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12:06 AM
Kev, Perthshire, Scotland
50.3k 16 132 224
@Kev Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 50306 so chat away!
 
@kev never met anyone with a rep so high!
 
Kev
@GrahamChiu lol...and hi :)
 
You've met our bot :)
 
Kev
@GrahamChiu yeah, is that a chat room feature these days?
 
@Kev Only for this room :)
So, you're not a chat person then?
 
Kev
12:13 AM
@GrahamChiu cool. I've not really been about much of late, been a bit busy with work and RL
but the SO dev team are always adding nice new surprises
 
What brings you to this room? Curiousity?
 
Kev
yeah, curiosity. I used to fiddle with Rebol back in 1998
 
Ah.... that was a while ago.
 
Kev
then saw this room and it's large number of users
and it piqued my interest
 
It was open sourced in Dec 2012 and since then we've been working on trying to bring Rebol 3 to beta
 
Kev
12:16 AM
Aye, I remember the announcement. Carl should've done that years ago
 
Most of the main players were in Montreal for the Rebol/Red conference ... and now they're just soaking up the sun!
 
Kev
I've always kept an eye on Rebol over the years, so nice to see it get some open source love and all that
 
A lot of things should have happened years ago ...
Seneca tells us to ignore the past and just move forwards which we are doing
 
Kev
yeah, learn from any big glaring mistakes and look forwards.
 
Red is the attempt to get a compiled version of Rebol .. but also a full stack
rebol3 is Carl's rewrite to get things right
 
Kev
12:19 AM
Might have to build my bloggy and cv/resume site in Rebol now :)
@GrahamChiu - what part of NZ you from?
 
@Kev Wellington
You been to NZ?
Or just watched the All Blacks :)
 
Kev
@GrahamChiu yeah...came over for a couple of months back in 2005. My brother lives on Stewart Island
 
@Kev Pretty isolated there .. I visited the once about 25 years ago
 
@fergus, Hey Alan - is this the first time you've dropped by? Don't recall seeing your avatar before. I know you can't talk yet, but you're very close.
 
Kev
Didn't get to see any of North Island except Auckland a/port
 
12:22 AM
Oh well, there'll be more chances
or just watch the Hobbit
 
Kev
lol
so is this like the "official" Rebol hangout?
 
@HostileFork I'm already missing you guys and I'm only on the train on the way back.
 
@Kev Pretty much so .. there are non public hangouts but we discourage the use of those
There might be some people still on IRC too
@rebolbot binaries for Kev
 
Hopefully the conference pushed the big Sync button so we can start to move forwards faster
 
Kev
12:26 AM
@GrahamChiu nice one. I'm going to duck out for now, but will start hanging around here in future.
 
@Kev look forward to seeing you here
especially since you out rep @HostileFork :)
@earl it crashed again but I wasn't watching so missed the top
 
Kev
@GrahamChiu mind you look at my user ID :) I was in the first batch of beta users
 
@GrahamChiu Nevermind, the hunch I had about the -12 having meaning was ill-founded. Thanks for trying, though.
 
Kev
@GrahamChiu I'm offski, g'night.
 
@Kev night ( or afternoon for me )
 
12:37 AM
@graham, can you try to ping me on Skype? Tried to write something there for you, but it seems to be stuck spinning it's wheels. Maybe if you try to reach me it'll unstick it.
 
Ok, but I'm not a regular skype user
which is why things don't reach me :(
 
I think this is just some temporary thing because I'm using the train's wifi.
 
@earl it reached about 8% memory before it died
 
@GrahamChiu interesting. 8% of how much?
 
1.7Gb is how much they give you of a microinstance
but even 8% seems a lot since it's only storing these messages in ram
 
12:50 AM
0
A: What is the meaning of a -12 error on a tcp open in Rebol 3

earlWhile it may be tempting to think that the "-12" somehow corresponds to a POSIX error number (ENOMEM being 12 would be a somewhat fitting candidate), I fear that the "-12" is just a value hard-coded into R3 without a particular meaning. In the TCP port's "actor" code we find the following line: ...

