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12:01 AM
also deprecating this awful callable tuple syntax - [$obj, 'method']() - would be awesome
 
@marcio deprecating?
 
why?
 
That callable syntax is actually awesome on multiple levels
 
because we have $obj->{$y}(...$args)
 
@marcio yeah... no.
I'd rather use [$a, $b](...$args) than $a->{$b}(...$args)
simpler syntax and much more flexible too
 
12:03 AM
@Ocramius it's not simpler and I don't see how it's more flexible
 
since I can store the callable in a single var, and make it a string, an object implementing __invoke, an array
 
i wouldn't deprecate it but i'd use []() as well
 
I just gave you the answer
Treating everything as callable upfront gives you an incredible level of flexibility
 
blahrg, I think it should just be dropped
 
it's highly required for decoupling needs
Well, then provide a good reason to do that
because I provided you a good reason to not do that :P
 
12:05 AM
somehow, I fail to see your reason as good
 
I'd actually want static method references too at some point
 
@Worf go to sleep you are drunk
 
@marcio you probably need a refresh on "decoupling" ;-)
if you deprecate that syntax, provide a way to define an object method callback instead, and it'll be fine
 
@Ocramius as in
FooBar::&baz // returns ['FooBar', 'baz']
$obj::&baz // returns [$obj, 'baz']
?
 
something like that, yes
 
12:07 AM
humm, nope... making an array a callable is definitely not an example of simple language design and definitely not a required feature to achieve "decoupling"
 
the relevant part is storing it in a var, much like a function pointer
well, I have hundreds of cases where it helped in decoupling a callback :-P
internal code, framework code, libs I'm writing, event handlers, micro-frameworks
it's just such a simple and intuitive syntax/concept
the only thing that is missing is the explicitness that @Worf made in an example
(and eventual type safety)
 
I see, but what you need is not [](), you need just a function pointer
 
iirc groovy has something like that, or python maybe?
 
@marcio right, and I think 3 chars to achieve that is quite awesome :-P
[,], to be precise
 
still a bad idea from a language design perspective, you need an array with two itens to have a "callable"
 
12:12 AM
Yes, it is much like a "magic type", but the only way to make it actually "safe" is providing an alternate syntax
until then, deprecating it is just bullshit talk
 
no way, it's just awful and that's why PHP isn't a better language :P it all boils down to "my code will break on a major release"
anyway, back to the error message
 
I still think it is awesome
it's actually one of the rare cases when a data structure is also code within the lang :-P
wish it was more like that
(Lisp-ish, if you want to think that way)
 
I call it inconsistency and duck tape design that should never have been introduced in the first place
at least we agree that deprecating it and adding something better and explicit in the first place is doable
 
It's the feature that I'm currently using most together with ...
 
@Worf I looked at the vm code and it's easy to unify the error messages
 
12:18 AM
cool
 
but there is one problem, somebody will complain this is a BC break xD
 
wat lol
 
because somebody might be abusing error messages as features
so I'm not going to waste time pull requesting this
 
time to kill their software on purpose then :D
 
there is another issue about improving exception messages and there is a complain that this will break loggers and the civilization etc
 
12:20 AM
@marcio doubt it - this is stuff that goes to stderr and it's a fatal anyway
 
do people actually do things like that? holy crap
 
I'd rather say: why isn't this one of the new "exceptions in the engine" thing?
or is it?
 
I see a HANDLE_EXCEPTION() on the vm code, so it's probably an exception now
not catchable :(
@NikiC should this be catchable? 3v4l.org/S1S2l
 
12:54 AM
but wait, anonymous classes in master now? :o
 
1:23 AM
@Ocramius are you in the UK? And if so, what are you doing tomorrow?
s/today.
 
@Danack yes, I'm around today. Tomorrow will be paperwork and slides writing, but we can catch up if you want :-)
 
ah cool.
 
yeah, aware of that, but I already booked all my flights till july
:-P
@Danack beers after 5 PM or so? Maybe food too :-)
 
@Ocramius Yeah sounds cool. Any preference where? the Wellington is closed for refurbishment ('bout damn time).
 
