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Tom
1:29 AM
@Raynos do you never sleep?
 
@Tom NEVER
I'm aligning myself with node knockout
I dont know why :\
 
Oh crap, that reminds me. I need to sleep
 
Tom
@Raynos heh what are you going to make?
 
Haven't slept in about 40 hours
 
Tom
@Zirak seriously?
 
1:32 AM
@tom this chat room
@Zirak ...
 
Tom
You should calm down on the drugs mate
 
Believe it or not, I'm clean now.
 
Tom
@Raynos this chat room already exists =)
 
Free Bird solo isn't gonna tab itself. Already tabbed Voodoo Child and most of Led Zeppelin III
 
@Tom the open source version
 
Tom
1:35 AM
@Raynos sweet
 
Meh, 2 more hours ain't gonna hurt
 
Tom
@Raynos is it just as good?
 
@Tom it will be
 
One thing I miss in this chat is private messages. You can create your own channel, but I wish you could do #username or something and only he'd be able to see the message
 
we plan on making this exact chat server, as close as possible, with more features (because if you want one, you can add it, and I know some folks that want to...)
how would that work @Zirak?
 
1:41 AM
Like, I'd write #jcolebra Meep, and only you and I would see the message Meep, everyone else won't
There's gotta be a users-currently-in-room list, so it should be rather trivial
 
there is such a list
what about the transcript?
should we just hide those?
what if you want to have a full on conversation (like how PMs are in IRC?)
what would be different between that and a private chat room?
I'm not saying you're making no sense, I'm trying to understand the logical difference
also, would you like a /me that does like IRC and looks like this?
 
I dunno. Like I said, it's a private chat room, just super small and with no trouble of it.
 
jcolebrand kicks the door
 
Maybe it's a tradeoff between ease of use and the transcript
Well, how would the /me be different than **name** action?
 
so you want a popup over the other chatroom?
@Zirak shorthand
 
1:48 AM
No, no popup. It's like a regular message, just that only a selected few can see it.
So I'd write #jcolebrand #Raynos The hunter rapes sheep at night, and only you and Raynos could see it, probably with a different background or something
 
ok, well you figure out how that should work and show me on paper or a screenshot and figure out how it goes on the transcript (because if I'm getting the transcript and you send me a message, I wanna see it tomorrow) and we'll think about it on rev 2
 
The # was just the first thing that came to mind, could be anything
You're probably right an it's a stupid way of doing a private chat room
 
I don't mind good ideas, I just need to be shown how it's better than the current implementation, or I'm going to be selfish and want to keep what I already have.
I'm sort of a developer that way ;)
 
I wantz pizza. Gimme pizza for idea
 
it's gotta be a great idea ;)
 
1:57 AM
Hehe, jshint gave me this error: 'hasOwnProperty' is a really bad name.
 
Tom
2:11 AM
@Raynos your million node_module files make my browser almost crash when I look at teh commit in github
:(
 
Yes sir?
Stop looking at it >_,
It also crashes for me
 
Tom
2:26 AM
@Raynos heh. I hope I can publish a new version tonight with client-side support
I was almost done but now I am facing some bug
its 4.30AM though
 
@Tom new version of what?
Your code? :P
 
Tom
@Raynos the architecture ^^
 
Good luck
 
Tom
@Raynos thank you
 
@Matt McDonald and @everyone, tell me where I'm wrong: pastie.org/2431285
It's more than likely that I'm wrong...so correct me
 
2:51 AM
Noone? Does it mean that maybe...just maybe...I'm right? In a Math related thing? :D
 
it probably means people are doing stuff
 
Tom
@Raynos are you here?
 
It's a big day. My math ideas haven't been approved of since 6th grade.
 