 
@BrianH, I searched CureCode, but couldn't find any notes from you on SPLIT, other than one that said you think it needs a rewrite.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:09 AM
20 Points! Hi Everyone!
 
@fergus Hi alan
 
@fergus - here you go
 
 
2 hours later…
3:59 AM
@fergus Hey Alan, glad you could make it!
@Kev Upping the Scottish presence here—can only be a good thing!
@Adrian It's harder to drag these guys out without you...
 
 
5 hours later…
9:15 AM
@pekr ouvert = open
The 'ouvert' sign is obviously there because Rebol and Red are open-source! And note that the wall is made of Red (software?) bricks.
Who are the busy fellows sitting on Red chairs on the picture? Chris on the right? Fork under a cap? and?...
 
@pierre - thanks :-)
 
You're welcome - vous êtes le bienvenu!
By the way, in France, we say "open source", in pure Frenglish, when we mention open source projects. "Code ouvert" is not so used...
 
@pierre - you know, my question, in fact, was a joke :-) Asking about the "ouvert", not asking in fact - who are those fine guys at the photo :-)
 
@pekr ;-)
@pekr But who are they?? Avatars and real full-sized ID pictures don't match very often...
 
9:31 AM
isn't second on the left Maxim?
 
Hi. Is Rebol 3 with GUI available for download?
I found only Rebol/Core
 
941 1 2 4
@mshameers Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 941 so chat away!
 
@SoleSoul - where were you looking for it? I think, that for the GUI, you need Saphirion's distro, so look at the following site - development.saphirion.com
 
@pekr Thanks. I searched here: rebolsource.net
 
@SoleSoul Hello. Yesterday, I tried a Saphirion Rebol3, to try the GUI: it didn't work.
 
9:39 AM
@pierre oh, on which platform did you test it?
 
@SoleSoul Debian GNU/Linux, stable, 32 bits
I am trying to get where I got the binaries from...
 
@pierre Yesterday someone told me that the r3 GUI works on Windows and Amiga.
I usually use Archlinux but now I booted to Windows Server 2012 R2 to try the GUI on that.
 
@SoleSoul Amiga? I thought it was only working on windows and android? Now I'm confused...
@SoleSoul Sorry about this.
 
Yes, they said android also. I forgot.
 
@SoleSoul According to @shadwolf, Rebol3 is working perfectly using wine; I think he is on archlinux too.
@SoleSoul There it is: I downloaded stuff from there: development.saphirion.com/experimental/builds/linux
I first ran ./r3-view-host-linux
./r3-view-host-linux: error while loading shared libraries: libr3.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
=> although libr3.so is in the same directory.
Maybe I should move it to some kind of /usr/lib/ ?
 
9:44 AM
@pierre Are you on 64 or 32 bits? maybe it looks for a different architecture than the one you have?
 
32 bits
./r3-core-host-linux
./r3-core-host-linux: error while loading shared libraries: libr3.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
 
Oh, you got the .so from the same zip file as the rebol executable
Are you sure that this file is not 64 bit?
 
But this one runs fine:
./r3-view-linux
**************************************************************************
** **
** REBOL 3.0 [Alpha Test] **
** **
** Copyright: 2013 REBOL Technologies **
** All rights reserved. **
** Website: www.REBOL.com **
@SoleSoul Dunno.
 
When trying to open a 64 bit file on a 32 bit Linux system the error message is " No such file or directory"
 
No, it is a 32 bits too:
# pierre@durandeux: ~/rebol/saphirion/experimental/builds/linux$ < 2013_07_15__15_04_44 >
file r3-core-host-linux
r3-core-host-linux: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0xd5287c3b32d0e97667322f17321e318f85d0d16f, stripped
 
9:46 AM
Yes I see
 
When I run ./r3-view-linux and I try to get the demo, I get an error message:
>> demo
Fetching demo...
Script: "Untitled" Version: none Date: none
Fetching GUI...
** Math error: math or number overflow
** Where: + repeat do update-panel actor all foreach do-actor case repeat do update-panel actor all foreach do-actor either -apply- apply case view catch either either -apply- do try demo
** Near: + min-heights/:i max-pane/y: either any [
max-pane/y = m...
 
