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12:00 AM
I assume now that this is a visual studio setup which allows cross compilation
 
huh. Atronix and Saphirion had abandoned the automated make-file process that is in the mainline repo.
 
I think I heard that.
 
I believe Shixin manually made all those makefiles
Got my laptop (windows) let me see if I can get it to compile
2 days ago, by Shixin Zeng
$make -f makefile-64 clean
@HappySpoon Does that work?
 
graham@ubuntu:~/r3/make$ make -f makefile-64 clean
rm: cannot remove 'prep-lib-stamp': No such file or directory
rm: cannot remove 'prep-core-stamp': No such file or directory
rm: cannot remove 'prep-view-stamp': No such file or directory
 
Ignore the clean step
 
12:11 AM
graham@ubuntu:~/r3/make$ make -f makefile-64
./r3-make-linux -qs ../src/tools/make-headers.r
------ Building headers
... REBOL Interface Library
... Function Prototypes
704 function prototypes
... Function Argument Enums
... REBOL Constants Strings

./r3-make-linux -qs ../src/tools/make-boot.r 0.4.40 atronix-view
--- Make Boot : System Embedded Script ---
... Evaluation Maps
... Datatype Makers
... Datatype Comparison Functions
... Datatype Definitions
UPDATE: ../include/reb-types.h
... Extension Types (Isolators)
lots of funky stuff
 
That is the build process
if it finishes, then you should have a new executable
 
where?
in the same directory?
 
Apr 27 at 11:51, by HostileFork
@earl Well I figured out what I was supposed to do, which appears to be make -f makefile-32 r3-view-linux... which required a bit of puzzling about.
 
Well, when I posted that link above, I had meant it to be the context of Shixin giving instructions rather than the single msg
@HappySpoon I believe so, that's where I see it in building mainline
@HappySpoon You did leave off the r3-view-linux on that
 
@kealist get lots of errors if I add it
 
12:21 AM
Me too. Not sure if they have built this on Windows
 
how to make just the r3-core ?
 
try that (r3-core) that's what it says in the makefile
make -f makefile-64 r3-core
 
graham@ubuntu:~/r3/make$ make -f makefile-64 r3-core
make: *** No rule to make target `r3-core'.  Stop.
 
@kealist I think that's what you get by default, but it presumably has a target name as well if you look around.
 
@HappySpoon You didn't get any executable the first build process you did?
 
12:32 AM
nope
where are the target names defined?
 
@HappySpoon did it give an error?
 
heaps
 
Yeah, that's what I'm getting on Windows as well
ah yes, need to have FFI installed
 
but then I was trying to build a view on an ubuntu server
 
forgot about that, do you have the developer ffi tools installed?
libffi
 
12:36 AM
I was just trying to build the main line
not that branch
 
I think they need to revise their readme to reflect the changes they have made
I gotta give up for now
 
1:08 AM
@HappySpoon make -f makefile-64 r3-core-linux
Or make -f makefile-64 r3-view-linux for a /View binary.
 
better
graham@ubuntu:~/r3/make$ make -f makefile-64 r3-core-linux
#./r3-make-linux -qs ../src/tools/rma-init.r atronix-view
#-rm -f objs/host-main.o objs/host-args.o objs/host-device.o objs/host-stdio.o o
bjs/dev-net.o objs/dev-dns.o objs/host-lib.o objs/dev-stdio.o objs/dev-event.o o
bjs/dev-file.o objs/host-core.o objs/dev-clipboard.o objs/host-readline.o objs/i
so-639.o objs/iso-3166.o objs/file-chooser-gtk.o
./r3-make-linux -qs ../src/tools/core-ext.r
--- Make Host Boot Extension ---
... REBOL Core extension
only one error, missing Xlib.h .. but isn't that a GUI library?
 
pkg-config missing as well
 
sudo apt-get install libx11-dev
let's try that first
 
And:
sudo apt-get install pkg-config
 
graham@ubuntu:~/r3/make$ make -f makefile-64 r3-core-linux
#./r3-make-linux -qs ../src/tools/rma-init.r atronix-view
#-rm -f objs/host-main.o objs/host-args.o objs/host-device.o objs/host-stdio.o
bjs/dev-net.o objs/dev-dns.o objs/host-lib.o objs/dev-stdio.o objs/dev-event.o
bjs/dev-file.o objs/host-core.o objs/dev-clipboard.o objs/host-readline.o objs/
so-639.o objs/iso-3166.o objs/file-chooser-gtk.o
gcc ../src/os/linux/dev-event.c -c -DTO_LINUX_X64 -O2 -Wno-pointer-sign -DREB_C
RE -DMIN_OS -DREB_EXE   -fvisibility=hidden  -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -DCUSTOM_ST
missing a font or font manager now
apt-get install libfreetype6-dev ?
 
