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03:00 - 13:0013:00 - 22:00

3:04 AM
it happens. I probably would have walked away too if I was doing WPF for fun
but it's my job, so I couldn't do anything about it really
there is a learning curve, but once you learn it, it's glorious
 
Well at least at a job I could have someone teach me and I'd learn.
 
well i had to learn all by myself at my job
 
I just would like an easy (if possible) way of updating a UI.
 
and i owe it to this chat room for teaching me everything i now know
 
Seems like something important to know how to do.
 
3:06 AM
always is :)
you update the UI through a view model
 
For example, making a windows form game. There is a shop, when I buy something it would be neat to have the money on display updated.
Like if I can learn something simple I can branch off from that, I suppose.
 
one way i learned is reading a lot of tutorials
then learning more about controls
 
Do you know a good one that I could work along side with?
 
so you would have a Person who has a Money property. You would have a Store that has a List of Items
 
Yeah the money property is in the game class.
 
3:11 AM
when a person buys the item, it would remove it from the list and subtract the total from the persons total money
 
Yep
Except when I hit buy, nothing happens.
I mean it subtracts the money.
but it doesn't reflect it in the UI
 
you have to call NotifyPropertyChanged("Money");
(aka implement INotifyPropertyChanged on your view model)
 
and the view model would just be the UIs code behind?
 
nope, your view model is another class you create, it would expose members of your models
 
So it would expose the money property from the game class?
 
3:17 AM
public class GameViewModel
{
    Person _person;
    Store _store;
    public GameViewModel(Person p, Store s)
    {
        _person = p;
        _store = s;
    }

    public decimal MoneyTotal
    {
        get { return _person.Money; }
        set
        {
             _person.Money = value;
             NotifyPropertyChanged("MoneyTotal");
        }
    }
    .......
}
then your UI (xaml), you would just have <TextBlock Text="{Binding MoneyTotal}" />
 
Well how does the UI know what's up then? How does it go like "Oh hey money has changed, lemme show you how much you got now, breh"
That's how my UI talks btw
 
you set the DataContext of the UI to your view model
 
Then what's the point of having money be in the game class? Why not just put everything in the view model?
 
it all depends on what you're trying to do
that's why its important to separate appropriately
in this instance, your Game is a View Model, not a Model
you could say Game is a Model, and in the Game model you could have a list of Players
or People
 
Well it's just a single player game.
Not trying to get too crazy here.
 
3:24 AM
right, it all depends what you want to do. it's part of a learning process.
 
ok the model is what again?
 
the model is your "business object." basically its going to be stripped raw of anything but basic types
So your models might be: Game, Player, Shop, BaseProduct
Game has a Player and a Shop
a Player would have List<BaseProduct> Inventory and a property Money
a Shop would have a List<BaseProduct> Products
a BaseProduct might be a base class which has a property called Cost
 
I tried using NOtifyPropertyChanged and it says it's not available in the current context
I have it inheriting InotifyPropertyChanged
 
did you implement PropertyChanged?
 
I'm not sure what you mean by that?
 
3:31 AM
do you know what an interface is?
 
Yeah.
Kind of.
I know of them, but not like everything about them.
 
INotifyPropertyChanged has an event that you need to implement
if your class inherits an interface, it needs the same properties/methods/members as the interface
 
Oh that's new to me.
 
Why do I have to do it, why isn't it already done?
 
3:34 AM
because it also you to implement it any way you want.
it's not a abstract/virtual class, its an interface. you can implement the interface any way you want, you just have to make sure it follows the interface
 
Hrm.
In the example it's implemented as a string, I'm assuming I can use whatever I'd like, yes?
 
yes, it can be anything you want, and you can notify the ui that any property is changed at anytime
you could have
 
Hrm, ok slowly kind of getting it.
but I have to go to bed, to wake up for work sadly.
Thanks for everything <3
 
public string MyAutoProp { get; private set; }
public decimal Money
{
    get { return _money; }
    set
    {
        _money = value;
        NotifyPropertyChanged("Money");
        NotifyPropertyChanged("MyAutoProp");
    }
}
 
Why the string?
 