I'm on Windows now so I won't try it immediately but I may try it later on a 64bit Archlinux
 
Everyone says that GUI works well on windows. The use of this sort of old-fashioned OS is forbidden, where I work...
 
I'm no expert of Rebol. I don't know what can be the problem.
:) "this OS"
I'd try it later, but first I'll try the Windows version.
 
I used to Rebol daily, a long time ago (early 2000's), and the true magic of it (from my humble point of view) was that everything was running *exactly* the same, either:
- on my windows machines at work (at the time),
- on my linux machines at home,
- on my wife's Mac Mini at home.
And this was just invaluable.
 
9:50 AM
I agree. But 3 isn't ready yet.
 
Afterwards, I discovered the true Beauty of Rebol.
@SoleSoul Well, almost. At the time, this was on Rebol2 that I was working.
 
Which is?
 
@SoleSoul I could not tell you exactly.
 
I'll keep the secret
I can guess. It's the way you can change the language to fit the domain of the problem. Is that it?
 
Every time I start a rebol3 and try to do something, it break my nerves when there is no auto-completion at the shell, or I want to backspace and the result is totally uncoherent. Or I want to do a GUI, and ... I'm stuck.
Whereas I run a "good old" Rebol2, and everything is there, perfectly working.
But Rebol2 is and will remain closed-source, so it is a dead-end (in my humble opinion).
 
9:53 AM
Well, it's still useful.
 
@SoleSoul VERY useful!
 
Starcraft is also closed source.
And I don't care :)
 
Don't know this one. And I don't care, either.
 
It's a game
 
ok, I'm not a gamer, at all. My son probably knows all of these things.
 
9:55 AM
I just meant to say that just as a game can be closed source and no one cares, one can look at Rebol2 that way. It may have no future but the present is good.
 
If I remember well, @SoleSoul, you are in the process of discovering Rebol/Red, correct?
 
@pierre true
 
@SoleSoul True.
Have you checked Nick's tutorials? If you're after graphics, they're very neat, I found.
Let me try to get an URL or two...
 
@pierre I'm interested in 3 things: Functional programming, GUI, and optionally objects.
 
(my firefox crashed...)
Functional programming => I cannot help you with this. I read a few things about it, but I couldn't get the idea.
 
10:00 AM
It's ok. I've learned functional programming with Haskell.
 
GUI: you can check some of Nick's great tutos:
http://business-programming.com/business_programming.html
 
Can the Saphirion branch be considered official or at least close enough?
I mean, is it a niche implementation or mainstream?
 
@SoleSoul Who would dare to answer this one? ;-)
 
An opinion from someone who knows Rebol for more than a week would be good for me.
 
I am re-diving into Rebol world, and diving into the Red one, after a long period of abstinence.
 
10:04 AM
Ok.
 
The reason for this abstinence was that Rebol was closed-source: so I focused on other solutions, mainly python.
Now that it became open-source, things have changed.
But then, I realize that many things had occurred while I was out of Rebol sphere. History...
I spent a while trying to figure out what happened and not. A French forum (I'm French), digicamsoft.com/cgi-bin/rebelBB.cgi (rebol-powered!) helped me much to understand what went on.
@RebolBot present
 
@pierre pierre SoleSoul pekr rgchris GrahamChiu kealist johnk Oldes
 
@SoleSoul Since no one dares, I will express my opinion, which may well be wrong: Saphirion developed its own Rebol 3 version, with GUI; I am not sure whether it is open-source, at this time.
 
Sadly I know very little french, but yesterday I learned quite a few things about what's going on form the people here. They are from the US so it's still early for them.
 
There are a few Rebol 3 forks on github. My feeling is that this community needs unity. There was great hope in ReCode so that people could gather, speak openly, and eventually come to such a unity.
 
10:11 AM
I'm going to try their version anyway because it's the only option. I was just curious what's going to be in the long term.
 
