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12:23 AM
Is there a way to do a double relationship?
Lets say I have a table called Post, and a table called Content
a Post must have one and only one Content
but also a Content must have one and only one Post
gee, I just read the chat tittle, it seems like this is not the right plase to answer
 
 
10 hours later…
10:54 AM
@IvanCastellanos just post it as a question. Either it will get answered and marked as a duplicate of something you can go off and read.
 
 
4 hours later…
2:50 PM
@bluefeet thanks for directing me here.

We've currently got two dashboards Microsoft SQL Server: http://stackoverflow.com/documentation/sql-server and Transact-SQL: http://stackoverflow.com/documentation/tsql.

I'm of a strong opinion that they should either be merged, or there should be clear distinction between the content. If both dashboards exist, Transact-SQL should focus on the language, whilst Microsoft SQL Server focuses on the technology.
2
 
I personally think there shouldn't be 2 things to document. I'd like to merge/get rid of t-sql but that's not quite available.
If I was a new user of sql server I'd think I would look for sql server docs not t-sql
 
@bluefeet in hindsight, unlike other languages which have their own dashboards, Transact-SQL is a Microsoft extension and dependent on SQL Server, so my opinion on clear distinction between content has moved to merging these and as you say, focusing on Microsoft SQL Server dashboard content.
 
@JonathonOgden sybase also uses transact sql
though I still think that it shouldn't have its own doc
 
@Lamak of course! Thanks for the reminder. But, as you say, shouldn't have it's own dashboard.
Is there a way of suggesting the merger or deletion of dashboards? I briefly brought this up in documentation beta chatroom. Believe only @JonEricson and one other can do it?
 
@JonathonOgden we can't merge tags/dashboards....yet.
 
3:26 PM
There appears to be tags for sql-server-2008 and sql-server-2012.
please tell me we are merging them up into Microsoft SQL Server?
 
Once we have the ability to merge/delete tags we'll take care of that. They are definitely unneeded because they all roll up under SQL Server
If we need to distinguish between versions, then we can use the versioning inside of docs
 
@bluefeet Thanks
 
 
2 hours later…
5:05 PM
hi
 
hey @Phrancis
So to answer your question about the copy & paste, there are a few options
 
Has the option come up for SQL tag to be strictly about ANSI SQL standard things, i.e., not specific to any DBMS?
If it were up to me, I would possibly make a topic in SQL tag that links to other tags that are DBMS specific
 
@Phrancis That's part of the problem with the tag. I'd think SQL would be for ANSI SQL Standards that are would work on all platforms, but maybe that's just me
I think it will be too confusing to see an example with syntax that doesn't work on SQL Server if the syntax shown is MySQL
 
The thing is that I don't think any DBMS uses strictly ANSI SQL standards, they all have their own "flavors" of it and syntax
2
 
I think there are some things that can be in the SQL tag but I personally think most should exist in each platform tag
For example Except does not exist in every RDBMS so I don't think it should be in the SQL tag
 
5:12 PM
@Phrancis It's true there are vendor-specific extensions to ANSI SQL ("flavors" as you put it), but most providers if not all implement ANSI SQL standards. Makes sense to keep extensions separate from the standard in my humble opinion.
 
We're hoping to be able to move topics between tags soon, which will help with a lot of this.
 
Yeah that would help a lot
 
But like basic stuff like SELECT, INSERT, UPDATE are perfect for the SQL tag. I would help beginners learning how to do the basics which work on all platforms
2
Again, that's just my opinion which is why I created this room to discuss this stuff.
 
@bluefeet You've hit the nail on the head there.
 
I agree
Is there an actual reference of ANSI SQL standards that could be used as a guide to separate "general" things from vendor-specific things?
19
A: ANSI SQL Manual

bobinceHere's the ‘Second Informal Review Draft’ of SQL:1992, which seems to have been accurate enough for everything I've looked up. 1992 covers most of the stuff routinely used across DBMSs.

Didn't realize ANSI SQL's last standards were in 1992
 
5:21 PM
That's pretty much what I found.
hi @GregBray
 
@Phrancis Dates back to 1986 being the first specification. 92, 99, 03, 06, 08 and 11 since,
 
howdy! Saw your note about this room... been looking thru the MSSQL changes and its nice to have a place to organize
 
@GregBray Welcome Greg :)
 
@GregBray Yeah, when I got back from vacation on Monday I got concerned about the sql tag docs getting too messy and thought it'd be better to try and organize some discussions
 
5:27 PM
I'm aware @Phrancis :(
 
So it seems a lot of the topics under SQL would be better off under Transact-SQL tag?
 
@Phrancis I'm crying inside looking at that.
 
yeah... they are a bit better than C# / Java in some places, but difficult since there are so many tags
 
I've been actively monitoring it
@Phrancis I think they belong under SQL Server
Maybe @GregBray has an opinion on the TSQL and SQL Server split
 
agreed... I think merging is coming very soon
 
5:28 PM
@bluefeet That would exclude Sybase though, which uses Transact-SQL as well
 
@Phrancis but sybase mostly has it's own syntax for things so that should fall inside their tag
 
SQL Server has decent traction, so MSSQL seems good fit there. And Sybase could use that tag
 
My worry is too many databases in a single doc tag will be very confusing to users
sybase has been proposed - stackoverflow.com/documentation/sybase just needs committers
 
What about the issue of too many tags for a single database?
 
@Phrancis you mean topics?
 