@Danack I'd totally go back to the spitfire
 
1:49 AM
Morning
 
 
1 hour later…
3:07 AM
So, we have several opcodes for calling things: ZEND_DO_ICALL, ZEND_DO_UCALL, ZEND_DO_FCALL, and ZEND_DO_FCALL_BY_NAME. Am I missing any?
/cc @bwoebi @NikiC @JoeWatkins
Also, how do these compare with INIT ones like ZEND_INIT_STATIC_METHOD_CALL and ZEND_INIT_DYNAMIC_CALL?
I'm trying to get an overview of how callable things are done at the opcode level.
 
@LeviMorrison the INIT ones reflect on the functions itself, not the call AFAIK
 
3:30 AM
s/not the call/not the individual calls
 
 
2 hours later…
5:28 AM
morning
 
moin
 
> 6,666 REPUTATION
:D
 
@Leri also in top 6%
sounds like I made it up ...
 
This will live in our memories forever. ^
 
Anonymous
5:54 AM
makes sense
 
6:05 AM
anyone have idea about echosing api?
i need to integrate echosing api with yii2
 
Anonymous
echosing?
 
sry echo sign
 
never heard of it
 
Anonymous
one does not simply echo an api
 
6:08 AM
or sing
 
k jst say how to setup https in localhost.
i need to check https callbacks in localhost
 
we really don't know @Sathish
 
@Sathish to localhost? A callback? I see some thought mistake there :-)
 
Anonymous
var_dump($isThisHttps);
 
callback url must be in https for this api
so can i setup callback url like this localhost/callbackurl
 
6:15 AM
@LeviMorrison as long as you don't consider an include/eval a call… yes.
 
way to early on a monday morning for me to think up anything but especially answers to complicated questions ...
 
@JoeWatkins can you help me?
 
Anonymous
yeah that callback thing is buging me to
 
this is first time i'm working with api.
 
@Sathish I really have no idea, @Ocramius seems to have some idea ... but don't ping random people, ask a well formed question to get a well formed response ...
 
6:19 AM
sure @JoeWatkins
 
Anonymous
@Sathish what's a callback url?
 
Anonymous
what does it do?
 
it will return some status when your action is success of failed.
 
oh I see the problem marcus saw ... https and localhost is a strange combination of things to want
 
Anonymous
so check the headers.. what's the problem
 
6:24 AM
so is localhost and callback ...
 
header??
how can i check my header?
 
hello guys
I have a variable which behaves differently when I use it for strpos
if I var_dump the variable and use the printed string in strpos, it works as expected
then, I looked for bin2hex() of variable and var_dumped variable
I see a difference
why so
 
6:40 AM
hi my wordpress site goes to blank page after posting a image comment
 
That sucks, have you tried turning it off and on again?
 
@Epodax are you asking to me?
 
Yes,
 
yeah i tried it
text comment is working
i'm using satollo.net/plugins/comment-image plugin for posting image comment
@Epodax
 
hi can I find some help
 
6:49 AM
its my site page
try to post comment
then you can easily understand my issue
 
@BoopathiRajan The most likely issue is a php error, which is why I would suggest you turn error reporting on, and check your error logs. It'll tell you what is going on
 
okay sure
 
@BoopathiRajan And it's also needed if you want any sort of help :) A blank page after a form submit could be caused by atleast a million different things.
 
yeah i know
@Epodax
 
@marcio it is catchable - try BaseException or EngineException
 
Anonymous
7:45 AM
@NikiC can I build php7 from master? just to check out the new features.
 
Anonymous
If not, I have no idea, where to get php7 from.
 
@samaYo yes, master
 
MOgoring
 
Anyone use PHPStorm with github?
 
I use both but not specifically together
 
7:50 AM
Maybe this is a Q about git workflow then... someone has a pull request. I want to work on it, make commits to it etc, before I consider merging it
How do I work on his PR?
 
on the PR, you should have a git command to import the branch locally and work on it
or simply git remote add foobar https://github.com/foobar/project; git fetch foobar; git checkout -b foobar/pr-branch-name
 
Stack Overflow awesomeness. Just got my chat badge.
 