From what I understood, good decisions were made, so that discussions will eventually take place on ONE place (here, for now), documentation should be concentrated on ONE (or few) websites, old websites should be archived somewhere, etc.
@SoleSoul No, there are other options:
 
With GUI?
 
you can fork from github, or get the builds from the farm.
@SoleSoul Hm, I'm afraid not... :-/
 
@SoleSoul - Saphirion R3 GUI is open sourced, as well as their R3 core. They also claimed they are preparing their distro to move to Github too, so no worries ....
 
@pekr Thanks! I was not sure about these details...
 
10:15 AM
Great. I'll start toying with Rebol using their version.
(off topic - they have a cool website)
 
We are in a period of (re)construction: one should expect reference websites to change soon, when the community (us) will gradually take control, and contribute. I guess huge quantities of work will be needed soon...
@SoleSoul Enjoy!
@pekr Do you have an idea why this library doesn't load? chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/10625228#10625228
 
@pierre - not sure, we should consult with Saphirion, Cyphre most probably ...
 
 
1 hour later…
11:24 AM
@pierre Same error here launching the demo
I tried a more basic example as well
>> load-gui
Fetching GUI...
>> view [ text "Test" ]
** Script error: in does not allow none! for its object argument
** Where: reduce either parse reduce-opts view unless actor all foreach do-actor if view
** Near: reduce val
This is linux on an old 32-bit machine
 
On Windows it works.
 
@SoleSoul That is good :-) I use windows at work
 
This business-programming.com/business_programming.html is indeed a very good source to learn Rebol from. It uses Rebol 2. Is there anything even remotely as useful as this for Rebol 3?
 
@SoleSoul Unfortunately, not yet. Saphirion have some docs on the gui which are a good place to start.
Many of the docs here are good as well, although these are not complete.
Most of the non-gui parts of business-programming.com/business_programming.html will probably run as is in Rebol 3, but if you find some which are not working then ask here and someone will help.
 
11:41 AM
@johnk Thanks. Rebol 2 is complete and has great documentation but everyone says to learn Rebol 3 so I'm a little stuck in the middle.
 
@SoleSoul We have quite a job to get the docs up to the same level ...
 
I'll see if what we already have is enough to learn Rebol. I hope so.
 
Aslam, Bangalore, India
20 5
@Aslam Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 20 so chat away!
 
@SoleSoul Good luck
Hi @Aslam have you ever heard of the Rebol or Red languages?
 
12:02 PM
Thanks
 
posted on July 16, 2013 by Ladislav

[Comment] "The errors triggered or returned by TRANSCODE are some of its most important features, and we need to make them as useful as possible." - agreed. However, Ingo is right that after finding out that there was an error it is a bad idea to parse additional characters from the input. Without a mind-reading module TRANSCODE cannot guess what the intent was. (might have been some kind of c

 
12:19 PM
https under linux is working well. Just sent a test tweet from Rebol 3 over https using the saphirion build.
 
Good to know.
 
1:13 PM
Don't be stuck: Rebol 2 and 3 are not so different, from a Rebol coder (user) point of view. Some differences are there, but not so much.
What I would suggest would be to have two interpreters side by side, a Rebol 2 and a Rebol 3, and of course an editor: then you copy/paste your code to both interpreters, you'll soon figure out the different behaviors.
 
@pierre It sure is possible, but it adds a level of complexity. I think it would be better to first go over the available Rebol 3 documentation and only then look at the Rebol 2 docs if anything is missing. Do you disagree?
 
@SoleSoul I would not disagree, I wouldn't dare... But I wouldn't do it this way ;-)
If you appreciate Nick's style, I would suggest you follow his tuto with a Rebol 2.
You will be very quickly into the Rebol way of thinking.
There is also another very good document, Rebol in 10 steps. I'm looking for the URL...
I got something a bit similar:
>> load-gui
Fetching GUI...
>> view [text "coucou"]
** Math error: math or number overflow
** Where: + repeat do update-panel actor all foreach do-actor case repeat do update-panel actor all foreach do-actor either -apply- apply case view
** Near: + min-heights/:i max-pane/y: either any [
max-pane/y = m...
@SoleSoul Here are the ten steps: rebol.com/rebolsteps.html => an excellent, short guide to help you dive into Rebol simplicity.
 