1:19 AM
@HappySpoon yes
 
In file included from ../src/os/linux/dev-event.c:51:0:
../src/os/linux/host-window.h:7:33: fatal error: X11/extensions/Xdbe.h: No suc
file or directory
 #include <X11/extensions/Xdbe.h>
Just keeps on going :(
 
libxext-dev
 
objs/host-main.o: In function `main':
host-main.c:(.text.startup+0x91): undefined reference to `Init_Windows'
host-main.c:(.text.startup+0x96): undefined reference to `OS_Init_Graphics'
host-main.c:(.text.startup+0xd8): undefined reference to `OS_Destroy_Graphics'
objs/host-device.o:(.data+0x38): undefined reference to `Dev_Clipboard'
objs/host-lib.o: In function `OS_Exit':
host-lib.c:(.text+0x1cb): undefined reference to `OS_Destroy_Graphics'
objs/host-lib.o: In function `OS_Request_File':
host-lib.c:(.text+0x7fa): undefined reference to `os_init_gtk'
gtk? gob_to_image? in core ?
 
looks like a mixed-up build
make -f makefile-64 clean
then again:
make -f makefile-64 r3-core-linux
 
yah!
builds!
Ok, got to document this somewhere !
Before I forget
Now if I want the external c library interface, how do I get that branch?
using git
>> read stackoverflow.com
** Script error: recursive calls to WAIT
** Where: wait unless do-commands switch -apply- wake-up loop -apply- wait whil
 sync-op either read
** Near: wait [ctx/connection 30] [do make error! "port timeout"]
curses!
 
1:34 AM
@HappySpoon git checkout -b zsx-ffi origin/ffi
and use apt-get install libffi-dev to install the required libffi dependency
 
graham@ubuntu:~/r3$ git checkout -b zsx-ffi origin/ffi
Branch zsx-ffi set up to track remote branch ffi from origin.
Switched to a new branch 'zsx-ffi'
is that correct ?
 
@HappySpoon Yes.
 
whew!
so the above make should now compile this branch?
 
Yes
 
no other steps required?
 
1:38 AM
No
 
../src/core/m-gc.c: In function 'Mark_Series':
../src/core/m-gc.c:443:8: error: 'REB_CALLBACK' undeclared (first use in this fu
nction)
   case REB_CALLBACK:
        ^
../src/core/m-gc.c:443:8: note: each undeclared identifier is reported only once
 for each function it appears in
../src/core/m-gc.c:444:8: error: 'REB_ROUTINE' undeclared (first use in this fun
ction)
   case REB_ROUTINE:
        ^
make: *** [objs/m-gc.o] Error 1
 
clean first
 
 objs/t-routine.o
../src/core/t-routine.c: In function 'MT_Routine':
../src/core/t-routine.c:751:32: error: 'FFI_STDCALL' undeclared (first use in th
is function)
         VAL_ROUTINE_ABI(out) = FFI_STDCALL;
                                ^
../src/core/t-routine.c:751:32: note: each undeclared identifier is reported onl
y once for each function it appears in
../src/core/t-routine.c:770:32: error: 'FFI_THISCALL' undeclared (first use in t
his function)
         VAL_ROUTINE_ABI(out) = FFI_THISCALL;
 
7 mins ago, by earl
and use apt-get install libffi-dev to install the required libffi dependency
 
@earl did that before
can do it again if it helps
 
1:45 AM
No, if you've it installed, that should work
 
graham@ubuntu:~/r3/make$ sudo apt-get install libffi-dev
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
libffi-dev is already the newest version.
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 69 not upgraded.
graham@ubuntu:~/r3/make$
exited shell, and tried it again. Different errors now
cc ../src/core/t-routine.c -c -DTO_LINUX_X64 -DREB_API  -O2  -Wno-pointer-sign -
fvisibility=hidden -fPIC -I. -I../src/include/ -I../src/codecs/ -I../src/freetyp
e-2.4.12/include `pkg-config freetype2 --cflags` `pkg-config libffi --cflags` -o
 objs/t-routine.o
../src/core/t-routine.c: In function 'MT_Routine':
../src/core/t-routine.c:751:32: error: 'FFI_STDCALL' undeclared (first use in th
is function)
         VAL_ROUTINE_ABI(out) = FFI_STDCALL;
                                ^
../src/core/t-routine.c:751:32: note: each undeclared identifier is reported onl
 
that looks like libffi headers missing
 
Have you tried compiling this yourself?
 