3:38 AM
when you call notifypropchanged, the UI will say, "oh, hey homie, I heard MyAutoProp has a new value, let me get at it" and the getter of MyAutoProp will get called
just an example
 
but why have both money and autoprop?
 
public string FullName { get { return FirstName + " " + LastName; } }
public string FirstName
{
    get { return _firstName; }
    set
    {
        _firstName = value;
        NotifyPropertyChanged("FirstName");
        NotifyPropertyChanged("FullName");
    }
}
public string LastName
{
    get { return _lastName; }
    set
    {
        _lastName = value;
        NotifyPropertyChanged("LastName");
        NotifyPropertyChanged("FullName");
    }
}
 
ah ok.
Well I better sleep, thanks again!
 
hang around in here if you ever need help
whats your time zone?
 
EST
 
3:44 AM
okay. I'm CST, I'm usually on until about 630-7EST
a lot of people are on during our working hours, because they are from EU, Asia, maybe Africa. so the room is most active ~10-11ET. just so you know
 
4:11 AM
pretty good example of MVVM. It's a semi-intense, which is nice
 
 
2 hours later…
6:13 AM
Morning
 
Hi.
 
@Denver hey
how are you?
 
Cool, cool, learning stuff.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:45 AM
@Billdr Thx huni xoxoxoxox
@NETscape "oh, hey homie" love it
Aaaaand morning WPF
 
8:13 AM
Afternoon, @Sean.
 
Evening, @Denver.
 
Not really an evening.
 
Not really an afternoon
 
Morning-afternoon.
 
I think I'm still dreaming
 
8:16 AM
No.
You are not.
 
Awwwwwwwww
 
Yeah, sorry.
 
Hi :)
 
Hello!
Is there any connection between hello and hell words?
Something like hell no could end up with something like hello.
It is not the case, of course, but an example.
 
@Denver 'fraid not. "Hello" came from "Hallo", which came from "holla".
 
8:21 AM
English version is hullo?
Dafuq?
 
Apparently.
That quote is from 1926, mind you.
 
So hello came over hullo.
 
I was looking on english.se
 
@Sean Hullo, sup?
I am going to use hullo now when speaking with englishmen.
 
@Denver Why yes, my good fellow, I would love a sup of your tea!
 
8:24 AM
I may assure you that English tea is better than Russian.
Because there is no Russian tea.
 
Damnit.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:49 AM
yesterday I couldn't talk to anyone to save my soul. 125 messages since last night. Yesh.
 
I may try to save your soul.
Confess to me.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan I'm not sure this is related to the Spanish greeting. Holla comes from French for "Ho There," which was a common greeting in English if hollywood is to be believed.
No thanks. Russian orthodox is the second scariest flavor of Christian. I don't want to get messed up with that juju.
To the office! see you on the other side of the commute.
 
Or will you.. DUN DUN DUNNNNN
 
Wow. I add microsoft authentication for you and you wish me death in a fiery car crash.
I see how it is. Well, braving Sean's curse now.
 
10:09 AM
Morning
125 messages? 400+ here since last time i read
 
Hello, Maverik.
 
Hey denver
 
@Billdr And a very well done to you, it works!
Morning Mav
 
10:29 AM
I made it.
Barely.
 
Just keeping you on your toes
It builds character
Toughens you up
More people should get cursed
 
I didn't have caffeine since like 2:30pm yesterday. The center of my brain is exploding over and over.
I may be suffering from withdraw.
 
Morning sean
 
Mav's here!
 
@Billdr Like a sick bass beat. I know the feeling
 
10:36 AM
It sounds like this in my head
 
OUCH
My head.
That feedback. Sounds just like tinnnnnnnitititititus
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
 
More music should be played through blown out amps. Just not directly in my brain stem.
 
and mav happens to be in office so hopefully will be less less attentive today!
 
You going to play D&D with us, Mr. Mav?
 
nah, i'm not creative enough to bury myself underground :(
 
10:42 AM
That's okay. I'm creative enough to kill you for doing it.
First time I'd wait for the rest of the team to do something about it, failing that you'd wake the sand worm from dune.
 
i wouldn't bury myself in first place
i dont have a platemail
i'm a clothie remember?
 