@pierre Looks good. It reminds me of the first chapter of the Rebol 2 manual but it explains a few more topics than the chapter.
Thanks
 
@SoleSoul You're very welcome.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:51 PM
@SoleSoul @pierre @johnk Out of Saphirion's builds, the Win32 ones are the only one with a working GUI. The OSX and Linux "View" versions currently only include image drawing, not the full feature-set necessary for the GUI.
@pierre You need to have libr3.so in your loaders search path, or adjust this path accordingly. Try LD_LIBRARY_PATH=. ./r3-view-host-linux, that should work.
 
Still, it did not work:
# pierre@durandeux: ~/rebol/saphirion/experimental/builds/linux$ < 2013_07_15__15_04_44 >
./r3-view-host-linux
./r3-view-host-linux: error while loading shared libraries: libr3.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
Okay, if I:
# root@durandeux: /home/pierre/rebol/saphirion/experimental/builds/linux$ < 2013_07_10__19_06_30 >
cp libr3.so /usr/lib/

then it runs fine:

_07_15__15_04_44 >
./r3-view-host-linux
**************************************************************************
** **
** REBOL 3.0 [Alpha Test] **
** **
 
Did you run the command I mentioned, including the LD_LIBRARY_PATH=. prefix?
 
Still, demo does not work, either, but ...
@earl ... I understand why...
 
$ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=. ./r3-core-host-linux -q --do 'print "hello"'
hello
$
 
3:53 PM
Rebol Montreal Working Group now back at Coginov offices for a final day of efforts...
 
4:25 PM
@pierre Graham made the comment that the GUI isn't here for linux yet (I don't know), but the demo is a GUI demo, so that may be why it doesn't work
 
@pekr Yay!
@pierre @onetom @moliad @HostileFork @rgchris
@pierre And the red chairs...
 
@pierre Maybe I took that out of context though and he was talking about something else
 
4:43 PM
@kealist @pierre Right. The GUI only works for Win32 & Android, at the moment. For "demo" to work, the GUI needs to work. Therefore, "demo" only works on Win32 & Android.
 
5:19 PM
Another productive day so far!!!
(you can make your own mind whether this reflects zero or one-based)
 
@earl thank you for the clarification
Are the other initial options on the console going to be changed anytime soon so that all of them function ideally, such as upgrade showing Saphirion's latest version instead of R3 current version: 2.100.111.3.1 It was released on: 20-Feb-2011/16:24:53.125 or removing chat or modifying changes to point to github?
Should that be submitted as a curecode issue?
at least to stop scaring new users when most things on the initial prompt are incorrect
 
5:37 PM
@MarekOsvald Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 36 so chat away!
 
Don't see any open tickets for chat or upgrade
 
6:47 PM
@kealist Yes, the startup banner should be improved & made more accurate.
Should add a "build id" (and possible a "vendor") field, to more accurately identify the current version.
Proper implementation of UPGRADE is then a build-specific thing. Same for CHANGES. The DEMO suggestion should most certainly be removed from non-GUI builds.
 
posted on July 16, 2013 by kealist

[Bug] From attempting to use it and create accounts/login and failing it seems that the developer 'chat' command in R3 is not functioning properly, is not being used and should be removed. Thoughts?

 
Not sure what the big idea about the future function of chat was, but I'm trying to rock the boat a little
 
@kealist Having a chat client built in is an interesting idea. But just as I advise against doing something like trying to reimplement AltME in Rebol 3, or using a Rebol-based bug database, I'd say that it doesn't make sense to invest in such codebase at this time.
I would agree that in general, the idea of making chat into something that would impress anyone would be work that would be distracting. It's better to focus on things that have a good solid shot at being impressive in the near term when compared to competition. e.g. core features
I don't think most people are looking to re-create the 300 baud BBS experience these days
 
7:13 PM
posted on July 16, 2013 by kealist

[Comment] Or have it send to a URL to StackOverflow chat

posted on July 16, 2013 by kealist

[Bug] Currently, the Win32-Core Build (and I assume all others) has the GUI built into the console start up banner. This needs to removed. If not, a core demo should be created to impress the users!