Builds fine for me, yes.
ubuntu 14.04 you say?
 
yeah.
installed it today under hyper-V
 
2:01 AM
3
Q: GLib compile error (ffi.h), but libffi is installed

deltalucaAfter a succesful configure, make exits with snipped gclosure.c:29:17: fatal error: ffi.h: No such file or directory compilation terminated. I have libffi installed, and locate ffi.h gives: /home/luca/gcc4.6/gcc-4.6.0/libffi/include/ffi.h.in /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/ffi.h /usr/share/doc/...

Is this relevant?
Since the make looks like it can't find the installed libffi
 
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install build-essential
sudo apt-get install git
sudo apt-get install pkg-config
sudo apt-get install libffi-dev libx11-dev libxext-dev libfreetype6-dev libfontconfig1-dev
git clone github.com/zsx/r3
cd r3/make
wget -O r3-make atronixengineering.com/r3/downloads/r3-64-view-linux
chmod +x r3-make
make -f makefile-64 r3-core-linux
buils fine for me on ubuntu 14.04
 
well, mine built fine too, but not with the libffi
 
right
let me checkout the ffi branch
interesting
I get the same error as you do
So Ubuntu's libffi version is either too old or too new :)
 
and not my fault! lol
 
nope, not your fault :)
delete (or #ifdef out) the STDCALL, THISCALL, FASTCALL cases from src/core/t-routine.c and it'll build
 
2:32 AM
It built. What's the effect of the #ifdef #endif ?
 
disables some functionality ubuntu's libffi version doesn't support
nothing important
 
ok, thanks. Uploaded it to r3gui.com/assets/r3-core-linux if anyone wants to try it out. 64 bit build.
 
3:18 AM
Will have to see if this can be made to work under R3 compkarori.co.nz:8000/OpenDBX
 
 
4 hours later…
6:52 AM
@Adrian how's things?
In the FBP world ...
 
hey Graham - the project got tight wrt the budget so they scaled things down. My contract wasn't renewed and they laid off some full time devs as well.
It's too bad, I really thought we were moving along in terms of getting the infrastructure in place.
@HappySpoon I like your new persona. Balances the Fork.
 
I'm like a nuclear pile moderator :)
@Adrian That's no good. So, back to Rebol huh?
 
@HappySpoon heh, from what I see, I don't know if it could pay the bills yet.
 
Someone is looking for a full time R3 developer!
Community funded ... ie. no $$
 
but I was thinking that it could be an interesting exercise to create an FBP runtime for Rebol components.
 
7:03 AM
What approach would you use?
Considering Rebol is single threaded.
 
well, since the concurrency situation is not well defined (still), I thought that the runtime would be a C extension (with threading) that would schedule components written as Rebol modules which would communicate using sockets.
 
so, the bulk of it would be written in C?
 
A runtime is actually pretty small, actually.
 
Sorry for the question - whas is FBP?
 
All it does is schedule the components that are in a ready state (and which have an IP in their input queue) to process that input.
flow based programming, Petr
 
7:09 AM
@Adrian if you did it in java, we could use it on Android too?
 
in contrast to data flow programming which can appear to be similar, but is quite different
 
thans ... googled only something towards the profiBus, Scada ... which would be interesting too :-)
 
@HappySpoon the Rebol extension mechanism is meant to be done using C so I would think that's the simplest runtime to create first.
@pekr FBP is not really specific to any one domain, so Scada could be a target.
@HappySpoon another possibility for inter-component communication could be memory mapped files (where it makes sense)
 
well, we now have the ability to load libraries dynamically
in case you missed it.
 
@HappySpoon I've read, but I don't know if that would simplify this kind of project.
 
7:17 AM
well, if you decide to do this, I'd like to test .
I'm working on a simple workflow alone the lines of Amazon's swf at present
 
I was thinking that the stuff you've just recently done wrt networking/GUI might be relevant. Need to look at it in more depth since I only briefly glanced at it.
 
that was a single gui server with umpteen clients
 
From what I see of SWF, it's close to what you can achieve with FBP.
 
lots of polling involved
better if it could all be event driven
 
well, it could be if that stuff was done at the C level
in other words if that was the FBP runtime
 
7:23 AM
otherwise each node would have to be both server and client
 
components should not need to worry about IO
well, at least in the way I'm thinking about things
of course, if you're talking about multiple FBP runtimes communicating in a larger, distributed system, there would be edge components that would marshal data across
 
I'd be happy to see a single implementation
 
In our runtime the components were all running in the same process and the IPs passed around were JSON-like Lisp structures.
If you have one runtime working, having more is no different.
 
