnold 2014-08-24 19:29 GMT+02:00 Chandra MDE : Good day, How do I execute an external program in Red?

 
 
1 hour later…
7:39 PM
posted on August 24, 2014 by Chandra MDE

I mean to run/execute an external program such as a command-line tool not accessing external dll. On Monday, August 25, 2014 1:26:04 AM UTC+7, iArnold wrote:Hi Chandra, You have a dll with functions in it that you want to call? Or do you want to run/start another (.exe) program? Can you please be

posted on August 24, 2014 by iArnold

Hi Chandra, Thanks for clearing that up. Unfortunately I cannot tell you how to do that. Perhaps one of the other guys will help you with an answer soon. Regards, Arnold 2014-08-24 21:31 GMT+02:00 Chandra MDE : I mean to run/execute an external program such as a command-l

 
8:05 PM
red> help call
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl

USAGE:
    call cmd  /wait  /console  /shell  /input  in  /output  out  /error  err

DESCRIPTION:
     Executes a shell command to run another process..
     call is type: function!

ARGUMENTS:
     cmd  [string! block!] => A shell command, an executable file or a block.

REFINEMENTS:
     /wait => Runs command and waits for exit.
     /console => Runs command with I/O redirected to console.
     /shell => Forces command to be run from shell.
     /input
 
posted on August 24, 2014 by Brian Dickens

Hi Chandra, On Sunday, August 24, 2014 3:31:40 PM UTC-4, Chandra MDE wrote:I mean to run/execute an external program such as a command-line tool not accessing external dll.  In the Rebol/Red universe, the function for this is CALL.  If you do HELP CALL you will get the options. The in-progress imple

 
8:20 PM
@HappySpoon No—it's just botching the LOAD.
 
load involves evaluation
 
Shouldn't do.
 
it must involve some type of evalution to have an error, right?
 
rebol2> load "zero,"
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/syntax-invalid.html
    *** ERROR
code: 200
type: syntax
id: invalid
arg1: "word"
arg2: "zero,"
arg3: none
near: "(line 1) zero,"
where: none
 
8:47 PM
Here additionally for video mirroring (from different drive): red-devcon-presentation.mp4 @moliad
 
9:04 PM
posted on August 24, 2014 by Chandra MDE

Thanks Arnold and Brian. I've downloaded ANSI.REDS, WINDOWS.REDS and CALL.REDS, but Red reports a compilation error on WINDOWS.REDS. C:\Red>red -c testcall.reds -=== Red Compiler 0.4.3 ===- Compiling /C/Red/testcall.reds ... Compiling to native code...*** Compilation Error: invalid definition for fu

 
@rgchris Good news :)
in TCG Creation on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 59 secs ago, by TCG ChatBot
[skiwi2/GithubHookSEChatService] skiwi2 pushed commit ad24cdee2c to master
Added Github Ping and Push event support.
 
posted on August 24, 2014 by Chandra MDE

Ough... sorry. I put the wrong screenshot... Btw, here is the code for testcall.reds:Red/System [] #include %call.reds call/wait "dir" and here is the compilation error reported by red:C:\Red>red -c testcall.reds -=== Red Compiler 0.4.3 ===- Compiling /C/Red/testcall.reds ... Compiling to native cod

posted on August 24, 2014 by Chandra MDE

And here is the compilation error reported by Red while compiling windows.reds: C:\Red>red -c windows.reds -=== Red Compiler 0.4.3 ===- Compiling /C/Red/windows.reds ... Compiling to native code...*** Compilation Error: invalid struct syntax: [    nLength [integer!]    lpSecurityDescriptor [opaque!]

 
 
1 hour later…
10:38 PM
@earl on characters I'm less picky, though for the sake of consistency I would make them insensitive. in Parse characters are case sensitive even in case sensitive, and in that context, its ok. But outside of parse I guess it could be the same as for strings... but then strings are not chars, so they don't need to obey the same rules.
what I mean is that if strings are case insensitive, it doesn't force chars to be ... and the case insensitive string comparison is a good example where the default for strings is applied consistently (a part the sort , which is a bug in the context of the current discussion).
"in Parse characters are case sensitive even in case *IN*sensitive", default mode.
@HostileFork thanks copying it now.
 
>> parse "abc" ["ABC"]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== true
 
>> parse "abc" [#"A" #"B" #"C"]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== true
 
@rgchris the comma is an illegal char in rebol dialect, except outside of numbers, where is can separate the floating part of decimal values.
 
10:45 PM
@moliad Please continue.
 
rebol2> parse "abc" [#"A" #"B" #"C"]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== true
 
Looks like parse does case-insensitive comparisons. Well, I just think this isn't usually what people expect with strings and characters. But if it's not consistent across the board then the refinement for overriding it won't be consistent.
 
@HostileFork I take that back. sorry, I was hasty... I was testing it and hostile posted it quicker than me ;-)
I switched many of my rules into charsets, which are case sensitive in all cases (in R2 at least, not sure about R3).
case insensitive search is what you want as a human, it might not be what is standard in C derived languages (which are notoriously bad at doing what a human wants to do by default ;-)
 
@RebolBot
c: charset [#"A" #"B" #"C"]
parse "abc" [some c]
 
10:51 PM
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== true
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== true
 
@RebolBot do/2
c: charset [#"A" #"B" #"C"]
parse "abc" [some c]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== false
 
Seems to be a change in Rebol3; it's more consistent that way
 
charsets are not strings.... so no there is no consistency to speak of. charsets are very specific I really think this is a stupid change.
 
The problem in general with systems that try to be case-insensitive on strings comes down a lot to canonization. You have many different ways of saying equal things.
charsets are sets of characters.
 
10:54 PM
what is the point of having 125 different things if they all do the same thing. the point of different types is that they don't.
anyhow... I was just passing by... got to get back to installing the shower in the basement... cheers!
:-)
 
If you model them as such, then you would think that indeed a charset [#"A" #"B" #"C"] would be a synonym for a rule [#"A" | #"B" | #"C"]
In that case, the value of differentiation is performance.
 
@moliad If you don't have any kind of guiding consistency, then your "point" will be madness: 125 types give you 15625 pairwise combinations. Good luck with juggling that in your had.
And that is precisely the problem with Rebol's application of case-insensitivity: it has far too many "practical" exceptions, making it overall rather annoying.
"No, we are not case-sensitive EXCEPT for characters, where we are, because, well, it is more practical that way. No, we are not case-sensitive EXCEPT for charsets, where we are, because, well, more practical again."
In my observation, it is generally easier to get a consistent story with case-sensitive behaviour by default.
For the oft-claimed "human" aspects, most humans manage to immediately recognise that there is some difference between "Human" and "human". There is nothing inherently "human-hostile" about case sensitivity.
 

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