 
@HostileFork I would agree that resources should be spent on other areas first.
I do like the QA format/archiving of issues/searchability on SO, but I do feel the chat is a little one-dimensional compared to using IOS and Altme for years
I do think Altme makes things a bit unreachable, yes there are web-archives of some of the channels, but new users aren't as likely to want to use something like that
I was looking at @BrianH and @pekr conversation a little. Altme is actually great at archiving things (changing the message limits from default to an arbitrarily high value (9999 per chat) will let you see things before, but they should still be there and it searches.
In SO's QA, there are limits to how broad of questions a person can ask at risk of getting closed.
Which isn't necessarily a bad thing
But I'd like to see most efforts put towards documenting Rebol 3 because right now, it's maddening to try to find what I'm looking for.
I'd like to see some new issues of REBOL Forces as well
Or even old issues (online)
 
7:59 PM
@kealist No, that is what I figured.
 
@GreggIrwin yeah, sorry, it was another development discussion that happened in AltME when it shouldn't have. I'll look through my AltME history this evening and see if I can track down where we had the SPLIT discussion.
 
@earl Ok. I think that I have been confused by a few announcements, and I thought/dreamt that the GUI was there, ready for other OSs. I dreamt. Am waking up now.
 
@pierre - still a good thing, that it will be worked on ....
 
Yes, the chat (cat) is an interesting idea. But it should work: I tried hard, a few dozen times: no success. Maybe my @free.fr address does not please someone?? I have no idea...
Another idea would be to get the built-in chat to come and chat in this room, for instance. We could make up a fake person, like rebol_chat_user or something (with a decent reputation...), so that any person hacking its Rebol 3 would pop up here, with this nickname. Now, of course, the person should always sign with his "real" nickname, to make things not too confused.
@pekr Yes!
What does "rocking a boat" mean? (sorry again for my poor understanding of English language...)
"Secouer le cocotier?" => "shake the coconut tree"?
 
R3 chat ... that just reminds me - has anyone asked Carl about R3 Chat source release, or the IOS one? :-)
 
8:20 PM
this makes me think of another question that I wanted to ask during the ReCode (and I missed...): what about the Rebol plugin? This was an AWESOME tool for quickly convincing the World to speak Rebol.
Too bad it was only working on Internet Explorer browsers (at least the last time I checked it (maybe 8 years ago?))...
Getting this project back on tracks would be great, I think. Although probably not so easy: sorting out cross-platform VID first, then getting the GUI through some http://, aiming at myriads of Internet browsers running on various OSs...
 
@pekr , I think Max answered earlier, but the answer is that for now, the chat source won't be made available. Later, depending on some factors Carl didn't go into, it could be (maybe in a modified form).
Poor Carl - I think he had to answer that question to three or more people, myself included.
 
8:40 PM
@pierre Me Too!
 
@fergus ;) I found it difficult, at the start, to depythonize my mind. And it has been quite difficult to figure out what had happened in the Rebol world, during these years... I am re-reading great books from Olivier Auverlot.
@fergus Which OS are you working with?
 
8:57 PM
@pierre the Rebol plugin was never secure, and the reasons were inherent in Rebol 2 itself. This was part of the reason for the development of Rebol 3 in the first place. Now, the industry as a whole is moving away from browser plugins. Only a few plugins barely survive, notably Flash and Unity since they are used for web video and facebook games, respectively.
 
Just proposed by @moliad, unused syntactic space: 16/FFFF could be hexadecimal... 8/45712 could be octal, 2/10010101 binary etc.
Looks like division which could be confusing, but Rebol has lots of confusing things in it
 
@BrianH Hm, ok. So the idea of VID generating HTML5, for instance, would be more 'fashionable'?
@HostileFork Looks bizarre...
@HostileFork Yes, definitely. Actually, I was reading it as a refinement of an integer... So I can see my mind is rebolised, somehow...
@HostileFork What about using a backslash, instead of the refinement or division slash? Nah. 16\FFFF looks even more stupid.
 