Sure, why not
 
"Tell us why your company is a great place to work as a developer" -- I'm at a loss to find words
 
Are you filling out the Joel test thingy?
 
why do you work in the company you work and stick with it?
nah, this is company page
I can barely pull 6 on Joel
 
10:47 AM
"I get to break other people's code, and deadlines for my projects are flexible."
 
thats a grand improvement of 4 since ijoined the company but i can only do so much by myself
aa I like the flexibility point - we do generally have that
but will you trade that for an environment where people think talking in a shouting volume is the only way to talk? (they don't even realise they're donig that shit)
 
I've never worked anywhere quiet
 
well, it may not be shouting from many peoples point of view but i can't think and i can barely drown them out in my music
 
That's shouting, or poo headphones
 
I wouldn't know. I'm headphones all day every day.
 
10:50 AM
yea i do that too, but i dont always put them on becuase i want to
 
The loud indian guy quit. The quiet indian guy doesn't talk much to hide his stutter.
 
do you only have indians over there?
 
Not only. There's a lot of Indians in American IT.
 
our quiet indian left - our loud arabic guy doesn't work in office much (hes a field guy)
 
I think the ones who can't be doctors end up as comp scientists of some flavor.
 
10:51 AM
its the white guys on phone that drive me nuts
we really should get some orientals
 
We had a black guy from someplace in Africa that speaks french. He was kinda neat.
 
it feels like we're discriminating against orientals... there must be some decent it guy out there who'd wanna join us?
 
I automated his job away. :/
 
oh we do have one last black guy left -- i only notice him when he laughs and he laughs a lot
 
lol
 
10:53 AM
hes got a unique laughter that demands attention
hmm the other black guy was in accounts thats been replaced by another indian now that i think about it
and i can tell you when hes on phone because i can hear him all the way on the other side of office
 
I should put my headphones on more
 
still all of this makes it sound like we're in a big office - we're not
 
How big is it, roughly?
 
so this manager is talking to somebody right now from other side of the office - i can't make out the words exactly, but i can tell you hes talking (and he's talking in a pretty low voice)
ask rudi next week
 
Rudi will be gracing us with his presence next week?
 
10:55 AM
Rudi's going to visit you?
 
Will he bring Stefan with?
 
other sounds i can hear: the air extractor and the sound of a 10 gigabit switch running right next to me
thankfully its in low fan setting, but when its fans decide to spin up properly, there's no escape
 
Heh, in my office it is not that noisy. Just people discussing stuff from time to time. Actually I am getting more distracted when noone talks and the only sound is the sound of keyboards. Headphones, to the rescue!
 
My cube and the server room are on the same AC circuit.
 
Gotta love switch fan noises
 
10:56 AM
I dunno sean, i heard rudi might visit for his project
but then i've heard that a few times already
well yea i want absolute quiet!
silent keyboards
anything over -30 db is bad
 
A guy behind me is chatting sometimes - it is just infinite stream of keyboard sound.
 
I'm willing to to budge to -25db .. but thats about it
you mean like what i do here everyday?
 
Keyboard sounds rock
 
No, he chats more. And he can't type quitely.
 
I would rather have an infinite stream of keyboard sounds than people sounds
 
10:58 AM
He is like willing to destroy his keyboard.
The Hobbit film theme - I love Pandora
:(
 
http://
 
hmm pandora.. the thing that's been discriminating agaisnt rest of the world for better part of a decade now?
yea that thing is so awesome
 
That feeling when you fail message formatting.
What do you mean, Mav?
 
Got to love intellectual property law.
 
:18545835 I use Hola for that.
 
11:04 AM
Also, hawhaw, you don't live in the United States.
 
Hola works perfectly.
 
Keep plugging that site
Do you have shares?
 
How does Hola work?
Why is it better than any other vpn service?
 
Because it works for me and installs within 3 seconds.
@Sean I just have gratitude, cuz it allows me to listen music on Pandora site.
 
Oh it's free
 
11:10 AM
And Pandora itself has analogues, like Grooveshark and stuff, but I found Pandora's algorithm of fidning music the greatest. You chosee a genre or an artist to listen to and it finds similar music for you. You may Like or Dislike a composition. After few Likes and Dislikes it starts playing just the music you like.
 
morning all
 
And yea, both Hola and Pandora are free.
Hi, DPP.
However, Pandora will play an advertisement sometimes if you do not pay 4 bucks month.
 
YAMSS
 
Yea I did start from Pandora when it was first of its kind
then i found Last.FM and pandora went US only
and then Last.FM finally merged into spotify shit
so now it all gone to hell
 
11:14 AM
Saw that from his twitter feed last night, pretty awesome
 
yeah it is.
I need to get to space.
 