@Tom yes
 
Tom
@Raynos does this not fire on every single request / route? github.com/Raynos/ExpressArchTest/blob/master/src/routines/…
 
2:54 AM
Yes/no
if it gets there
error handling middleware
are only handling if you next(err)
 
@Zirak your theorem is fundamentally flawed
 
Tom
@Raynos but how does it know this is error handling middleware?
 
also, there's a website that you could ask that on: math.stackexchange.com
 
@jcolebrandφ y Q_Q
It's not really a question...more of a "I think you're wrong, take THAT"
 
@Tom f.length === 4
It has 4 parameters
Where as middleware is f(req, res, next). Normal middleware has 3 parameters
 
2:56 AM
@Zirak what wasn't a question? You're wrong.
Go draw it out on paper.
I will in two seconds
 
Does anyone know if there's an event that's fired when you're focused on an <a> and press enter?
 
Tom
@Raynos alright thanks
 
...Besides keydown, etc.?
 
but for the thing you drew, B <-> H is a straight line
@sdleihssirhc what do you want to be fired?
 
@jcolebrandφ Of course, I drew it on paper beforehand
 
2:57 AM
I'm hooking some event listeners to some links...
 
then you know that you're missing at least two triangles in your area
so therefore what you wrote is inherently flawed
 
And I want the listeners to be fired onclick...
 
It isn't calculating the area.
 
But I'm also thinking about people who don't have a mouse.
What event should I listen for then?
 
Matt wanted to find the triangle's mid point, so he averaged the x and y values of every point. That sounded wrong to me so I checked.
 
2:58 AM
oh, sorry, I read that briefly at first and thought you were calculating areas
I saw that at the bottom that you were adding the values, not comparing to ==
that's what I get for stopping what I was doing before
 
Also, it's an isosceles, so B->H is a straight line
 
It's looking like all I can do is attach an onkeydown listener to the <a>, and then check for Enter.
Which makes me go ;_;
but alas
 
Made it an isosceles for easy calculation and lazyness
 
Wow flash crashed my pc
damn it
 
I'll try it with a right-angled triangle
Damn you, weird numbers...
Yeah, I have to use the square root of 10 to find out if it's right on a right-sided triangle. Next.
k, it doesn't work on a right-sided triangle :P
 
Tom
3:26 AM
@Raynos I discovered a mayor bug in after
 
@Tom yes?
 
Tom
@Raynos after(0, function() { }); never fires
 
hmm
No it does not
 
Tom
It obviously should fire immediately
 
Whether it should fire or not depends on your definition of 0
 
3:27 AM
@Raynos I think it was something about a === count, flipping it to >= count or something like that should work
 
What does it mean to execute the function 0 times?
 
Tom
@Raynos it should. For example the change you made to github.com/Raynos/ExpressArchTest/blob/master/src/bootstrap.js does not work if the given directory has 0 files
@Raynos no that is not what after means
after means after x times it should do Y
 
True
 
Tom
so after 0 times means that it does not need to wait at all
 
Il fix that up
 
Tom
3:28 AM
and it needs to call Y immediately
 
Tom
@Raynos nice thanks
 
0
Q: Are fancy Javascript controls ready for primetime?

Tom JonesI'm looking at all the cool controls like from Ext JS 4 and GWT, etc, but why don't I see more sites using these? They seem fairly performant.

 
Tom
@Raynos you also updating to npm?
 
@Tom fixed in 0.1.4
 
Tom
3:31 AM
@Raynos npm outdated isn't showing it yet
 
@Tom it says updated 1 minute ago for me
 
user1385191
@Zirak I just googled "as3 center triangle" and some formula in that vein popped up
 
user1385191
it worked for me, so I stuck with it
 
@MattMcDonald Well, it's probably incorrect
I think that's because there are several middle-points...depends on what you're looking for. So it might work in your case.
Besides, drawing ASCII geometry is fun.
 
Tom
@Raynos does npm look at my package.json versions when I do npm outdated ?
 
3:37 AM
Sorry?
 