Good monornornonornornornornornronronronrnoronronronronronrnonronornonronomnomnoming roomies
 
Someone's in a good mood this morning ;-)
@FlorianMargaine And to get back, it's just remote add <original>, fetch and checkout, right?
 
@Jimbo rather, remote add <fork>
@Jimbo but this info should be in the PR page on github
 
7:55 AM
@tommydevs welcome to chat
 
@FlorianMargaine The git remote add <foobar>, is the foobar whatever I want to call it? The info isn't on the page I don't think
 
@Jimbo oh you mean the PR isn't open? I meant on the PR page, literally, if you have push access on the repo
@Jimbo yes, foobar is w/e you want to call it. I usually pick the username of the guy.
 
@FlorianMargaine Yeah, I own the repo, he's made a PR to mine, but I want to work on his before it's merged
 
hold on
don't you have this info?
 
@FlorianMargaine Yeah I saw that page, but unless I'm blind, I can't see the commands you said before to start working on it
 
8:02 AM
github creates a new branch in your repo for the PR
so you don't even have to add his remote
 
@FlorianMargaine Ahh, I had to click the tiny Command Line text at the bottom of the PR to see that info. So I only need to do: git checkout -b glenscott-master master and then a pull. Noice, thanks :-)
So effectively, I've created a new branch, and pull his code into it, so that's all local to me now.
But in order to push back to his branch, I'll still need to add the remote right?
 
you can't push back to his branch
you don't have push access on his repo
 
So mine would be... a .. PR to his branch then :-P
(a PR for his PR)
 
but you just want to eventually merge in your repo no?
in your current setup, his commits are in your branch
 
@FlorianMargaine Yeah, but I'd like to do it with github so he can review changes etc
 
8:05 AM
so attribution is there
ah
then yeah, PR for his PR :D
no need to add his remote though
 
Yay, PRception. I've learned something new about OS then.
 
@Jimbo supposedly, you should be able to create the PR from here: github.com/J7mbo/twitter-api-php/compare
(you should click the "compare across forks" link)
 
@FlorianMargaine Not seen that before, but no glenscott fork exists for that
 
@Jimbo github sucks then
 
Yep, still... I didn't even know it had those things lol, thanks for the heads up
 
8:13 AM
by putting your new branch in there of course (after you'll push it on your repo)
 
TIL slow worms are lizards, are a protected species in the UK, and can live more than 50 years in captivity
 
So what's up?
 
found him this morning ... dying (freezing cold, and in the open) ... I was gonna keep him (my son wanted too, and I got a tank or two kicking about), but you're not allowed in the UK ... I put him in a black plastic bag in the sun for 20 minutes and he warmed right up, now he's hunting under my shed ...
 
8:20 AM
@JoeWatkins Is it a snake or a worm?
 
@FlorianMargaine I'm going to be committing and pushing multiple times probably before I merge as I'll need to be hooking into travis continuous integration so that the tests I write are run for me. Instead of waiting for him to accept each PR to his PR, what would you recommend?
 
ears and eyelids and burrowing make him a legless lizard @Epodax
 
@JoeWatkins Why's it illegal?
 
@JoeWatkins Where the hell are the ears and eyelids?!
 
mornings
 
8:22 AM
well, it's illegal to trade or buy them, not technically illegal to keep one you found, I guess ...
 
@Gordon thank you, I can create rooms now
 
@Epodax eyelids in the normal place, and ears only sometimes visible on some adults (of a certain size) ...
 
I'm in a lecture, someone just told rails is a really secure platform, lol.
 
for sure
 
@Jimbo it's a protected species
 
8:25 AM
Well, you learn something new everyday.
 
@Jimbo uh... he'd need to set up travis on his repo. The simplest would be to create a PR on your own repo for your branch, and have him review it
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I was thinking just about that. If one group of animals kill another group of animals to extinction, it is fine, if people do it, it is not ok, because we try to control everything
 
@FlorianMargaine Yeah probably. So push to my own branch remotely for him to review. If I do that, does he keep all this work / accreditation?
 