Okay! I am going to use DockPanel. And noone will stop me.
 
Hey @Denver
 
Hi.
 
I stopped you.
BOOM!
 
11:23 AM
No?
I am already using it.
 
Damnit.
 
Right now I have an application running with nothing but an empty DockPanel in a Window.
And it works.
 
Desktop people, where do you put your connection strings?
I've asked this before. I got it working somehow...
 
Am I right that it is not necessary to use Path= in {Binding Path=MyProperty}?
 
yea
Path is the default property of binding
 
11:51 AM
Heyyyyooo
Imagine 6 school girls next to your cube that gossip all day. Plus I gave the same air ventilation issue as you Mav. I'll just sit and stare at my screen sometimes.... Or come in and look and chat
 
notepadconf.com @NETscape you have a reason to come visit now.
 
@NETscape Hey. I think poinltess staring at the screen is one of duties of programmers.
 
12:06 PM
I am currently examining MVVM article by Josh Smith. There is a TabControl in his application with ItemsSource="{Binding}". What does it mean and how can TabControl get filled with tabs with such a binding?
 
@Billdr app.config
 
ty
 
Do you need to know exactly where? Are you using it with EF?
 
Probably someone has read the article already and knows what I am talking about. Or may be there is someone who wants to help me with. In latter case you can download his project - MVVM tutorial project
 
I am using EF. I'm tackling a different issue atm.
 
12:14 PM
@Denver {Binding} is simply shorthand for {Binding Path=.}, meaning that the ItemsSource is bound to the current DataContext.
 
Ow. Thanks. ^_^
I knew it is something simple.
 
Is that not entirely unnecessary?
Don't controls automatically inherit data contexts?
 
Sean: If you don't specify any binding, ItemsSource will simply not have any value.
 
That totally makes sense, good point Batman
 
The DataContext is inherited, yes, but the value of ItemsSource, or any other property, isn't automatically bound to anything until it's, well, bound to something.
 
12:16 PM
That's what you get for engaging half of your brain
 
Now to find out the DataContext of TabControl. Onwards!
 
@Denver Unless specified explicitly, it's inherited from further up the visual tree, as Sean said, up to the main window.
Usually it's the ViewModel attached to the View.
 
Yeah, yeah. I know that.
 
Oh, ok. Sorry. :)
 
Nah, no problem.
It is just that in this application DataContext is set in App.xaml.cs in overriden OnStartup method.
Seems so.
 
12:18 PM
That happens, yes.
Use Snoop. Snoop is good. Snoop saves you hours. Snoop is your friend.
 
Snoop is awesome.
 
Cuz his MainViewModel class constructor has an argument, which can't be passed from View.
 
what should you use when you're trying to talk to a java oriented webservice that insists on using Microsoft WSE 3.0 in this day and age?
 
May 14 '13 at 16:01, by Johan Larsson
Snoop, the wpf coders best friend, lets you inspect events and the trees
 
I will use Caliburn.Micro or Snoop or something else. For now I want to understand the logic on my own.
I mean, without shortcuts.
Thanks tho. :)
 
12:19 PM
Snoop & calibrun.micro are VERY different things
 
@Denver Snoop is just an inspection tool, like Quick View in the debugger.
 
Snoop is an inspector. You attach it to your process and it extrapolates all the visual/logical trees and datacontexts, etc
 
to say snoop is a shortcut and thus should be avoided is like saying visual studio is a shortcut and you should learn through notepad
 
Lets you inspect a running WPF app and see its properties in runtime, like binding errors and what Data Context is linked to a control.
 
Oh, I see. I thought it is another Fody-Caliburn-like thingy.
 
12:21 PM
Fody & Caliburn are again very different things
 
I know, I know.
But they do things for you.
 
this knowledge level is going to get you killed someday!
 
@Maverik I think you can still add pre-WCF Web References to your projects.
 
lets see what happens if i just mix this h2so4 concentrate
 
Maverik, you got what I meant. :p
 
12:21 PM
hmm... kaboom... i probably shouldn't have done that .. but i knew that.. i just wanted to be sure!
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan nah you can't
 
@Maverik Just checked in VS2013, sure you can.
 
this particular shiz is using digital signatures that aren't supported in standard soap
 
in order to make it work, i need to understand what the successful soap request looks like and then do message manipulation to get it to work via wcf
but after three weeks, I've yet to get it to even make a request that works
 
They don't have a WSDL or anything like that?
 