No NDAs to worry about?
 
It's really nice how modular a system can be when built this way.
No, if I were to do this with Rebol/C there would be no problem. There are already various runtime implementations for various languages (Java, JavaScript, C#, C++, etc)
 
7:30 AM
Yeah, but I'm more concerned about linking consecutive IO tasks
 
@HappySpoon why would this be a problem?
 
Just trying to do things while not blocking a Rebol2 gui ...
eg. sometimes I have to send docs to servers to get the text recognition done
and I can't wait till they finish.
 
@HappySpoon you shouldn't need to
 
In Rebol2 it means rewriting all http tasks as async
and then you have issues when things don't complete
 
@HappySpoon with FBP, I'd have socket input from outside the runtime being handled at the C level (using some kind of library, probably).
components shouldn't worry about IO, as I mentioned above
at least not the 'regular' components
 
7:39 AM
I've never played with live fbp stuff though had a flick through the book
 
By 'regular' I mean in contrast to some components that would be automagically added to the system to handle such things as marshaling, for example
@HappySpoon if this workflow stuff is of interest to you, I think you might want to look into FBP
I think with Rebol/Red as the implementation language of the components you'd have a very productive environment.
 
well, Red still has no IO ... but I guess it will happen
 
It's just so nice to have very clearly delineated boundaries between components. Maybe REN could be the protocol used between components.
@HappySpoon Yeah, if Red/System was a bit farther along it could be used in place of C to create the runtime.
 
At present I'm struggling with sending scripts between components to execute
debugging is painful
 
But as I mentioned already, a runtime doesn't have to be very complicated.
 
7:45 AM
And the programming of the system could be done with a GUI?
 
@HappySpoon what we did is have the runtime be instrumented (if desired) so each component would have it's inputs and outputs printed out as the system ran.
 
have you seen noflo?
 
@HappySpoon yeah
 
My interest really is in trying to reduce the complexity of what I'm doing.
 
You might read Paul Morisson's contrast of noflo to his take on FBP
 
7:47 AM
and make it more robust.
Yeah, he said it was quite different.
but it seems to have captured some mindshare
 
@HappySpoon I don't think you can have a simpler system to reason about than what you can achieve with FBP.
@HappySpoon It has, but not as much as I would've thought.
 
their kickstarter was subscribed
but then I saw JPM's attempt to use it .. and it was not easy
 
yeah, the approach they took isn't ideal
JavaScript is partially at fault there, IMO.
 
So, all I'm doing at present is creating tasks which can be performed by any client, and when finished, they submit back to my app. Since my app is also a web server, I get an event which allows me to act on the data returned, and deal with it using a callback.
 
@HappySpoon When you say programming, what do you have in mind?
 
7:53 AM
Seems to work so far.
@Adrian GUI connecting components graphically
which equates to programming the inputs and outputs
 
@HappySpoon you mean the equivalent of JPM's editor?
 
I guess so.
Never seen it.
 
@HappySpoon yeah, that should be possible
 
I was thinking when I was compiling r3-linux that all of this could be done using fbp
 
what we were going for was to have even the contents of a single component be diagrammatically described
And we had a compiler that would take both types of diagrams (component wiring and intra-component flow) and produce code in a specific target language
 
7:58 AM
nice
so a component dialect
 
@HappySpoon it really is - I wouldn't have thought that you could easily create a visual flow that could be compiled without too much trouble
we were using Drakon for the intra-component diagrams
 
@Adrian interesting ... never heard of it
 
The intent was to build our own editor which would allow both wiring and control flow diagrams to be created.
 
so, the project is canned or in sleep mode?
 
The thing with Drakon is that it is very specific as to how flow is described so it's relatively easy to parse a diagram.
@HappySpoon No, it's continuing with a reduced team and scope.
 
8:05 AM
So, what would the engine you envisage do?
 
you mean the runtime?
 
yes
send and receive data between ports. Call associated Rebol code.
 
It would manage a set of Rebol modules (which would have their data hidden from each other) by running them in parallel and providing them with inputs as these are available and the respective components are in a ready state.
 
in the swf, I'd imagined each worker was specialised only doing a single task.
But now that I'm thinking about it, a worker can really do any task as long as it gets the right instructions.
 
Where I'd have to look closer is at Rebol's event handling. What I'd like is to have multiple threads calling into event callbacks if there are some guarantees (not enforced, but at least followed by convention) about what data (there should be practically nothing) is shared between threads.
 