Tom
after still isn't showing up
 
You have to update the version in package.json to 0.1.4
then $ npm link
 
Tom
@Raynos well how do I check if 0.1.4 exists?
I want npm to tell me what modules have been updated
 
Oh
npm link -v ?
 
Tom
why the link?
 
3:39 AM
Not -v
just rm node_modules -r
then npm link or npm install
 
user1385191
this weekend is going to be SQL overload
 
Tom
@Raynos I installed 1.0.4, afraid it still does not work with 0
 
._.
it's 0.1.4
 
Tom
@Raynos that's what I mean
 
Oh because your not executing it :P
fail fail fail \o/
Let me fix it again
 
Tom
3:42 AM
?
ah
 
user1385191
wow, foreign keys are crazy
 
user1385191
I definitely need to start working with them
 
Fixed in 0.1.5
I added a unit test to assert it works
 
Tom
@Raynos works now, thanks.
 
@Raynos <ocd> The else statement is meaningless </ocd>
 
user1385191
3:49 AM
btw, good luck with node knockout
 
user1385191
seems like a cool idea
 
@Zirak ¬_¬
Yes it is
 
Tom
Ok 6AM..
@Raynos I will publish it tomorrow
Going to sleep, nn
 
user1385191
why do you guys stay up so insanely late?
 
Tom
@MattMcDonald I was getting enthusiastic about my new architecture ^_^
 
user1385191
3:54 AM
anything past 1 AM hurts me
 
Tom
Aye, well I won't be up at 7AM tomorrow either
or well, in 1 hour..
 
Im synching up with node knockout
 
 
1 hour later…
5:18 AM
0
Q: What does GWT not provide that straight AJAX coding gives?

Tom JonesFor an experience core Java programmer with no AJAX and very little Javascript experience, the GWT is attractive. But, what will I be missing if I just use GWT?

 
 
3 hours later…
7:55 AM
0
Q: Using javascript to show a grey-scale version of an image on mouse-over. in firefox its possible?

Aravinth <!DOCTYPE html> <html> <head> <title> New Document </title> <script type="text/javascript"> window.onload = function () { var area = document.getElementById('area'); alert('area:'+area); ...

 
8:35 AM
@Feeds Why are JavaScript questions almost universally bad across the network?
 
Hi, I am having a weird problem. I was provided with a fiddle as solution. That piece of code is working fine on Chrome, Mozilla, but not in IE 8.0. Can anyone help please.
First time using chat
 
9:06 AM
What would happen if I write a jquery command for .click function on lets say a button and also wrote onclick inline function as well... ?
 
 
1 hour later…
10:11 AM
posted on August 26, 2011

This week’s normal news. I don’t link to any articles about Steve Jobs’s resignation; nothing will change in the short run for Apple, and therefore the mobile market will not change, either. The Android situation and webOS’s future remain the most important questions in mobility for now. Your donation for keeping this series up and running would be much appreciated.

 
10:54 AM
!!
 
@jAndy Unary boolean operator!!
 
my overall stackoverflow income just exceeded $40! I should make a living out of it
that is about... 0.0033 dollars / hour !
 
RT @jon_neal: A #js library that amps up localStorage http://t.co/kpwkDeU
 
11:16 AM
Not sure what the IE team's feeding their in operator, but it's sick! ~350 million operations per second compared to Chrome's ~13 million.
Works better as a tweet :-p
 
11:27 AM
rofl @AndyE, I just saw that in the tweet list
Function.prototype.call.call.call.call.call(console.log, console, "call?");
not exactly like that, but the .call.call stuff is a big lol :p
 
lol
 
11:59 AM
shit, haven't slept for over 50 hours...gnight
 
12:15 PM
@jAndy Haha, I just confused my console w/ the SO chat box trying to run this... Definitely in need of more sleep
 
Tom
@Raynos tell me you are sleeping
@jAndy I've been implementing that event based architecture, but stumbled upon an issue. Care to listen?
 