Oh I just wanted to post the cartoon, I don't know what the right answer is, but it would be helpful if we did enumerate some of the unused lexical space and whether it is unused for a reason or not
 
@HostileFork Is this a target, to colonize absolutely all syntactic space? A bit hegemonic, isn't it?
@HostileFork Maybe no more confusion should be added, at this stage, no?... ;-)
 
9:15 PM
@pierre We have a few things we need, like hexadecimal (or more) literals for integers, and a literal notation for maps. One need not colonize everything one defines...
 
@HostileFork I can't remember how hexadecimals were expressed, in Rebol 2 (I never got a chance to use these).
#0000000F for 15
>> to-hex 15
== #0000000F
sorry, that was in OLD rebol (2)
now in REAL rebol (3):
>> to-hex 15
== #000000000000000F
but I'm confused...
>> to-hex 45
== #000000000000002D

>> type? #000000000000002D
== issue!
 
Red wants to keep issues separate. Also, issues are word types now, so they consume symbol space.
 
hmmm.
 
FFFF/16 might read better ... we could also use letters like FFAA00/h and 0010010/b
 
Here is a little "help.rebol.org vision" diagram of the kind of thing that might come up when you go to that URL
Initially we were thinking something more whimsical with this character we came up with for help, but I think making rebol.org all serious and letting him be the mascot for the community at rebol.net is a better idea.
 
9:30 PM
@HostileFork Balloon color?... ;-) Slider color is fine, though.
Talking about help: this is something I appreciate in some man pages, is to have some examples. It would be neat to add such examples to Rebol "help pages". Shouldn't be too hard, I guess.
 
These are sketches. Anyone is invited to provide their own vision. @rgchris was going to start tackling how this might be made in a webpage and how we can get urls like http://help.rebol.org/bind? to work, as well as forward all the existing rebol.org URLs to new homes archive.rebol.net
Either way, the website that powers help.rebol.org will be open source and people can try new and interesting things. Like live code samples in the example where you can run the code or edit it and run to see the effect. It doesn't matter, just that we need to start somewhere in setting up a process by which people can submit improvements and the site doesn't stay stagnant.
 
@HostileFork Also, I think help.rebol.org should be ready for internationalization right from the start, in order to avoid the necessity to duplicate documentation in various languages on various websites scattered worldwide, to address other people not necessarily speaking English.
For example, some French-speaking websites dedicated to Rebol recently just died, and it is a pity.
 
@pierre We have discussed it, and that the easiest way is probably a sub-subdomain. e.g. http://fr.help.rebol.org/bind? vs. http://help.rebol.org/fr/bind? I don't know.
 
What about simply a choice at every page with EN | D | FR | I | etc. like on most webpages?
It automatically switches to your language, if the current page is translated.
See what I mean? I'll try to find an example...
 
yeah but however it looks on the page, it needs a url. we where thinking of adding subdomains for any language.
we're trying to prevent/having/long/urls/with/lots/of/paths/in/them.html
 
9:52 PM
Internationalization (i18n) should be done with some thought. i.e. using some kind of approach where it's possible to edit the text resources in parallel so that things don't get out of sync in the various languages. This would be much easier to maintain in the long run, as opposed to some ad hoc creation of independently managed pages for the same help topic.
There are various libraries/frameworks for doing this if using HTML/JS, but if our pages will be Rebol/Red based, this "resource string" approach should be kept in mind.
 
@Adrian Exactly.
Not necessarily: when the page asks your favorite language to your browser, it then displays the right page automatically.
(still trying to find an example...)
There:
http://www.debian.org/
=> on my computer, it appears in French. It may display in German, or catalan, or bask, etc. according to user's preference.
And nothing pollutes the URL.
Another example, more visual: http://www.qgis.org/
The flags on the upper right let you choose a different language than your preferred, if you wish so.
 
The only problem with listing all languages (or flags) is that I'm hoping there will be so many to choose from that simply displaying them all will not be the best wrt UX.
I guess that's a problem that will be good to have.
 
Will look into Accepts-Language in this case. Could be a good way to go.
 
@Adrian "wrt UX" => ?
 
with respect to user experience...
 