@Jimbo yes. You'll be able to check it anyway, the list of commits in your PR will include his commits
 
this is unbelievable ...
is that a real thing do we think ?
 
8:30 AM
Joe, it's not like Disney and other cartoons aren't adding such dirty references that only grown-ups can understand
 
yeah that's true, but this is more than tongue-in-cheek references though ...
 
It's quite possible that the people that created the book made it as a fun book for adults or smth
 
Hey - is there a way to get a dump of everything in the internals mailing list?
 
thanks @JoeWatkins i know little about UK..
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum well it's nntp, so you could write something to do that ...
 
8:33 AM
Woah, nntp :D
I can scrape the website but I don't wanna be mean
 
@JoeWatkins lol
 
yeah, because it's the late 80's ...
 
posted on May 04, 2015 by kbironneau

/* by dahapls */

 
@BenjaminGruenbaum nntp seems nicer than scraping, but it is pretty terrible ... if scraping is easier then maybe use markmail or one of those other reader things that must be setup for big traffic anyway ...
 
8:34 AM
@JoeWatkins how bad would it be if I scrape it one message per second?
Oh, there's a tool called nget
I wish there was just a data dump
 
I never heard of nget, looks like it does the job I guess ...
one message a second is fine, not noticeable I would hope ...
 
How do I even connect to it via nntp - source just says:
3 define('NNTP_HOST', 'localhost');
I guess I'll scrape it
 
nntp server is news.php.net iirc
 
I remember trying to do something with nntp before, the server we use is very temperamental, it only allows one connection at a time, drops out a lot ... scraping is probably going to be better ...
 
8:39 AM
@ziGi :)
 
I think the server is actually a perl script from the late 90's, but don't quote me on it ...
(looking at the source jogged my memory, I been down this road, turn around, go the other way asap)
 
@DaveRandom might be able to shed some light. IIRC he dicked around with PHP's mailinglist thningy
 
8:54 AM
There are other NNTP servers that archive internals, such as gmane
Someone should burn the news.php.net nntp server to the ground and create one that works =D
 
here any one have better knowledge about Yii2?
 
better than what?
 
i need help in yii2
 
@PeeHaa I just want a dump and I wanna play nice.
 
in google also cant get relevant result for yii2
 
9:01 AM
Anything you can help with would be appreciated - the code that scrapes it is like 10 LoC but I'd really rather avoid it
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Perhaps ask nicely on the list?
 
You guys in this room are like a third of the list anyway :D
 
The part that matters at least ;)
 
Haha, sure :)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum we'll accept if it's 10 lines of php
 
9:05 AM
@FlorianMargaine I can do it in 10 lines of PHP, I know PHP you know... I'll do it with file_get_contents just to be offensive though :)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum you know wordpress, not php
 
Do you people document your public API's @BenjaminGruenbaum, @FlorianMargaine ? I don't think I have seen it very often in jabbascript have I?
 
@PeeHaa it's not really related to jabbascript
 
@PeeHaa of course, we're not idiots.
 
You're not? :D
 
9:06 AM
@FlorianMargaine I know PHP, I just don't really like it :D
 
@PeeHaa many repos I've seen use this kind of documentation: github.com/substack/node-browserify#methods
 
Also, lots of projects have .d.ts files (type info)
 
Interesting. /me is looking
 
Whatever you do do not release undocumented public APIs - in JS people will rape them. Instead, always provide documentation with usage examples and proper types and so on.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum you don't really know php if you don't love it; Stockholm's syndrome has been proven times and times again.
 
9:09 AM
Will JS have proper method signatures at some point?
 
Lol, I just got the T_JIZZ_ARROW joke wow that took way too long.
 
And default values?
@BenjaminGruenbaum :P
 
@PeeHaa default values work now (I use babeljs in my code), typing is optional through a transform (I use Flowtype sometimes).
 
cool
 
The nice part is that you get perfectly readable ES5 in the end, but you can use all the reasonable features you normally can't run in browsers.
 