12:35 PM
@Tom: sure, just prepend that @jAndy to the important parts, I'll come back to you
 
Tom
great
 
Oh wait, it appears that IE optimizes the in operator by (seemingly) removing the expression if you're not using the result. Well, at least they're removing redundant code.
 
Tom
@jAndy, so bascically I've got the following objects:
1. A http server with routers that define routes: the order at which routes are defined is important. The earlier one is defined, the higher its priority.
2. Two modules that hook into the http server and define their routers. They have to: a) hook into server before ```server.listen``` is called and b) set it's router before the router sets it's default (normal) router

Now, the issue is that 1) these modules have to initialize and do a lot of async work before they can be hooked into the router. How do I make the server know when it ca
@jAndy I have published my entire work to Github here: github.com/tommedema/ExpressArchTest I can explain the way it works if you want. As you can see, I actually "solved" the above issues in there, and everything works. However I made it overly complex with "halt run" and "halt router setup" events etc.
@jAndy The mentioned modules that need to hook into server are browserify and csio as you can see here: github.com/tommedema/ExpressArchTest/tree/master/src/routines
 
1:04 PM
@Tom: I'll have a look into it later. However at first glance, it again sounds like all your problems might be solved by invoking promises/promise makers
 
Tom
@jAndy that'd be great, thanks
If someone does an @Tom when I am away, will get a notification when I come back online?
 
@Tom: stackoverflow will tell you, yes
thats why you can annoy people like @NickCraver
 
I love what SE has done for helping knowledge in some cases -- this website often has a blind-leading-the-blind, but sites like over here... english.stackexchange.com/questions/36653/what-is-a-toit/… that's awesome.
 
Tom
@Incognito I agree. Amazing how much people like the english language over there..
Ah great, so I can contact anyone through this chat. evil grin
Does steve jobs have an account? I was going to ask him something
 
@Tom Other sites too. I think there's a critical mass point where too many members for any specific domain of knowledge leads to a polluted community. The community is too accessible to people, and thus, effort to participate is minimal, leading to "yo dawg, u gotta use lik, inline styles n shiz, ya feel me?"
 
Tom
1:14 PM
@Incognito aye. What I like is that I can actually contribute by asking. Or well, judging by the amount of views my questions get and thus people who have learned something thanks to me asking ;)
This is why I have 3 golden badges and only 1k rep
 
Tom
1:26 PM
@jAndy I looked into promises and don't see how they can help here, since I need to keep it loosely coupled
so you cannot say like "run when A and B and C are done" because you don't know about A and B and C
 
1:40 PM
@Tom Contribute by asking eh? I asked this because I felt it was worthwhile knowledge to build... programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/103233/… it lead to a**holes like this who snear at anyone who asks questions, and me screaming in rage, reddit.com/r/programming/comments/jsu8m/why_is_dry_important
 
Tom
@Incognito that's just one guy who doesn't grasp the concept, judging by the amount of answers and viewers that question got it resulted in a very healthy and useful discussion
 
So @Tom I'm trying to write a presentation/tutorial/slideshow targeted for JS devs who write redundant code, mix logic together with data, mix their HTML/CSS/JS as one thing, don't grasp a lot of design features, but understand general syntax and flow. How would you approach such a problem?
 
Tom
@Incognito give examples and open source a big maintainable project that reflects your points =)
 
@Tom I'm trying something different. I want to step into the shoes of a bad dev who feels things aren't important, show the code that they write, explain how they logically came up with "I'll just write funca, funcb, funcc funcd...", and simulate the feeling of all the problems they don't see, make them sweat it, and lead them into solutions so they never feel these problems ever again.
Basically, I want to brainwash people into writing better code.
 
HI all!
quick question, I'm trying to put some JQuery in my solution (ASP.NET MVC3 project) but my code doesn't seem to work.. however it Does in a jfiddle :s

do I have to add a reference to JQuery or have a library or something (jeh.. I'm kinda noobish at this ;p)
 
Tom
1:50 PM
@Incognito sounds good, but how can you do something that intensive with people when you are only giving a presentation?
 