10:02 PM
Thanks... (I hate acronyms!...)
(except R.E.B.O.L. and R.E.D....)
 
Well, Dr. Rebmu has convinced me shrtr s btr.
 
I once wrote a website in 3 different languages. Not a lot.
My sophisticate framework was plain HTML edited with vim.
A nightmare. ( => it wasn't vim's fault!)
Some time after, I did something using some kind of CMS (forgot which one) which was designed for i18n from the start: it was just a pleasure.
 
@Adrian Hi man, so you caught your train on time? :-)
 
@Adrian I didn't have a chance to listen to him. I could only guess 1/4th of his posts...
 
hey @DocKimbel - Yeah, that was the closest I've ever come to missing a trip. I ran all the way, was sweating buckets, got somewhat lost around the station coming up from the underground and got on the train with about a minute before it started moving.
But don't regret at all taking my time :-)
 
10:09 PM
@Adrian Glad you made it in time. :-) Too bad you couldn't stay a day more. You missed a beer party in my hotel room last night.
 
Yeah, would've been nice to be there some more. Well, hopefully the opportunity to get together again won't be so far away.
You're at the airport now?
 
@Adrian Not yet, still at Coginov with all the others. Will go in less than an hour.
 
@Adrian I'm planning on heading back through Toronto, I don't know if I'm going anywhere else on my way back. I'm picking my stuff up in Chicago on the 4th I think, so just have to kill time.
Going to get an actual room for a while, or couchsurf, or something... too hot to spend the day in the car! :-)
 
@HostileFork, ping me when you're here, then.
I'm off for a month - leaving on the 24th though.
 
I'm leaving tonight or tomorrow
 
10:15 PM
You didn't answer re. the C++ thing - should I call the guy?
 
@Adrian I'll have time. I like talking about C++ either way. :-) I guess it depends, I did definitely feel like when I crossed from the rest areas and such on the road passing via Chicago that it seemed like things got better/cleaner once I crossed into Canada. Things seemed better. I just don't feel any real bond with Montreal, which is part of why I'm not extending the tourism here... but maybe Toronto is interesting. So I'd give it a chance.
Often free for little contract things, regardless of location.
 
k, I'll try to get in touch with him.
 
Cool
 
10:59 PM
@HostileFork I prefer the MS paperclip!
ie. we don't want this!
 
@pierre if you had to generate HTML5 I would much rather do so from a dialect like VID than by writing it directly. But that doesn't mean that you should be generating HTML5 in the first place - depends on what you want to do.
 
@BrianH This was about the Rebol plug-in, which was a very useful way to show Rebol to the ignorant world: plug-ins are not fashionable any more, so generating HTML5 was an idea.
But I think it may be much more complicated than running "simple" VID through the plug-in.
If we want to show neat things, simply programmed, through a browser so that anyone can access it, it must be very reactive, flashy, etc. So "simple" HTML may not do the trick. I guess.
 
@pierre oh, sorry, I thought it was in response to my earlier message that my job is currently to create HTML5, and that is the main reason I don't use the R3 GUI. Yes, if your target is the browser, HTML5 is the way to go.
 
@BrianH I didn't see this post you mention. permalink?
 
11:14 PM
yesterday, by BrianH
@pekr so I gather. I'm not using it yet, mostly because I don't make GUI apps. Web developer at the day job though, GUI running in a browser, HTML5, all of that stuff you mentioned.
I was in the middle of a flame war with @pekr, as usual :)
I rarely make GUI apps with Rebol. This has always been the case. No offence intended to Rebol GUIs, I just don't make GUIs that often at all, don't need them. GUI frameworks haven't been that useful to me since the '90s.
 
@BrianH It almost sounds shadwolfy sometimes... ;-)
@BrianH Actually, I don't do GUI very often. Just when I finish something, and I just wand to get a couple of buttons and field areas so that I can enter data, choose a file, etc.
But the thing is, Rebol/View is just so amazing, due to the magic of VID, which is itself directly linked to the magic of ... Rebol itself.
@BrianH Are you generating HTML5 using Rebol?
 

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