12:24 PM
one of the sadest thigns about all this is that this "sample" was written in 2013
 
Morns
 
Install VS2005. Install the WSE 3.0 tools. Build the solution. Reference it from VS2013.
 
when WSE 3 was already obsolete for years
 
Morning André
 
morning andre
 
12:26 PM
Hello, Andre.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan i've been mustering up strength to actually do taht
install xp, install vs2005, install wse 3
 
FUCKYEAH, GO XP!!
 
wse 3 insists on .net 2.0
 
@Maverik Why XP?
 
because its from the right era?
and its quick to install @ 150mb cd
 
12:27 PM
My last project had some of the code in C++ on VS2005. Worked fine on Win7. :)
 
C++ ... i have no doubt
 
Well, "fine" is a bit of a stretch.
 
I've had more success porting Turbo C code to visual C
then i've had with this 2013 sample
 
I've heard bad things about Borland (that is who make Turbo C, yeah?)
 
just in case anybody is interested in seeing wth am I doing: pubs.vmware.com/vsphere-55/…
@Sean no turbo c was before borland c
borland was a big improvement
 
12:29 PM
oof, I already know this new client (company, not application) I have to implement for is going to be a problem
 
pretty sure the company didn't make turbo
 
They are using Go Daddy certificates
 
is that all the problem? :)
 
There's no reason VS2005 won't work on Win7/8. Just make sure .NET 3.5 is installed, which includes the 2.0 runtime.
 
mate i know 3.5 includes everything all the way back to 2.0
 
12:30 PM
@Maverik I just looked on wiki, apparently Borland wrote Turbo Pascal and Turbo C
 
but trust me, i've done this - the tool insists on .net 2.0 being installed
even with 3.5 sp1 installation
 
I have found a high correlation between go daddy certs and incompetent development
 
the one thing that i can figure readily is there's a registry key that used to be there in .net 2.0 but isn't there anymore
i've even hacked my way through to make it work with 4.0 (the ms tool is a .net app so you can decompile and see) ... and it created the dll finally
 
@Maverik Lovely.
 
but now something funky is happening in the soap message
 
12:32 PM
Have you descended to the point of dumping the SOAP packet in its entirety and searching for changes?
 
and its throwing validation error - the wsdl returned and code generated isn't working
well that's the level i have to drop to indeed
but i can't do that until i have a packet to work with!
 
Just curious, have any of you worked with SciChart ?
 
well talking helps!
i wonder if i can fiddle my way through vsphere client
 
@furier No, sorry
@Maverik hurr hurr, you said fiddle
 
No need to be sorry Sean :)
 
12:34 PM
@Maverik If you connect to it via WCF Service References, you can maybe get it to dump the SOAP message before it chokes on it?
 
You got your account back!
 
I did?
 
oh no, I mixed it up with Stefan
sorry :P
 
No need to be sorry ;]
 
haha
 
12:35 PM
Yeeeeaaaah 8)
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan it'll get stuck because there wont be any security token and thus useless for me to check the dump
but thanks for the ideas
oh, i shuold mention, i'm dealing with federated webservice
so umm yea i'm stuck at federation right now - somehow need to authenticate to STS and get the token and it refuses to yield
 
@Maverik Is there any other application which currently accesses this service? Anywhere? In a different system? Non-.NET? Anything?
 
the vSphere client should do it
 
Okay, I am Snoop fan now.
 
No you're not allowed
You have to learn the hard way. Uninstall it right now
 
12:40 PM
I do learn the hard way using Snoop.
Can I Snoop the Snoop?
Guess it is not WPF app.
 
I'm not sure
 
Gonna snoop my radar app for the lulz.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan yea the official vsphere client i think does it
but i can't get a proxy to jam itself in middle
gonna have to resort to something lower level like wireshark.. (how i hate dropping to this level!)
 
@Maverik Hmpf, then. Hmpf indeed.
 
12:58 PM
Hey guys, since the chat room is idle, if any of you are geeks who are really interested in science as a whole, check out this new Area51 proposal Scientific Imagination, and how it is supposed to be like.
 
03:00 - 13:0013:00 - 22:00

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