8:16 AM
It just needs to load the right module when needed
 
@HappySpoon there's one guy at the Toronto FBP meetups that created an FBP runtime using TCL. Probably close to what you're going for.
 
At present we don't have user events
 
each component is a separately running TCL instance.
@HappySpoon I guess these wouldn't have to be user events, but could be additional system events added to the Rebol runtime.
 
And I guess we'll have to ask Earl or ShixinZeng
 
@HappySpoon Probably the guys who'd know best.
I'm probably thinking too naively about how this could work given Rebol's current runtime. I'm guessing that the main reason concurrency is still an issue is because of non-threadsafe code in parts of the runtime such as the interpreter and not because of a lack of synchronization mechanisms between Rebol code you'd like to run in parallel.
 
8:38 AM
Guess in the meantime I plod on with my experiments
 
8:49 AM
@HappySpoon you're pretty much talking about an FBP runtime here. The 'instructions' are basically the contract implied by the 'wiring' between components.
why not define some actual wiring for your workflows?
 
I'm just in the stage of experimentation.
How would you suggest I do the wiring? Have dedicated clients?
 
Have a specifications file that describes how the components are interconnected.
 
And how does that help? Apart from documentation?
 
Use that specifications file to allow another Rebol process to act as the FBP runtime and run the nodes (i.e. send the appropriate data that it is managing to the ready component). Each component should have a busy bit associated with it that the runtime keeps track of. It would be set to busy as soon as one component accepts some input and would be unset when the component calls back into the runtime with its output.
I guess it's in the receiving async input from the various components that you were saying it is a problem, no?
 
Yes
So, I need to restart a task if one fails due to IO issues or whatever,
@Adrian this would require each component to have some type of listening port
 
9:10 AM
@HappySpoon sure - why would that be a problem?
 
It's not. Just clarifying.
At present I'm retrofiitting this to my Rebol2 app.
 
As each component was started by the runtime, the port numbers would be specified such that there shouldn't be any collisions.
These ports should not need to be specified in the wiring definition.
 
So, a general purpose rebol FBP process
 
The runtime?
 
yes
 
9:22 AM
well, I don't know if it's general purpose in that it shouldn't do too much other than start components and pass data between them as per the wiring specification.
 
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 348 so chat away!
 
It should also maintain a queue of components that are non-busy (i.e. have just returned some output) along with the data that was returned for each.
Have to get some sleep - I'll think about your situation some more since it might be easier to achieve some form of FBP with that approach.
 
later
 
l8tr
 
 
1 hour later…
10:56 AM
@Adrian thinking about it, Rebolbot could use the help. We can launch slave processes to handle http requests, as these are the ones that are most likely to kill her. And also launch other versions of her to handle other rooms.
 
11:34 AM
Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 76 so chat away!
 
 
7 hours later…
6:58 PM
How could add a new key to an existing object (w/out creating a new object)?
 
7:24 PM
>> foo: make object! [a: 1 b: 2]
extend foo 'c 3
probe foo
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
make object! [
    a: 1
    b: 2
    c: 3
]
== RESULT is an object of value:
   a               integer!  1
   b               integer!  2
   c               integer!  3
 
@giuliolunati That's Rebol 3—there's no way to extend an object in Rebol 2.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:47 PM
>> foo: make object! [a: 1 b: 2]
? foo
append foo [c: 3]
? foo
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
FOO is an object of value:
   a               integer!  1
   b               integer!  2

FOO is an object of value:
   a               integer!  1
   b               integer!  2
   c               integer!  3
 
why do we need extend when we have append ?
 
@rgchris @HappySpoon - thank you so much!
 
9:06 PM
@happyspoon
>> a: 1 o: object[] append o [k: a] extend o 'h a
>> delete
 
@RebolBot delete
 
@rebolbot delete
 
Note that >> is used to execute a Rebol command. @Rebolbot commands are commands to tell the bot to do something.
@RebolBot delete
Very different.
 
>> a: 1 o: object[] append o [k: a] extend o 'h a probe o
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
make object! [
    k: 'a
    h: 1
]
== RESULT is an object of value:
   k               word!     a
   h               integer!  1
 
9:10 PM
@happyspoon extend evaluate a
 
append does not evaluate?
 
Not - see above
>> source extend
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
extend: make function! [[
    {Extend an object, map, or block type with word and value pair.}
    obj [object! map! block! paren!] "object to extend (modified)"
    word [any-word!]
    val
][
    if :val [append obj reduce [to-set-word word :val]]
    :val
]]
 
So extend is built upon append...
 

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