9:16 AM
Hi guys, Can anyone help me to identify the framework, that the drupal 7 is written on
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I was thinking about it but I thought it'd be too vulgar to say it, and then PeeHaa decided to drop the bomb
@nu6A drupal is the framework, the language is PHP
 
Anonymous
i think he means d8
 
I'm confused, why does php only have 266 contributors on GH?
 
cause they are a private club and don't let members in just like that
:D
Btw for anyone who hasn't heard of this, check it -> thephpleague.com
 
./\
 
Anonymous
9:24 AM
we have heard of it, since antiquity.
 
good
 
/me hoovers keyboard
 
I went to a meetup and there were people that didn't know about it and I was a bit amazed
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum gh only counts members of github as contributors
 
How can I map contributors to internals mailing list users?
 
9:30 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum git shortlog -esn
or git shortlog -nes
 
is there any online services availabe that provides script to run continuously as a background process without interruption?
 
9:45 AM
@YuvaRaj free?
 
yes @FlorianMargaine
 
I knew it
 
may i know?
 
Morning
 
i'm just thinking to create a bot, but it needs to be run continuously as a background process. That's why i'm searching.
 
9:49 AM
nohup process.php & and a while loop with a sleep at the end.
 
@PeeHaa Thanks for yesterday.
 
#!/bin/bash
function f() {
    sleep "$1"
    echo "$1"
}
while [ -n "$1" ]
do
    f "$1" &
    shift
done
wait
sleep sort ^
 
@Jimbo It's working in pc, but in web, i'm searching a service that do run this task continously
 
Okay guys if you are using a MVC framework and you wish to adopt a DI patten within some of your models / controllers is this something that should be done /can?
 
@StephenWolfe np
 
9:53 AM
I was thinking of making helper classes
and autoloading them
 
@StephenWolfe they have nothing in common so it shouldn't be a problem
@StephenWolfe use DIC
 
@ziGi I did read up on them yesterday.
@ziGi wasnt entirely sure how I could adot it into the framework I am using although I did see zend and symfony both had it set up already.
 
@StephenWolfe what basically happens is that the DIC should create all objects used in your request and inject them in the controller
@StephenWolfe what framework are you using?
 
Simply mvc
this is the article I found krasimirtsonev.com/blog/article/…
 
ah yeah, that bulgarian guy that can't speak english
 
9:57 AM
@PeeHaa with what we did yesterday with the DI what other design patten could I add to that?
 
@StephenWolfe don't read that article, he's making a service locator
not a DI
and uses a lot of static vars
 
oh dam
 
I am sending data via jquery ajax to php server JSON.stringify(myarray) how do i extract the element in my array in php server.
 
@jemz are you posting it?
 
@StephenWolfe check this here for the DI -> github.com/PatrickLouys/no-framework-tutorial/blob/master/…
and in general read the article if you haven't
 
10:01 AM
@stephen yes
 
@jemz can you not have it post to a php script that collected the POST and then deals with it?
@ziGi I think thats a little beyond me for today.
 
@StephenWolfe I can give you a simpler explanation then if you wish?
 
@ziGi yes please.
 
I'll make a room for us (so we can cuddle there, he he)
 
@ziGi I have to go out in a 10 mins
 
10:04 AM
no probs
 
why doesn't images aren't showing in rss feed? like if there's a gallery exists, it shows only gallery name and meta data. Not about the image link. why?
 
hey, i have a small website with few friends going for and back on it, for convenience I am debugging directly online so some exceptions' message are displayed here and there. the problem is it also displays the stack where the exception occured from up to the first call. how can I tell php not to display the stack, i just want my custom exception's message to be displayed on the website for security reason then
 
@발렌텐 Try to add some code which checks if it is you in order to display or not to display those errors
 
@발렌텐 (Disable display_errors and) use set_error_handler / set_exception_handler to create your own error / exception handlers. This way you can "debug on live" without ever displaying errors on the site (log them to disk or email them, for example) or only display them if certain criteria are matched (presence of a cookie or user comes from a specific IP for example)
 
preferably, you would have a dev environment :)
 
10:09 AM
@발렌텐 set display_errors to off and just use logs
 
@발렌텐 Catch the excpeptions and echo it
 
but logs aren't as fancy as html :O
 
catch (Exception $e) { echo $e->getMessage(); }
 
@PeeHaa I like to add custom exceptions throughout my code but catching them just for to display, i am not a big fan of this
 
O.o
Well good luck with what you are trying o/
 
10:12 AM
@AllenJB thanks, just what i was looking for
 
10:25 AM
@jem
@jemz fyi be careful about replies - i just got a notification, when i assume you were replying to @StephenWolfe
 
Anonymous
TIL: people do still use facebook these days.
 