5:30 PM
156
Q: Documentation Update, July 25th

Kevin MontroseAs part of the Documentation Beta, we’re going to be doing a series of meta posts (and blog posts in all likelihood) with what we’ve learned, and what we’re planning to change accordingly. These posts will normally be about once a week, but since we just launched last Thursday we’ve already got ...

tag merges are being worked on
 
Like, do we need MS SQL 2005, 2008, 2008-R2, 2012, 2014
 
@bluefeet Very "kitchen sink" if all were under the umbrella of one dashboard.
 
@Phrancis that's what versioning is for
 
those will all be merged into the Microsoft SQL Tag and use versioning
 
@GregBray Hmm OK that sounds like a decent solution
 
5:31 PM
see the versions at the bottom @Phrancis stackoverflow.com/documentation/sql-server/236/…
when a topic is added and examples, you can specific what version is applies to
here is an example with versioning - stackoverflow.com/documentation/sql-server/353/…
 
side note I really like that "Using the xyz Table" stuff... where it links to the sql example databases topic
 
I agree
 
Yeah that is nice
 
The only thing I'm concerned about in the example tables are the links to sqlfiddle, considering it's not super reliable but that's minor.
 
sqlfiddle is pretty flaky, better than nothing though
SQL is not the easiest thing to make a REPL-like thing for, since you need an actual database server for each version
 
5:38 PM
Its getting better... even Microsoft is looking at docker containers for SQL Server blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/sqlserverstorageengine/2016/03/21/…
 
So if I wanted to take a topic I wrote under SQL tag, that really belongs in MS SQL, what should I do?
Copying it into the other tag is one thing, but it also would need deleted from the original tag
 
copy & paste is the only option right now
 
What about deletion?
 
@Phrancis should be an option when you select edit on the topic
 
Oh the little garbage bin I see, ok thanks
 
5:46 PM
yup, I had to ask as well.
 
5:58 PM
Whenever I selected to delete the topic, it came up with a whole bunch of different DBMS/tags at the bottom
 
that deletes one example in the topic, not the whole topic
 
Right, ok, that's what I intended
 
@Phrancis the databases are due to the versions here - stackoverflow.com/documentation/sql/184/…
see the confusion of having everything in a single sql doc - all those versions
 
Yeah I totally see that now
Not sure if the topic has come up yet, but is there are reason (other than dumb luck) that SQL Server has versioned tags (2005, 2008, 2008-R2, etc.) while other DBMS don't?
 
probably because those tags exist on SO and people just figured docs for each version are needed
 
6:11 PM
I attempted to clean-up and improve the SQL tag by removing that "Hello World" example and submitting a brief overview instead, thoughts?
Not sure if it's good or not, but I thought that Hello World topic was just not very useful at all
 
I'll have a look in a bit. But you can also ask in the main Docs chatroom to see what others think.
 
6:26 PM
I requested to delete the whole Date & Time topic from SQL tag, I copied the examples to MS SQL (I created the topic originally)
I don't want it to seem like there is a documentation voting ring, is it preferable to let community handle changes or to post here? (if they are significant changes)
 
there is a generic review room at chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/118023/documentation-review which you can post too, but here is also fine
 
feel free to post it in here, if we get to it, great. If not, the community can get to it
 
Okay
This is the SQL Date & Time deletion review: stackoverflow.com/documentation/proposed/changes/61241 and I consolidated the examples in MS SQL here: stackoverflow.com/documentation/proposed/changes/61236
 
7:32 PM
Alright, the sql server docs now include the tags 2012, 2008, 2005, r2, 2014
 
7:53 PM
@bluefeet Did the topics/examples all get merged/combined somehow?
 
@Phrancis well there weren't really any active topics in any of them, so we didn't have to deal with that.
there is some voodoo going on behind the scenes that I'm not aware of
4
A: Documentation should actively reject pledge to "versioned" tags

Kevin MontroseWe now have a way to alias tags for the purposes of documentation. This is currently restricted to SO developers and CoGro team members (it pretty ugly, and kind of dangerous) - so ask on meta if you need an alias. We're going through and cleaning up existing stuff right now. When a tag is ali...

 
"CoGro team members" ...?
That is a good thing, though, very good
 
Ohhh the CMs, I see
 
8:08 PM
@Phrancis me, shog, Tim Post, others
 
Gotcha
Why is this not rendering?
<!-- if version [gte 2008R2] -->
some content here
<!-- end version if -->
 
8:31 PM
@Phrancis I believe it has to match a version here. That means it would have to be <!-- if version [gte Sql Server 2008 R2] -->
 
@bluefeet Good call, that worked
 
 
2 hours later…
10:59 PM
Is it good database design to have, say a field with computed values?

for example. Lets say we have a `sellers` table and a `reviews` table. Here are the constraints.

1. A seller can have many reviews.
2. Reviews of a seller is calculated by going selecting all the reviews on the reviews table, and computing an average.
3. A screen on your iPhone must show the review of a Seller.

Is it good design to have on the `Sellers` table a field called `averageReview`?

When the iPhone Seller screen is shown,
 
@JTAppleCalendarforiOSSwift Not really, unless the field is accessed often enough to justify its own column, including the cost of updating it each time there is a change. Computing the average (and most aggregates) is simple enough to do in query code to where it's needless to make a special column for it
It depends on a lot of factors, though. Also, this room is meant for the SQL parts of Stack Overflow Documentation, if you have questions about SQL itself you might check this room on the network

 SQL Helpline

SQL is Weird sometimes.... bit.ly/F5-Now
I'm there all the time so you are welcome to ping me
 
11:14 PM
thanks much man. much helpful @Phrancis
 
My pleasure
 

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