-- It needs to create a "future pull" for something devs not only recognize as better, but they feel pain to write it the old way. It's not just about the technical "this is how you derp," but the psychological means by which I'm doing it. My largest concern is that I'm being too abusive in my text =/.
@Tom I've got a decent background in many fields I can draw on techniques from. I've been debating the Socratic method for instance. Basically, all the lessons from propaganda are useful here.
 
lmao @the conditioning Incognito btw :p
 
@KarelJanMisseghers I'm not kidding :P It's titled "so you want to write quality Javascript," slide 3 is "look what you did you little jerk!"
 
now that'd make lessons more intresting (Student myself)
 
Tom
@Incognito I believe the main reason people not use many standards is because 1) they seem too complex and 2) people don't know about them
 
1:53 PM
@Tom This is the power of the Socratic method
@KarelJanMisseghers Your code needs to include the jquery file.
Need to attend to some stuff, I'll be back later.
 
ahaa, gonna search that
<script src="@Url.Content("http://code.jquery.com/jquery-1.6.2.js") type="text/javascript"></script>
added this line to my code but that didn't help hmm..
 
2:24 PM
@KarelJanMisseghers Looks like you forgot to close a quote?
> <script src="@Url.Content("http://code.jquery.com/jquery-1.6.2.js")" type="text/javascript"></script>
Also, what's the deal with @Url.Content("")?
 
<script src=("http://code.jquery.com/jquery-1.6.2.js") type="text/javascript"></script> changed it do this now
JAY :D
deleted the '(' s and it's working now, I hate it how sometimes something doesn't work because of such a stupid error and you just keep looking over it
Thanks a lot, this really helped me out :p anyway I can accept this as an answer to one of my question?
 
@KarelJanMisseghers Post the question. One of us will post an answer. Then you can accept it.
Copy/paste the address in here
 
1
A: help Ajax slideUp / show in mvc3 project

ShankarSangoliWrap your code in $(function(){..} that way it will ensure that the element is available before it tries to access it. Also to show the element you can use slideDown which is the opposite of slideUp. There is an extra opening brace in your code remove it. You can try this. Working demo $(func...

@RyanKinal ^here's the question
 
@KarelJanMisseghers what is wrong with the answer posted?
 
2:39 PM
@KarelJanMisseghers Yeah, I'd just accept the answer that's already there. It may not have been the complete solution, but it definitely led you to the solution.
 
k, thansk anyway!
 
@KarelJanMisseghers ShankarSangoli seems to have put a lot of work in to helping you out. That's where the rep should go.
 
and it has been given ;D
 
:-)
 
RT @pbakaus: if you have an opinion about meta viewport and orientationchange, now is your chance to chime in: http://t.co/pPc8dmt
RT @silviapfeiffer: Chris Double just let us know that temporal media fragment URI support is now available in Firefox trunk wow! http:/ ...
RT @pbakaus: a packaging format for the web - please chime in: http://t.co/fyHXd6D
RT @GoogleCode: Seth Ladd blogs about New Game, the conference for HTML5 game developers, and how to avoid work distractions. http://t.c ...
RT @stucssplay: A drop panel menu with multiple configurations. Suitable for iPad etc. http://t.co/i7ZMGGz
0
Q: Load images after page load

ntechiI just heard somewhere that by using some javascript it is possible to load of a page after the entire page load completes, When I googled, I found LazyLoad, but it seems that latest browsers are not supporting it. My site has some images because of which sites becomes slow, is it possible to l...

RT @jtaby: If you missed it yesterday, I released a new jQuery plugin for creating and maintaining cross browser transforms http://t.co ...
RT @assaf: Blogged: why you absolutely should be using Sugar.js http://t.co/nqhbIQR
RT @jsgoodies: What came before web sockets?; an overview of the history of communicating in the web: http://js.gd/1yz
 
2:55 PM
Hi all. Anyone here have experience with using jQuery on a Android targeted mobile website?
 