@NikiC Eih… new idea. Turn imported by-variable variables into IS_VAR. Install them in execute context init. Use IS_REFERENCE for read context and IS_INDIRECT for potential write contexts. This should be fine with what's happening currently in VM. Also, it doesn't need any modifications to var fetching functions.
[If I understood IS_VAR correctly…]
 
10:58 AM
@samaYo
@samaYo do you mean regular users, or someone in the industry?
 
@Stephen lol hi
 
@StephenWolfe hi!
 
Too many Stephens!
 
@StephenWolfe i have a question you may appreciate the context of, regarding our first name. what part of the world are you from?
 
11:01 AM
do you find people mispronounce your name (because it's not spelt with a V) ?
native english speakers i mean
 
No its normally anyone that is like greek
or not native english
I find people that know a Stefan
will call me the wrong name
 
Anonymous
@Stephen regular users. Facebook seems kida too old and boring to me.
 
@samaYo wrong stephen
 
@StephenWolfe yeah i used to get the same thing. Now I hear Thai people (who barely speak english in the first place) try to pronounce it, and I miss the days of "stephen" vs "stefan" vs "steven"
 
@Stephen what do you get now?
@Stephen some times its easier to tell people I am Steve, infact no one calls me stephen apart from debt collectors and PPI
 
11:05 AM
@samaYo i "closed" (as much as you really can) my account many years ago (6? 7? I don't remember) and all my non-tech friends said I was crazy. I know these days most of them use it a lot less than they ever used to. I think it's largely devolved into a replacement for email/messaging for some people, because it probably has better discoverability than either of those
 
@NikiC I think that should work, without any CV hack. Should be only filling IS_VAR with symtable indirects or references. That should already cover every case in VM. So, seems I can leave this untouched, which is probably great for performance. Only tiny issue is that a) INDIRECT and REFERENCE are not that often on fast path and b) we need to copy into the zval slots after execute_data. But I think that's really the best we can get without a full refactor of how the VM fetches its variables…
 
@Stephen I barley use FB, pretty much only to contact people.
 
@StephenWolfe well Thai people (who haven't learnt english from a very young age) have trouble pronouncing several english character sounds, so for people that know me (e.g. thai in-laws) it becomes sort of "stee-fen", for those just reading it off a sheet and perhaps calling out my name (e.g. gov department, hospital or whatever) it becomes "Mr. Steepen" (even with a passport in from of them to reference, they get confused by the order of a western name, particularly if you have a middle name
 
@NikiC nah… references are freed in case of IS_VAR… so… what about putting IS_REFERENCE into IS_CV and IS_INDIRECT into IS_VAR… mhm.
[as IS_INDIRECT is never freed]
 
@Stephen lol I have had stepen before.
 
Anonymous
11:15 AM
next it evolves to stupid :p
 
morning all
 
@samaYo FB evolves to stupid, or the pronunciation of stephen evolves to stupid? :P
 
11:54 AM
- write fetches => compile as IS_VAR [fill VARs with IS_INDIRECT to original symtable at call frame creation time]
- read fetches => compile as IS_CV [fill CVs with IS_REFERENCE to original symtable]
- ensure that there are no double IS_INDIRECTs when accessing symtable, respectively IS_INDIRECTs to parent symtable are not removed when reattaching
- ensure that, when variables are created at run-time (e.g. varvars, extract, ...), they are created in parent symtable and an IS_INDIRECT ---[or IS_REFERENCE???]--- is created in current symtable.
^ @NikiC that should be all necessary
 

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