@k4t434sis ask question
then we might be able to answer...
 
posted on August 26, 2011

Sonic is a small (~3k minified) JS “class” you can use to create custom loading animations. It works best with looping animations — i.e. a snake that’s trying to eat its own tail. Sonic uses the HTML5 <canvas> element/API. It works by drawing a shape (by default…

 
I'm having an issue with jQuery's .html() function. I'm inserting a set of options into a select tag with this function and it works on desktop browsers but not in Android's browser.
 
@KarelJanMisseghers Where did you find instructions to do this?
 
3:11 PM
I use jQuery.com and MDN as my main source of javascript/jQuery documentation.
 
+1 for MDN
 
I'm thinking it's a peculiarity with how Android implements that function, but I'm not quite sure how to make a workaround for it.
 
you could try innerHTML instead
 
@k4t434sis Doesn't android just run the same JS engine as chrome?
 
@k4t434sis .append()?
 
3:14 PM
yeah imo append is one of the better ways to add stuff in general via jquery
 
Right, changing the html() of something to add elements ends up presenting a lot of unnecessary issues.
 
But doesn't append add the content after the element? I need the content between two <select> tags.
 
appendTo(select)
 
appendTo might be a faster-- I think it does DOM work rather than just edit innerHTML.
 
3:18 PM
yeah I know there some jsperfs on it, I forget the results of them though.
 
Ah yes, thank you. For some reason I was thinking append added content after the element. That's what I'm looking for.
 
Explicit DOM node creation might be the best choice. Create your option elements and use appendChild.
 
That is definitely one of them
I think theres some that specifically target append as well to show performance
I know theres one for remove vs innerHTML =""
that one was interesting
they need a better way to see the jsperfs imo
 
3:23 PM
yeah looks like it
I wonder if they make any $$ off of jsperf
or how its funded rather
its a fantastic site, but is in need of a more user friendly design
 
@Loktar The design issues are basically moving boxes, it's visually nice, it's just hard to use when you try and scale the number of "things" on it.
For instance, there's a lot more perfs than originally, it's a pain to edit stuff quickly.
 
yeah I agree
 
It's visually nice, it's a usability pain.
> Every hour I spend working on jsPerf is an hour that I’m not billing for. If you find jsPerf useful, a small donation is a great way to show your appreciation. It will allow me to continue hosting, improving and updating jsPerf. You can donate via Pledgie if you want to appear on the donor’s list. Alternatively, you can go straight to PayPal:
 
heh isnt that most of our hobby projects :P
too bad he couldnt throw it on github or something, allow diff design forks
use the best one or something idk.
 
@Loktar Yep
 
3:34 PM
IE6 was released ten years ago today. http://t.co/VrC75xH
0
Q: How can I re factor this Javascript function to make it smaller

JustAnilI have this javascript function, which gets prices from a a table, adds them up, and outputs the total cost. I want to refactor this to make it as small as possible. function getTotalPrice(do_request) { console.log('Get total price'); var prices_array = new Array(); // Where our prices are hel...

 
10 years ago the pain began for web developers everywhere.
 
@Loktar Is it that day already?
 
Who knows another 5 and they might support border-radius
 
I cant believe IE6 is 10 so crazy
at least its finally lost most of its ground
@k4t434sis tmk IE9 does but im not 100% sure, I know it doesnt support CSS animations :(
 
The demon of eldritch is ponst thine fourth decade of seasons?
 
user1385191
3:38 PM
mmm I'm about to dig into Code Complete 2
 
@Loktar probably puts you in the same standpoint as their developers.
 
To be fair we don't know which timezone it'll be; I choose GMT
 
@YiJiang Redmond time.
 
user1385191
PST
 
@k4t434sis what do you mean?
 
3:40 PM
How bout swatch time?
 
Mistakes, y u so hard to get rid of?
 
I blame China
 
s.Kor surprisingly high as well.
 
True
 
Any thoughts on Adobe's new program called Muse ... the net has been buzzing?
 
3:45 PM
My real question is how many of those chinese UA strings are actually people with the browser, vs spam bots guised as MISE?
 
user1385191
Google asking me for my phone number when I log into youtube?
 
user1385191
yuck
 
@Incognito Oooh, good thought. I wonder how we would even find out?
 
user1385191
@tanktery Adobe's web products suck, ignore it
 
You are a developer ... I think right?
 
3:47 PM
Muse - Dreamweaver for the new web. Dreamweaver - Frontpage for the old web.
 
@RyanKinal They'll be the ones who's traffic is sniffing for PHPMyAdmin exploits on apache servers every day.
 
user1385191
I work with Flash, yes, but I'm referring to their HTML-related projects
 
@tanktery Adobe needs to die in a fire.
 
user1385191
their "swf to html" project uses jQuery
 
well adobe caters more to designers
 
user1385191
3:48 PM
and is a massive mess of comments
 
@tanktery Adobe caters to bothering the hell out of me at every turn.
 
lol
 
@tanktery Designers should design, developers should develop. It just so happens that in order to make a design into a website, development has to happen.
 
I CRINGE when seeing that.
I uninstalled the JVM and Adobe because they're just annoying.
 
lol
 
3:49 PM
look I am a web designer and know that DW writes code that I would not write the way it does so I get where you guys are coming from
 
I'm serious. The adobe update is ready to install every 3 hours-- FUUUU.
 
DW can be a pain
 
They should just change their logo to the troll-face.
 
user1385191
adobe updater sucks
 
user1385191
but the flash update program is money
 
user1385191
3:50 PM
runs as soon as you're logged in on windows
 
user1385191
installs in <= 30 seconds
 
DW is not just a pain-- it's something I oppose with all the fanaticism of a religious zealot.
 
user1385191
^^^
 
We hired some kid to write a simple SIMPLE web design, he ended up using wysiwyg. I wanted to throw the office out the window of the office.
Turns out you can't definistrate the same window without throwing a stack pointer exception.
I filed an issue ticket with the universe,.
 
user1385191
dw's design view is <p>&nbsp;</p> hell
 
user1385191
3:53 PM
it helps perpetuate the illusion that you need to wrap EVERY SINGLE LINE OF TEXT in a p tag
 
yeah DW design view is bad ... really bad
 
"Yo dawg, wanna move somes tuff? yo like, chick this, I got these uber 1337 non-breaking spaces, I'll just toss them in allover the fucking place. word up CASSSHHH MONEY!!!!" < This is what dreamweaver sounds like in real life.
 
lol I am an Espresso man myself ...
 
user1385191
I use &nbsp; all the time, but only in meaningful places
 
+1 Incognito
 
user1385191
3:55 PM
ie: <label>foo:&nbsp;</label>
 
Notepad++ all the way, if I wanted bloat I'd eat at McDonalds
 
no way the code hinting is way better in espresso than notepad ++
 
@MattMcDonald I've never really needed to do this, I like to line-up inputs with the force of a thousand OCDs.
 
user1385191
as do I
 
I never use code hinting, kinda annoys me.
 
3:56 PM
@k4t434sis Check out VIM and become 1337.
@tanktery I hate code hinting.
 
user1385191
set a defined width for labels, use text-align: right
 
Same thing with the auto completing brackets
I've considered Vim, but I need like a weekend to learn all the macros
 
@MattMcDonald Right-aligned text has bothered me in terms of readability. I like it when the next label drops in on the same spot. I'm a fan of the label ontop of the text box, then keep going down, never to the side.
 
user1385191
which is essentially a clickable legend
 
@k4t434sis Start slowly. You won't learn VIM by plowing through any tutorials, you'll learn by doing.
 
3:59 PM
well TX for the input guys
 

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